Something that bothers me about hiding a cache...

October 8, 2003

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cautious about getting as accurate Coord's as possible. WHY?

There ain't a single person here that won't say, "It's the hunt"....yet we are ALL desperately trying to be more accurate! ????

Seems odd to me, but that's just me. For...truth be known, I am just as hyprocritcal, maybe more. I want PINPOINT accuracy but I don't want ANYONE walking dead straight and standing directly on my cache. - JamesJM

October 8, 2003

Yeah I'm the same way. My GPS does averaging, so whenever I place a cache, I sit there and let the GPS average for about a minute or so to get an accurate as possible reading.

October 8, 2003

Not only do I let the GPSr do its averaging. But I will revisit the area three or four times - (different times of the day on different days) - and average the averages. It has got to be my lab pratices coming into play. NEVER trust the 1st set of data and NEVER trust just one set!

And If cachers are walking straight to the cache, then they are missing the surrounding and need to get their head out of the 3 x 3 inch display on their GPSr. ~ MHO

Bob ~

Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese...

Isn't the best way to save face to keep the lower part shut?...Stephen Wright

38.2k · October 9, 2003

If they are too accurate, where's the fun? I take one reading and go with it. I rarely have any complaints about my coordinates.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

4.8k · October 9, 2003

I lean towards the obsessive side too. I'll take several readings over a couple of days (usually the day I scout, and the day I plant).

I just got an email yesterday from my newest cache, and the FTF couldn't find it. He was just verifying the final coords (a multi puzzle). I felt so bad I'm going out now to verify the coords and to make sure it wasn't plundered.

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. The rest go geocaching.

October 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
If they are too accurate, where's the fun? I take one reading and go with it. I rarely have any complaints about my coordinates.

Point noted. But if the GPS system had not been de-militarized (and the accuracy improved from 300 to less than 10 ~ at times) would we be hiding and seeking? The accuracy is build into to the system. I remember using a friends GPSr in 1997 for hunting and thinking I could do as good with maps and a compass.

Bob ~

Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese...

Isn't the best way to save face to keep the lower part shut?...Stephen Wright

October 9, 2003

Yes it's about the hunt, but within reason!

If you believe 'loose' coordinates are fine, start caching by simply knowing which park the cache is in and start hunting without any GPS!

I'm sorry, but the fun comes from knowing there's a good chance of finding it. Bad coordinates sometimes make it impossible, and certainly FAR less pleasurable.

Sure, there would be little point if the coords were 100% accurate to the inch--unless you still couldn't find it! Now that would be a good hide I'd enjoy seeking. Perhaps above you in the tree? Perhaps perfectly camo'd?

Ok, think about it this way? Is it fun to play a game such as chess against someone you know you can easily beat? Would it be fun to play against Garry Kasparov? How about someone equal to your level? Ah ha! Inaccurate coords take it away from the realm of feasibility...

Back to reality, I can tell you my least favorite hunts were those when I spent hours and multiple trips searching in areas where the cache wasn't but the coords were. That's when you appreciate good hints. Since most of my finds have been without decrypting the hints, I guess things are pretty good the way they are!

Enjoy,

Randy

9.4k · October 9, 2003

I walk a circle about 20 feet around my cache, taking waypoints at the N,E,S,W compass points and several others. I average the coords and verify the new waypoint is in the middle of my circle. Then I walk away from the cache and set a GOTO and see where it leads me.

I'm also one of those cachers that tries really hard to get to the 'zero' spot when hunting a cache before looking around for it. Many times, the kids will find it first. I just tell them 'It's within 20 feet of here' and they go looking. I stand in one spot and look around for likely spots.

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

October 9, 2003

I like to average multiple readings taken on at least two different days.

Of course, I still get people logging and emailing that their GPSr read .002' different than my coordinates. I have stopped pointing out that it is only ten to twelve feet difference, probably well within the accuracy of their reading.

