Cachers Vs. Cache Seekers

[Guest Ron Streeter]

an area to seek a cache that they should also place one in the area as well. After all, they have made the trip and the hike. How much more effort would it be to either place a cache on the way in, or to hike to another area of the park to place a new cache. I have only seen one other person do this, resulting in (I think) 3 caches in one area. What do you other cachers think of this? Also, I'm sure it would be possible to pull this kind of data out of the database of some 100 California and 700 plus in the entire database. Comments?

[Guest cache_ninja]

a few comments

 

-there are many people who are new to geocaching, and it makes sense that they would like to visit a few caches to get a feel for the whole thing, before placing their own. this can yield some insight into cache contents,container types, placement, difficulty ratings and so forth...

 

-personally i think it would be kinda lame to simply hide a cache while visiting another cache, if they are very close to each other..if its a huge area/park, thats an entirely different scenerio, but if you hide one cache w/in a 5min walk of another, that seems kinda silly and a waste-as you mention, there are planty of areas without caches, why not find one on the map, explore a new place, and hid a cache?

 

also ,when i hide something I usually find a spot I like or find particularly interesting for some reason, thats part of the fun, its not very creative to simply hide something where there, well, already is something...

 

-some people simply like looking for caches more than hiding them, and vice versa. who cares? let people have their fun, more caches are popping up all the time..you'll always have stuff to look for.

 

c/n

 

[This message has been edited by cache_ninja (edited 02-25-2001).]

[Guest swangner]

Geocaching will survive nicely with more hunters than cachers. I've been involved with it for 4 months now, and it's exploded, even in that short time.

[Guest Ron Streeter]

Guess I will explore this a bit more. What I am looking for is a little more equity than I am seeing in my region of Northern California. I take considerable care in putting a nice cache together: memorable containers, good contents, good location. I enjoy doing that...providing a nice hunt for others. I also enjoy reading their comments when they find my caches. I ALSO ENJOY LOOKING FOR CACHES somewhere closer than 150 miles from my home, and once again, if the people who have been finding my caches reciprocated with some caches I would feel better about providing entertainment for them. I am not talking about the people who have 1 or 2 finds under their belts, I know they need time to get familiar with the game, but when someone has a dozen or more finds and hasn't placed 1 cache, that seems inequitable to me and not in the spirit of the game. Say what you want ("some people like to hunt, some like to plant") etc. this kind of imbalance just doesn't fly with me. In our area a regional park can easily handle 2,3 or more caches. After making a one hour drive on freeways to get to a parking lot, I still contend that one should be able to go on several 1 to 2 hour hikes in a park to find at least two caches. Ok cache_ninja...post another response.

[Guest fiser]

I think the only way to encourage more caches is to plant more--leading by example basically.

I've planted more than twice as many as I've hunted, simply because there aren't many in my area. I can't do much more than hope to spark some interest. I got a friend interested and he's primed to hide some caches around Cleveland.

I think a lot of seekers, to stereotype from some of the posts, have somewhat of a profit motive for seeking. I explained geocaching to my roommate and the first thing he said was, "What kind of stuff do you get, anything valuable?". So there's really no incentive to hide anything if all you want is to find "stuff".

I think if we're going to encourage more hiding, I think we need to emphasize the aspect of a cache as an opportunity to show someone an old-growth stand of trees, or a nice view, and de-emphasize the "come find my gift certificate" aspect of the game.

[Guest BigFig]

Or ... you can be like me and there are

NO caches nearby. I'm a newbie and plan on

putting down some caches to try to get some interest started in my geographical area.

Of course, anyone is welcome to visit the Daniel Boone National forest (my back yard), enjoy the lake and look for cache!

[Guest fiser]

RS, I think the largest hurdle for the "equity" you seek is that our pursuit is based entirely on goodwill.

The article in Outside Magazine touches briefly on the subject, noting how the trading/treasure finding aspect of geocaching is dependent on trusting complete strangers.

I hid a cache with, among other things, a goofy puppet and a disposable camera. I wrote on the bag containing the camera that visitors should take a picture of themselves with the puppet. (I imagined a camera full of funny pictures which I could later develop and leave in the cache for the amusement of others).

The first visitor took the puppet. So much for goodwill.

I think all we can realistically hope to expect from planting a cache is that someday someone *may* visit it. We can't control what they leave or take, or even if they bother to visit. I think hoping for equity may just frustrate you more than anything else.

