Newbie Needs Advice

[+Chazbo1948]

Hi folks...

 

I'm brand new to Geocaching and need a little advice. I made my first 3 finds yesterday. When I posted a "found it" notice to one of the caches I mentioned that it took me quite awhile to find it and that it turned out to be "a little shiny thing about the size of a 9mm bullet". Is it OK to say things like that or would that be considered too much of a clue? I'm planning a trip out west to Wyoming and Colorado in Sept. and don't want to be posting stuff I shouldn't.

[+buttaskotch]

Describing the exact cache component would b something a cache owner may feel is giving "it" away. (unless the cache owner says, its a shiny, bullet looking thing in their description.)Now the next catcher will read the log and instead of taking the full journey, they now know what to look for.take cues from previous logs.

You may want to edit your log before it gets deleted and say that this was amongst the first caches found and you hadn't seen something like that before. And lastly, thank them for the cache.

Edited August 3, 2013 by buttaskotch

[+Chazbo1948]

Describing the exact cache component would b something a cache owner may feel is giving "it" away. (unless the cache owner says, its a shiny, bullet looking thing in their description.)Now the next catcher will read the log and instead of taking the full journey, they now know what to look for.take cues from previous logs.

You may want to edit your log before it gets deleted and say that this was amongst the first caches found and you hadn't seen something like that before. And lastly, thank them for the cache.

OK thanks for the advice. How does one edit comments in a post?

Edited August 3, 2013 by Chazbo1948

[+Cardinal Red]

Describing the exact cache component would b something a cache owner may feel is giving "it" away. (unless the cache owner says, its a shiny, bullet looking thing in their description.)Now the next catcher will read the log and instead of taking the full journey, they now know what to look for.take cues from previous logs.

You may want to edit your log before it gets deleted and say that this was amongst the first caches found and you hadn't seen something like that before. And lastly, thank them for the cache.

OK thanks for the advice. How does one edit comments in a post?

 

You will see a link beneath any of your cache logs: View / Edit Log / Images

 

That will bring up a copy of your log along with three icons. PENCIL (edit log), TRASH CAN (delete log), PHOTOGRAPH? (upload image). Choose the Pencil, make your changes, re-submit.

 

Extra free advice you didn't ask for yet. I see it often enough. Don't quote or paraphrase an encrypted hint as plain text in your log. Why the heck do loggers think it was encrypted in the first place?

[Clan Riffster]

When I posted a "found it" notice to one of the caches I mentioned that it took me quite awhile to find it and that it turned out to be "a little shiny thing about the size of a 9mm bullet". Is it OK to say things like that or would that be considered too much of a clue?

Your original log was fine. All you did was share the description given by the owner on the cache page. Where your description might be problematic is when the owner does not describe the container on the cache page, or worse, does not list the size.

[AZcachemeister]

What does the cache page say right above the 'user logs' section?

 

**Warning! Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links.

 

It's OK to make side comments about the hide or container. After a while you will learn how to code them so that they don't seem to apply to the cache at all.

 

If the Cache Owner feels you have given too much away, they should contact you to ask you to edit your log...but they might simply delete your log. If your log gets deleted and you did make some comments about the container and/or the hide, simply re-log and leave out the unwanted (by the CO anyway)* details.

 

*I can't tell you how many times a cleverly worded log (that was actually a hint) has saved me from a DNF.

[+CanadianRockies]

What does the cache page say right above the 'user logs' section?

 

**Warning! Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links.

Because Groundspeak is warning you that some people ignore (or are unaware of) their Terms of Use Agreement:

 

D. You agree not to: ...

 

xxiii. Publish on our websites the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the geocache owner.

Grammatically, it would be better if they changed their warning from "Spoilers may be included..." to "Spoilers might be included..."

[AZcachemeister]

What does the cache page say right above the 'user logs' section?

 

**Warning! Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links.

Because Groundspeak is warning you that some people ignore (or are unaware of) their Terms of Use Agreement:

 

D. You agree not to: ...

 

xxiii. Publish on our websites the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the geocache owner.

Grammatically, it would be better if they changed their warning from "Spoilers may be included..." to "Spoilers might be included..."

 

An interesting paradox, eh?

 

Since the owner has control of what is in the logs on their page, it would seem that anything stated in the logs not deleted by the owner should be OK, wouldn't you think?

[+CanadianRockies]

What does the cache page say right above the 'user logs' section?

 

**Warning! Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links.

Because Groundspeak is warning you that some people ignore (or are unaware of) their Terms of Use Agreement:

 

D. You agree not to: ...

 

xxiii. Publish on our websites the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the geocache owner.

Grammatically, it would be better if they changed their warning from "Spoilers may be included..." to "Spoilers might be included..."

An interesting paradox, eh?

 

Since the owner has control of what is in the logs on their page, it would seem that anything stated in the logs not deleted by the owner should be OK, wouldn't you think?

Not deleting a spoiler log/photo isn't the same as providing consent. Some owners might dislike the spoilers but consider it rude to delete a log over the issue. Others might simply not want to bother with the task. A few might not even read the emails that notified them of the logs.

[AZcachemeister]

Well, then it should say:

 

**Warning! Spoilers must not be included in the descriptions or links.

 

and there should be a link to the TOU.

