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How long do your TBs last before vanishing?


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We've launched 3 TBs, but they always vanish in the end. Our most recent actually lasted 18 months or so, but does look like it's gone now (comments saying there's no TBs in the cache even though 2 or 3 listed).

Is that usual? I'd probably feel better about it if a typical lifespan was a year or so :)

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I have had two or three that have vanished from the first cache they were dropped into, and others that are still roaming around after 5 or 6 years.

 

This one disappeared in 2008 and after a year I re-released ir with a similar gecko toy attached. Yesterday I received an email from a cacher to let me know she'd found the original gecko in a cache in Devon - so never lose hope ;)

 

Geefer's ghost

 

 

MrsB

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I have released 2. The first one in Dec 2005. this came home in Oct 2007 (just less than 2 years) with 33,062 miles on the clock having taken a very roundabout route to New Zealand and back

 

The other was released in Nov 2009. It vanished in July 2010 only to reappear nearly 3 years later in April this year and is still traveling - in Germany, with 3,591 miles on the clock

 

It just goes to show that a TB can vanish for a long time and reappear again so don't give up hope yet.

 

However, I do get the impression from this forum and talking to other cachers that the loss rate is higher now than it was a few years ago.

Edited by Just Roger
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Thanks - certainly my "current" (just lost!) one had a big gap where I thought it had gone - a few months - then reappeared.

 

I wonder if people just keep them, or maybe lose them between grabbing one and then not getting around to going caching again...

 

We pick them up fairly infrequently as we don't get chance to do much caching- if there's a local one I can pick up and I know I'm going on holiday (and likely to find at least one while away) I might take it though.

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We had a TB bought for us as a gift for putting up another visiting cacher. It went into a cache at Tintagel, was moved almost right away and there it stayed with them for months, still doing zero mileage. After an email asking that it be moved on we got an abusive email back. We persisted and eventually it was dropped in a cache. Another newbie picked it up and ... now it may be a year on, and they still have it. We have emailed many times back and forth and it has become a bit of a joke. They insist they will move it on soon and still they have not. They apologise profusely but still keep it.

 

Oh and I see quite a few reviewers notes saying "because the person has not logged on for some time" and we also see this as a reason to give up on a TB. Its not necessary to log on to geocaching.com to geocache. If you log on via the app (iphone at least) it will not register your visit on the .com site. I have seen accounts where it says - last logged on - never and yet they have a cache count.

 

Another was picked up and the person had it for months. Months and months. It was then dormant for a while and so we emailed and it was ignored. Eventually after we persisted the reply was that they were sure they had placed it out whilst on holiday. And promptly placed it in a cache. Backdating the date. No one has seen it since.

 

Another was sent out (geocoin) and has been picked up by a newbie. No reply to email asking that it be moved on as yet.

 

So far we are at 50% loss rate. Some may turn up again but who knows. There really should be some sort of action that can be taken to ensure prompt and proper treatment of someone else's property. The pinned link above offers advice but its not really an deterrent. Threat of membership lock out for a month would lead to all sorts of naus, and for our part it is mainly newbies with our TB's causing issues and so this would not work properly.

 

You can however if your TB goes missing report it at TB rescue.com Once registered there someone will volunteer to check the cache for you and report back if it is still there. However it does not allow you to register a TB missing if it is logged with a person. We have had two TB's found by registering them there. And our folks have as Ms B has said, had a TB turn up. The latest was missing from 2008 and is now moving again as of a few months ago.

 

So it seems - lap of the gods. Oh and a newbie may pick it up as a swap and not realise what it even is. This could easily be solved by creating a questionnaire during registration. The correct answer must be chosen for them to progress to the point where their account will allow them to cache. I have seen it on other sites so no reason why it couldn't be implemented and should include how to treat coins and TB's correctly. Oh I am sure someone will pipe up and go on about how this would be extra work for a volunteer brigade or some such. But it would certainly reduce the teething problems newbies and others suffer alike. And that can only add to the attractiveness of a hobby.

 

Good Luck

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(comments saying there's no TBs in the cache even though 2 or 3 listed).

 

Please mark your TB "missing". This will take it out of the cache's inventory, where it is not, and put it into an Unknown location. It won't make the TB any more difficult for the next person to log it.

 

It may well show up again whenever someone notices it, assuming it's been picked up and not logged. It could be in another cache, or in someone's hands.

