Solved by someone else

[+hal-an-tow]

I saw the 'Whitespace' thread (already solved it , but don't ask , my lips are sealed ... still chipping doggedly away at Werewolf too) and wondered what folk think about people who cannot quickly solve puzzles themselves going to facebook , local forums etc to get solutions ?

 

Personally I wouldn't want to be given a solution , I would not feel that I'd earned the smiley properly . There are plenty of tough puzzles around that I know I will probably never be able to solve , but why cheat ? Surely the pleasure of logging a puzzle is partly in having pitted yourself against the cunning of the CO and finally managing to crack the thing . If someone else told me how to solve it I'd feel like a kid cheating on a spelling test - no progress made , just a diminished sense of self respect , and a guilty little secret .

[+simplysup]

When I'm stuck, I'm happy to accept hints and help; I had to do so on both Whitespace and Werewolf. Without the help of posts at the NE and NW forums I would probably have given up.

 

My usual course of action when stuck is to contact the CO for help; describing what I've tried, what I think, whatever, and happily accepting any help they're willing to provide.

 

But to answer your question - no, I don't just want to be given/find on the Interweb the solution.

 

Edit to add: enjoyed finding/not finding hedgehogs this afternoon

Edited July 30, 2013 by simplysup

[+Seaglass Pirates]

It's all about the numbers to some....

....... Of course inactivated geocoins left in there - gloves off lol.

[+Mallah]

Could equally ask you if you always cache on your own, and if not do you log as found those that were found by others on your walk?

[+Seaglass Pirates]

Hmmm that's an interesting question. If we go with the folks or friends we amalgamate into a team name. For two reasons. Reduce footfall right at the cache to reduce a cachers trail and save time and also to reduce log space used for the CO. Think that's fair enough. Also take turns finding them etc.

 

But if we split up to reach a cache that maybe all the team are not happy with or capable of - sheer drops or steep climbs, then one from each caching main group attends the cache. Have been caching with a friend who's legs just collapsed as we neared the edge. Could not shop shaking. We were 100 feet away so we brought the cache to them and they signed the log.

 

During a popular event if a series has been placed for it, quite often the cache is out in the hands of other attendees already. Had it last weekend. Arrived at GZ to find two cachers with the log in their hands. It took us an hour to drive to the series. I'm not going to say "oh no it's fine we will let you hide it and we'll walk back the 8 mile and get it another time lol. Well some might say they would. And I would say another word ......

[+Happy Humphrey]

It's a good question. The answer lies in the basic purpose of the game; some sort of challenge that see you outdoors looking for a cache. It's not a competition against others, hence the lack of rules about whether you need to prove that you did actually find the cache as intended. It's a challenge to yourself.

 

However, the satisfaction of a cache find is more or less diluted by the style you used. So if it's a difficult puzzle and you just get given the answer: well, you don't get much satisfaction at all from logging the cache. If you found a few hints, or if you got a pointer from the CO then the satisfaction will also be diminished. It's up to you to judge how much you allow the cache to be "spoilt". So for Werewolf, you might get something to start you off if you're stuck, and it's still worthwhile. But if someone just sends you the coordinates or details of how to solve it I'm sure you'd feel that logging the cache is a waste of time, as the whole point of the challenge is to see if you can crack the mystery. Nice puzzle, by the way.

 

It's the same if it's a traditional cache really, and you turn up with a team. You have to judge how much the "find" is spoilt when someone else passes you the cache.

[+Amberel]

...

 

But if we split up to reach a cache that maybe all the team are not happy with or capable of - sheer drops or steep climbs, then one from each caching main group attends the cache. Have been caching with a friend who's legs just collapsed as we neared the edge. Could not shop shaking. We were 100 feet away so we brought the cache to them and they signed the log.

 

...

Everyone has their own "rules", it doesn't really matter to anyone else what they are, as long as people understand there is no meaning whatsoever in comparing any statistics.

 

For group finds I'm happy to log it if someone else finds it, provided I took part in the search, other than in the unusual event that I really believe I would NEVER have found it myself. But irrespective of who finds it, I have to personally either recover or replace the cache, or be completely certain that I could have done (e.g. no point in having to prove to myself I could reach down to a routine base of post cache). For puzzles I accept help, but to log it I should have made a "significant contribution" to the solution.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+hal-an-tow]

Could equally ask you if you always cache on your own, and if not do you log as found those that were found by others on your walk?

