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All you have to do is sign the log sheet


Ma & Pa
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825e067e-418b-46fd-a214-95e163fa89f3.jpg

 

A cache is hidden on top of a pole on a country road. Special climbing equipment or a long ladder is needed to reach the cache. The CO says that seeing the cache is not enough. In order to claim the cache you must climb the pole to claim the find. Any cacher present when someone gets the cache can also claim the find. As a result, there is often a meeting of cachers at the cache site when someone climbs the pole.

 

Recently a newer cacher obtains the cache without climbing the pole but destroys the cache in the process. His log states

 

got it down without climbing the pole, but needs to be replaced. its in same cords but lower elevation

 

Other cachers who showed up later were able to sign the log sheet and claimed the cache. The CO was upset and archived the cache. He was upset at the person who destroyed his cache and that others signed the cache in its new location. He did not delete any logs. A number of logs and notes were added to the cache page by all involved.

 

I know that you can claim a cache if you sign it and there cannot be restrictions in that regard. But I think this cache is a good one for a discussion about a number things such as placing a cache back where you found it, and logging a cache that is no longer in its original location

 

Here is the original cache

 

http://coord.info/GC3092R

 

Here is the replacement cache that someone has placed in the same location. Note the restrictions that the CO has placed

 

http://coord.info/GC4HM4X

 

.

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I don't understand why anybody who didn't make the climb would want to log a find in the first place.

 

That is another good question. Maybe it is seen as a group find.

 

We have a great caching community in the Moncton NB area and caching events attract friends from much further. Caching friends often get together to go caching together and do series together. If there is a particularly difficult cache, cachers often go out as a group to try and find it (this often occurs after our monthly caching breakfast). In those situations, whoever finds the cache signs for everyone.

 

We were present twice when the cache was signed. We were helping at an introduction to caching event when KD Cachers asked us to go help him be FTF for this cache. A few months later, about 25 people showed up to watch Heavy Metals climb up to get it, and we were there for that.

 

 

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Edited by Ma & Pa
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I don't understand why anybody who didn't make the climb would want to log a find in the first place.

Fizzy challenge.

 

I never thought of that and I don't think anyone else thought of it. There is a Fizzy challenge cache in the area. Only two cachers logged the challenge at some time after logging the POLE VAULT cache. Neither one needed the latter cache to qualify for the challenge.

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I kind of got why the CO was so angry, this wasn't somebody accidentally dropping a cache, he (somehow) knocked a cache off a 40 foot high pole knowing he couldn't rehide properly. And then was very arrogant in the comments.

 

It's a shame he archived but I can see why somebody would do that in a fit of anger.

 

I think on the 2nd where everyone was encouraged to climb as high as they could is good, personally I wouldn't claim without the climb.

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I don't understand how someone could place a cache like that, and not realize that what happened, would happen eventually. :unsure:

And then to archive it in a fit because of that? :rolleyes:

 

I'm planning to place (another) similar cache, but the pole is concrete and not so easily climbable!

If and when I do place the cache, I will need to consider what will be required for maintenance, including putting the container back when somebody knocks it off somehow.

 

Zero respect to the cacher who brought it down with out a plan to put it back, but the CO is almost equally pathetic. :bad:

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I think it says something that the people who were (apparently) prepared to climb the cache to get the smiley, took the smiley after finding the cache on the ground but would not climb the pole to put it back. If they did so they would have deserved the T5 smiley. And one ground-finder chastised the person who knocked it down to get the T5 smiley. "...to knock a cache down with flagrant disregard is simply wrong. Shame, shame shame! I am logging this cache as I found it in good faith." Seems all around like a bad behavior by the CO and finders who did not find it or place it back by climbing to accomplish the T5 rating. Yet another reason grids/stats/challenges are bad for the game - it creates so much anxiety and drama.

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I think it says something that the people who were (apparently) prepared to climb the cache to get the smiley, took the smiley after finding the cache on the ground but would not climb the pole to put it back.

Ah but they did exactly what has been preached in the forums.... They put it back EXACTLY as THEY found it.

