Encouraging throw downs...

[+The_Incredibles_]

I recently got yelled at by a CO for NOT placing a throwdown when I discovered the cache missing minus the lid. That is a new one on me.

 

How bizarre. Did he also tell you off for not buying him toilet paper?

[Clan Riffster]

I recently got yelled at by a CO for NOT placing a throwdown when I discovered the cache missing minus the lid. That is a new one on me.

 

I'd have posted an NA so fast his head would have spun.

That was my thought as well. The cache owner has all but stated they will not do maintenance.

[+nthacker66]

I recently got yelled at by a CO for NOT placing a throwdown when I discovered the cache missing minus the lid. That is a new one on me.

 

I'd have posted an NA so fast his head would have spun.

That was my thought as well. The cache owner has all but stated they will not do maintenance.

 

If there was a power trail attribute - it would utilized in my PQ very often...to ignore

[+Michaelcycle]

As per Mr Yuck's post the power trail along the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal contains the following in the description of the first cache:

 

NOTE: there should NOT be any DNF's. Take a few spare micro containers and logs with you. If you find a cache is missing, just replace it (claiming a find) and move on--better for you and much less work for the Commission!

 

We have already heard from Keystone that he would not publish a listing containing such language. Obviously briansnat (wearing his other GS hat) would not either.

This leaves the question of why the reviewer (an honest man I know personally who is a stickler for the rules) approved that cache? Was the cache page altered post publication? Did GS give special dispensation to "power trails"? Is there significant leeway granted by GS to reviewers to disagree on such a fundamental issue?

Edited August 8, 2013 by Michaelcycle

[Clan Riffster]

As per Mr Yuck's post the power trail along the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal contains the following in the description of the first cache:

 

NOTE: there should NOT be any DNF's. Take a few spare micro containers and logs with you. If you find a cache is missing, just replace it (claiming a find) and move on--better for you and much less work for the Commission!

 

We have already heard from Keystone that he would not publish a listing containing such language. Obviously briansnat (wearing his other GS hat) would not either.

This leaves the question of why the reviewer (an honest man I know personally who is a stickler for the rules) approved that cache? Was the cache page altered post publication? Did GS give special dispensation to "power trails"? Is there significant leeway granted by GS to reviewers to disagree on such a fundamental issue?

It's been my experience that anytime a question starts with, "Why don't they...", (such as, "Why don't they enforce the guidelines consistently?"), the answer is usually money. Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

[+nthacker66]

As per Mr Yuck's post the power trail along the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal contains the following in the description of the first cache:

 

NOTE: there should NOT be any DNF's. Take a few spare micro containers and logs with you. If you find a cache is missing, just replace it (claiming a find) and move on--better for you and much less work for the Commission!

 

We have already heard from Keystone that he would not publish a listing containing such language. Obviously briansnat (wearing his other GS hat) would not either.

This leaves the question of why the reviewer (an honest man I know personally who is a stickler for the rules) approved that cache? Was the cache page altered post publication? Did GS give special dispensation to "power trails"? Is there significant leeway granted by GS to reviewers to disagree on such a fundamental issue?

It's been my experience that anytime a question starts with, "Why don't they...", (such as, "Why don't they enforce the guidelines consistently?"), the answer is usually money. Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

 

Also depends on the reviewer and how they personally interprete the guidelines. For example, Dale SZ (or whatever his name is) in Georgia will not approve a challenge cache unless the CO has done it themselves where as other reviewers will (the guidelines state its at the discretion of the reviewer).

But Clan is right - power trails = containers = something that Groundspeak and brand and sell logs for = money.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

 

Can someone explain to me in simple terms how Groundspeak makes money from power trails?

[+CanadianRockies]

But Clan is right - power trails = containers = something that Groundspeak and brand and sell logs for = money.

I don't think Groundspeak makes a whole bunch of money from selling logs for power trail containers. Those types of containers tend to be micro in size, and their logs tend to be sheets of printer paper that have been cut to size.