 

I've had TBs and coins reappear after 3 years. Generally, they've just disappeared again ;-)... but it's interesting while it lasts.

 

I've recently found a TB that hadn't moved in 3 years, it was last logged into a cache NOT the one I found it in. I also found a couple of coins that that been Marked Missing from caches in Europe 3 years back. All 3 of these were out in rather remote swamp caches in Florida, USA.

 

Now they're back in circulation - for a while ;-)

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Our Lego stormtrooper travelled round Germany for about a year but then was placed in a designated TB hotel. Nobody seemed to pick it up but then it was reported as missing. As the cache was'nt muggled we are still clinging to the fact fact that it may turn up. Missing for a year now so starting to lose hope.

 

I'm afraid you are better to set your expectations low and expect them to go missing. It's then a nice surprise when they survive. I see it almost like throwing a message in a bottle out to sea and seeing what might crop up.

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I've released over 120 travellers, and although I haven't checked recently I think that about 90% have gone missing. Needless to say, I haven't bothered much over the last couple of years!

 

There's always one or two that seem to survive come what may, but you have to release a lot to get the occasional success story. A bit sad really, particularly as many of these were rather nice geocoins that are now gathering dust in various thieves' dens.

 

Many disappear almost immediately, which is very disappointing. Then there's every other variation: some coming back from the dead, others lasting for several years without a hitch. It has to be said that geocachers are particularly light-fingered and cannot be trusted at all when it comes to anything nice and shiny (or cute and cuddly).

 

Nice examples of travel bugs being looked after include Crags, and Sickly Snowman.

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I've released over 120 travellers, and although I haven't checked recently I think that about 90% have gone missing. Needless to say, I haven't bothered much over the last couple of years!

 

There's always one or two that seem to survive come what may, but you have to release a lot to get the occasional success story. A bit sad really, particularly as many of these were rather nice geocoins that are now gathering dust in various thieves' dens.

 

Many disappear almost immediately, which is very disappointing. Then there's every other variation: some coming back from the dead, others lasting for several years without a hitch. It has to be said that geocachers are particularly light-fingered and cannot be trusted at all when it comes to anything nice and shiny (or cute and cuddly).

 

Nice examples of travel bugs being looked after include Crags, and Sickly Snowman.

 

That's slightly depressing. Just used my secret code to get a further 15% off my purchase of some dog tags. Ordered 16 to get 15% and then added my code. The end result is that including shipping they come out at £2.60 each tag. And was already plotting what to do with my 8. And now I am wondering if its worth it lol.

 

Would disagree strongly that cachers are light fingered. I would say that I know cachers that have and still do pick them up in bulk and hold into them for weeks before even logging them.

 

I've grabbed a couple (even last week) and they were found in a cache miles from where they were supposed to be. Even found one next to a cache and had been there months when we found it. But in our experience by FAR the worst culprits and the ones that make me go - offs - is when I see its been picked up and look and see 12 caches found. 23 caches found. I kind of write it off then.

 

This is wrong. This apathy. These people should be pursued by some sort of authoritative mechanism within geocaching. And education of how TB's and coins are treated and logged etc should be locked into the registration process.

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I've released over 120 travellers, and although I haven't checked recently I think that about 90% have gone missing. Needless to say, I haven't bothered much over the last couple of years!

 

There's always one or two that seem to survive come what may, but you have to release a lot to get the occasional success story. A bit sad really, particularly as many of these were rather nice geocoins that are now gathering dust in various thieves' dens.

 

Many disappear almost immediately, which is very disappointing. Then there's every other variation: some coming back from the dead, others lasting for several years without a hitch. It has to be said that geocachers are particularly light-fingered and cannot be trusted at all when it comes to anything nice and shiny (or cute and cuddly).

 

Nice examples of travel bugs being looked after include Crags, and Sickly Snowman.

 

That's slightly depressing. Just used my secret code to get a further 15% off my purchase of some dog tags. Ordered 16 to get 15% and then added my code. The end result is that including shipping they come out at £2.60 each tag. And was already plotting what to do with my 8. And now I am wondering if its worth it lol.

 

Would disagree strongly that cachers are light fingered. I would say that I know cachers that have and still do pick them up in bulk and hold into them for weeks before even logging them.

