+tweetiepy Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 My 13 year old son has an account but hasn't been logging his finds online. He started but didn't want to do it anymore (his choice) he can pick it up later if he caches without me. Is this a problem? I mean when he decides to log his finds online later, the map won't accurately reflect his finds and he'll have to find out which one's he's done but for the here and now, is it a problem? Will a CO see his signature and not see his online log and think it's wrong? I know he should log them but I guess this is his way of playing. I mean it's better than logging his finds online and NOT signing the log. Quote Link to comment
+ngrrfan Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 My 13 year old son has an account but hasn't been logging his finds online. He started but didn't want to do it anymore (his choice) he can pick it up later if he caches without me. Is this a problem? I mean when he decides to log his finds online later, the map won't accurately reflect his finds and he'll have to find out which one's he's done but for the here and now, is it a problem? Will a CO see his signature and not see his online log and think it's wrong? I know he should log them but I guess this is his way of playing. I mean it's better than logging his finds online and NOT signing the log. Who says that anyone HAS to log a find online? I cache with someone that has absolutely no interest in logging their finds online, they just want to get out and walk/hike and get exercise and they do so by geocaching. I see no problem at all with him not logging finds online, it is how he "plays the game." Quote Link to comment
+redwoodkestrel Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Who says that anyone HAS to log a find online? I cache with someone that has absolutely no interest in logging their finds online, they just want to get out and walk/hike and get exercise and they do so by geocaching. I see no problem at all with him not logging finds online, it is how he "plays the game." You must've missed the last page of this thread. Some folks definitely believe that you should be logging online if you found a cache! I'm pretty neutral about it. I log all of my finds online, but it doesn't really bother me if someone finds one of my caches but doesn't log it online. I'm much more opinionated about the opposite: logging it online but not finding it! Edited July 25, 2013 by redwoodkestrel Quote Link to comment
+uxorious Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 While I do agree with those that feel it is polite to let the CO know you enjoyed their cache with an online log. I do know a couple people who do not log on line for various reasons. There is no rule/guideline that requires an online log, just the signature in the cache log. Quote Link to comment
Space*Cadet Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 My 13 year old son has an account but hasn't been logging his finds online. He started but didn't want to do it anymore (his choice) he can pick it up later if he caches without me. Is this a problem? I mean when he decides to log his finds online later, the map won't accurately reflect his finds and he'll have to find out which one's he's done but for the here and now, is it a problem? Will a CO see his signature and not see his online log and think it's wrong? I know he should log them but I guess this is his way of playing. I mean it's better than logging his finds online and NOT signing the log. I'm Terrible about logging my finds! I enjoy the hike and the hunt but just can't seem to take the time to go online and log it! I know I've found hundreds and signed all the logs of the caches I've found! I'm just not into the online record I guess? I did try to go back and log some a few months ago, but it bored me! Quote Link to comment
RagnoJr Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I cache both with my 11 year old daughter and without her. After she had gone along with me a few times, she requested her own GC account. Although she loves finding those larger caches with great swag items and signing the physical logs, she isn't very fond of going online and logging her finds. Initially, she was pretty good about logging her finds online, but not so much anymore. So, when she does cache with me I let her sign the physical logs for both of us and I do the online logging. It's a great way to keep her interested and keep her statistics accurate. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Whenever I've audited my logs, there are always MORE signatures on the physical log than online. I suspect most are newbie cachers, people tagging along, friendly muggles and kids. Don't have a problem with these. Haven't seen any signatures that are obviously from adults who cache regularly but never log online. My daughter (12) started her own account and logged a few. She hasn't bothered logging for a while, although we have a family account anyway, so we log through there. If she signs the log, she uses our family account name. Doesn't really make sense to sign the physical log if you're not going to log online, kid or adult. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Who says that anyone HAS to log a find online? I cache with someone that has absolutely no interest in logging their finds online, they just want to get out and walk/hike and get exercise and they do so by geocaching. Another adult that thinks geocaches are placed by magical gnomes? I suppose your friend finds it too much trouble to thank someone when they hold a door open for them? I mean, everyone has to do what feels right for them, correct? If you're an adult who caches regularly, you should log your finds online. Just because nobody is holding a gun to your head, doesn't mean you're excused from basic courtesy. Edited July 25, 2013 by The_Incredibles_ Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I know people who never post online find logs. Some started playing before there were online find logs, and never saw a reason to start. Some are concerned about online privacy, and never post online finds because those are searchable by others. I also know people who are months behind on their logging, and others who have been months behind on their logging. I don't think it's a big deal. Quote Link to comment