Geocaching, in its best form, is just environmental charity.

[Guest AZMark]

in in new directions. Like the team games others have been talking about. No real cache,,just how fast you can get to X number of locations and back to the starting point. Or use it to just get out and enjoy backpacking finding new areas learning more about environmental concerns, help local hiking groups with trail maintence.

 

Till then I'll continue to hide as creative a cache as possible, hope others do the same, and take the time to try have a positive impact on the environment and those who hunt our caches.

[Guest madhat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

I believe there are more people seeking caches, than there are people placing them, and I wonder why all those seekers aren't putting caches down. Comments?

---

 

I am very new to this... Only discovered cacheing yesterday. But I have to say that I am more excited by the thought of laying caches than seeking.

 

By placing caches, I am still out enjoying our wonderful countryside. And still using the techniques/technology at the heart of geocaching... But perhaps more importantly, I have also given others who enjoy this 'sport' more opportunities.

 

I cannot wait to register my first cache, and then wait, with some amount of pride that people are (hopefully) going to make the effort to trace it.

 

I realise there will be people purely after goodies, but I intend to cache more for the puzzle than the prize...

[Guest Krepism]

Well I would have in Utah it seems that we have more hiders than seekers. I think we might be the only state with that problem. Our caches are now from the most north to most south, from the most east to the most west. Plus we hae a ton listed in the middle. i am not sure how many people are registered in Utah, but we now have about 40 caches (about 3 new a week) but the logs for finding a cache seem to slowing.

[Guest bcbpbob]

I have to agree with Ron. It would be nice for more people to hide. I have the benifit of living near where Ron has hidden alot of his cache's. Of my 5 registered finds, 4 are Ron's. I have only hidden 1. I do have another ready to go, but got side tracked today with work I'm hopeful that with the good weather coming, the sport in our area will pick up. I have to say, that hiding a good stash is almost as much fun as finding one when done right (subjective). It gave me a great deal of satisfaction to know that having found so many of Ron's stash's, that he was 1st to find mine and that it was a good challange for him. I guess that hiding multiple stash's in one area may not apply in other areas, here, that is not the case. yesterday, my daughter and I found 3 in one park, with a 6.5 mile total hike. We saw great views and were challanged with the finds. A great day!!!! Be patient Ron. I hope that it is coming, our area has an abundance of great spots for hiding. With all that are out there, there still are many untapped locations. Happy Hunting

[Guest bcbpbob]

I have to agree with Ron. It would be nice for more people to hide. I have the benifit of living near where Ron has hidden alot of his cache's. Of my 5 registered finds, 4 are Ron's. I have only hidden 1. I do have another ready to go, but got side tracked today with work I'm hopeful that with the good weather coming, the sport in our area will pick up. I have to say, that hiding a good stash is almost as much fun as finding one when done right (subjective). It gave me a great deal of satisfaction to know that having found so many of Ron's stash's, that he was 1st to find mine and that it was a good challange for him. I guess that hiding multiple stash's in one area may not apply in other areas, here, that is not the case. yesterday, my daughter and I found 3 in one park, with a 6.5 mile total hike. We saw great views and were challanged with the finds. A great day!!!! Be patient Ron. I hope that it is coming, our area has an abundance of great spots for hiding. With all that are out there, there still are many untapped locations. Happy Hunting

[Guest Anton]

Greetings,

 

Well, I don't have much choice because there aren't any caches near Syracuse, NY. It will be up to me to get one planted, or wait for others to discover the hobby.

 

Say, that's an idea. I could promote geocaching locally, and then wait for other folks to plant caches. I have to wait for the snow to clear anyway. Until then, I could put Geocaching flyers in sporting goods stores that sell GPS receivers - like EMS.

 

Gott run - I'm off to the mall.

 

Anton

 

------------------

Anton Ninno, N2RUD

Syracuse, NY 13210

[Guest GOMom]

Ron, I agree we need more stashers. I know here in this neck of PA we have a few, but I'll have to drive a minimum of 55 miles for the 2 closest, then it jumps up to 80 miles, 90 miles, up and up. It would be great to know there were several caches in one area, close enough to do multiple hikes in one day.

 

I'm also going to start stashing Kid Kaches for little geo-juniors in state parks around here. Featuring short hikes and Kid Kache goodies. I may even make little stickers for each cache that congratulates them as being official members of the Kid Kache Klub and the name of the stash they cached!