 

I've grabbed a couple (even last week) and they were found in a cache miles from where they were supposed to be. Even found one next to a cache and had been there months when we found it. But in our experience by FAR the worst culprits and the ones that make me go - offs - is when I see its been picked up and look and see 12 caches found. 23 caches found. I kind of write it off then.

 

This is wrong. This apathy. These people should be pursued by some sort of authoritative mechanism within geocaching. And education of how TB's and coins are treated and logged etc should be locked into the registration process.

 

I do wonder if some people simply don't know what they are, and assume they are just a "cute swap" like other stuff? For instance, Chilli, the current "probably gone missing" one, has a little card saying where he wants to go, but maybe it needs big red letters "PLEASE DON'T KEEP ME, I'M MEANT TO MOVE FROM CACHE TO CACHE" :rolleyes:

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I've released over 120 travellers, and although I haven't checked recently I think that about 90% have gone missing. Needless to say, I haven't bothered much over the last couple of years!

 

There's always one or two that seem to survive come what may, but you have to release a lot to get the occasional success story. A bit sad really, particularly as many of these were rather nice geocoins that are now gathering dust in various thieves' dens.

 

Many disappear almost immediately, which is very disappointing. Then there's every other variation: some coming back from the dead, others lasting for several years without a hitch. It has to be said that geocachers are particularly light-fingered and cannot be trusted at all when it comes to anything nice and shiny (or cute and cuddly).

 

Nice examples of travel bugs being looked after include Crags, and Sickly Snowman.

 

That's slightly depressing. Just used my secret code to get a further 15% off my purchase of some dog tags. Ordered 16 to get 15% and then added my code. The end result is that including shipping they come out at £2.60 each tag. And was already plotting what to do with my 8. And now I am wondering if its worth it lol.

 

Would disagree strongly that cachers are light fingered. I would say that I know cachers that have and still do pick them up in bulk and hold into them for weeks before even logging them.

 

I've grabbed a couple (even last week) and they were found in a cache miles from where they were supposed to be. Even found one next to a cache and had been there months when we found it. But in our experience by FAR the worst culprits and the ones that make me go - offs - is when I see its been picked up and look and see 12 caches found. 23 caches found. I kind of write it off then.

 

This is wrong. This apathy. These people should be pursued by some sort of authoritative mechanism within geocaching. And education of how TB's and coins are treated and logged etc should be locked into the registration process.

 

I do wonder if some people simply don't know what they are, and assume they are just a "cute swap" like other stuff? For instance, Chilli, the current "probably gone missing" one, has a little card saying where he wants to go, but maybe it needs big red letters "PLEASE DON'T KEEP ME, I'M MEANT TO MOVE FROM CACHE TO CACHE" :rolleyes:

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I hear you. We set eight TBs off last year while visiting Washington and Oregon. All but two have stop moving. I even emailed the person who picked up one of them and he admitted he had it but just didn't have time to geocache anymore. He had found it his third day of being a member. After asking if he would please placed it, he replied, he didn't have time. Others are just missing in action. It's sad since we placed one each for our grandchildren. They picked out their TBs. Yeah, they were cute. I will say I found a geocoin the other day that had been listed as missing in 2010. It was wonderful to put it back in circulation. I'm hoping some of ours come out of hiding too. We've wondered if it's not kids of cachers that just think they are cute toys and they allow them to keep them. I agree that maybe they need more information on them about their purpose and to please not keep. We have more ready to release, but I don't know if we will.

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Ha its the same old story time and time and again isnt it? Sometimes its newbie cachers and sometimes not. Mots times it is though.

 

We have a habbit of looking back over favourite TB's we have picked up and see how they are getting on. Several times we have seen a newbie visit the cache, the next visitor months later informs ... TB not in cache. Now I worry about that. Because it was us who put it in potentially harms way. SO I contact the visitor prior to the non find. Ask them if they picked it up. We've done this five times now. On three occasions they were totally aware of what it was, but were totally unaware of what to do with it. So we sent instructions to help them.

 

On one other occasion the person who picked it up replied with abuse and telling us to mind our own business and that they knew full well what to do with a TB who the hell did we think we were. Which begs the question why they had it for a month and did not log it. And before someone chimes in with "maybe they were on holiday and blah blah blah" ... they had no trouble logging their finds in that time because I checked that. But they did log it shortly afterwards and the fifth time I sent one email asking and then one asking again and still got no reply but it turned up. This was a special one we had placed out in a very beautiful place. It was created to take the TB to loads of places with great views, but was in tribute to a couples son who had died very young of an illness.