 

Most of the money Groundspeak makes from power trails probably comes from premium membership sales.

[Clan Riffster]

Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

 

Can someone explain to me in simple terms how Groundspeak makes money from power trails?

I can try.

There is a lot of diversity amongst our ranks, from those who prefer hiking 20 miles up a mountain for a single ammo can, to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between. Judging from my personal observations, the fastest growing group amongst us are the latter group, whom I will call 'Couch Potatoes', for lack of a better term. By marketing directly to this group, Groundspeak increases its member count, which in turn, increases its premium member count. Couch Potatoes are, as a group, well armed in smart phone ownership and use, so the sales from the app increase as well.

 

By actively promoting quantity over quality, leading to such drivel as power trails, Groundspeak's coffers swell.

[+CdAGeoGeeks]

Don't forget commemorative coins sales as well. Lots of people have bought Alien Head coins and trackable T-shirts as momentos of power trails.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Don't forget commemorative coins sales as well. Lots of people have bought Alien Head coins and trackable T-shirts as momentos of power trails.

 

I've done power trails and I've done Alien Head and unless you think a power trail includes a 5 mile hike in the desert I wouldn't label Alien Head a power trail. It's strange....those that are delighted with a 5 mile walk to a single cache become disenchanted if there are 20 caches on the same hike. Its as though the extra caches somehow ruin the experience...it makes me wonder why some folks cache at all, nothing wrong with hiking if that's all you want to do.

 

Does GS have a dark money motive regarding PT's etc......not at all. I think the majority of cachers ( maybe not forum users ) enjoy high density cache placements and GS is simply giving the customer what he wants.

 

Remember folks, they're not " throw downs " they're replacement caches placed by considerate cachers to assist cache owners and future finders.

[+nthacker66]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

Edited August 9, 2013 by nthacker66

[+nthacker66]

 

It's strange....those that are delighted with a 5 mile walk to a single cache become disenchanted if there are 20 caches on the same hike. Its as though the extra caches somehow ruin the experience...it makes me wonder why some folks cache at all, nothing wrong with hiking if that's all you want to do.

 

 

That statement can be true in some cases. A great example is a letterbox alled The Highwayman - is a 2.5 mile hike one way on a former rail line. Fun little story for the letterbox and a rather enchanting hike on the old rail trail. It stood pretty "cacheless" for a while other than a couple of ammocans along the way. Reently, someone decided to place 16 caches along that hike and, yes, I did it and it took away from the myatique of that letter box. The little markers you had to find along the way, the feel of a longer hike and thinking about what you would find at the end is distracted by "micro along the trail" - for me, it killed the "feel" for that letterbox simply because it distracted from the hike itself. It wasn't a bad series, I enjoyed finding the caches, but it is still very distracting from imersering youself in the "story" - editing to add - its also not to say this is the case for every long hike. Some places I think "man, this could use more caches" and some places, like one just recently called "the crocdile hunters crikey cache" which makes you take a good 2 mile along an undeveloped beach, I think "i sure hope no other caches get placed here" - In short, some places just dont need but one cache and some places could use more. So I both agree and disagree with your statement :-)

 

And yes, since I dont like throw downs or power trails, i generally ignore them. I will always stand by the quality over quantity motto as well as the practicality of taking a low visibility low impact activity become high profile high impact. Regardless of "you play your way I play mine" - it will always stand as my opinion, like it or not.

Edited August 9, 2013 by nthacker66

[+wimseyguy]

Couldn't you have had that same long hike in the woods without the distraction of all of those micros along the trail if you had just ignored them and walked all the way out to the Highwayman without stopping?

[AZcachemeister]

I recently got yelled at by a CO for NOT placing a throwdown when I discovered the cache missing minus the lid. That is a new one on me.

 

I'd have posted an NA so fast his head would have spun.