Whatcha think? Any feedback/tips?

[Guest GOMom]

Ron, I agree we need more stashers. I know here in this neck of PA we have a few, but I'll have to drive a minimum of 55 miles for the 2 closest, then it jumps up to 80 miles, 90 miles, up and up. It would be great to know there were several caches in one area, close enough to do multiple hikes in one day.

 

I'm also going to start stashing Kid Kaches for little geo-juniors in state parks around here. Featuring short hikes and Kid Kache goodies. I may even make little stickers for each cache that congratulates them as being official members of the Kid Kache Klub and the name of the stash they cached!

Whatcha think? Any feedback/tips?

[Guest Scout]

I concur with the statement that all we can we can realistically hope to expect from planting a cache is that someday someone *may* visit it. I just planted my first cache. It's in a place that may never get visited. But that doubt just adds to the enjoyment.

 

The growing popularity of geocaching makes me wonder how long it will be before complaints arise about geocachers "littering" our parks and open spaces. After all, much of what passes for treasure would be considered trash by someone who stumbled across it without a GPS in hand. Would it be better to steer the sport onto another reward system that doesn't require caching trinkets? What would that be?

[Guest Markwell]

There has been much discussion about what to leave, etc., in other forums (fori?). I myself like the small little toys that can be a reward for a child taking this hobby up with their parents, but I think that the hunt itself has an intrinsic value. I'm not out to get "trinkets" and if I'm caching alone, I just write in the log book and go home and log in the virtual logs.

 

My guess is that if this explodes as much as it has in the past few months - and the people caching are also trashing, we may have rangers posted at the entrances to national and/or state parks requiring you to leave all GPS devices at the gate.

 

So - an additional reminder (warning): be enviro-conscious when seeking - and when hiding, figure that there may be a non-enviro-conscious seeker out there. Play nice, and we can all play for a lot longer.

[Guest Quinnow]

Anton...I have been trying to tag base with you to see if you wanted to come up with some ideas for NY State Geocachers, but I haven't been able to do so. I come to your city about 10 times a month and would like to hide one in your area as well as Geneva Ny area. Contact me if you would so that maybe I can get some ideas of areas around you that would be good!

also I hid 3 in the Rochester area which isn't really all that far from you if you like a weekend drive!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anton:

Greetings,

 

Well, I don't have much choice because there aren't any caches near Syracuse, NY. It will be up to me to get one planted, or wait for others to discover the hobby.

 

Say, that's an idea. I could promote geocaching locally, and then wait for other folks to plant caches. I have to wait for the snow to clear anyway. Until then, I could put Geocaching flyers in sporting goods stores that sell GPS receivers - like EMS.

 

Gott run - I'm off to the mall.

 

Anton

 

---

 

 

------------------

Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest Confucious]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GOMom:

Ron, I agree we need more stashers. I know here in this neck of PA we have a few, but I'll have to drive a minimum of 55 miles for the 2 closest, then it jumps up to 80 miles, 90 miles, up and up. It would be great to know there were several caches in one area, close enough to do multiple hikes in one day.

 

I'm also going to start stashing Kid Kaches for little geo-juniors in state parks around here. Featuring short hikes and Kid Kache goodies. I may even make little stickers for each cache that congratulates them as being official members of the "Kid Kache Klub" and the name of the stash they cached!

Whatcha think? Any feedback/tips?

---

 

Kid Kache Klub..........come on now !!!!!!!!!

[Guest Confucious]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GOMom:

Ron, I agree we need more stashers. I know here in this neck of PA we have a few, but I'll have to drive a minimum of 55 miles for the 2 closest, then it jumps up to 80 miles, 90 miles, up and up. It would be great to know there were several caches in one area, close enough to do multiple hikes in one day.

 

I'm also going to start stashing Kid Kaches for little geo-juniors in state parks around here. Featuring short hikes and Kid Kache goodies. I may even make little stickers for each cache that congratulates them as being official members of the "Kid Kache Klub" and the name of the stash they cached!

Whatcha think? Any feedback/tips?

---

 

Kid Kache Klub..........come on now !!!!!!!!!

[Guest Ron Streeter]

I think your Kid Kache club has some merit. I wonder if that wise old fellow confucious (unregistered)is perhaps thinking that KKK might be a bad combo of alphabet letters !