I generally only post coordinates if my difference is over twice the stated accuracy of my GPSr.

Dave_W6DPS

My two cents worth, refunds available on request. (US funds only)

October 9, 2003

wow, I thought I was picky about this.

Usually what I do is mark and then walk 100 feet away, or a little further. If my mark takes me back to within a few feet that's 'good'. I'm done. If it doesn't I remark and try again.

I put more into it if I'm under trees as I do lose a good signal pretty easily with my Vista. - JamesJM

October 11, 2003

coordinates? Nah... Example of one of my hints..."Under here, over there"

--------------------------------------------------

When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

October 12, 2003

I'm glad tha most of you are picky, I don't have the cash to have a GPS that will take me to the inch, I have a magellin sportstrax and garmin etrex and they some times tell me 7ft away and i'm standing on it. Yes, I love the hunt, but I love it more if its been done in a new/exciting way, not because the coord. are off.

October 12, 2003

For the most part I let my GPS take me as close as it can, then I start to search. I have the cheap yeller E-Trex, so in heavy cover it seems to go crazy. I also helped my brother set a cache, he is using a Magellan 315, I took my Garmin and I was showing to be about 70' away, We went ahead and set the cache to his GPS, and when cachers starting finding it they too said they were about 70' away. So which one do yuo believe. It's al to do with the weather conditions, what type of GPS the person is using (for example Magellan prety much does not even claim the 315 or the 320 anymore) to set the cache & what type of cover there is.

"If you don't know where you're going, you'll wind up somewhere else" ......Yogi Berra

October 12, 2003

Does weather play apart of this or is just clouds in general??

October 12, 2003

I come at the cache site 3 times from various angles till I get the same readings.

My experience is, the same cache recieves all the following messages, " co-ords dead on ! "

" co-ords seem to be off xxx feet " and " found it with a little looking."

just depends on the day, cacher, gps, and mood of the cache gods.

Two roads diverged in the woods and I,

I took the one less traveled,

and that is how I found the cache.

October 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
If they are too accurate, where's the fun? I take one reading and go with it. I rarely have any complaints about my coordinates.

Amen Brudda, the fun is getting to the area and then finding it! Makes the find even more sweeter. I used to worry about the accuracy of my caches coordinates but now I take a reading once and go with it!

Darkmoon

"After you've heard two eyewitness accounts of an automobile accident, you begin to worry about history" -Anonymous

October 13, 2003

I always figured that the reason my GPS didn't have absolute pinpoint accuracy was because the sheer mass of my belly was throwing the satellite orbits off a little bit. Any motion on my part would cause their orbits to drift a little bit. If I could just get out a bit more, I'm sure that would cease to be a problem.

I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me. - Noel Coward (...particularly off of a short pier - The Annoyed Man's corollary)

October 13, 2003

do any of you guys use the accuracy field of the gps? or do you just use the actual number given and ignore the accuracy?

2.3k · October 14, 2003

Multi-caches with projections of distance, bearings, etc. need to be placed carefully and checked. I am placing a complicated multi with three waypoints and I have been working in the field for several weeks laying out the waypoints. I have checked them several times with two different brand GPSrs. When I am comfortable with the waypoints, I go out and do the cache as a finder and see if it works like it should. Did that yesterday and now have to go back and place everything.

4.5k · October 14, 2003

I take a few readings when the EPE is under 20 feet. When I get home, I take the middle readings for longitude and latitude. No one's complained.

Alan

October 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by EScout:
Multi-caches with projections of distance, bearings, etc. need to be placed carefully and checked. I am placing a complicated multi with three waypoints and I have been working in the field for several weeks laying out the waypoints.

Check out Pine Mountain Ridge Runner which has a dozen waypoints scattered over 15 miles. Distance and bearings are dead on. Amazing work by Logscaler & Red.