 

No excrement!

Is it entitlement to expect others to maintain your caches?

[+The_Incredibles_]

Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

 

Can someone explain to me in simple terms how Groundspeak makes money from power trails?

I can try.

There is a lot of diversity amongst our ranks, from those who prefer hiking 20 miles up a mountain for a single ammo can, to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between. Judging from my personal observations, the fastest growing group amongst us are the latter group, whom I will call 'Couch Potatoes', for lack of a better term. By marketing directly to this group, Groundspeak increases its member count, which in turn, increases its premium member count. Couch Potatoes are, as a group, well armed in smart phone ownership and use, so the sales from the app increase as well.

 

By actively promoting quantity over quality, leading to such drivel as power trails, Groundspeak's coffers swell.

 

I still don't get it. Promoting the sport, in general, will cause an increase in premium memberships. I don't see what powertrails have to do with it. I haven't personally seen Groundspeak promoting powertrails. It only makes sense for them to promote the sport. And I don't see a problem with focusing on smartphone apps either. It's the way of the future.

[Keystone]

As per Mr Yuck's post the power trail along the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal contains the following in the description of the first cache:

 

NOTE: there should NOT be any DNF's. Take a few spare micro containers and logs with you. If you find a cache is missing, just replace it (claiming a find) and move on--better for you and much less work for the Commission!

 

We have already heard from Keystone that he would not publish a listing containing such language. Obviously briansnat (wearing his other GS hat) would not either.

This leaves the question of why the reviewer (an honest man I know personally who is a stickler for the rules) approved that cache? Was the cache page altered post publication? Did GS give special dispensation to "power trails"? Is there significant leeway granted by GS to reviewers to disagree on such a fundamental issue?

It's been my experience that anytime a question starts with, "Why don't they...", (such as, "Why don't they enforce the guidelines consistently?"), the answer is usually money. Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

Sorry to ruin your theory, burst your bubble or whatever, but the case I described in my earlier post DID involve a power trail. Groundspeak backed me up in rejecting the cache owner's "maintenance plan," and they also knew it was a power trail.

 

I would distinguish between "my" power trail and the one Michaelcycle describes based on the fact that a governmental agency was involved in placing that power trail. Groundspeak often bends the rules considerably when it's the land manager who is placing the caches. The Ranger Rick series is another example of this.

[+Manville Possum]

As per Mr Yuck's post the power trail along the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal contains the following in the description of the first cache:

 

NOTE: there should NOT be any DNF's. Take a few spare micro containers and logs with you. If you find a cache is missing, just replace it (claiming a find) and move on--better for you and much less work for the Commission!

 

We have already heard from Keystone that he would not publish a listing containing such language. Obviously briansnat (wearing his other GS hat) would not either.

This leaves the question of why the reviewer (an honest man I know personally who is a stickler for the rules) approved that cache? Was the cache page altered post publication? Did GS give special dispensation to "power trails"? Is there significant leeway granted by GS to reviewers to disagree on such a fundamental issue?

It's been my experience that anytime a question starts with, "Why don't they...", (such as, "Why don't they enforce the guidelines consistently?"), the answer is usually money. Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

Sorry to ruin your theory, burst your bubble or whatever, but the case I described in my earlier post DID involve a power trail. Groundspeak backed me up in rejecting the cache owner's "maintenance plan," and they also knew it was a power trail.

 

I would distinguish between "my" power trail and the one Michaelcycle describes based on the fact that a governmental agency was involved in placing that power trail. Groundspeak often bends the rules considerably when it's the land manager who is placing the caches. The Ranger Rick series is another example of this.

I think you do a great job. I just wanted to say Thank You. MPH.

[4wheelin_fool]

I recently got yelled at by a CO for NOT placing a throwdown when I discovered the cache missing minus the lid. That is a new one on me.

 

I'd have posted an NA so fast his head would have spun.

 

No excrement!