+Bear and Ragged Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Log or not log. -Who cares? So long as he logs any TB's he moves properly, I have no problem with him not logging online. Quote Link to comment
+fishgeek Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I don't hold doors open for people because I want to hear them say "Thank You", but because it's the right thing to do. I don't hide caches because I want to hear finders praise my efforts, but because it's the right thing, and because I like hiding them. The key to maximizing your enjoyment of this hobby is to be content with the things you do, and not worry about what others are doing. Everyone plays this game differently, and I can only control what I do. Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Log or not log. -Who cares? So long as he logs any TB's he moves properly, I have no problem with him not logging online. I agree with Da Bear. It won't be helpful to try and force someone to log online. If they don't enjoy it, then they don't need to do it. It would be taking a fun hobby and turning it into homework for the kid. People who are doing "lonely caches" challenges might be ticked off to find out that that cache that didn't appear to be found for 6 months or more had indeed been found, but that's the breaks you have to deal with when participating in challenges. The only thing that might be a problem is if in the future he wishes he had logged online. That could be quite a project. More important to me is logging DNF's online. It's important that dnf's get logged online, to show a history of potential problems, lack of owner maintenance, etc. B. Edited July 25, 2013 by Pup Patrol Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Some geocaches are indeed placed by magical gnomes, fairies, and drunken wildebeests. Many of these creatures also do not log online because the important part of the game is never behind a computer screen. It's nothing to be concerned about, nor is it worth chastising them to conform. Quote Link to comment
tomowens Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) If my only log is in the logbook, then the CO has to either bring an eraser or tear out the page to delete my log. I usually don't see much use in the on-line logs if everything is fine with the cache and there is nothing to bring to the attention of the CO. If you want to read my story, it's in the book. Edited July 25, 2013 by tomowens Quote Link to comment
+Roman! Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Some geocaches are indeed placed by magical gnomes, fairies, and drunken wildebeests. Many of these creatures also do not log online because the important part of the game is never behind a computer screen. Explain puzzle caches then. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Some geocaches are indeed placed by magical gnomes, fairies, and drunken wildebeests. Many of these creatures also do not log online because the important part of the game is never behind a computer screen. Explain puzzle caches then. Puzzle caches are often found by those who do not solve them, ask others, as well as the owner for help. The important part is not behind a computer screen. Try logging a find by only solving them, and there will be irate COs. By contrast, PAF someone for the answer and not many will object. Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 It's a personal problem he will have to (possibly) deal with for himself should the day arrive. No need for you as a parent to try to force him to log the caches, just point out the potential issues that might come up if they are not logged. Perhaps someday you will be in your rocker at the retirement home and saying 'I TOLD YOU SO!'. Quote Link to comment
+tweetiepy Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 My son and I cache together, I mention online that the cache was found with him, so basically, for now, any DNFs are logged - My account is like the family account with a side account that's rarely used. I log the finds because I like to know where which ones are done Quote Link to comment
+mikemtn Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I have never understood the thinking that if enough people want to make up their own rules then the rest of us get brainwashed into thinking it's OK. Geocaching in the beginning was an internet based game and logging online was an important aspect of the game. It has become accepted that there are no rules for Geocaching. This is not true. The following is from Geocaching 101 Geocaching 101 Welcome to the geocaching community! If you still have questions after reviewing this information, we recommend that you search our Help Center or ask a question in the geocaching Forums. The Game What is geocaching? How is the game played? What are the rules of geocaching? 1. If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value. 2. Write about your find in the cache logbook. 3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Some people still play by the old rules: "Take some stuff, leave some stuff! Record it all in the log book. Have Fun!" Quote Link to comment
