Missed by a mile!

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

We had quite a day today! All of the marks we found today, the stated coordinates on the data sheet were way off. Several of them were off by almost a mile. What to do since Dave D. is retired now?

 

The first map shows our Delorme Topo Map with the benchmarks where they were actually found.

 

 

This second picture shows the map as we were going after them with descriptions and luckily BM Xs on a few. The BM Xs were right on the money and we then did distance from those to the next to help know when to start looking....

 

 

The green area on the right of this map, is where where the downloaded topo detail ended but the wrong coordinates placed them.

 

In total we found 9 benchmarks (B 151 through L 151 - no I) with John spotting another witness post (F 151 one we hadn't seen on the way in and looked harder on the way back) with binoculars about a mile away and the clouds were building up rather quickly by then. It is not a good road to be on if it rains due to mud and dry washes becoming torrents, plus having to cross one nasty creek bed to get back. So, that will have to wait for dryer weather. It is after all, still Monsoon season here in the Arizona/Utah desert.

 

We saw just one other truck all day once we got off the main road. This is a remote and lonely place, so we watch the skies and have a shovel with us, plus other things for the back country.

 

John is getting the pictures ready for the logs and it will be a little while till he gets them all logged. You will have to look at some of the pictures.....moon scapes, I swear....

 

I will put links up for the marks when he gets them posted.

 

Shirley~

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[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

The promised links coming up now....

 

HN0413 B 151

 

HN0414 C 151

 

HN0415 D 151

 

HN0419 G 151 - This one we thought was going to be E or F 151 - Wow, John was surprised to find it stamped G 151!

 

More later..................Still working away..............

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

John typed his fingers raw --- well, not really, but it took a while to finish. The rest of the links.

 

HN0417 E 151

 

HN0420 H 151

 

HN0421 J 151

 

HN0422 K 151

 

HN0423 L 151

 

I hope you go look at some of the pictures.....But.....for those of you who do not, here you go.......

 

 

It at least could be an alien planet, yes?

 

Shirley~

 

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[+m&h]

These are wonderful pictures! They are so good they run the risk of edging us away from the terrific job you did finding these marks. Kudos to you both, and thanks.

 

Cheers,

m&h

[+LSUFan]

Those are some awesome pictures. I am jealous.

 

I am also curious as to what that U 151 mark is, that shows up between D 151 and E 151 on your maps. I am understanding your point being that the marks were way off the posted coordinates, but surely the "U" mark of the 151 level line series couldn't have been that far off.............or was it? If so, it appears that something got messed up somewhere.....even more so than the rest.

 

EDIT: After glancing at the marks coordinates in DSWorld (which you are supposed to be able to send coordinate corrections into NGS with) here is what is they have for the marks. DSWorld's google earths mapping show U 151 in the same spot as your maps do. :

 

S 151 is N37 07 59 W111 17 01

T 151 is N37 07 52 W111 16 47

U 151 is N37 07 35 W111 25 23

V 151 is N37 08 04 W111 16 06

W 151 is N37 08 05 W111 15 37

 

It appears someone may have possibly entered in some wrong numbers in the West minutes for U 151. Looking at the natural progression, it may have supposed to have been 16 minutes (not 25 minutes). Probably just a keyboard entry typo when they were making the online database. If so, they missed by a lot more than a mile on that one.

Edited August 5, 2013 by LSUFan

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Those are some awesome pictures. I am jealous.

 

I am also curious as to what that U 151 mark is, that shows up between D 151 and E 151 on your maps. I am understanding your point being that the marks were way off the posted coordinates, but surely the "U" mark of the 151 level line series couldn't have been that far off.............or was it? If so, it appears that something got messed up somewhere.....even more so than the rest.