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I don't understand why anybody who didn't make the climb would want to log a find in the first place.

There used to be a cache atop a huge boulder in North Jersey (GCRDSA).

Some used ladders to access, some free climbed. CJ really wanted to get it, but she wasn't doing climbing yet, so we rope anchored a second story web fire escape ladder. :laughing:

- Similar to Ma & Pa, at an event in the park, one climbed the boulder and all in the group signed the log (he pitched it down, they pitched it back).

Shortly after the end of ALRs, some of those older folks who always seem to cache in groups, would never get to log a find of a 4-terrain if he didn't.

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I don't understand why anybody who didn't make the climb would want to log a find in the first place.

Fizzy challenge.

 

How does that change anything? If you failed to meet the challenge of the cache, how could you honestly say you fulfilled that box in the grid?

The problem with challenges are that they are as inviting as cache with challenge to retrieve or sign the log for people to find ways around.

 

Because TPTB decided there would be no more ALRs, cache owners have little choice but to accept logs of people who sign the physical log or to accept a persons find record as proof of completing a challenge.

 

It may be that some people have the integrity of briansnat to realize what a high terrain cache means (either for retrieving a cache or for claiming a challenge). However there is no lack of geocachers who will either stick to the letter of guidelines or follow whatever the common practice is in their community. Group finds are pretty common around here.

 

Geocaching is supposed to be a light fun sport. People get disappointed or frustrated if they find a cache but then find they have solve a puzzle or do some physical activity they don't feel comfortable with. Some will try anything to sign the log - including forcing a puzzle box open or knocking a cache down from a high perch. If you hide a cache like this, expect someone to do this. If it bothers you that much that people do this, maybe this isn't the right type of cache for you to own.

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People get disappointed or frustrated if they find a cache but then find they have solve a puzzle or do some physical activity they don't feel comfortable with. Some will try anything to sign the log - including forcing a puzzle box open or knocking a cache down from a high perch. If you hide a cache like this, expect someone to do this. If it bothers you that much that people do this, maybe this isn't the right type of cache for you to own.

 

...or who smash the container with a rock to get inside because he didn't realize it was a screw on lid and he couldn't pry it open (happened to me.)

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I don't understand why anybody who didn't make the climb would want to log a find in the first place.

 

+1

 

I was floored at this: got it down without climbing the pole, but needs to be replaced. its in same cords but lower elevation

 

Yikes.

 

I've been lucky enough to see some super tricky aerial hides here and I would not dismantle them and claim a find. I would be mortified if I broke one. Luckily I'm too short to be in danger of doing that :)

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Some will try anything to sign the log - including forcing a puzzle box open or knocking a cache down from a high perch. If you hide a cache like this, expect someone to do this. If it bothers you that much that people do this, maybe this isn't the right type of cache for you to own.

I've rejected a bunch of creative cache ideas due to the scorched earth policy of many Geocachers who would utterly destroy a pristine nature area, trash property, ruin cache containers, just to make the find. Yes, it bothers me that much.

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I don't understand why anybody who didn't make the climb would want to log a find in the first place.

Fizzy challenge.

 

How does that change anything? If you failed to meet the challenge of the cache, how could you honestly say you fulfilled that box in the grid?

You been around long enough to understand that challenges is the big part of geocaching. There are a number of caches out there that would be very lonely if there was no challenges to work on.

 

I came back from Texas and I been working on getting many counties I can in Texas and yes, its a big challenge and very likely it will take me 20 years to do it. There is one county in Texas that only got three caches and two of them get found all the time. About once a week and its in the middle of nowhere. :blink: Many of those people that found it are working on the Texas county challenge.

 

It does the same on those rare fizzy challenge blocks but the fizzy is harder as a whole because not everybody can do it all so that does invite more "cheating". Let just have fun and be part of the community and not be so tight up how the cache should be found.

Edited by SwineFlew
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I don't understand how someone could place a cache like that, and not realize that what happened, would happen eventually. :unsure:

And then to archive it in a fit because of that? :rolleyes:

 

I'm planning to place (another) similar cache, but the pole is concrete and not so easily climbable!