Is it entitlement to expect others to maintain your caches?

Yes it's entitlement and they should be beaten severely for it. I don't care I'd they work for the government, and actually that makes it worse.

 

I would also like to mention that some "throwdowns" are only placed with the motivation of helping out the owner, and none other. You can throw out examples, but results vary depending on the area.

 

Although if it is expected, they should be beaten.

[+WarNinjas]

Reading this thread I posted a log that if anyone wants to place a throw down on one of our difficult terrain caches that has 2 DNFs on it we would be OK with it! We will get out there to check on it soon but if someone is already jumping all those rocks way out there we would be happy for them to place one! It is a journey to get there!

[+Mudfrog]

Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

 

Can someone explain to me in simple terms how Groundspeak makes money from power trails?

I can try.

There is a lot of diversity amongst our ranks, from those who prefer hiking 20 miles up a mountain for a single ammo can, to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between. Judging from my personal observations, the fastest growing group amongst us are the latter group, whom I will call 'Couch Potatoes', for lack of a better term. By marketing directly to this group, Groundspeak increases its member count, which in turn, increases its premium member count. Couch Potatoes are, as a group, well armed in smart phone ownership and use, so the sales from the app increase as well.

 

By actively promoting quantity over quality, leading to such drivel as power trails, Groundspeak's coffers swell.

 

I still don't get it. Promoting the sport, in general, will cause an increase in premium memberships. I don't see what powertrails have to do with it. I haven't personally seen Groundspeak promoting powertrails. It only makes sense for them to promote the sport. And I don't see a problem with focusing on smartphone apps either. It's the way of the future.

 

GC.com used to discourage placing caches every 528 feet even though that number was stated in the guidlines. They used to encourage placing interesting caches in interesting places. They used to discourage competitveness in the hobby. I'm sure there's more.

 

As we can all clearly see, these philosophies are no longer promoted by Groundspeak. They know that most people who play now could care less about a clever hide. They know that smiley count is the important thing for most players these days. Quantity is in and power trails offer up big smiley count. This makes the new generation of cachers happy so they spend more of their money here. It's no wonder Groundspeak is now totally ok with power trails.

[+The_Incredibles_]

OK, I get it now. Thanks, Mudfrog!

[+Team Microdot]

Reading this thread I posted a log that if anyone wants to place a throw down on one of our difficult terrain caches that has 2 DNFs on it we would be OK with it! We will get out there to check on it soon but if someone is already jumping all those rocks way out there we would be happy for them to place one! It is a journey to get there!

 

So, two armchair DNF's and I'm out there with my throwdown for a guaranteed find

 

I mean, why would I want to waste time / energy / gas satisfying your criteria for a throwdown? Pah! Enough of making me jump through hoops before I'm allowed to place my own container

[+Don_J]

 

Remember folks, they're not " throw downs " they're replacement caches placed by considerate cachers to assist cache owners and future finders.

 

That's absolutely absurd.

[Clan Riffster]

...they're replacement crappy container caches placed spit out by considerate cachers entitlement junkies to assist cache owners and future finders boost their find count and reduce the number of DNFs they have..

Fixed it for ya.

[+Roman!]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Roman!

[team tisri]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

Reminds me of a cache I found that was rated something like D2.5/T3

 

I parked the car, walked about 50 feet along a flat gravel path and found the cache at the base of a tree. Admittedly I had had to get out of the SUV and use my feet for a huge distance (although in fairness I might have managed to park a little bit closer), but that rating seemed just a little excessive.

 

Luckily other cache hiders in the same area aren't quite so liberal with high ratings. There are some caches around the top of 1000 steps in the side of a mountain - some are rated T5 and a couple of others are rated T4.5 on the basis that you have to climb 1000+ steps and hike a mile or more from the top but you don't need specialist gear so it's not really a T5.