November 4, 2003

"I want PINPOINT accuracy but I don't want ANYONE walking dead straight and standing directly on my cache." - JamesJM

I say if your cache is worth its weight in um, anything, then good coordinates should be a sign of confidence in a good hide. I hate walking 2 miles into the woods to find a cache that's just laying in an obvious tree stump.

November 26, 2003

Once we hid a fairly easy cache amid an office area. We averaged about four readings, most from about 15 feet away, & we've gotten remarks that the coords were right on. Weird.

November 26, 2003

When I get home, I take the middle readings for longitude and latitude.

Well that's smart. Same net effect as averaging without any of the math!

about 15 feet away, & we've gotten remarks that the coords were right on. Weird.

Huh? Weird? How?

20' away is "right on" where GPS is concerned. Since you're coords could bring them 5' past or 35' shy, most of the time that'll be "right on".

(Remember it varies day to day, which is why averaging over multiple days is optimal.)

Enjoy,

Randy

2.3k · November 26, 2003

I have had only 1 instance where the GPS said the cache was 1' away and I looked down to see the cache at my side. (used a Mag 315 GPS, by the way). Of course, the readings will be different between the hider and the finder and never be dead on. These days my Platinum will most always OVERSHOOT the cache by about 15-20', unless I approach the area very slowly, but I still manage. Most of the time when I get to the cache area, I put down the GPS and try to think where I would hide it.

Edited November 26, 2003 by TEAM 360

November 26, 2003

Huh? Weird? How?

I suppose I thought it was weird how some take so much time on getting the right coords, we took three minutes, and had pretty much the same results

20' away is "right on" where GPS is concerned. Since you're coords could bring them 5' past or 35' shy, most of the time that'll be "right on".

In my opinion, you hit the head on the nail.

December 8, 2003

It is interesting to see the comments here about GPSrs various accuracy. I quite often leave my 12XL turned on in my home with an external antenna and power source. What's interesting about this is the track my house (not mobile home) will make over a period of a few days. This of course will vary with time of year. If my home will move around in this manner I can't help but think my caches may well wonder off as well. However I will typically do a 10 min. average for posting.

December 10, 2003

I just got my Magellan Sportrak in the mail the other day. I ran out and started checking a few of my hides to fix the coords. I have gotten a few comments over the past few months that some of my hides were a little off. I hid those caches with my little yellow etrex. The couple of caches I have so far checked were off... apparently there is a joke among the Magellan people that Garmin's are generally 30 feet off. So far I have found that to be true with my hides. But a few of my garmin hides are fine.

I like the one thought from above that being too accurate takes away some of the fun. I have to agree with that. But at the same time I do want to be able to give good numbers for my hides.

Happy Numbers Everyone!

1.4k · December 11, 2003

I have gotten a few comments over the past few months that some of my hides were a little off. I hid those caches with my little yellow etrex. The couple of caches I have so far checked were off...

A man with a GPS knows where he is. A man with two GPSs is never sure....

24.7k · December 11, 2003

I've stood 20' off to one side of the cache just to keep a cache from being too easy. No complaints on accuracy though, go figure.

January 1, 2004

For the last several years locally, we have told people to expect such an error that you should plan on searching a radius of 60 feet from your ground zero. However, I do strive to get the most accurate coordinate that I can. If I can get 3D differential lock, I'll use it.

I was on one recently where I measured a 128 foot error. Part of the reason was leaf cover when the cache was placed. I took a careful aveage and when home and comparing them on Mapsource, the difference was actually 171 feet! Many logs mention the frustration of this huge error. In such situations, I believe a useful hint is mandatory. Or, some compass work from an identifiable object. When I find a large error, unless the cache is pretty easy to find, I will post either my averaged coordinates or what to add or subtract in the case of an offset cache.

1.4k · January 2, 2004

I was on one recently where I measured a 128 foot error. Part of the reason was leaf cover when the cache was placed. I took a careful aveage and when home and comparing them on Mapsource, the difference was actually 171 feet! Many logs mention the frustration of this huge error.