 

Here's one of ours HOSTAGE This one replies to emails and has done for months. Apologises profusely and wont put it out in a cache. It was a gift for putting up another cacher. They are apparently local. Hasnt logged in to the site since the last request to move the TB but does log in via their phone so she says. Which does not register a log-in if they use the app.

 

Here is another HOSTAGE 2 which says dont keep longer than two weeks as per the TB instruction page on geocaching.com and does not reply to emails. Some people say ohhhhhh leave it they will move it on in their own time etc etc. Yeah my advice is if you leave it to see what happens, what will happen is it will go missing.

 

Like these which I didnt chase up and "just left to see what would happen"

 

MIA - Missing

MIA - Missing

MIA - Missing

 

Make TB knowledge and treatment, part of the sign up process where they have to complete a two question test to continue. Seen it loads of time on websites. Simple fix to the problem. Leave it no longer than a month before contacting the holder. And if you need a cache checking register your missing TB here - TB rescue.com and someone will volunteer to check the cache for you. Sadly we cant send out someone to visit another cacher. Yet :mad:

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After asking if he would please placed it, he replied, he didn't have time.

That seems outrageously rude. It's his fault that he picked it up and now doesn't have time to cache. I'm sure that very few people really cannot find a few minutes to visit some roadside geocache, even if it's the last one they ever find. He's saying that he's borrowed your item by mistake and can't be bothered to put his mistake right.

 

I had a cheery e-mail when one of my travel bugs was picked up. My wife knew that I was after a TB mascot and she found a really good one, a little toy wearing a rucksack. So I gave it a mission to "walk" long distance paths. It did well until a certain family picked it up. They e-mailed me, telling me that one of the kids had taken a real fancy to it so they'd swapped the toy for another "suitable" one. Which happened to be a seal. Very cute, I'm sure, but hardly a fair replacement. What happened to teaching kids about consideration for other peoples' property?

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:o ... one of the kids had taken a real shine to it ... :o

 

What the ffffffff. THAT, is outrageous. Name them now. NAAAAAAAAME THEM.

 

Saying that we picked up a TB and it had just the dog tag. Nothing attached. I looked to see what was supposed to be on it. A wreath christmas decoration. Hmmmm well I emailed to say it was gone and that if they wanted me to post it I would. But unfortunately it was summer so nowhere could we get a wreath tree decoration. I said I would make something if I didnt hear from them. No email came and so after two weeks, make that a few days apparently, I made a netfloat thing we make. It takes a few hours and well we thought it would be ok. Sent a pic and sent it on its way. Eventually got an email and the wording was something like ...

 

"Hmmm shame the wreath has gone. If we had read your email sooner we could have sent you a replacement but what you have made will have to do until we can find a suitable replacement, regards" :lol:

 

... and you are welcome.

Edited by Seaglass Pirates
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:o ... one of the kids had taken a real shine to it ... :o

 

What the ffffffff. THAT, is outrageous. Name them now. NAAAAAAAAME THEM.

I'm not naming and shaming; some people might take it upon themselves to get in touch with them and have a word. Anyway they were quite charming about it so it was difficult to be hard with them...

My brother, Ewan, helped me get the way to the River. When we got to the place we saw some people with the box no. 7. I found Ratty the travel bug and took him to my house. I feel like not giving him away. I want to keep him forever. By Andrew age 7

...but it was still wrong to allow the child to get away with it.

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None of these things are examples of best behaviour but the brutal truth is if we put TBs out there we do so knowing that there are other people out there who will take them thinking they are swag, take them thinking they are cool, take them not realising how to log them (and despite requests over the years Groundspeak appear disinterested in addressing this), or take them because their kids think they are cute and nobody has the gumption to tell little Jimmy that the way the game works is that if you take something you have to leave something, or that trackables aren't intended to be taken home and kept.

 

With the cost of the tag and whatever is attached the best way of looking at TBs is as the equivalent of folding a £5 note into a paper plane and throwing it out of a tall building to see where it ends up. If you're not willing to accept the likelihood that it's going to go missing (and probably sooner rather than later these days) perhaps it's best not to release them at all.

 

... which is why I haven't released any for years.