+badger10 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) There are four cachers in my family. We all have our own accounts. I always log my finds. The others rarely log their finds. Sometimes all four of us cache and sometimes it's only me. If we get tb's I log on to their accounts and log it for them. It works for us. I am always (so far) with them when they cache so our finds are always logged just not by all of those caching. Edited July 27, 2013 by badger10 Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I have never understood the thinking that if enough people want to make up their own rules then the rest of us get brainwashed into thinking it's OK. Geocaching in the beginning was an internet based game and logging online was an important aspect of the game. It has become accepted that there are no rules for Geocaching. This is not true. The following is from Geocaching 101 Geocaching 101 Welcome to the geocaching community! If you still have questions after reviewing this information, we recommend that you search our Help Center or ask a question in the geocaching Forums. The Game What is geocaching? How is the game played? What are the rules of geocaching? 1. If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value. 2. Write about your find in the cache logbook. 3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com. It was predictable that someone would start quoting from parts of the Geocaching.com website to support a particular view of the game, even if, when taken in context, the section they quote has no such meaning. These "so-called" rules are not immutable. They have changed over time. In the original format (which was in effect for the first six years or so of geocaching) there was no mention at all of logging online. The "rules" originally came from Dave Ulmer's instructions that were posted on the USENET when he hid the first cache. "Take some stuff, leave some stuff! Record it all in the log book. Have Fun!" Groundspeak paraphrased this when they published the fist geocaching FAQ. 1. Take something. 2. Leave something. 3. Write about it in the log book. These weren't meant to be unbreakable rules. They were just instructions that describe what most people would do when they found a geocache. Three short simple rules express the idea that this is a simple, fun, game and not one with a thick rule book that specifies sanctions for each and every violation of the rules. About six years into it, Groundspeak decided that these "rules" were a little out of date. By this time many caches no longer contained items to trade. Rather than take up two rules for trading they made it one rule. They also added a maxim that had developed in the forum at least about fair trading. The rule became "If you take something from the geocach, leave something of equal or greater value," Personally, I find this absurd. Who decides the value of items? Do I have to become a professional appraiser in order to geocache? And just how is this rule going to be enforced? Is someone following me around to make sure when I take an item I leave something of greater value? Having only two rules didn't seem right. TPTB decided to add a third rule about logging your experience on www.geocaching.com. I probably actually complained in the forums about this one. Again - how was this going to be enforced? Was Groundspeak going send out goons to beat up people who signed a physical log and then didn't log online? At least they didn't go into any detail about which log to use or how much you needed to write. My guess is that after six years it had become common practice to share one's experiences using online logs and TPTB felt that this should be included in instructions for newbies. The truth is there will always been people who don't log online. Perhaps they are hikers who found the cache by accident. Maybe they are friends of cachers who don't want to set up an account for some activity they may only do once or twice. There are certainly children of geocachers who can't be bothered to sit down and write a log for each cache they found along with their parents. And there are many geocachers who simply don't want to log every cache they find. TPTB can put whatever they like in the so-called "rules", it doesn't mean that people actually have to play that way. Quote Link to comment
+K13 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Groundspeak's desire for logging finds online likely has more to do with generating visits to the site than anything else. More site visits = more advertising value. I have probably more finds not logged online than I do logged finds. Sometimes the "Thumper Rule" is the way I do things. (If you don't have sumthin' nice to say, don't say nuthin' at all) Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 While nobody must log their finds, I think it is the polite thing to do. If the cache owner spent the time, money and effort to hide the cache for your enjoyment, the least you can do is let him know you found his cache. Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 If you want a smiley, then you should log the cache on-line. Other than that what's going to happen? Will some frog steal your GPSr? Will the CO white-out your name? (Well, I did have that happen once...) Yes. It is nice to know that someone has found your cache, but: No. It is not 'required.' There are a lot of caches who do not log on-line. I do think that logging DNFs is highly over-rated. I do not need to know that the 27 drunken cachers got lost in the woods. That just clutters up the page with useless information. And MOST DNFs do not give the CO any useful information. Quote Link to comment