What you might do is get out somewhere where you can get a good lock and then carefully measure from the known point to the cache location. In fact that might be an interesting idea for a cache. You'd have to take readings from certain spots and have to go at a fixed angle from there. Two such lines would intersect at the cache.

January 4, 2004

Oddly enough, even though I have the lowest of the low, a Garmin Geko 101, I have never had any trouble finding any caches, and the worst reading I've had is 20 feet off, which is well within the margin of error.

There has been one cache so far that I was unable to locate. The coordinates said it should be about 15 feet out into a lake. The next guy, who did find it, also said that his readings indicated that the cache was in the drink!

James

January 4, 2004

Yeah I'm the same way. My GPS does averaging, so whenever I place a cache, I sit there and let the GPS average for about a minute or so to get an accurate as possible reading.

That's exactly what I do. Yet I've had someone find my one of my caches and say my coords. are wrong and then they posted their coords.

If we all have a X +/- error, how can they say that? My feeling is they can't and shouldn't post their coords.

January 6, 2004

After posting the wrong coords for a cache by transposing one number and wasting few cachers a few hours of looking, I still sweat it a little until a FTF has been posted.

When I have been lucky enough to find an area with an abundance of good hiding spots I like to be as accurate as possible by averaging several coords. For my easier urban micros with limited hiding locations I have posted “sloppy” coords and let the cachers find it.

Only once have I mentioned in a log I thought the coords were off. My thinking being if I found it how could the coords be off?

January 8, 2004

Is it bad to post coordinates when finding a cache that is located two or three times as far away as the GPSr accuracy reading?

Edited January 8, 2004 by Zinnware

January 8, 2004

I have a terrible habit when using the Etrex of 'hunching' over it. I normally end up putting the thing on the ground and then watching the DTG decrease until it looks more stable. Sometimes, I get more than 60' difference ! :rolleyes:

Andy

1.2k · January 12, 2004

I found a cache today 80+ feet off...

I wish the owner was as anal as I (we) seem to be.

Ed

Edited January 12, 2004 by Ed & Julie

January 19, 2004

i aggree with briansnat on this one. I take my reading after letting the GPSr sit for a couple of minutes then i mark my waypoint. after i do this i'll walk a distance away andbring up that waypoint and let the gps take me back to it. i've only ever had one complaint about my coordinates and the next finder said the numbers werew right on. i figure everyone uses different equipment and just because you hid it on a perfect no cloud in the sky day doesn't mean that's when someone will look for it. if i follow my procedeure and it takes me back within 20 feet of where i put it i figure i'm good at that distance you should be looking for the cache and not at the gps. just my two cents.

1.2k · January 19, 2004

I've stood 20' off to one side of the cache just to keep a cache from being too easy. No complaints on accuracy though, go figure.

What's the point of posting coordinates if you purposely hide your cache somewhere other than said coordinates?

If you want to make it more challenging, I suggest making a more clever hide and increasing the difficulty level, not frustrating cachers with bogus coordinates. JMHO.

Ed (of Ed & Julie)

January 19, 2004

I walk a circle about 20 feet around my cache, taking waypoints at the N,E,S,W compass points and several others. I average the coords and verify the new waypoint is in the middle of my circle. Then I walk away from the cache and set a GOTO and see where it leads me. <BR><BR>I'm also one of those cachers that tries really hard to get to the 'zero' spot when hunting a cache before looking around for it. Many times, the kids will find it first. I just tell them 'It's within 20 feet of here' and they go looking. I stand in one spot and look around for likely spots.<BR><BR>Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

Tose are the coolest smilies i have seen yet, how do you get them?

Edited January 19, 2004 by programmer64

January 20, 2004

i just hid one today in the middle of a snowstorm. i did my usual routine which i posted here earlier. came home posted the cache and about 3 hours later had a first finder. the snow had covered our tracks and the finders gps had him @ 10 feet.