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Nothing annoys me more than people who can't log a trackable properly. I see loads of logs with people discovering trackables and saying they've taken them, people who log them out and can't be bothered placing them again, people who just take them and don't mention it and may or may not place it again in another cache. All these people should be taken outside, put against a wall and shot.

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Nothing annoys me more than people who can't log a trackable properly. I see loads of logs with people discovering trackables and saying they've taken them, people who log them out and can't be bothered placing them again, people who just take them and don't mention it and may or may not place it again in another cache. All these people should be taken outside, put against a wall and shot.

 

When that happens a lot it does seem to make it all the stranger that Groundspeak doesn't see fit to tweak the site to make logging trackables an easier process. It's hard to see why we can't have a list of trackables in the cache and an option to discover or retrieve them, just like we have an option to drop off or dip a trackable in our inventory.

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I don't think that would prevent people picking them up and not logging them though.

 

This weekend we found 3 TB's not in the caches as stated. One in particular said as they dropped it off "dropped off, had it for months". I'm not sure they even said sorry. And still we visited next and it's not there.

 

Another of ours may have gone awry as the cache has been visited by hordes. Not a single discovery or mention either way.

 

If you look at TB rescue you can load up the map and see where alerts in the world have been set up. Requests to visit caches by hopeful TB owners. The hotspot last time I looked was Germany. But have to say that ours that are there are treated brilliantly. And of course only a smidgen of cachers know about TB rescue.

 

The initial responsibility is with Groundspeak. Groundspeak control the tracking numbers I think. The dog tags are controlled by Groundspeak. They control the system that tracks them. No one else can operate the programming for this system. Soooo it's theirs. They have a duty of care to ensure the best has been done to promote correct treatment. As the items have a monetary value. And is a service available to its customers and no one else. They did have an article about it last year 'TB Day' I think it was called. Where the procedures were reiterated. But this was folly for the most part if it was only sent to premium members. I'm sure plenty of newbies would happily operate them correctly if only we could be sure they knew what to do with them.

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I don't think that would prevent people picking them up and not logging them though.

 

It wouldn't prevent it but it would make it easier for those inclined to do the right thing. Someone out to steal them will still steal them but it's less likely people will take them without logging because they didn't realise how to log them.

 

This weekend we found 3 TB's not in the caches as stated. One in particular said as they dropped it off "dropped off, had it for months". I'm not sure they even said sorry. And still we visited next and it's not there.

 

Personally I don't really see that it matters whether people apologise in logs or not. A couple of times I've had something for a long time (usually because I picked a few up while abroad and overlooked logging one of them) I've contacted the owner directly to apologise for its apparent disappearance, or if it got stuck in a dark corner of a suitcase I've apologised for keeping it so long.

 

Another of ours may have gone awry as the cache has been visited by hordes. Not a single discovery or mention either way.

 

The initial responsibility is with Groundspeak. Groundspeak control the tracking numbers I think. The dog tags are controlled by Groundspeak. They control the system that tracks them. No one else can operate the programming for this system. Soooo it's theirs. They have a duty of care to ensure the best has been done to promote correct treatment. As the items have a monetary value. And is a service available to its customers and no one else. They did have an article about it last year 'TB Day' I think it was called. Where the procedures were reiterated. But this was folly for the most part if it was only sent to premium members. I'm sure plenty of newbies would happily operate them correctly if only we could be sure they knew what to do with them.

 

If Groundspeak cared about it they could have implemented something by now. A proposal to mark missing trackables was put forward something like two years ago, it was marked as "submitted" something like a year ago and still there's no sign of any progress. The last official word on it that I saw was from Jeremy saying they hadn't committed to implementing it. So as far as I can tell they don't care that trackables go missing and have no interest in making sure cache inventories are accurate.

 

It really isn't rocket science to have an extra section when logging a cache that essentially duplicates the bit that says "did you leave any trackables" with a bit that says "did you take any trackables". If Groundspeak had any inclination at all to do it they could have had it done by now.

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Agree with you there. Not sure Groundspeak don't care. Or is it that they are unaware on what sort of scale it's happening. Perhaps Groundspeak would care to comment and enlighten us.

 

Perhaps it's the way of all things labeled official. Groundspeak are aware to a degree but are disinclined to action anything because hardly anyone has contacted them. Perhaps it's like your local MP. Not interested at all. Then interested if they get loads of letters complaining but downplay the situation through apathy or some need to present a form of control of the situation. But forced to action something the more something gains momentum. Like a petition? Maybe a petition needs to be started?