If and when I do place the cache, I will need to consider what will be required for maintenance, including putting the container back when somebody knocks it off somehow.

 

Zero respect to the cacher who brought it down with out a plan to put it back, but the CO is almost equally pathetic. :bad:

 

I don't see the CO as being pathetic at all. He certainly had a right to be upset. On the same note, i don't think he should have been so quick on the draw to archive it either. No doubt that maintenance for a cache like that will need to be performed more often but it shouldn't be because of disrespectful bumholes. <_<

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I don't understand how someone could place a cache like that, and not realize that what happened, would happen eventually. :unsure:

And then to archive it in a fit because of that? :rolleyes:

 

I'm planning to place (another) similar cache, but the pole is concrete and not so easily climbable!

If and when I do place the cache, I will need to consider what will be required for maintenance, including putting the container back when somebody knocks it off somehow.

 

Zero respect to the cacher who brought it down with out a plan to put it back, but the CO is almost equally pathetic. :bad:

 

I don't see the CO as being pathetic at all. He certainly had a right to be upset. On the same note, i don't think he should have been so quick on the draw to archive it either. No doubt that maintenance for a cache like that will need to be performed more often but it shouldn't be because of disrespectful Removed potty language. <_<

I see the Co as being pathetic. I feel the cache wasnt tied up good enough and thats why it fell off the pole. The CO was going around blaming one someone else because his cache fell off the pole. The blame goes straight to the CO and nobody else. Sure, if I see a cache and I shake the pole and it fell down, I would sign it anyway. The cache will fell down anyway after a wind storm. There was a cache I know that I signed because I found it on the ground 30 feet away due to the wind blowing off the tree. No, I am not going to put it back up. Not my job. I let the cache right where I found it and post the coordinates for it.

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I don't understand why anybody who didn't make the climb would want to log a find in the first place.

 

I don't understand it either. I saw the cache page for a scuba cache where a whole crowd of people stood there waiting for the logook while only 1 or 2 people were in the water. I don't get it. I can see them wanting to watch, but to sign the logbook when you haven't found the cache yourself, I don't get it. Kind of like emailing your buddy for the coordinates to a difficult puzzle cache. Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

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I don't understand why anybody who didn't make the climb would want to log a find in the first place.

Fizzy challenge.

 

How does that change anything? If you failed to meet the challenge of the cache, how could you honestly say you fulfilled that box in the grid?

 

You can't. You are lying to yourself and everybody around you. It's kind of sad. :huh:

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I don't understand how someone could place a cache like that, and not realize that what happened, would happen eventually. :unsure:

And then to archive it in a fit because of that? :rolleyes:

 

I'm planning to place (another) similar cache, but the pole is concrete and not so easily climbable!

If and when I do place the cache, I will need to consider what will be required for maintenance, including putting the container back when somebody knocks it off somehow.

 

Zero respect to the cacher who brought it down with out a plan to put it back, but the CO is almost equally pathetic. :bad:

 

I don't see the CO as being pathetic at all. He certainly had a right to be upset. On the same note, i don't think he should have been so quick on the draw to archive it either. No doubt that maintenance for a cache like that will need to be performed more often but it shouldn't be because of disrespectful Removed potty language. <_<

I see the Co as being pathetic. I feel the cache wasnt tied up good enough and thats why it fell off the pole. The CO was going around blaming one someone else because his cache fell off the pole. The blame goes straight to the CO and nobody else. Sure, if I see a cache and I shake the pole and it fell down, I would sign it anyway. The cache will fell down anyway after a wind storm. There was a cache I know that I signed because I found it on the ground 30 feet away due to the wind blowing off the tree. No, I am not going to put it back up. Not my job. I let the cache right where I found it and post the coordinates for it.

 

I missed the part where it was stated that the cache fell off the pole. Where did you see or read that? Here's Mitch's log, and i quote:

 

got it down without climbing the pole, but needs to be replaced. its in same cords but lower elevation
.