January 20, 2004

I haven't hidden any yet, but in my searching what I try to do is take the readings I get off my GPS and post them in my log so that others can get an idea of what sort of variants they can expect. So far, nothing I have seeked out has been very far off at all. I'm getting on average of a 5 foot radius of where I'm suppose to be. But from my understanding, you'll get different readings from different gps units as well as different readings in different weather conditions, but none so bad as to make it impossible to find. Good cordinates are a must because you don't want to have to search a 1/4 square mile area to find something, but at the same time you don't want to be able to walk right on top of it either.... It's the hunt. At least that's how I feel as a hunter.

January 20, 2004

i figured our weather was just about as bad as you could get today that's why i hid it we had to walk accross an open field to get to the woods where we hid it and our tracks were hard to see when we came back out about 45 minutes after we walked in. like i said we had a first finder about 3 hours after we posted and using our coordinates he said his gps had him 2 10 feet when he found it. i let my gps sit for about 5 minutes while we were hiding it and then marked the waypoint.

January 21, 2004

I figger if the GPSr gets me within 50 ft, I'm fine. Ya gatta start thinkin' like a CACHER!!!

January 22, 2004

Unlike Dieseldoc, I am not a good geocacher. I get frustrated and mad when a geocache's coordinate's are 50 ft. off. I prefer coordinateds that are around 20 ft. off. But I guess I'm a hippocrit, because I own a few caches that are usually 50 ft. off. However, that's the whole fun thing about geocaching. The joy and happiness I experience when I find a cache that is around 50 ft. off. So i sort of have to agree with Dieseldoc.

Environmental Explorer - Jdrummerlax

Make a difference - save the environment <_<

3.1k · January 22, 2004

Averaging doesn't work if you aren't getting a strong satellite signal. Setting a gps on the ground and allowing it to average usually ends up being way off since the signal isn't strong so it's guessing where it is.

I hold the gps high above the target, let it average a few seconds, move it and put it back and redo this a couple of times. If the readings stay the same each time I move it back I know I'm there.

January 23, 2004

One interesting thing to try at a geo-event is to give everyone the same coordinates and see where everybody is standing after a few minutes. Everyone quickly gets the idea- accuracy is a goal and the fun is in the finding...

January 24, 2004

Accuracy is a gole, an unobtainable gole! But somthing worth striving for.

You can try, try, try, average, average, average, and when you approach from a different direction it's wrong anyway.

I have found caches that were well over 100 feet off ground zero and as long as it's not in the rocks it was still great fun.

What do they say any day caching is better than any day at the computer.

January 26, 2004

I have hidden three caches. Two traditional, the third is a mystery cache of which I am just one of the finders (I really do wish someone else would go after this one). But, I have several more planned. To hide a cache I use two gps units, one is my daughters, or soon to be. I'll find the "SPOT" take a reading and then sit tight for a couple of minutes so the units can settle down, once settled I'll take that reading. Then I'll do the same again three or four times. I then average the readings. I figure that is good enough.

Now judging that my two caches have been found and no one is complaining about them not being where they are supposed to be I guess I have done a good job. I have gotten several comments telling me I am demented, sick, evil or otherwise a bit crazy for placing one cache where it is. All very nice compliments I assume. The problem ain't the coords. The seekers are trying to get to it from the wrong angle, not my fault. Not my fault either if the multi-flora roses eat them alive. I think the problem is that they get to a certain spot and they can see the cache, but they cannot easily get to it from that location. So... They try to. I am amazed that several people have gone in through the stickers, I never would have. There is an easier way in, which they see once they get to the cache, one just has to look a bit further.

So, be as acurate as you can when you hide a cache. But be clever in where you hide them. Just because they get to the SPOT doesn't mean it has to bite them on leg. Accurate coords + hidden well = great cache !!!

Something that bothers me about hiding a cache...

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