Providing Hints in Log

[+northerndm]

So I'm wondering what the etiquette to providing hints in a log. I'm a newbie to geocaching and need some advice.

 

I have used logs to help my search. For example, in one log, I read a comment about a magnetic and I realized I was looking for a magnetic nano. This helped me focus on metal areas and I quickly located the cache.

 

So I'm wondering how to provide hints. In particular, I'm thinking about areas where there are too many sites (ie: the wonderful spruce trees ). Is it OK to point people into the right direction (ie look at the southern tree) because I know that I would like that kind of hint when I'm looking at an area with multiple hosts.

 

Or should I just say nothing?

 

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[+Walts Hunting]

It is pretty much up,to the discretion of the CO. Any log with spoilers can be deleted but general ones that don't specifically give it away appear to be ignored by most COs.

 

Personally I never do it.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Walts Hunting

[+Fridge01]

Write about your search without giving too much away. Mention that it was hard because there were so many trees to search but don't tell which one it was on, it's up to the CO to decide how much to reveal. The exception is if there is wrong information, go ahead and reveal if the coordinates are off or if the spruce trees are actually pine trees.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

If the CO wanted to give more hints, they would. As a CO I would and have deleted logs that give too much away and pictures that show the container and hiding spot.

I also send a nice email explaining my reasons and offer new cachers suggestions.

 

Those of us that put time and thought into hides also put thought into just how much of a hint we want to give.

Te hunt is the best part of caching for me.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Really, it's up to the CO to provide a hint if they want to. Sometimes it does help to read the logs, but 99% of the time, any spoilers are unintentional. It seems a bit weird to intentionally put a hint in your log. The only time I might do this is if the CO is no longer around and the coordinates are really bad or it's a needle in the haystack and alot of people are having trouble.

[+dprovan]

If you have to ask, then you shouldn't give hints in your logs. Once you get lots more experience, you may come to understand when, why, and how to slip in little hints without blowing the hide or otherwise annoying people.

[+OZ2CPU]

it is very normal to start reading previous logs when a cache is hard to find,

some times it is possible to sneak out some kind of help and then locate the cache,

other times it just confuse even more.

Tell about your experiance online, dont DIRECTLY reveal stuff in clear text.

[+Isonzo Karst]

"Found after a vigorous search" this is a hint. It means that the cache was likely well off the coords (assuming lower difficulty hide).

 

"Found well south of coords" - yeah, it means what it says... ;-) I'd use this only on a cache of lower difficulty, with good signal at GZ, not under heavy tree cover or anywhere with possible signal bounce (urban or forested canyons).

 

Remember, if you found it, the coords got you there. If you didn't, you don't know.

 

And so on. I'd sure not indicate, "found on big oak on south side of grove", even if coords were on the north side of the grove, and hint was "small maple". I might email the cache owner on that. If I notice an inactive owner, I might mention, "not hidden per hint", and leave it at that.

[+niraD]

When I write a Find log, I try to tell the story in a way that the CO and other finders will understand, without giving away much to those who haven't found it yet. Or at least, without giving away much that isn't already in the cache description, or that isn't obvious to anyone who arrives at GZ.

 

But as Isonzo Karst indicated, all sorts of things can be used as hints. For example:

 

"I dropped it, and finding it the second time took a lot longer."

- It's probably a nano-cache.

 

"This camouflage is a lot easier to spot when you've seen it before."

- It's sold commercially, it's easy to create, and/or it's just popular with local cache owners. It may even have a name/acronym that appears in one or more geocaching glossaries.

 

"I spotted it as I approached GZ."

- It's hidden in plain sight.

 

"I found it after expanding my search radius."

- The coordinates may be a bit soft.

 

"I returned to GZ yet again and finally spotted it."

- The coordinates are good, but the cache is well hidden.

[+K13]

Why would you as a finder feel it necessary to include a hint? Any hint you give could lower the difficulty rating as set by the cache owner.

 

As owner of a few caches, I would NOT want a finder to leave hints to the find. I have actually encrypted logs and e-mailed finders to amend their logs for including hints.

[+dprovan]

Why would you as a finder feel it necessary to include a hint?

Well, let's see. I drop hints if the description or hint given are wrong, or if I believe something about the environment has changed such that the hide is no longer as intended, or if the actual difficulty seems way higher than the rating.