 

The cache hadn't fallen. Sounds like he knocked it down somehow.

 

And i don't agree with you when you say that if you see a cache and shake the pole to get it, that you aren't responsible for putting it back.

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I got also a few hard to get caches, and yes it happen people get it down, sign it, and leave it on the ground,

and others "find" it too on the ground and sign it..

the rules are clear : they signed it, so they can log it as found online.

nothing I as CO can do,

I go fix it, and then I say in my performed maintenence log :

the last 4 finders should come now, and sign it again, to be able to feel they really found it.

If they do this or not, is not my problem, they only tricked them self to a higher D/T found at less work and risk =

less fun, actually, no fun at all, for them..

but offcourse also a bit for me too, since I created this cache to educate and to entertain people.

 

a propper way to FIND a cache, involves also to put it back at correct D/T level again,

if this is not possible by mistake, ok fine, then say it in your log !!

CO will show up and remove the cache or fix it fast if it matters to him..

if finding the cache was performed using on porpose wrong or lack of equipment

so put it back is not possible, the seeker show VERY bad and unfriendly geocaching style..

Edited by OZ2CPU
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they only tricked them self to a higher D/T found at less work and risk =

less fun, actually, no fun at all, for them..

but offcourse also a bit for me too, since I created this cache to educate and to entertain people.

 

While I do not log caches as found which I cannot reach myself, I do not agree with your statement.

If a cache is placed 1.5m up a tree which has originally been placed at 3.5m, it might end up as fun for me

to reach it while the experience with the 3.5m cache would be 100% negative for me - I would go home and be

very frustrated about myself.

 

As the risk is concerned, my goal is to minimize the risk for injuries during geocaching - I suffer sufficiently from

injuries that happened outside of geocaching. I do not consider risk as a component that increased the fun for me.

 

People have very different abilities. What will be a lot of work to some, will be trivial to others. It would not help

me to invest a week or more in a tree climbing cache - I'm not suited for those. I can solve some puzzle caches that require others

many hours however in less than a minute. The work concept does not make sense at all with respect to geocaching.

 

What I expect however is that everyone who feels that every logger of a climbing cache should do the climb him/herself,

should apply the same sort of reasoning to puzzle caches as well. There are way more cachers who think that it is ok to not solve a puzzle

than not to climb and let others in a group do the work.

 

Cezanne

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I think it says something that the people who were (apparently) prepared to climb the cache to get the smiley, took the smiley after finding the cache on the ground but would not climb the pole to put it back.

 

Except there's not necessarily any way of knowing if the pole is still safe to climb. If you didn't read all the logs before going out you wouldn't know if it had fallen out because an animal disturbed it (a nesting bird might need to be respected and left alone while a passing squirrel might not), whether it fell as a result of wind or hail or whatever else, whether someone dropped it and didn't put it back at the top, or anything else. So you put it back as you found it. For all people know it could have been a liar's cache.

 

I agree with the previous poster that anyone who thought about such a cache for very long would realise that it would be dislodged sooner or later.

 

If they did so they would have deserved the T5 smiley. And one ground-finder chastised the person who knocked it down to get the T5 smiley. "...to knock a cache down with flagrant disregard is simply wrong. Shame, shame shame! I am logging this cache as I found it in good faith." Seems all around like a bad behavior by the CO and finders who did not find it or place it back by climbing to accomplish the T5 rating. Yet another reason grids/stats/challenges are bad for the game - it creates so much anxiety and drama.

 

Challenges based on things that can so easily be cheated do seem to encourage cheating. I remember a while back there was a spate of events with curious D/T combinations, where you did nothing more than walk into a pub and order a beer to log "attended" on a D3.5/T4.5 event cache. I suppose it helped some people fill the more obscure parts of the D/T grid.

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Seems like it would be easy enough to secure it in such as way that wind or animals (or fun spoilers) wouldn't knock it off, but those who make the actual climb could grab it. Fasten the container, maybe, but just allow the lid to open for accessing the log sheet. Problem solved. I still think the CO should have just done maintenance like he's supposed to instead of just giving up on it after one guy spoils it.