[Guest Nomad]

I think you should change the initials of your Kids Kache Klub...for obvious reasons. Hey mom, I'm a member of the K.K.K.!

[Guest Markwell]

Interesting Idea!

 

What about a certificate template on the web? Type their name in a java form and it creates a certificate with a scripty font for their name with squares for their stickers. Then each Kiddie Cache could be stocked with stickers indicating the coordinates of the cache. Kid can remove the sticker and place it on their certificate.

 

Hmmmm...

 

Starting to sound like letterboxing, isn't it?

[Guest Muzikman]

GOMom,

I see your from Canonsburg. Have you been upto the NCT caches? There are quite a few up along the trail. Although I only found one, there are about 3 within a 5 mile hike, and about 10 or so within 20 min drive from each other (not counting hike time to find the cache). I plan on placing a few in and around the Pittsburgh area (eastern 'burbs mostly). I may even run out to Ohiopyle and hide a few.

 

------------------

---------------------

Jason "Muzikman" Beam

Pittsburgh, PA

-eTrex Summit-

[Guest Ron Streeter]

The topic of this thread got waylaid a bit, so to get it back on track....

 

I had some minor success in getting a few people to place some more caches, but there are still some who "just can't find the time" to plant a cache...too busy finding them !

 

I still consider anyone who has a dozen or more finds under their belt and from zero to 1 or 2 placements to be "geocache slackers".

 

The worst offenders in my area are:

 

23 finds......4 placements

14 finds......0 placements

 

I did find one fellow (I think in another state or the southern part of CA) who had 50 finds and zero placements...he's the record holder for the Gordon Gecko award.."Greed is good".

 

Thoughts?

[Guest Quinnow]

hmmm...I just stumbled aross this thread and it kind of upsets me a bit. The reason being that if nobody places caches then we have no sport at all. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a cache and go out and locate a nice spot to leave it.

For those of you that read this that have gone out and found even one cache and have placed none, remember that if it wasn't for someone else you wouldn't have done the hunt in the first place.

I think its fun making and placing caches, and the only reason I haven't placed more than 3 yet is due to wanting them to be special to those that find them, so I put tons of work into each one.

Now get your butts up and go make a cache!

 

------------------

Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-25-2001).]

[Guest bob_renner]

can be no seekers. I don't think you should try to make your two numbers the same. If you place a cache and it gets 10 visits, then you have generated 10 finds. If you find 10 other caches, then you have consumed 10 finds. At this point you are basically even. If there are 100 participants and each one places 1 cache, then there are 100 possible finds for each person.

 

I'm not proposing a scheme where you HAVE to place so many caches in order to look for any. But I don't think the 23/4 number is too far out of line. How may visits have these 4 caches generated? If it's 5 each, then they have generated 20 finds. I do agree that the 50/0 person needs to think about creating some caches.

 

Bob

[Guest Ron Streeter]

Bob...

 

The math on your recent post would appear to be on the money, but as in all things mathematical, there are other factors.

 

The person has in fact had a total of 23 logs on his 4 caches...matching perfectly your theory.

 

One of the other factors involved is the placement of the four. Three are within .25 miles from each other. While I have not sought them out, they appear to be on the same trail...at any rate they are very close to each other.

 

According to your theory, I could plant 4 caches, .25 miles from each other along the same trail and because of human nature..."there's another one a quarter mile up"....I would garner a huge number of logs from people who would seek out all four.

 

Meanwhile, if I drove 30 to 100 miles away to log a find and did not bother to put one within a mile or two (or even a quarter of a mile)of the one I found, I would not be adding to the appeal of the area for other cache hunters.

 

I have logged 13 I think and have placed 12. My placements are NOT all in the same parks where I have found 13, but some of them are. I have then had people comment favorably on the ability to find two caches in the same park. It only makes sense to me...IF the area is large enough to sustain that. In my area the parks I go to are on the order of thousands (maybe even 10,000) acres in many cases.

 

I have not tallied the total finds on my caches, but they average 3 to 5 each I would guess.

 

Probably just my leaning on this topic, but probably some value here too.

 

[This message has been edited by Ron Streeter (edited 03-25-2001).]

[Guest WrongWay]

I guess I wouldn't complain about this. There is no "rule" stating you have to place a cache to seek one.