[+CanadianRockies]

There are some caches around the top of 1000 steps in the side of a mountain - some are rated T5 and a couple of others are rated T4.5 on the basis that you have to climb 1000+ steps and hike a mile or more from the top but you don't need specialist gear so it's not really a T5.

Specialized gear isn't needed for a cache to be rated T5. According to Groundspeak's Help Center's suggestions, you should consider giving a cache a T5 rating for:

 

Extremely challenging terrain

 

Requires specialized equipment (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc.) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

[JASTA 11]

...they're replacement crappy container caches placed spit out by considerate cachers entitlement junkies to assist cache owners and future finders boost their find count and reduce the number of DNFs they have..

Fixed it for ya.

 

EXACTLY!

 

Like this one who logged this in the middle of their 677 (and still counting) day find streak:

 

BigStreaker Found it!

4:31:00 PM Super busy day today and this was on the way home until it's time for the next activity so stopped to grab it. UGH, where is it?? Didn't have time to go find another and had an extra container in the car so replaced it. Went to text CO to let him know and discovered he is not in my PAF list. It's not a fancy container but does have an official log in a baggie inside it so hopefully it'll last longer. TFTC #2038

 

This made me wonder how the 'consecutive days with without a throwdown' streak was going for them.

 

[+Michaelcycle]

As per Mr Yuck's post the power trail along the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal contains the following in the description of the first cache:

 

NOTE: there should NOT be any DNF's. Take a few spare micro containers and logs with you. If you find a cache is missing, just replace it (claiming a find) and move on--better for you and much less work for the Commission!

 

We have already heard from Keystone that he would not publish a listing containing such language. Obviously briansnat (wearing his other GS hat) would not either.

This leaves the question of why the reviewer (an honest man I know personally who is a stickler for the rules) approved that cache? Was the cache page altered post publication? Did GS give special dispensation to "power trails"? Is there significant leeway granted by GS to reviewers to disagree on such a fundamental issue?

It's been my experience that anytime a question starts with, "Why don't they...", (such as, "Why don't they enforce the guidelines consistently?"), the answer is usually money. Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

Sorry to ruin your theory, burst your bubble or whatever, but the case I described in my earlier post DID involve a power trail. Groundspeak backed me up in rejecting the cache owner's "maintenance plan," and they also knew it was a power trail.

 

I would distinguish between "my" power trail and the one Michaelcycle describes based on the fact that a governmental agency was involved in placing that power trail. Groundspeak often bends the rules considerably when it's the land manager who is placing the caches. The Ranger Rick series is another example of this.

Thank you for your reply. I will also ask the reviewer involved the next time I see him. It is unfortunate that GS does not take the opportunity to let land managers know that throw-downs increase the probability of additional containers at GZ (so all the extras are "litter") and that geocachers in non throw-down areas are responsible stewards of the land manager's resources by properly maintaining caches they place.

Makes me wonder whether some geocacher conned the governmental agency into approving the caches without mentioning the throw-down provision...

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Remember folks, they're not " throw downs " they're replacement caches placed by considerate cachers to assist cache owners and future finders.

 

That's absolutely absurd.

 

Well, if Bamboozle wants a politically correct term for "throw downs", which of course has negative connotations, I believe many have referred to them as "Angel Caches". So there you go.

 

Bamboozle isn't among the oldest of the oldtimers, but he's been around several months longer than me, and *I* have been around longer than 98% of Geocachers (seriously). I suppose "helping people out" was much more common (and accepted) back when there were 100,000 registered members, as opposed to the 7 million today. Then Bamboozle has still rolled with that philosophy all these years. Where I, on the other hand, say "screw that, not now with 2 Million Geocaches out there".

[Mr.Yuck]

As per Mr Yuck's post the power trail along the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal contains the following in the description of the first cache:

 

NOTE: there should NOT be any DNF's. Take a few spare micro containers and logs with you. If you find a cache is missing, just replace it (claiming a find) and move on--better for you and much less work for the Commission!