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Here is some additional info

 

*I always assumed the cache was screwed to the top of the pole because I do not recall anyone actually holding the container in their hand.

 

*There are no electrical wires attached to this pole.

 

*This is a dead end rural road with no houses on it.

 

*Usually there is a number of feet along each side of a road that does not belong to the property owner, so it is possible that the post is on public property.

 

*I believe that the cache may not have been placed by the CO, but by critter431 who is mentioned on the cache page.

 

*This road and nearby roads are a popular destination for geocachers because of the large number of quality caches placed by critter431. Cachers come from far and wide to do these caches. Critter's caches have earned a large number of favorites as can be seen from this list:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?lat=45.958833&lng=-64.404483

 

.

Edited by Ma & Pa
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I see the Co as being pathetic. I feel the cache wasnt tied up good enough and thats why it fell off the pole. The CO was going around blaming one someone else because his cache fell off the pole. The blame goes straight to the CO and nobody else.

 

I love it when people demonstrate their true colors.

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*I believe that the cache may not have been placed by the CO, but by critter431 who is mentioned on the cache page.

.

 

"Huge thanks to critter431 for his help with making this dream come true. "

 

So what I'm understanding is the cache owner did not put the cache at the top of the pole. (Kind of like a person who puts out a challenge cache that they do not qualify for). Did the cache owner have a plan for maintaining this cache? Or was archival the maintenance plan? If so, it's hard to be sympathetic if even the CO can't/won't make the climb.

 

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Here is some additional info

 

*I always assumed the cache was screwed to the top of the pole because I do not recall anyone actually holding the container in their hand.

 

*There are no electrical wires attached to this pole.

 

*This is a dead end rural road with no houses on it.

 

*Usually there is a number of feet along each side of a road that does not belong to the property owner, so it is possible that the post is on public property.

 

*I believe that the cache may not have been placed by the CO, but by critter431 who is mentioned on the cache page.

 

*This road and nearby roads are a popular destination for geocachers because of the large number of quality caches placed by critter431. Cachers come from far and wide to do these caches. Critter's caches have earned a large number of favorites as can be seen from this list:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?lat=45.958833&lng=-64.404483

 

.

 

Looking at the one photo that was submitted by the guy who used a bucket,, it appears to be screwed down to the top of the pole. At least it used to be. <_<

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So knocking a cache down with no means to replace it, then blaming the CO for archiving it in lieu of not properly maintaining it when it's left on the ground after someone with no means to properly obtain and replace it knocks it off is totally acceptable?

 

Fixed...and absolutely. Cache owners are expected to do proper maintenance on a cache, which includes: replacing wet, damaged or missing logs, cleaning filthy cache containers, replacing damaged or missing cache containers AND resetting cache containers that have been moved from their original spot. The CO, instead of performing maintenance, basically performed the caching equivalent of taking one's ball and going home.

 

Of course the person that knocked it over was a spoiler and rude about it to boot, but the answer was pretty simple: go to the cache you placed and put it back where it belongs. There...problem solved.

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Fixed...and absolutely. Cache owners are expected to do proper maintenance on a cache, which includes: replacing wet, damaged or missing logs, cleaning filthy cache containers, replacing damaged or missing cache containers AND resetting cache containers that have been moved from their original spot. The CO, instead of performing maintenance, basically performed the caching equivalent of taking one's ball and going home.

 

Of course the person that knocked it over was a spoiler and rude about it to boot, but the answer was pretty simple: go to the cache you placed and put it back where it belongs. There...problem solved.

 

Yes, the CO has a responsibility to maintain the cache. But a cacher has a responsibility to replace the cache as well. If they know prior to retrieving it that there is no way to replace it, they shouldn't go after it. I wouldn't knock a cache down with no means of replacing it anymore than I would grab a 1 difficulty then drop it on the ground and walk away, expecting the owner to run out and replace it.