 

I do agree that just scoring caches is a greedy attitude.

 

The people that are just after the cache are missing a great part of the game.

Researching a cache location is the fun part for me. Finding a spot that you think others will enjoy then describing it in such detail that would make the reader want to visit it. Then actually having someone visit your chosen location and write something about it.

 

It really creates a feeling of satisfaction, that you have shared with others.

 

People that don't place caches are missing out on a great aspect of the game but it's their loss not ours.

 

regards,

 

Jim

[Guest daviskw]

Hmmm I guess I could be considered a slacker by the standards here. I have 31 finds and have placed 5. But there is something you people are forgetting, not everyone here is rich. I'm not poor mouthing but on each cache I spent:

 

$6.00 container

$8.50 camera

$25 of gifts

$3.00 logbook

$2.00 for 2 pens and 3 pencils and sharpener.

1.00 for baggies and such.

Add a few bucks for box decorations and gas to get there and it is around $50 per cache. That is $200 bucks in a couple of months that I found the 31 caches. That's about all I can afford. I'm not complaining, I like having nice cashes for people to find and enjoy and I'm not worried about counting who does what.

 

Butch

[Guest Ron Streeter]

DavisKW...

 

I'd like to find one of your caches..they sound nice.

 

You are counting something (your costs) and rightfully so.

 

I guess everyone has their own way of looking at these things.

 

We all spend gas money on the trips. Here in central California the gas is $1.67 where I live. Most of the caches I find and place are about 60 miles from my home.

 

I buy containers at thrift stores for about $1.00 each. Some of them are funny containers, not just tupperware.

 

The items I put inside are not that expensive; I put in lots of little toys bought at $1 stores and the occassional item for an adult like sunglasses (still inexpensive). My philosophy here is that the hunt is the primary motivator and the "treasure" a plus. But as I say, we all have our own perspectives.

 

[This message has been edited by Ron Streeter (edited 03-25-2001).]

[Guest Exocet]

Just to throw some more numbers out there:

 

My friends and I have found 12 caches. We've hidden three. The three of us agreed to keep our found/hide ratio to 5:1.

 

We benefit from the fact that Oregon has lots of neat parks and reserved spaces, and my friends and I all know of a lot of interesting spots we'd like to show everyone else.

 

Personally, unless a park was absolutely massive, I wouldn't put more than one, maybe two caches in it - and that's assuming there are none there in the first place.

 

The reason my friends and I aren't willing to put down multiple caches in the same park/area is simply because of how we feel about Geocaching: the fun isn't in finding the caches, it's in going to and discovering a new place. So, no point in putting two caches there, unless there were two very unique and interesting spots in a park.

 

This is my opinion and I expect that not everyone will agree with it.

[Guest Ron Streeter]

This person places a "virtual cache" to attract people to the sink hole from which, nightly a thousand bats take flight.

 

Sound like a fantasy? That place exists, and if it wasn't a LONG WAY AWAY from where I live, I would put in three caches.

[Guest Quinnow]

Wow those prices are way high. I use quality .50cal ammo cans that i get for 3.50 each. I buy very nice toys for kids like yo-yo's and crayons for 1.00 each at the "dollar store", you can also get a great logbook there for the same price. The camera is about 8-10 like you said, but all in all you can make an excellant cache for around 20.00 total.

I still have noticed that tons of people are going out and bragging that they found 5 caches in a single day, some have over 30 caches under their belts, yet have hidden less than 3 if any at all.

I put hours into thinking about where I will hide one, as well as the money put into making it and the cost of gas to take it out and place it. So for me to do all this for someone else to enjoy and give nothing back in return is kind of upsetting to me.

So for those of you that have run out into the field and cache hunted all day to return and brag about your finds, please remember that if it wasn't for us making them your GPS would still be on that shelf collecting dust. If you're not going to place any then don't go look for any either.

I understand that there are those few instances where maybe a geocacher is not able to get out and place one, like maybe health reasons or age, but for those of you that are racking over 5 finds and haven't placed one yet you need to stop where you are and start helping the cause of placing one in a nice location...my two cents!

quote:

---

Originally posted by daviskw:

Hmmm I guess I could be considered a slacker by the standards here. I have 31 finds and have placed 5. But there is something you people are forgetting, not everyone here is rich. I'm not poor mouthing but on each cache I spent:

 

$6.00 container

$8.50 camera

$25 of gifts

$3.00 logbook

$2.00 for 2 pens and 3 pencils and sharpener.