 

We have already heard from Keystone that he would not publish a listing containing such language. Obviously briansnat (wearing his other GS hat) would not either.

This leaves the question of why the reviewer (an honest man I know personally who is a stickler for the rules) approved that cache? Was the cache page altered post publication? Did GS give special dispensation to "power trails"? Is there significant leeway granted by GS to reviewers to disagree on such a fundamental issue?

It's been my experience that anytime a question starts with, "Why don't they...", (such as, "Why don't they enforce the guidelines consistently?"), the answer is usually money. Groundspeak recognized the financial value of power trails, and has apparently given them a pass.

 

I would distinguish between "my" power trail and the one Michaelcycle describes based on the fact that a governmental agency was involved in placing that power trail. Groundspeak often bends the rules considerably when it's the land manager who is placing the caches. The Ranger Rick series is another example of this.

 

Comes with the job, I suppose. Along with having to publish lampskirt micros in the Wal-Mart parking lot.

 

Seriously though, I can see them bending the rules in the Delaware case, and let them have the language.

[JASTA 11]

Just came across these situated within a long string of DNF's:

 

Found it

hope you dont mind.. after a thorough search replaced cache.. hope it stays..

 

13,000+ 'Finds', but so much for their hope. 'Cause just four months later....

 

Found it

FoundDNF with [other cacher]. We spent a couple of nights camping at Hancock so of course had to go for this cache. The tenting area was full this weekend so we waited until later in the day on Sunday to search for the cache, after all the tenters left. With all the DNF's, including our search, we replaced the cache after contacting someone who had found the cache before. It looks like this area goes under water in the spring when the meltage swells the bankings so not sure if this cache will last in this location. TFTC!

 

10,000+ 'Finds' for this guy. His partner didn't claim the throwdown. (Must have standards)

 

Replacing a cache without contacting the owner first? Then claiming a find? And TFTC? Just thank yourself!

 

I wonder if it was the first throw-downer that this guy called?

[+BAMBOOZLE]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

 

This is actually true.....if you're dealing with 7 foot deep road side ditches and high banks its far worse.

I kind of slide out my pick-up and a short climb in.....I can't even imagine doing several hundred caches crawling out of the new low riding auto's, I'd be in the hospital.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

 

Remember folks, they're not " throw downs " they're replacement caches placed by considerate cachers to assist cache owners and future finders.

 

That's absolutely absurd.

 

Well, if Bamboozle wants a politically correct term for "throw downs", which of course has negative connotations, I believe many have referred to them as "Angel Caches". So there you go.

 

Bamboozle isn't among the oldest of the oldtimers, but he's been around several months longer than me, and *I* have been around longer than 98% of Geocachers (seriously). I suppose "helping people out" was much more common (and accepted) back when there were 100,000 registered members, as opposed to the 7 million today. Then Bamboozle has still rolled with that philosophy all these years. Where I, on the other hand, say "screw that, not now with 2 Million Geocaches out there".

 

I can verify that the part in bold was most certainly not the norm- at least in my area...YRMV.

[+littlegemsy]

Hmmm, if ever somebody, even a streaker, throws down a cache for one of mine (missing or not), I think I'll definitely delete it.

 

Can you imagine how peeved a 677 day streak person would be if they lost it because you didn't accept their throwdown? Bet you'd get a nasty email.

[team tisri]

There are some caches around the top of 1000 steps in the side of a mountain - some are rated T5 and a couple of others are rated T4.5 on the basis that you have to climb 1000+ steps and hike a mile or more from the top but you don't need specialist gear so it's not really a T5.