 

These things tend to come up more often with newbie hides and hides where the CO has dropped out.

[+Team Microdot]

When I write a Find log, I try to tell the story in a way that the CO and other finders will understand, without giving away much to those who haven't found it yet. Or at least, without giving away much that isn't already in the cache description, or that isn't obvious to anyone who arrives at GZ.

 

But as Isonzo Karst indicated, all sorts of things can be used as hints. For example:

 

"I dropped it, and finding it the second time took a lot longer."

- It's probably a nano-cache.

 

"This camouflage is a lot easier to spot when you've seen it before."

- It's sold commercially, it's easy to create, and/or it's just popular with local cache owners. It may even have a name/acronym that appears in one or more geocaching glossaries.

 

"I spotted it as I approached GZ."

- It's hidden in plain sight.

 

"I found it after expanding my search radius."

- The coordinates may be a bit soft.

 

"I returned to GZ yet again and finally spotted it."

- The coordinates are good, but the cache is well hidden.

 

^^ This

 

Remember too that hints provided by the CO are typically ROT13 encrypted - to prevent people seeing the hint accidentally while looking at the rest of the cache page.

 

In keeping with this layer of 'protection' from accidentally seeing the hint, If I refer to an item described in the hint in my log, I describe it as the hint item rather than by it's proper name.

 

For example - if the hint says base of tree, I wouldn't write in my log that I searched at the bases of ten trees before I found the cache - but I might say there were lots of places to search, that I found the cache in the tenth place I looked or something along the lines of what looked like the right hint item, wasn't - rather than what looked like the right tree, wasn't.

 

I try to strike the right balance between writing an interesting log with enough detail to make sense, but not so much detail that it gives away too much.

[+u1bd2005]

I've only ever posted one comment that may be considered a slight hint, I don't think it actually was but to be on the safe side I just ticked the "encrypt log entry" option...

 

[Then typed most of my log like this]Hint Here[Then the rest of the log like this]

 

That way it encrypts the part this isn't in the square brackets, I only did it to be on the safe side, I don't actually think it would have helped with the find anyway, I just posted which path I took that I found the easiest, as there were two possible paths.

 

But if you found it based on the information available before you posted your log, then as long as you've popped it back in the same place you shouldn't have any need for providing any more hints. The CO has clearly provided enough for the find.

[+Scratch Ankle]

I left a hint of sorts at one cache that the ghost did not come out possibly because someone had placed a memorial wreath on the path and maybe this gave him peace. I did not mention that this was about where you had to leave the path in order to get to the cache. The CO made it clear you could not rely on coordinates to find GZ due to the trees and surrounding hills. He sure wasn't kidding and the high winds the day I was there didn't help any either. He did a very good job of explaining where to leave the path (and he may have placed the memorial himself although he didn't mention it nor had anyone else). He also described the site of the cache and while you had to look some there was really just the one place it could be.

 

I like evil hints. One cache (archived before I could find) was a reflector with a magnet on the back attached to a guardrail by a drop off to a creek. I knew what the cache was due to spoilers (one cacher even placed video on Utube). The hint was a comment about the "reflection in the creek". My kind of hint -- you don't know it's a hint until you find out what the cache is so you can recognize it as a hint.

 

I can't imagine leaving a blatant hint in a log even if it was in the wrong location. I found one that I thought was not where it should be but I replaced it where I found it and simply stated in the log that it was not in what I felt was the correct location based on information the CO gave and then contacted the CO. Wonder of wonders, I wasn't as dumb as I look -- surprised my wife to no end. It was in the wrong location. Not only that, where I thought it should be was where it actually should have been which really surprised my wife. The CO did reply that it was in the wrong location on the log and then replaced it in the correct location a couple weeks later. If the CO had failed to respond (apparently a pretty common occurrence from reading the forum) I don't think I would have considered giving a hint in a follow up log since I did note it was probably out of place but it was findable without a hint as to where it would be. If the CO doesn't maintain the cache, DNF and NA's will eventually archive it. In theory anyway.