1.00 for baggies and such.

Add a few bucks for box decorations and gas to get there and it is around $50 per cache. That is $200 bucks in a couple of months that I found the 31 caches. That's about all I can afford. I'm not complaining, I like having nice cashes for people to find and enjoy and I'm not worried about counting who does what.

 

Butch

 

---

 

------------------

Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-29-2001).]

[Guest Nomad]

Ok, first of all, interesting topic! Here are some of the thoughts people have expressed:

 

"I put alot of thought into placing my caches."

 

"If it wasn't for cache placers, the seekers would have nothing to find."

 

"If you're not going to hide caches you shouldn't be seeking them."

 

"People who strictly seek are greedy."

 

What I havent heard is, "If it wasn't for cache seekers, the placers would have empty log books."

 

This sport has two halves, seekers and placers. Sometimes the halves mesh, sometimes they dont. That is just something everyone has to accept. There will be some people who will only be seekers, as that is the only part of the sport they enjoy. And that is fine. Also, there will be some people who will only be placers (it's true!), as that is the only part of the sport THEY enjoy. And that is also fine.

 

I don't see how the seekers can be greedy, as long as they are following the take an item leave an item rule. That is not greed, it's equality.

 

As far as those who say... "I enjoy placing caches and I put alot of thought into the spot/contents." That is great! Thats what we want cache placers to say. So, why are we trying to force those who aren't motivated (for whatever reason) to place caches. That's going to lead to cheesy caches in random areas, thrown together simply because the person felt they had to. Caches should be placed out of inspiration, not obligation. The only people we want hiding caches are those who want to b/c those will be the quality caches!

So, calm down. There will always be new caches to find. This sport is attracting new players every day. New players mean new caches. If anything we should be concerned with too many caches littering our parks, but that is for another topic.

For now, just enjoy the game. If you wish to seek, seek! If you wish to place, place! If you wish to do both, do both! Remember, the essence of geocaching, and any sport really, is to have fun. So, enjoy!

 

-See you in the log books...

 

[This message has been edited by Nomad (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Guest cjdoyle]

I have just the other 'problem'. In two months I've placed five caches and only have had two seekers visit. I'm dying to get people to my caches. So all of you who want to seek and don't want to hide, come my way!!!!!!

[Guest Quinnow]

You ever heard the term "you can't hide your own easter eggs"? well in this area we have hunters and no hiders. And yes...I enjoy making caches and also enjoy looking for them, but there are none to look for except my own. And it was never mentioned that the people that have only found one or two should rush out and hide one, it was mentioned that the people who have had massive found logs should.

doesn't cost anything at all to go out and find a cache except for some time and gas money perhaps, but it does cost money to make a cache that people would be interested in finding. I am certain that a reply will be made saying that it doesn't cost anything to make one, and yes! I have heard of those type of caches, but would rather find one like mine and some of the others that people have made.

I think you had my point fly right over your head. its a give and take sport and others that have been taking (alot) should give some in return.

 

------------------

Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Guest Nomad]

l. I understand that it can be frustrating if their are no caches to find in your own area, but give the game time. We are still in the infant stages. Until then, just take some road trips!

 

And, since you bring up points flying over people's heads, I will restate my own which you seemed to miss:

 

Caches should be placed because of inspriration rather than obligation!

 

You can't force people to place caches...it's something that needs to naturally happen. That's what makes it so special when it does.

[Guest Quinnow]

I don't recall saying that I was going to force anyone to do anything, But maybe when I hit enter and this gets posted you read it differantly than I do. This post was not meant to be for new geocachers, nor was it meant to be for geocachers that are getting a feel for the sport to see how they like it. This post was meant for those of the geocaching community that have logged over 20 finds with little to return back to the sport. And I also don't recall being frustrated. I am simply thinking of geocachers in this area as well as other areas that have but a small handfull of caches yet have a large handfull of geocachers. to find over 20 caches would take some considerable time to do so, invest a small portion of that time and give someone else the oppertunity to find one that you have hidden.Nomad I have looked to see how many you have found and or hidden but didn't come up with anything, I just wanted to find a basis for your return comments, but this board wasn't designed to swap blows back and forth and it seems you are wishing to push this to that. I am happy to debate this with you on a private level as to not congest this board with tit for tats. If you wish to continue I would be more than happy to listen and respond via e-mail... navicach@rochester.rr.com

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 04-06-2001).]