Specialized gear isn't needed for a cache to be rated T5. According to Groundspeak's Help Center's suggestions, you should consider giving a cache a T5 rating for:

 

Extremely challenging terrain

 

Requires specialized equipment (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc.) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

 

Fair enough, it's just that "extremely difficult" is a subjective judgment call. I guess it could be T4.5 or T5 depending on how difficult the cache setter thought climbing 1000 steps actually was. I figure if you've got essentially normal levels of mobility you can get up the steps, even if slowly - it's like a slightly uneven staircase that just goes on for a long time.

[Clan Riffster]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

[+Corp Of Discovery]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

 

I'd get bored doing 36 ammo can hidden under a pile of sticks, just as I would doing 36 skirt lifters in a row. I like variety- mixing up types, sizes and styles. Guess it's the ADD in me.

[+Roman!]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

 

You mentioned calories burnt, that has everything to do with physical exertion, if you don't like power trails that's another thing, personally I had an awesome time doing them as I do hiking to some pretty cool mountain tops.

 

As for creativity, take a look at the train or jet geoart in Idaho, I'd call that creative and as for the effort to make it happen, I couldn't even imagine.

[+Don_J]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

 

This is actually true.....if you're dealing with 7 foot deep road side ditches and high banks its far worse.

I kind of slide out my pick-up and a short climb in.....I can't even imagine doing several hundred caches crawling out of the new low riding auto's, I'd be in the hospital.

 

I had a friend blow out a knee that eventually required surgery from doing the ET Hwy Trail. No particular incident, just the constant repetitive motion.

[+nthacker66]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

 

LOL, 36 beats my 29. I was bored to tears. It was when a deer tick was crawling on me I said "why am I sweaty and have a tick on me when all I am doing is driving down a back road. I should be hiking!"

 

But clan is dead on here. And before I get the "you can ignore PT's, you dont have to do them. that's your opinion" and so on from my favorite people on here - PT's to me are just lazy and numbers boosters. And that by itself is fine. But I am still entitled to my own opinion and doesn't make it wrong because it disagrees with others. I simply don't like them and if the subject comes up discussing them online like this - I will voice that opinion every time. That is why these are called "discussion forums" not "agree with so and so" forums.

 

Now where I take issues with power trails is the fact that they are high impact/high visibility, can put the finder in danger when pulling off the side of a road, can impose right near a property line of a person. and just introduce elements that can be detrimental to the game.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

 

I'd get bored doing 36 ammo can hidden under a pile of sticks, just as I would doing 36 skirt lifters in a row. I like variety- mixing up types, sizes and styles. Guess it's the ADD in me.

 

This really says it all.

In the Ocala National Forest a couple of years ago we did a power trail of ammo cans....no kidding. After several hours of this I was looking forward to a hanging micro. The boredom was broken up by numerous bear hunters asking us if we had seen any and also asking about panthers.

I think variety is the spice of life.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

 

Re adventure and creativity

 

Very few ammo can hides could be called creative but I love them all.

 

Our greatest adventures by far have involved power trails in the desert and boondocks and are usually the result of my trying a short cut " out " using GPS and Nuvi......we've always made it but my next truck needs to be 4WD.

[+nthacker66]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

 

I'd get bored doing 36 ammo can hidden under a pile of sticks, just as I would doing 36 skirt lifters in a row. I like variety- mixing up types, sizes and styles. Guess it's the ADD in me.

 

This really says it all.

In the Ocala National Forest a couple of years ago we did a power trail of ammo cans....no kidding. After several hours of this I was looking forward to a hanging micro. The boredom was broken up by numerous bear hunters asking us if we had seen any and also asking about panthers.

I think variety is the spice of life.

Whoever said the PT was boring because of the container? PT's suck no matter what the container is.

[+Dogmeat*]

I think it's pretty crappy to do that. I have, however, put down a replacement when someone disabled their cache because it was in fact missing but they were out of province and couldn't replace it. I think that's okay, but just throwing one down because you can't find it? Ridiculous.

[Clan Riffster]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

 

Very few ammo can hides could be called creative but I love them all.

 

I can only assume you've focused your hunts on P&G ammo cans.