[+springcat]

 

 

I can't imagine leaving a blatant hint in a log even if it was in the wrong location. I found one that I thought was not where it should be but I replaced it where I found it and simply stated in the log that it was not in what I felt was the correct location based on information the CO gave and then contacted the CO. Wonder of wonders, I wasn't as dumb as I look -- surprised my wife to no end. It was in the wrong location. Not only that, where I thought it should be was where it actually should have been which really surprised my wife. The CO did reply that it was in the wrong location on the log and then replaced it in the correct location a couple weeks later. If the CO had failed to respond (apparently a pretty common occurrence from reading the forum) I don't think I would have considered giving a hint in a follow up log since I did note it was probably out of place but it was findable without a hint as to where it would be. If the CO doesn't maintain the cache, DNF and NA's will eventually archive it. In theory anyway.

 

I have left a blatant hint in one of my logs - the cache was a tribute cache to a local soldier who died. There was a nice memorial stone and plaque and a little garden around it at the base of one our ski areas. Many people had logged DNF's on this 1.5 difficulty cache and also mentioned in their logs they felt disrespectful disturbing the garden area. My geocaching friend and I put blatant hints in the logs so that this memorial site wouldn't have to be disturbed by people looking under rocks and plants. We directed them directly to where it was hidden so that they could see the story and pictures of the soldier that gave his life.

One of the only times I've done it, but felt it justified.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

 

I have left a blatant hint in one of my logs - the cache was a tribute cache to a local soldier who died. There was a nice memorial stone and plaque and a little garden around it at the base of one our ski areas. Many people had logged DNF's on this 1.5 difficulty cache and also mentioned in their logs they felt disrespectful disturbing the garden area. My geocaching friend and I put blatant hints in the logs so that this memorial site wouldn't have to be disturbed by people looking under rocks and plants. We directed them directly to where it was hidden so that they could see the story and pictures of the soldier that gave his life.

One of the only times I've done it, but felt it justified.

 

Providing an unintended hint in a log is forgivable; we all read logs looking for just that, but to intentionally subvert the CO's work is disrespectful.

 

As well-intentioned as you might have been, you were wrong in my opinion. I would have sent a msg to the CO strongly urging him or her to adjust the hint BECAUSE...., but the hint is his or hers to supply, not yours.

[+Mick McPhee]

I encrypt the logs that give too much information about my caches. I also encrypt logs that I feel disrespect my cache placement or content.

[+geodarts]

 

I have left a blatant hint in one of my logs - the cache was a tribute cache to a local soldier who died. There was a nice memorial stone and plaque and a little garden around it at the base of one our ski areas. Many people had logged DNF's on this 1.5 difficulty cache and also mentioned in their logs they felt disrespectful disturbing the garden area. My geocaching friend and I put blatant hints in the logs so that this memorial site wouldn't have to be disturbed by people looking under rocks and plants. We directed them directly to where it was hidden so that they could see the story and pictures of the soldier that gave his life.

One of the only times I've done it, but felt it justified.

 

Providing an unintended hint in a log is forgivable; we all read logs looking for just that, but to intentionally subvert the CO's work is disrespectful.

 

As well-intentioned as you might have been, you were wrong in my opinion. I would have sent a msg to the CO strongly urging him or her to adjust the hint BECAUSE...., but the hint is his or hers to supply, not yours.

 

I don't see the example given as intentionally subverting a CO's work. Given the disturbance to the garden area in a 1.5 difficulty hide in a memorial area, perhaps something further needed to be said. I don't know what the description said, how active the CO might have been, or what was said in the log, but it might have saved the CO' s work if the land owner became concerned. In any event, future finders are warned that there might be spoilers in the log and the CO can either encrypt a log or ask that it be edited. I have only taken action about a log once or twice.

[+suchanana]

northerndm, in my opinion - just say nothing containing a hint - let the next cachers experience searching for the hide on their own terms - don't take the fun out of their game...

no bursting balloons with hints falling out like candy from a pinata ...oooh, wait a minute, that could be unique cache container...

 

let me know when you'll be publishing your first cache hide, i'll be glad to c'mon over and write up some great hints logs to post on your page, giving away the location... walk in the CO's shoes, then we'll talk hints and spoilers...

[+MartyBartfast]

 

Well, let's see. I drop hints if the description or hint given are wrong, or if I believe something about the environment has changed such that the hide is no longer as intended, or if the actual difficulty seems way higher than the rating.

 

These things tend to come up more often with newbie hides and hides where the CO has dropped out.