 

I mean we can't invoice Groundspeak for the costs of a TB and added item. We could invoice the indeviduals concerned. The Police can be contacted if it exceeds a certain value. Which is odd because it has to be over a certain arbitrary amount. £10.00 is it? Yet I can get a record for steeling a chocolate bar worth 50p lol. There is always something that can be done. It's just apathy that needs to be overcome. But initially a letter to Groundspeak should clarify the situation followed by a petition which I know loads of people would happily fire off to but less likely to bother to generate initially.

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Agree with you there. Not sure Groundspeak don't care. Or is it that they are unaware on what sort of scale it's happening. Perhaps Groundspeak would care to comment and enlighten us.

 

Perhaps it's the way of all things labeled official. Groundspeak are aware to a degree but are disinclined to action anything because hardly anyone has contacted them. Perhaps it's like your local MP. Not interested at all. Then interested if they get loads of letters complaining but downplay the situation through apathy or some need to present a form of control of the situation. But forced to action something the more something gains momentum. Like a petition? Maybe a petition needs to be started?

 

I mean we can't invoice Groundspeak for the costs of a TB and added item. We could invoice the indeviduals concerned. The Police can be contacted if it exceeds a certain value. Which is odd because it has to be over a certain arbitrary amount. £10.00 is it? Yet I can get a record for steeling a chocolate bar worth 50p lol. There is always something that can be done. It's just apathy that needs to be overcome. But initially a letter to Groundspeak should clarify the situation followed by a petition which I know loads of people would happily fire off to but less likely to bother to generate initially.

 

If Groundspeak took any interest in the game they run I'm sure they would see how many trackables disappear, how many get notes written based on not being in the cache and the like. They've got a proposal in the feature suggestions section of the forum (that they own) that's marked as submitted but with no apparent progress for months if not years.

 

The invoicing idea is really a bit silly given it's nigh on impossible to prove who stole a trackable. In theory someone taking it with no intention of moving it on is guilty of theft but given the nature of the game even if they were caught taking it from the cache their claim to be planning to move it on can't be verified any more than your claim or mine. Then if they log it into another cache only for the cache to go missing, or the next finder to say the bug wasn't there there's only circumstantial evidence that they had anything to do with the disappearance. For all trackables going missing is frustrating I wouldn't want the police wasting their time on such small stuff for as long as there are more serious criminals about (and I say that as one who had many TBs disappear before all but giving up on them)

 

You can get a record for stealing a chocolate bar because it's easily traceable, you are identifiable and the act of leaving a store without paying is a clear violation of the well known intention of a shop putting merchandise out on display. Leaving an item in a box in a hedge somewhere, taking no steps to watch over it or protect it, with the presumed intention that someone will take it, with no requirement for them to do anything beyond removing it from the box, and move it on is a different matter entirely.

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It's not quite that cut and dry though to be honest. The act of leaving something somewhere without watching over it is considered contributary negligence if it were a wallet and gets stolen. It is still a reasonable expectation to return at any time and find your property where you lost or left it. The outcome would no doubt be obviously different. But if someone picked up the wallet, emptied it and was later found in possession of its contents they will be convicted. It may be mitigated by some concocted story of intention to hand it in to a police station. Then the time scale is considered as mitigation. The longer the time period the greater the chance of conviction. Use the contents as you're own and it's all sorts of hot water.

 

A discarded coat is another example. Possibly litter or forgotten item. Someone picks it up and disposes of it ... But if they wear it and its proven to be someone else's time scales for handing in are almost irrelevant. This could happen as someone leaves a pub and takes a coat or at a school or anywhere. The rules or laws are fluid and interpretational.

 

If I leave a bicycle and do not lock it and go shopping or a pram or leave my property in a public place I do so usually without permission. The permission is assumed given the location. Taking of these items by anyone other than me or someone I have given permission to do so, is theft.

 

Tb's - I have purchased them therefore they are my property. I have placed them into a cache which has a procedure designed to cover such things. This under the law is a 'recognised practice'. This has recognised expectations governed by the terms and conditions of geoccahing.com and you and everyone who uses geoching.com is governed by those terms and conditions and therefore the expectations associated with them. There is no wiggle room. I can further stipulate a time frame I expect my TB to be moved on in. It's is fluid but is recognised practice to burden the logger of said TB with that time scale should I so wish. The terms and conditions which bind suggest two weeks unless you are advised by the owner of the TB. Note the word "owner".