When you were in the ONF cranking up your numbers, you could've taken a stroll down Mormon Creek, where roughly 8 hours of extreme bushwhacking will net you half a dozen finds. Or, you could've spent 3 or 4 days bushwhacking through the Coexist series, which will net you 60 finds. I've done both. Gobs of creativity to be had.

 

As long as your only focus is on increasing your find count, with no thought to quality, you have to exclude anything which isn't a copy/paste P&G. At that point, it really doesn't matter what kind of containers are at ground zero. You opted to do power trails in Ocala. Power trails and creativity don't go well together.

[Clan Riffster]

 

...to those who fear walking more than 15' from the A/C in their minivans, afraid they might accidentally burn a calorie, and would much rather spend all day hopping from film can to film can, in an unending bid to increase their smiley count. And everything in between.

 

BAHAHAHAHA that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on thee forums. But sadly, it is so very very true.

 

"afraid they might accidently burn a calorie" I love it!!! ROFL!!!!

 

True? Really? I have done power trails, my record is 567 caches in one day and I have done some pretty intense 8-12 hr hikes with 3-4000+ feet elevatin gain and I find the power trail more physically exhausting than the hikes.

My actual complaint against P&Gs has little to do with physical exertion, as how much a person sweats is an inconsistent way, for me, to measure the quality of a hide, as defined by my wholly subjective standards. A better measurement would be the amount of adventure present, or the amount of creativity involved in the hide. Sometimes both of these qualities are found in a single cache. With the power trails you drool over, neither quality is present.

 

Like you, I have also done a power trail.

 

It was the most tedious 36 finds of my life.

 

The utter void of mental / physical stimulation left me gasping for an ammo can.

 

For those who can spend all day with no creative input, power trails could be a great thing...

 

I'd get bored doing 36 ammo can hidden under a pile of sticks, just as I would doing 36 skirt lifters in a row. I like variety- mixing up types, sizes and styles. Guess it's the ADD in me.

 

This really says it all.

In the Ocala National Forest a couple of years ago we did a power trail of ammo cans....no kidding. After several hours of this I was looking forward to a hanging micro. The boredom was broken up by numerous bear hunters asking us if we had seen any and also asking about panthers.

I think variety is the spice of life.

Whoever said the PT was boring because of the container? PT's suck no matter what the container is.

Exactly. It's a power trail. Boring!

Edited August 12, 2013 by Clan Riffster

[+Trucker Lee]

Personally, I am against throwdowns. Maybe it's just me but if I can't find a cache, I don't automatically assume that it's gone missing. Instead I tend to think that that particular cache has gotten the better of me. If I spent a decent time looking for it, I will log it as a DNF and then put it on my watchlist. If someone subsequently finds it after me, then I will sometimes make a second attempt at it.

 

I think the only time a "throwdown" is ok is either if you have contacted the CO and gotten approval or if you have found it in the past and know for certain that it is missing (even then you should probably get the CO's ok first).

 

Thank you, I couldn't have said it any better!

 

I would be appreciative for a replacement container,,, if you contact me first or if you had found the cache previously. Otherwise, please don't try to do me any favors. I can't tell ya'll how many times i've gotten dnfs on some of our caches but then found that they were in place when i checked on them. I DO NOT want two cache containers (the one you threwdown is most likely inferior anyway) at my cache site. Just let me know with a dnf log and i'll check into it.

 

And by the way, come on people. Even if you throw down a container, how do you claim a find on a cache you didn't find in the first place?

Agree entirely. And because I can be a real horse's patoot, I will take the inferior container to the trash can, and delete the found logs of whomever left it. Find my cache or log DNF.

[Clan Riffster]

I have, however, put down a replacement when someone disabled their cache because it was in fact missing but they were out of province and couldn't replace it.

As long as you had the cache owner's explicit permission, prior to doing so, there is nothing wrong with that.