 

In such circumstances I think a mail to the CO suggesting they change the details is more appropriate. If the CO is nolonger around then it should be archived. Any hint written in a log is eventually going to drop so far down the list of logs that it will not be seen by new finders.

 

I don't think it's up to finders to try and leave explicit hints in their logs, although sometimes telling your own story may give a little more help "I could only just reach it standing on tip-toes", "I had to get on my hands and knees to reach it" etc.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

 

I have left a blatant hint in one of my logs - the cache was a tribute cache to a local soldier who died. There was a nice memorial stone and plaque and a little garden around it at the base of one our ski areas. Many people had logged DNF's on this 1.5 difficulty cache and also mentioned in their logs they felt disrespectful disturbing the garden area. My geocaching friend and I put blatant hints in the logs so that this memorial site wouldn't have to be disturbed by people looking under rocks and plants. We directed them directly to where it was hidden so that they could see the story and pictures of the soldier that gave his life.

One of the only times I've done it, but felt it justified.

 

Providing an unintended hint in a log is forgivable; we all read logs looking for just that, but to intentionally subvert the CO's work is disrespectful.

 

As well-intentioned as you might have been, you were wrong in my opinion. I would have sent a msg to the CO strongly urging him or her to adjust the hint BECAUSE...., but the hint is his or hers to supply, not yours.

 

I don't see the example given as intentionally subverting a CO's work. Given the disturbance to the garden area in a 1.5 difficulty hide in a memorial area, perhaps something further needed to be said. I don't know what the description said, how active the CO might have been, or what was said in the log, but it might have saved the CO' s work if the land owner became concerned. In any event, future finders are warned that there might be spoilers in the log and the CO can either encrypt a log or ask that it be edited. I have only taken action about a log once or twice.

 

In this case, the poster is absolutely saying that they didn't think the CO did a good enough job, and they 'improved' the cache page.

 

Would it be out of line to keep going back and posting NOTE logs reminding people about the new hint as the original gets pushed down the page?

 

Pull the emotional 'memorial' aspect out of this issue. This is why 'agenda' caches aren't allowed.

 

Any problems between the CO and a land manager are just that - between the CO and the land manager. If there's a problem with people messing up an area, the CO should take care of it or as MartyBartfast said, it should be archived.

[+dprovan]

In such circumstances I think a mail to the CO suggesting they change the details is more appropriate.

I have a responsibility to future seekers, as well, so I do not want to keep my information secret. Naturally if I know the CO will be proactive, in some cases I'll take it up with them privately.

 

If the CO is nolonger around then it should be archived.

Well, if the CO's no longer around and there's a problem, then it should be archived, but I see no reason not to help out the next seeker even if that's the case. And more to the point, all the arguments about a hint offending the CO are off the table once we've agreed there's a real problem with the cache bad enough for it to be archived.

 

Any hint written in a log is eventually going to drop so far down the list of logs that it will not be seen by new finders.

I guess this is a regional thing. In my neck of the woods, if a hint in a log turns out to be useful and reasonable, then it will be echoed in other logs. "I found dprovan's hint about a change in altitude to be very helpful."

 

I don't think it's up to finders to try and leave explicit hints in their logs...

Who's talking about explicit hints. And someone else used the term "spoilers". Those are different issues. We're talking about real hints here, I think.

 

...although sometimes telling your own story may give a little more help "I could only just reach it standing on tip-toes", "I had to get on my hands and knees to reach it" etc.

Naturally that's one way to make a hint subtle, and that's almost always the approach I use for expressing the hints I leave.

[+Harry Dolphin]

If there are hints to be given, that is the bailiwick of the cache owner. If s/he wants to add hints that's his/her option. I've seen some pretty blatant spoilers listed here: "I had to stand on my tiptoes" for example. If he CO wanted you to know that it is up high, s/he would have mentioned that.

There are some cachers who delight in leaving subtle hints in their logs. (Or not so subtle.) (I've seen it on some of my mystery caches...) If the CO wanted those hints listed, s/he would have listed them. Adding them to one's log is a deliberate 'spoiler'.

Correcting bad coords, on the other fin, is not a spoiler. The cache should be at he coords listed. If they are 45' off (whether the CO had bad readings, or was being nasty) the coords should be corrected.

So. No. Do not list hints in your log. That spoils the CO's hide.