[Guest Nomad]

#1POINT YOU MADE:

" This post was not meant to be for new geocachers, nor was it meant to be for geocachers that are getting a feel for the sport to see how they like it." -Quinnow

#1CONTADICTION:

"For those of you that read this that have gone out and found even one cache and have placed none, remember that if it wasn't for someone else you wouldn't have done the hunt in the first place."-Quinnow

 

#2 POINT YOU MADE:

"This post was meant for those of the geocaching community that have logged over 20 finds with little to return back to the sport." -Quinnow

#2CONTADICTION:

"For those of you that are racking over 5 finds and haven't placed one yet you need to stop where you are and start helping the cause of placing one in a nice location."-Quinnow

 

#3POINT YOU MADE:

"I don't recall saying that I was going to force anyone to do anything."-Quinnow

#3CONTRADICTION:

"Now get your butts up and go make a cache!"-Quinnow

 

"But maybe when I hit enter and this gets posted you read it differantly than I do."-Quinnow

 

Yeah, I guess I have a reading comprehension problem.

 

The purpose of the board is to discuss and even debate the topic. That is what we are doing and I see nothing wrong with that, therefore I will defer your e-mail invitation. The more people that can join in, the more productive the results.

 

BTW, do you understand my point...that you wont enjoy finding a cache that was hidden b/c someone felt guilted into it?

[Guest peter]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quinnow:

I put hours into thinking about where I will hide one, as well as the money put into making it and the cost of gas to take it out and place it. So for me to do all this for someone else to enjoy and give nothing back in return is kind of upsetting to me.

So for those of you that have run out into the field and cache hunted all day to return and brag about your finds, please remember that if it wasn't for us making them your GPS would still be on that shelf collecting dust. If you're not going to place any then don't go look for any either.

---

This is a hobby. If you don't enjoy putting together your caches and then getting emails from the seekers with descriptions of their experiences when searching for them, then don't do it. Complaining about your 'sacrifice' is likely to just turn people away from the activity entirely, which is presumably not what you're after. What's the point in placing caches if no one is going to be looking for them? If everyone followed the suggestion to place a cache for each one they found, then many caches would never be found and most would only be found once or twice - as a cache placer I wouldn't find that very satisfying.

 

And no, my GPS would certainly not be gathering dust on the shelf. It was being used for an average of several hours/day long before geocaching existed and will continue to be used for a wide variety of activities.

[Guest Quinnow]

ad.-Quinnow

 

"But maybe when I hit enter and this gets posted you read it differantly than I do."-Quinnow

 

Yeah, I guess I have a reading comprehension problem.

 

The purpose of the board is to discuss and even debate the topic. That is what we are doing and I see nothing wrong with that, therefore I will defer your e-mail invitation. The more people that can join in, the more productive the results.

 

BTW, do you understand my point...that you wont enjoy finding a cache that was hidden b/c someone felt guilted into it?

---

 

I enjoy this sport just fine, and more so in the making of a cache and placing it, I have referred to this posting and responded due to input from other cachers via e-mail and other posts. And not once was this set as a complaint, it was set as a suggestion and that only. but you go ahead and keep breaking up my posts and I will keep correcting what you are not understanding in what I am saying.I don't see you doing anything productive on this thread other than doing your best to being insulting...but I'll let that go. and of course you would pass over the e-mail invite. But in any case I wish you well. I also have hopes that things can be discussed a bit better in the future without bending statements. But then again maybe I need to make them a tad clearer when I make them.

ron had made mention of a cacher finding over 50 caches and not leaving any. This is what fueled my very first post. I myself will admit to only placing 3 caches and have 3 more ready to go, one of which I am trying to locate an area where wheelchairs can have access to so that nobody is left out of this sport( I got this idea from another topic thread)So now I have stated my views to this and stand by them, I don't want to see people abuse the sport anymore than you guys do. But I think we all agree that you can't have cache finders without cache placers and vise-versa. Have fun out there!