 

EDIT: After glancing at the marks coordinates in DSWorld (which you are supposed to be able to send coordinate corrections into NGS with) here is what is they have for the marks. DSWorld's google earths mapping show U 151 in the same spot as your maps do. :

 

S 151 is N37 07 59 W111 17 01

T 151 is N37 07 52 W111 16 47

U 151 is N37 07 35 W111 25 23

V 151 is N37 08 04 W111 16 06

W 151 is N37 08 05 W111 15 37

 

It appears someone may have possibly entered in some wrong numbers in the West minutes for U 151. Looking at the natural progression, it may have supposed to have been 16 minutes (not 25 minutes). Probably just a keyboard entry typo when they were making the online database. If so, they missed by a lot more than a mile on that one.

 

If the weather permits next weekend, we will probably try for "U 151" and F 151. Both will require a hike, so if it appears that there will be storms in the area it will have to wait. The ground is a clay material that when wet, will make your feet weigh about 10 pounds each after only 4 or 5 steps and a 1/2 mile hike is out of the question.

 

There is a BMX on the map for where "U 151" should be located and I saw a witness post (using binoculars) where F 151 is probably located.

 

If we do go, we will report what we find in this thread.

 

John

[+LSUFan]

 

If we do go, we will report what we find in this thread.

 

John

 

Please do. You know how we all like these peculiarities/mysteries.

[foxtrot_xray]

 

If we do go, we will report what we find in this thread.

 

John

 

Please do. You know how we all like these peculiarities/mysteries.

Wow, looking at that road and those images make me drool. That is one freakin' fantastic road. And very neat finds. I'm envious!

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

This is a video taken by a Person from our town of Page, AZ. The first part is taken just east of Page at Antelope Canyon (usually a dry wash) and the bridge along Highway 98 that in over it. Then it shows Highway 89 that is just several blocks from where we live and just a block from where John works that has become flooded by some of the monsoon waters. This is what had taken place two days before we went to get those marks. That is why we watch the skies and weather reports.....

Enjoy the video......

Shirley~

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[DaveD]

2oldfarts - Be assured that your efforts to provided updated hand-held positions for bench marks with very poor scaled values is not in vain. While I am retired from NGS I do have connections that allow me to update the NGS database that are not available to the general public. Whenever someone submits an HH position to update a scaled value before it goes into the NGS database they run a checking program and anything that shows up as being different by more than 10 seconds of latitude and/or longitude gets flagged for checking. Whenever I harvest positions from this site to update I automatically check to see if they meet that standard. In the case of those such as yours I check your updated position with the description to see that they match. If they do, which they certainly do in your case, then I sent them to a contact at NGS who knows that I perform these checks so they get updated automatically.

[kayakbird]

Dave,

 

These two are in the 2Oldfarts backyard, but accessible by boat only.

 

ONE MINUTE CLERICAL ERROR

 

 

ONLY KNOWN PAINTED ROCK

 

 

I have attempted to correct the Lat/Long via DSWorld a couple of times. The L/L in my NGS recovery notes are correct.

 

GP0238'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2010 (MEL)

GP0238'HH2 365241.7 1113103.8

GP0238'MARK IS 0.13 MILE DOWNSTREAM FROM THE VAULT TOILET AT THE NINE MILE

GP0238'CAMP AND ON THE SAME ROCK TERRACE ABOUT MIDWAY BETWEEN THE DROP TO THE

GP0238'RIVER AND THE TOE OF THE NEXT, MUCH HIGHER, ROCK TERRACE. DISK IS

GP0238'STAMPED P 7 1921.

GP0238'

 

 

GP0239'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2010 (MEL)

GP0239'HH2 365416.2 1112959.1

GP0239'OBVIOUS BOULDER ON RIVER LEFT WITH A LARGE PAINTED BM AND ARROW BELOW

GP0239'THE MARK. STAMPED Q 7 1921.

GP0239'

 

Please pass this information on to your contact at NGS.