 

the answer was pretty simple: go to the cache you placed and put it back where it belongs. There...problem solved.

 

And if you can't or don't want to maintain it anymore, archive it. There...Problem solved.

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Fixed...and absolutely. Cache owners are expected to do proper maintenance on a cache, which includes: replacing wet, damaged or missing logs, cleaning filthy cache containers, replacing damaged or missing cache containers AND resetting cache containers that have been moved from their original spot. The CO, instead of performing maintenance, basically performed the caching equivalent of taking one's ball and going home.

 

Of course the person that knocked it over was a spoiler and rude about it to boot, but the answer was pretty simple: go to the cache you placed and put it back where it belongs. There...problem solved.

 

Yes, the CO has a responsibility to maintain the cache. But a cacher has a responsibility to replace the cache as well. If they know prior to retrieving it that there is no way to replace it, they shouldn't go after it. I wouldn't knock a cache down with no means of replacing it anymore than I would grab a 1 difficulty then drop it on the ground and walk away, expecting the owner to run out and replace it.

 

the answer was pretty simple: go to the cache you placed and put it back where it belongs. There...problem solved.

 

And if you can't or don't want to maintain it anymore, archive it. There...Problem solved.

 

I think there's a big difference between a T1 cache and a T5 cache. Of course one would not expect a cache owner to immediately run out to replace an LPC that someone thoughtlessly dropped on the ground...but we have to make an assumption about this case. The owner put it up there or knows someone who did. The decision to archive it came after it was knocked down, thus we can assume the owner just had a little archive-tantrum rather than enlisting help to get it replaced on its perch. You put in a T5 cache, you take on some added responsibility for maintaining it, in my opinion. Heck, otherwise I could toss a container off the edge of the Grand Canyon and, when people find it and tell me it's shattered and needs fixing, I could just archive it and throw a new one over the edge...lather, rinse, repeat...

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I think there's a big difference between a T1 cache and a T5 cache. You put in a T5 cache, you take on some added responsibility for maintaining it, in my opinion.

 

T1 caches probably require more maintenance than T5's. Especially if people actually retrieve, then replace, the T5's properly and don't just knock them down then leave them where they fall.

 

I just can't really blame the CO for archiving it. They're a jerk because someone completely violates the spirit of the cache and then wants them to clean up the mess? Yeah, it would have been nice if they just replaced it. Yes, maybe they had a tantrum, but at the end of the day no one owes anybody a cache.

 

Heck, otherwise I could toss a container off the edge of the Grand Canyon and, when people find it and tell me it's shattered and needs fixing, I could just archive it and throw a new one over the edge...lather, rinse, repeat...

 

You are speaking as a CO there, but what if the people finding them kept chucking them over the ledge? How many times would you replace it before you archived it? Probably more than once like this owner, sure. But after a few times I think most people would say it wasn't worth the effort.

 

Fortunately, I think this is a rare case. I think what bothers me is the notion of going after one when you have absolutely no intention of replacing it. The sad fact is that sometimes all it takes is one person acting poorly to ruin something for everyone else. Personally I wouldn't want to be that guy or encourage that kind of thing. That's all I'm saying.

Edited by Vandyvan
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A friend of mine has just made all of his caches PMO for this very issue. He found his caches not replaced in their hiding spots, just out in the open on the ground or put back willy nilly. He found that the people not replacing them are newer NON premium members. The person who didn't replace this cache appears to be non premium as well.

I'm sure this will follow with the whole PMO vs NON PMO but perhaps it's something to consider on a placement such as this cache.

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I think there's a big difference between a T1 cache and a T5 cache. You put in a T5 cache, you take on some added responsibility for maintaining it, in my opinion.

 

T1 caches probably require more maintenance than T5's. Especially if people actually retrieve, then replace, the T5's properly and don't just knock them down then leave them where they fall.

 

I just can't really blame the CO for archiving it. They're a jerk because someone completely violates the spirit of the cache and then wants them to clean up the mess? Yeah, it would have been nice if they just replaced it. Yes, maybe they had a tantrum, but at the end of the day no one owes anybody a cache.