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-30-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Guest Quinnow]

Pete...I was agreeing with Ron streeter from the above post, and still didnt mention a one find for one placed cacher. I was saying to the people that have only gone out over and over and over again to find caches (meaning in the area of 20ish total) without placing any, it would be nice if they would place a couple if even one for someone else to find...and that was it and nothing more.

quote:

---

Originally posted by peter:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quinnow:

I put hours into thinking about where I will hide one, as well as the money put into making it and the cost of gas to take it out and place it. So for me to do all this for someone else to enjoy and give nothing back in return is kind of upsetting to me.

So for those of you that have run out into the field and cache hunted all day to return and brag about your finds, please remember that if it wasn't for us making them your GPS would still be on that shelf collecting dust. If you're not going to place any then don't go look for any either.

---

This is a hobby. If you don't enjoy putting together your caches and then getting emails from the seekers with descriptions of their experiences when searching for them, then don't do it. Complaining about your 'sacrifice' is likely to just turn people away from the activity entirely, which is presumably not what you're after. What's the point in placing caches if no one is going to be looking for them? If everyone followed the suggestion to place a cache for each one they found, then many caches would never be found and most would only be found once or twice - as a cache placer I wouldn't find that very satisfying.

 

And no, my GPS would certainly not be gathering dust on the shelf. It was being used for an average of several hours/day long before geocaching existed and will continue to be used for a wide variety of activities.

---

 

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest Quinnow]

I do agree with this except for the 23 finds and 4 placed. I think that is a fair amount. But the 14 finds and 0 placed is a bit out of whack.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

The topic of this thread got waylaid a bit, so to get it back on track....

 

I had some minor success in getting a few people to place some more caches, but there are still some who "just can't find the time" to plant a cache...too busy finding them !

 

I still consider anyone who has a dozen or more finds under their belt and from zero to 1 or 2 placements to be "geocache slackers".

 

The worst offenders in my area are:

 

23 finds......4 placements

14 finds......0 placements

 

I did find one fellow (I think in another state or the southern part of CA) who had 50 finds and zero placements...he's the record holder for the Gordon Gecko award.."Greed is good".

 

Thoughts?

---

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Guest Ron Streeter]

Guys, guys ! I'm starting to feel badly for having started this conversation. I got bleary eyed just reading the last couple of back and forths.

 

I have a new idea. Everyone thinks they are right and they are right.

 

Happy caching !

[Guest Quinnow]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

Guys, guys ! I'm starting to feel badly for having started this conversation. I got bleary eyed just reading the last couple of back and forths.

 

I have a new idea. Everyone thinks they are right and they are right.

 

Happy caching !

 

---

Ron...You are very correct. After going back and reading much of the last 3 or 4 posts that were made (even by me) I feel bad for even making them. I in no way want to give people the wrong impression of the sport by coming here and reading all this mumbo-jumbo. So therefore I am sorry for anything that might have been considered rude on my part. And yes!...lets just say that Geocaching needs both sides to live on.

I really do wish you all well in this sport, and hope that we can all see it grow to something huge!

 

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest kbraband]

I'm not going to add to the "ratio" argument. All I want to say deals with earlier postings in this folder regarding the price of disposable cameras. For my caches I bought cameras for $4.95 at WalMart and $4.95 at Target. You shouldn't need the kind with the flash because people shouldn't be out there stomping around after dark anyway.

[Guest Quinnow]

Ya know...I thought about that right after I bought three with the flash. Darn things cost a fortune to have an option that you won't use (flash) But maybe I'll get my moneys worth and it'll be gloomy on those geocaching days. Local news here wants to use them for another article follow up scheduled for next month, so I left notes in the caches not to take the pictures unless you didn't mind being seen. I'll get some of those camera's you mentioned and thanks !

 

Good Caching!

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-31-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 04-06-2001).]

[Guest Quinnow]

Ya know...I thought about that right after I bought three with the flash. Darn things cost a fortune to have an option that you won't use (flash) But maybe I'll get my moneys worth and it'll be gloomy on those geocaching days. Local news here wants to use them for another article follow up scheduled for next month, so I left notes in the caches not to take the pictures unless you didn't mind being seen. I'll get some of those camera's you mentioned and thanks !

 

Good Caching!

 

------------------

Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03-31-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 04-06-2001).]

[Guest kbraband]

I meant to write $4.95 at Target and $4.99 at WalMart, in case you wondered why I was redundant. Anyway... Quinnow, I bet you can get a good deal on cameras from Kodak there in Rochester.

 

[This message has been edited by kbraband (edited 04-01-2001).]