Strangely enough , I prefer to cache alone , for exactly that reason : I get no satisfaction from someone else finding the cache for me . At nearby events which include a cache loop I tend to drop by for the social part , then return a day or two later to do the walk . I'd agree with what Seaglass Pirates say about more distant events , I'd not log a DNF or write a note if I walked up and 'found' the cache in someones hands , but neither would I particularly enjoy that 'find'. Also I've used a PAF a grand total of twice (0.1% of finds ), despite having plenty available . If it's too hard for me to find , I don't find it. No problem , log a DNF and move on .

 

A lot of people cache in groups as a social thing , thats what makes them happy , and it's one of the nice things about caching , there are many ways to play the game , you choose what suits you . Whilst a lot of cachers who have a high smiley count do seem to habitually cache in groups , it is interesting to note that the top 3 UK cachers (last time I looked ) are essentially solo operators . Which reminds me , hello Simplysup ! Glad you liked the hogs - I'm not sure why Harry evades so many searchers ,maybe it is in an untypical spot : I set it before I'd found many caches .

 

So for me the game is not 'all about the numbers' , but all about the personal satisfaction of managing to find the cache . If the search is preceded by a puzzle all the better , but I want to do the solving myself . Hints from the CO , knowing teasing comments dropped by previous finders , little clues in the logs , those are all fair game to my mind , but getting given the solution ? The puzzle is devalued , it may as well be a 1* trad. How anyone can derive any sense of achievement from that defeats me . You might as well cheat at patience !

 

I'm told there is a website somewhere in Europe where cachers join up , and gain points for giving puzzle solutions , which are then available to the rest of the members , who can gain more points by finding those puzzles ...

As the exam papers used to say : Discuss !

[+hal-an-tow]

It's a good question. The answer lies in the basic purpose of the game; some sort of challenge that see you outdoors looking for a cache. It's not a competition against others, hence the lack of rules about whether you need to prove that you did actually find the cache as intended. It's a challenge to yourself.

 

However, the satisfaction of a cache find is more or less diluted by the style you used. So if it's a difficult puzzle and you just get given the answer: well, you don't get much satisfaction at all from logging the cache. If you found a few hints, or if you got a pointer from the CO then the satisfaction will also be diminished. It's up to you to judge how much you allow the cache to be "spoilt". So for Werewolf, you might get something to start you off if you're stuck, and it's still worthwhile. But if someone just sends you the coordinates or details of how to solve it I'm sure you'd feel that logging the cache is a waste of time, as the whole point of the challenge is to see if you can crack the mystery. Nice puzzle, by the way.

 

It's the same if it's a traditional cache really, and you turn up with a team. You have to judge how much the "find" is spoilt when someone else passes you the cache.

 

Perfectly put Mr. Bogart : "The satisfaction of a cache find is more or less diluted by the style you used " encapsulates my view precisely . Thanks for that .

[+Mallah]

You seem to have answered your own question then.

[+StripyJules]

Going back to the original topic of getting help to solve a puzzle: nobody would want to be handed the solution on a plate, but I don't see being given a hint or guidance as an issue; the source is immaterial.

 

Either the CO helps you out (or doesn't), or another cacher helps you out (or doesn't) or in the absence of help from there an online forum helps you out (or doesn't). As long as the actual solution isn't just handed over or put out in the public domain I can't see the harm.

 

Can't see it being any different to phoning-a-friend from the field when you're at GZ and can't find a physical cache...

[+Shanghai Joe]

From what I've seen on the FB page it appears that quite a few people are asking about puzzle caches outside of their area, presumably to learn how to solve them. I'm sometimes tempted myself, I sometimes (often!) look at a puzzle cache page and think it was written in encrypted Serbo-Croat by a blind drunk Russian using a Greek dictionary.

[team tisri]

Going back to the original topic of getting help to solve a puzzle: nobody would want to be handed the solution on a plate, but I don't see being given a hint or guidance as an issue; the source is immaterial.

 

Some people do want to be handed the solution on a plate. Sometimes it's because they just want to find everything without doing any work, other times it's because they're headed to an area where they've solved 9 of 10 puzzles in a series and would rather just be given the 10th answer than leave one behind.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

From what I've seen on the FB page it appears that quite a few people are asking about puzzle caches outside of their area, presumably to learn how to solve them. I'm sometimes tempted myself, I sometimes (often!) look at a puzzle cache page and think it was written in encrypted Serbo-Croat by a blind drunk Russian using a Greek dictionary.