Further I have abided by the rules of TB's by placing it into a cache to be moved and the cache is not in plain view but secreted and intended deliberately to only be found by other members of geocaching.com.

 

Factually and lawfully that is what I have done. I have as you can see, far from, flung it in a box and left it for dead. I have done my best within the limits of the terms and conditions. I have done my best to secure its location within the understanding of the law and I have done my best to own it by logging it in that location and purchase the item in the first place. I freely give other geocaching.com users permission to remove it from that location and understand in doing so that they are bound by the terms and conditions of geocaching.com. And this means that they also accept those T's & C's when they use geoccahing.com to find the cache. All of the terms/c not just the ones that suit them.

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Sure, I'm not so much disputing the issue of theft but noting the difference between theft in the sense of taking something that is apparently abandoned and taking something that any reasonable person could see wasn't abandoned.

 

If you prop your bike outside the shop while you go in to buy a newspaper any reasonable person would see that you planned to come back to your bike. If you drop your wallet that's full of cash and cards any reasonable person would realise that you hadn't done it on purpose and hadn't abandoned it. If you find a cracked box under a log next to a tree it's not entirely unreasonable to conclude it's litter, along with things like discarded bottles and cans and crisp packets. Even within the constructs of the game it's well known that releasing a TB is done so that people can take it, move it wherever they see fit, and leave it there. So at a stroke you've got another major difference with the bike or the wallet - most people don't let random strangers borrow their bike or wallet for open-ended periods of time.

 

The other simple matter is that a travel bug is of such trivial value that in my opinion it's not worth getting the police involved at all. If someone is stealing them en masse they could be costing geocachers collectively a large sum of money but it's going to be the devil's own job proving who took them, and that they took them with the intention of permanently depriving the owner. Even if you catch a suspected TB thief with TBs in their possession they've got an obvious defence by merely claiming they fully intend to move them along (and therefore took them with the owner's implied consent) and just haven't found a suitable cache to place them in as yet. If the thief has removed the tag then all you've got is a generic item, in which case the fact it's virtually identical to the one you released with a metal tag on it could be claimed to be coincidental.

 

I see trackables as being the equivalent of folding a £10 note into a paper plane and throwing it from a tall building into the wind, just to see where it ends up. When I release a trackable I never expect to see it again, so if someone steals it I haven't actually lost anything tangible. It's annoying, but realistically speaking you either release them and take your chances or don't release them at all.

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I thought it would be interesting to post an update to give some hope at least.

 

Of the two TB' s that were being held hostage:

 

One is still hostage

The other - the holder eventually replied with a very apologetic email and an explanation. Placing the TB out despite having a very good reason not to rush. Which we were very grateful for.

 

Another was placed in a cache in Brighton and was not there after numerous visits. This surfaced three days ago ... In Austria. How it got there is a mystery and who took it there is a mystery also.

 

Another was picked up months ago by a couple in Wales. They had it months and months but did not reply to any emails. Then it was taken to Cyprus by them. And then more weeks past without activity. Eventually a reply was obtained to say they had placed it in a cache in Cyprus. They then edited their log to reflect this. Weeks after returning. Visitors to the Cyprus cache reported it missing. I marked it as missing. A few weeks later it was relogged out if the blue by the welsh couple. Ooooops no we made a mistake and found it down the back of a dresser but we've found it now. And then they logged it into a cache in Wales. I think we are getting on for a year with it now. Guess what .... Missing again.

 

Now it isn't necessarily missing. I could try and trace it. But there is a problem. The next visitors to that cache are newbies. And apparently they have never logged into geocaching. Ever. That's because as I have moaned on about before - if you use an app to use the website you do not leave a footprint on geocaching. Com. But in this case it also means I cannot contact them to ask them if they picked up the TB. Because their contact details have never been verified. Surely this is a security breach and tbs and caches could be stolen by anyone who employed this tactic. However (and I don't think this is the case with ours), how do I contact "htleads" who were the next visitors to the cache. We aren't on facecrack and have no intention of going on it. Besides that website has nothing to do with geocaching so I don't see why it is pointed at so much as the next step. So how do I ....