 

Heck, otherwise I could toss a container off the edge of the Grand Canyon and, when people find it and tell me it's shattered and needs fixing, I could just archive it and throw a new one over the edge...lather, rinse, repeat...

 

You are speaking as a CO there, but what if the people finding them kept chucking them over the ledge? How many times would you replace it before you archived it? Probably more than once like this owner, sure. But after a few times I think most people would say it wasn't worth the effort.

 

Fortunately, I think this is a rare case. I think what bothers me is the notion of going after one when you have absolutely no intention of replacing it. The sad fact is that sometimes all it takes is one person acting poorly to ruin something for everyone else. Personally I wouldn't want to be that guy or encourage that kind of thing. That's all I'm saying.

 

The cacher very well may have intended on replacing it. Perhaps he tried to use a long pole with a hook to grab it and did not know it was screwed in. Allowing finds by people who show up and throw a party below without helping at all, then blaming someone for actually trying is ridiculous.

 

Considering that it was placed on a utility pole without the knowledge of the utility company who owns it, they very well could remove it also, especially if the pole was defaced with an attachment method. It very well could be on private property with an easement for the pole which is often the case in rural roads like that. I doubt that the property owner, or the utility company would welcome its placement. It appears to be actively used as a secondary support pole for another one by using 2 guy wires. One wire is in the ground, and another is attached to a live pole across the street.

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The cacher very well may have intended on replacing it. Perhaps he tried to use a long pole with a hook to grab it and did not know it was screwed in.

If the finder had at least been somewhat apologetic about it, it would have been better. All I see is someone that had no care what happened to the cache, as long as he signed the log. His "found" log and subsequent notes show no sign of apology. It's his attitude more than anything that's upsetting.

got it down without climbing the pole, but needs to be replaced. its in same cords but lower elevation
atleast I put it back where it belongs....cry
next time ill just throw it in the woods. u people need to calm down. doesn't matter how the cache is gotten. so if u got a problem, I don't care. go cry somewhere else
I didn't destroy it so stop crying .
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The cacher very well may have intended on replacing it. Perhaps he tried to use a long pole with a hook to grab it and did not know it was screwed in. Allowing finds by people who show up and throw a party below without helping at all, then blaming someone for actually trying is ridiculous.

 

 

Perhaps he flew up on angels wings. Perhaps he knocked it down with a well thrown rock, that would be another way to "try" as well. Who knows? Certainly no way of telling from his log entires, and his attitude in those don't really make me inclined to grant the benefit of the doubt. But I'm not saying you can't. I really don't know how he got it down, he choose not to explain what happened. He just said it was down, someone go replace it.

 

I doubt anyone would have reacted negatively at all had he stated that that he intended to replace it all along or seemed the least bit sorry that he wasn't able to do so. But hey, at this point what's the difference? If you don't personally have a problem with it, good. I'm not trying to change anyones mind here, just stating my own personal opinion. If you think I'm wrong, or stupid for holding that opinion, that's fine.

 

I do agree that having people congreate and let them claim a find that they couldn't possibly have retrieved on their own is silly. Is a smiley and one more find on your record that important? I don't think that is any more of an accomplishment than knocking the thing down with a sling shot would be, probably less so.

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The cacher very well may have intended on replacing it. Perhaps he tried to use a long pole with a hook to grab it and did not know it was screwed in. Allowing finds by people who show up and throw a party below without helping at all, then blaming someone for actually trying is ridiculous.

 

 

Perhaps he flew up on angels wings. Perhaps he knocked it down with a well thrown rock, that would be another way to "try" as well. Who knows? Certainly no way of telling from his log entires, and his attitude in those don't really make me inclined to grant the benefit of the doubt. But I'm not saying you can't. I really don't know how he got it down, he choose not to explain what happened. He just said it was down, someone go replace it.