 

On one hand they are warning us that we might see spoilers, and on the other hand 'we agree' not to post them?

 

Failure to use the provided tools to keep spoilers out of your cache's logs is like complaining about the weeds in your garden that you never tend.

[+Chazbo1948]

Thanks for all the info. I've gone back and changed my log to just say that I "found it".

[+CanadianRockies]

On one hand they are warning us that we might see spoilers, and on the other hand 'we agree' not to post them?

Yep. Welcome to the real world. Have you ever seen a sign at your local park's parking lot that says something like: "WARNING: Thieves frequent the area. Please lock any valuables in your trunk." This warning appears even though stealing is illegal.

 

Failure to use the provided tools to keep spoilers out of your cache's logs is like complaining about the weeds in your garden that you never tend.

And I guess it's okay for thieves at your local park to steal valuables that are locked in the backseat of a vehicle?

[Clan Riffster]

... like complaining about the weeds in your garden that you never tend.

Wait... That's bad?

Crap....

[Mr.Yuck]

Thanks for all the info. I've gone back and changed my log to just say that I "found it".

 

Newbies, as we'll call you, have always had a high incidence of posting "spoilers" in their logs. Do not be offended by the term newbie, it predates the internet. I was called that when I showed up for Army Basic Training in 1983, by people who just happened to show up there 2 weeks before me. I swear though, in the smartphone Geocaching era, a lot of people have no idea they are uploading what they thumb out on their phone to a website for all to see, and they think their "pill bottle in a tree" log is just for their own reference, or something.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Mr.Yuck

[Clan Riffster]

Thanks for all the info. I've gone back and changed my log to just say that I "found it".

Okay, but there really was no need to change anything. The only time you might want to withhold describing the cache in your log, is when the owner does not describe it on the cache page. In this case, the cache owner told everyone exactly what the cache was. As such, your description cannot be viewed as a spoiler.

[AZcachemeister]

On one hand they are warning us that we might see spoilers, and on the other hand 'we agree' not to post them?

Yep. Welcome to the real world. Have you ever seen a sign at your local park's parking lot that says something like: "WARNING: Thieves frequent the area. Please lock any valuables in your trunk." This warning appears even though stealing is illegal.

 

Failure to use the provided tools to keep spoilers out of your cache's logs is like complaining about the weeds in your garden that you never tend.

And I guess it's okay for thieves at your local park to steal valuables that are locked in the backseat of a vehicle?

 

Hmm, forcibly breaking into someone's vehicle vs. describing a bit of detail about a cache find in the log?

Those two acts seem light-years apart to me.

 

I guess we should all log 'TFTC' to avoid any accidental slip-ups in our exuberance to post a nice entertaining log for the CO to read?

 

I reiterate, the CO has the power to delete anything they think is too much of a spoiler from their cache pages, and in fact they have been given the responsibility to do so. So the 'Don't post spoilers' bit in the TOU does not apply there...or at least it is unenforceable unless TPTB are going to hire a bunch of people to read every log that gets posted to every cache. If they do, though, those people can also delete all the duplicate finds, and the 'couldn't sign the log but claiming a smilie anyway' logs.

[+Zaise]

One thing that I've done, when I want to write something that I feel MIGHT give something away (which I do my best to avoid), I use the option to encrypt my log. I think I've only ever done this once or twice.

[+Jayman11]

Welcome to the fun Chazbo!

[AZcachemeister]

One thing that I've done, when I want to write something that I feel MIGHT give something away (which I do my best to avoid), I use the option to encrypt my log. I think I've only ever done this once or twice.

 

Which alerts me to the fact that you 'said something', and I decrypt it immediately.

[+CanadianRockies]

Hmm, forcibly breaking into someone's vehicle vs. describing a bit of detail about a cache find in the log?

Those two acts seem light-years apart to me.

It's an analogy. The reasoning is the same, but I intentionally exaggerated the "offense" to help clarify the flaw in your logic.

 

You don't seem to have any trouble understanding that stealing isn't okay just because there are warning signs informing you that thieves might be in the area. I was hoping you could understand that analogy and use it to realize why posting spoilers in logs or photographs isn't okay just because a warning informs you that some people might have done just that.

 

I reiterate, the CO has the power to delete anything they think is too much of a spoiler from their cache pages, and in fact they have been given the responsibility to do so. So the 'Don't post spoilers' bit in the TOU does not apply there...

In the Terms of Use Agreement, you agree not to log any spoilers without the consent of the cache owner. As I pointed out, not deleting a spoiler is not the same as giving your consent to a spoiler. Owners might consider deleting to be rude, might not want to be bothered with the task, might not aware of the log, etc.

 

Let me try another analogy. Suppose someone breaks into your vehicle and steals a stick of gum. You don't bother reporting the incident to the police. Does that means you gave your consent and no crime was committed?

 

...or at least it is unenforceable unless TPTB are going to hire a bunch of people to read every log that gets posted to every cache.

Just because it is basically unenforceable doesn't mean it's okay. Here comes another analogy... Since Groundspeak hasn't hired a bunch of people to inspect every hide, does that mean it's okay to bury caches? Of course not.