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Now it isn't necessarily missing. I could try and trace it. But there is a problem. The next visitors to that cache are newbies. And apparently they have never logged into geocaching. Ever. That's because as I have moaned on about before - if you use an app to use the website you do not leave a footprint on geocaching. Com. But in this case it also means I cannot contact them to ask them if they picked up the TB. Because their contact details have never been verified. Surely this is a security breach and tbs and caches could be stolen by anyone who employed this tactic. However (and I don't think this is the case with ours), how do I contact "htleads" who were the next visitors to the cache. We aren't on facecrack and have no intention of going on it. Besides that website has nothing to do with geocaching so I don't see why it is pointed at so much as the next step. So how do I ....

 

Could you give the link to this trackable please - It's easier to offer ideas/suggestions after looking at the details :)

 

MrsB

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Of course sorry :o

 

TB's Page - http://coord.info/TB4TGD6 Snap the dragon

Cache it was last placed in - http://coord.info/GC21NWY My Ting a Ling etc

htleads profile linky - htleads profile link

 

Thanks :)

 

Looking back through the geocaching finds of htleads it seems that they, and pipsafari, and LSR-dragons go caching together - on several caches that I looked at they seem to have found the caches consecutively. The log dates are sometimes a few days apart but this could simple be down to late logging and not realising they can change the log date back to when they actually found the cache. The best suggestion I can offer is to try emailing LSR-dragons, explaining what's happened and see whether you can get any joy from them.

 

... Oh, and crossing fingers, of course. :unsure:

 

MrsB

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You are all depressing me - am a newbie - only 9 caches found - one should have had trackable and I dutifully reported it missing. Just ordered some trackables to use myself but after reading your posts am wondering whether it was a total waste of money <_<

But Thanks to all who placed the caches I have found. Am doing my best to follow the rules!!

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I find they do turn up in the end - I've nudged a couple of people lately.

 

I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago....

 

Does anyone else find that if German cachers pick up your TB, they find it acceptable to dip it into every cache and event they do? I've got 2 at the moment which have specific missions, but the people who have them currently seem to be hanging on to them. I've asked them not to do it, but the silence is deafening!

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Hilariously ours all end up in Germany and never escape. We worried about this initially because TB rescue mapping shows Germany to be a bit of a black spot. However ours have been diligently past from cache to cache to cache. And if they do go slow for a bit suddenly they accelerate like hell.

 

However here ..... Pfffff ...... They make it two of three caches along. Go missing. Months later turn up. Or you ask politely and get an abusive email back. Sometimes you get a sorry but most of the time it's indignant amazement that you dare even ask. I'd be mortified if I held onto a TB for more than a month. I'd cringe like hell if I had to be contacted. And certainly would not abuse the owner.

 

Back on post -

Always dip tbs wherever we go. It's easier to do it than not "visit all" autofil tab. I have seen some abrasive orders not to dip tbs else the log will be deleted. A bit anal really because it makes not a jot of difference.

Edited by Seaglass Pirates
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We have released two tb's to date with both going missing. Germany seems to be the new Bermuda Triangle for us, with the bug going missing after only six months. We also went to Australia and released a tb to see how long it would take to return to Scotland. It went missing in the first cache we placed it in. Needless to say that We will not be buying more.

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I have about 12 out at the moment, 50% are in the hands of people who do not seem inclined to place them back out. I have decided not to place any more as the fun of watching them travel is outweighed by the frustration of knowing they are in someone possession. Sadly it is often new cachers who then give up and keep them.

The only ones that I get annoyed about are the 4 I have out which have clues that lead to a final cache. One or two people have held onto them so others cannot log the cache before them, this does sadden me.

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There's a very narrow time frame between me placing one (my third) and an experienced cacher finding the cache stating no trackables inside... Two newbies logged the cache together... I've sent one a message politely asking about it... neither have logged into GC for over a month.

 

Have had a reply.... but sadly no travelbug... onwards with my "investigation"

Edited by miabasset
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There's a very narrow time frame between me placing one (my third) and an experienced cacher finding the cache stating no trackables inside... Two newbies logged the cache together... I've sent one a message politely asking about it... neither have logged into GC for over a month.

 

Have had a reply.... but sadly no travelbug... onwards with my "investigation"

 

Revisited cache and looked at the logbook to discover not everyone had logged the find online - one of them took my little trackable .... contacted them... they had an internet access problem and have now logged it and the find! So, none of mine are missing now!

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