 

I doubt anyone would have reacted negatively at all had he stated that that he intended to replace it all along or seemed the least bit sorry that he wasn't able to do so. But hey, at this point what's the difference? If you don't personally have a problem with it, good. I'm not trying to change anyones mind here, just stating my own personal opinion. If you think I'm wrong, or stupid for holding that opinion, that's fine.

 

I do agree that having people congreate and let them claim a find that they couldn't possibly have retrieved on their own is silly. Is a smiley and one more find on your record that important? I don't think that is any more of an accomplishment than knocking the thing down with a sling shot would be, probably less so.

 

Out of the 42 finds, there were only 6 attempts at climbing the pole. Another 6 people found it when it was left on the ground. It should have been tethered and if it wasn't, that is completely the fault of the cache owner. I don't know how it was brought down, but since there was such a large amount of finds from not doing anything at all, a new cacher may reasonably believe that they could do the same. Making him a scapegoat is wrong IMO. The owner should have simply put it back up somehow without all of the whining. The resulting comments from the new cacher is only in response to the whinefest about what he did. If everyone that posted finds somehow lent some kind of a hand in finding it, things would be a bit different. I don't know how his comments can be taken so seriously, when the "finders" were not serious at all about how they found it.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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The cacher very well may have intended on replacing it. Perhaps he tried to use a long pole with a hook to grab it and did not know it was screwed in. Allowing finds by people who show up and throw a party below without helping at all, then blaming someone for actually trying is ridiculous.

 

 

Perhaps he flew up on angels wings. Perhaps he knocked it down with a well thrown rock, that would be another way to "try" as well. Who knows? Certainly no way of telling from his log entires, and his attitude in those don't really make me inclined to grant the benefit of the doubt. But I'm not saying you can't. I really don't know how he got it down, he choose not to explain what happened. He just said it was down, someone go replace it.

 

I doubt anyone would have reacted negatively at all had he stated that that he intended to replace it all along or seemed the least bit sorry that he wasn't able to do so. But hey, at this point what's the difference? If you don't personally have a problem with it, good. I'm not trying to change anyones mind here, just stating my own personal opinion. If you think I'm wrong, or stupid for holding that opinion, that's fine.

 

I do agree that having people congreate and let them claim a find that they couldn't possibly have retrieved on their own is silly. Is a smiley and one more find on your record that important? I don't think that is any more of an accomplishment than knocking the thing down with a sling shot would be, probably less so.

 

Out of the 42 finds, there were only 6 attempts at climbing the pole. Another 6 people found it when it was left on the ground. It should have been tethered and if it wasn't, that is completely the fault of the cache owner. I don't know how it was brought down, but since there was such a large amount of finds from not doing anything at all, a new cacher may reasonably believe that they could do the same. Making him a scapegoat is wrong IMO. The owner should have simply put it back up somehow without all of the whining. The resulting comments from the new cacher is only in response to the whinefest about what he did. If everyone that posted finds somehow lent some kind of a hand in finding it, things would be a bit different. I don't know how his comments can be taken so seriously, when the "finders" were not serious at all about how they found it.

 

I believe that the cache was secured to the pole. The mitch guy came along and knocked it lose somehow. He then logged that he got it but didn't put it back where he found it. The guy should not have retrieved the cache without having a way of putting it back. I'm not sure why anyone would blame the CO on this one. It would have been different if the finder had said something like sorry, i thought i could get it back in place, or sorry, i broke the cache. He didn't offer up anything but a "i got it, couldn't put it back, you need to fix it" log.

 

Yes, the CO could have gone back out and repaired it but that really doesn't matter. The cache was his to do with what he pleased. Like the CO, i guess i'm just naive in expecting more from my fellow humans.

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Ladies and gentlemen we are gathered here to praise and celebrate the great and mighty pole climber who is here with his skilled talents to retrieve a diabolical geocache for us. It is such a great honour to be in the crown when this mighty achievement is completed. He will deliver us all a smiley for simply attending. All hail the master!!

 

 

Wait! A nefarious newbie has tried to get this himself with some rudimentary equipment and defiled it!! Bah! We curseth the evil one who was not in the crowd with us during the event! :rolleyes:

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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