 

We've done that cache

[+Original A1]

I love puzzle caches (or "Mystery", as they seem to prefer to call them). Being of limited Mathematical ability (actually, probably better than I think I am!), I struggle with things like base numbers or equations, but the beauty of puzzle caches is that there are so many diverse ones out there. As I logged at the weekend, I did one near Perth which was simple yet effective; it involved homework before leaving, and fieldwork at the solved-at-home co-ords, plus a nice wee wander to find GZ.

 

About 80% of my caching is done alone and there's undoubtedly a real sense of satisfaction in solving a puzzle and making the find, and I definitely prefer to solve them myself. However, I'm not too proud to ask for help if I'm stuck, and because sometimes I cache with others, it would be downright churlish to go on a walk with lots of caches of which some might be puzzles I've not solved myself and not log them too.

 

Last year, I joined forces with another couple of cachers to do the Strelitz series in Perthshire. Whilst both of them are caching buddies, one of them doesn't usually do puzzles (although his stats still contain quite a high number of them - strange that!) and they both openly admitted that they were hoping I'd do most of the solving, which I did - all but 4 of them, which they solved. Their strengths were in loving a long walk with the dogs (which meant that I slowed the pace somewhat!), but that's what teamwork's about - playing to strengths and supporting the weaknesses.

 

There are some who liberally give out answers when only asked to give a hint; there are others who ask for answers without bothering to work things out for themselves. As an owner, I'll tend to offer a clue but don't really want to give the full co-ords outright; although my puzzles and multis have Geochecker, I'll confirm if they're correct, or if a digit is wrong, help there. There's a cache near me which I found without asking anyone for help, without solving the puzzle per se, but by using initiative (and it's not the first I've done that way). I got satisfaction in finding them, but not the same sense of satisfaction as if I'd solved the puzzle - was I cheating? I'm not sure I was, because I was using another method of finding. But it's bounced back on me because that same puzzle has a bonus which is only achieved by the same method and referring to the solution of the original cache. So I don't imagine I'll ever find the bonus, but nor will I be asking for the solution. I see that as my duty to solve it at some point.

 

At the end of the day, it IS like sitting an exam at school; you can cheat, if asking for answers to puzzles is "cheating", but ultimately, the only person you're cheating is you. For me, the primary objective is enjoyment. And I enjoy putting the old grey cells to the test every bit as much as I do in making the find.

[+Amberel]

... because sometimes I cache with others, it would be downright churlish to go on a walk with lots of caches of which some might be puzzles I've not solved myself and not log them too.

If you want to log them it's up to you, that's fine, but it's not churlish to refrain from logging one you haven't solved. I did the same myself a few days ago, I did sign the log but won't be logging it online unless and until I can solve it myself - I don't regard that as churlish in any way whatsoever.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+zarbi&zarbibird]

We rarely even look at puzzle cache pages as we don't seem to have the brain power, or the right sort of brain power, to have any idea how to solve them! Our rule is never to ask for help We also always cache alone, it's just the way we prefer to play the game and we have never phoned a friend. (The fact that we don't have anyone's phone number is neither here nor there!) As others have said, we all play the game differently.

[+Not Guilty]

We rarely even look at puzzle cache pages as we don't seem to have the brain power, or the right sort of brain power, to have any idea how to solve them! Our rule is never to ask for help We also always cache alone, it's just the way we prefer to play the game and we have never phoned a friend. (The fact that we don't have anyone's phone number is neither here nor there!) As others have said, we all play the game differently.

Please don't think Im mocking you, I have asked for hints/help on more than one occasion, I do cache alone (apart from the geo Dog)

Im not really sure how WE Cache alone equates to alone?

As a couple is fine but not really alone is it?

[+Oxford Stone]

I got immense satisfaction from re-visiting a puzzle cache page near Windsor this morning (Lone Granger) and suddenly seeing the light.

There are puzzles I've got / given nudges on; ones I've short-circuited too (a D5 in Marlow gets a reference on another cache so I went from there rather than tackle some code that meant nothing to me; another has a hint that along with logs referring to muggles just allows you to go straight to it, despite a long and elaborate puzzle).

I think it's a shame when people write ?s off altoghether as they are all different. I'm on a mission to drive down my trad % in my stats (89.75% and falling).

As my 3 puzzles in Abingdon are getting fairly low footfall, I'm thinking of putting an extra hint for A in B, B in C and C in A (and maybe all 3 in my tree-climb cache); is that allowed? All 4 caches in question are quite high D so I don't think I'd be selling them short.