 

Thanks, Mike

[DaveD]

Mike - GP0237 is already done. I've submitted GP0239. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

2oldfarts - Be assured that your efforts to provided updated hand-held positions for bench marks with very poor scaled values is not in vain. While I am retired from NGS I do have connections that allow me to update the NGS database that are not available to the general public. Whenever someone submits an HH position to update a scaled value before it goes into the NGS database they run a checking program and anything that shows up as being different by more than 10 seconds of latitude and/or longitude gets flagged for checking. Whenever I harvest positions from this site to update I automatically check to see if they meet that standard. In the case of those such as yours I check your updated position with the description to see that they match. If they do, which they certainly do in your case, then I sent them to a contact at NGS who knows that I perform these checks so they get updated automatically.

 

Hi DaveD,

 

It sounds like you are enjoying your retirement by still looking at your favorite things.

 

Thanks for still helping us benchmark hunters when we need it. We hope to have more this weekend.

 

Shirley~

 

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[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Thunder and lightning and rain, oh my.......5:39 a.m. - had planned to take off around 7 a.m. but, maybe we will wait until tomorrow.... Drat it all!

 

Shirley~

 

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[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

That is a lot of rain in that area north of us....drat!

 

Shirley~

 

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[+LSUFan]

2oldfarts - Be assured that your efforts to provided updated hand-held positions for bench marks with very poor scaled values is not in vain. While I am retired from NGS I do have connections that allow me to update the NGS database that are not available to the general public. Whenever someone submits an HH position to update a scaled value before it goes into the NGS database they run a checking program and anything that shows up as being different by more than 10 seconds of latitude and/or longitude gets flagged for checking. Whenever I harvest positions from this site to update I automatically check to see if they meet that standard. In the case of those such as yours I check your updated position with the description to see that they match. If they do, which they certainly do in your case, then I sent them to a contact at NGS who knows that I perform these checks so they get updated automatically.

 

Thanks for the the clarification and for still helping out in your retirement, DaveD.

 

I submitted (thru DSWorld) a recovery the other day on CQ0977, and the photos and updated HandHeld 2 coordinates were posted to it's datasheet very quickly.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

We made it back out to the Croton Road line of marks today. Found 4 of the marks and couldn't find 1 and passed on 1 (waiting on Cooler weather).

 

U 151 is where the description says it should be located and it matches the "BM X" on the topo map. Don't know why that one is so far out of sequence in that line of marks, but it is in good condition and the road leading to it is reasonably good if you have 4 wheel drive. We posted the fresh coordinates on the benchmark page.

 

M 151 It was a not found in 1979.

 

N 151 Found as described

 

P 151 Also found as described, & was the farthest off on the coordinates.

 

Q 151 Should have been the easiest, but was not found.

 

F 151 is waiting for a cooler day to be found. Pictures on the benchmark page show where F 151 is located in relation to Croton Road (which is where the pictures were take from).

 

All the marks found today were way off with the given coordinates, except for U 151 which was within normal scaled coordinates, distances.

 

We had to keep an eye on the clouds today as they started building again when we were about 25 miles from paved roads. Here are some pictures to let you see what we were wanting to avoid.

 

 

 

 

We beat the rains and had a very good day!

Edited August 12, 2013 by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

[kayakbird]

John & Shirley,

 

Great write-ups and photos from you recent amazing hunting trips. You are making me homesick for another visit to the high desert - maybe early November.

 

Plotted on GE a few of your founds (west & east end of that 151 string) and would think that the general run would be making you hopeful that Sierra & Tango might be accessible and not down in the reservoir. Their adjusted elevations seem to fit that next peninsula to the north.

 

On U 151 I'm guessing that they decided not to put it down in the bottom of Glen Canyon - or didn't have a helicopter to get there - and just stuck it in as they headed out to civilization. Would be very interesting to find out if the position clerical errors continues to the rest of that 151 string [Victor thru Zulu].

 

All those 1962 strings in that area must have been set to check for subsidence as the reservoir filled after Glen Canyon Dam was built. MEL