+TerraViators Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 While nobody must log their finds, I think it is the polite thing to do. If the cache owner spent the time, money and effort to hide the cache for your enjoyment, the least you can do is let him know you found his cache. I agree, in theory. Logging a "Found it" log is not the only way to let COs know you found their geocaches. Send an e-mail, write a note if you don't want to officially record a find or write it in the physical log book. Going out on a limb here, but I assume most COs can actually read the physical record. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) While nobody must log their finds, I think it is the polite thing to do. If the cache owner spent the time, money and effort to hide the cache for your enjoyment, the least you can do is let him know you found his cache. I agree, in theory. Logging a "Found it" log is not the only way to let COs know you found their geocaches. Send an e-mail, write a note if you don't want to officially record a find or write it in the physical log book. Going out on a limb here, but I assume most COs can actually read the physical record. Seems silly. If someone is going to take the trouble to send an e-mail or write a note, then why not simply use the tool this website provides for notifying the CO that the cache was found? As for the physical log, the owner may never get to see it for a number of reasons. Edited July 28, 2013 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Seems silly. If someone is going to take the trouble to send an e-mail or write a note, then why not simply use the tool this website provides for notifying the CO that the cache was found? A possible reason might be someone doesn't want their activities publicly tracked. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Seems silly. If someone is going to take the trouble to send an e-mail or write a note, then why not simply use the tool this website provides for notifying the CO that the cache was found? A possible reason might be someone doesn't want their activities publicly tracked. Wouldn't logging a note do the same? Edited July 28, 2013 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Finding my cache but not logging online is one of those things that i might never even know happened and therefore wouldn't matter to me. On the otherhand, i wouldn't mind at all if a "non logging" person contacted me if they discovered a problem with one of my caches. Quote Link to comment
+suchanana Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 My 13 year old son has an account but hasn't been logging his finds online. He started but didn't want to do it anymore (his choice) he can pick it up later if he caches without me. Is this a problem? I mean when he decides to log his finds online later, the map won't accurately reflect his finds and he'll have to find out which one's he's done but for the here and now, is it a problem? Will a CO see his signature and not see his online log and think it's wrong? I know he should log them but I guess this is his way of playing. I mean it's better than logging his finds online and NOT signing the log. as my grandkidzzzz have aged,of late they have also neglected the logging their own accounts online aspect... methinks this is due to that puberty imbalance we've all experienced ... that being said, i still did the Nana bit,reminding them about geo-etiquette to thank the CO for their efforts by sharing their experience...hopefully someday the guilt seed i planted will take hold - until then, i shall continue my own geo-habits, knowing others will follow theirs... Your son's signature on the log showed the CO he cared enough to search and find; perhaps someday he'll share the experience of the find with the CO - you lead by example - it's the best you can do at this age... Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Seems silly. If someone is going to take the trouble to send an e-mail or write a note, then why not simply use the tool this website provides for notifying the CO that the cache was found? A possible reason might be someone doesn't want their activities publicly tracked. Wouldn't logging a note do the same? I'm pretty sure that notes don't show up on the list when the "All Geocache Finds" link is clicked on the public profile page. Quote Link to comment
+mikemtn Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Seems silly. If someone is going to take the trouble to send an e-mail or write a note, then why not simply use the tool this website provides for notifying the CO that the cache was found? A possible reason might be someone doesn't want their activities publicly tracked. I'm thinking that using the internet or a cell phone is not the place for someone that doesn't want their activities publicly tracked. Edited July 28, 2013 by mikemtn Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Seems silly. If someone is going to take the trouble to send an e-mail or write a note, then why not simply use the tool this website provides for notifying the CO that the cache was found? A possible reason might be someone doesn't want their activities publicly tracked. I'm thinking that using the internet or a cell phone is not the place for someone that doesn't want their activities publicly tracked. It's probably a tiny minority of cachers who don't log because they don't want to be tracked. Probably the larger group of non-loggers are people who cache with active geocachers and are only along for company, i.e. aren't into geocaching. Quote Link to comment
+agltbialik Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I don't hold doors open for people because I want to hear them say "Thank You", but because it's the right thing to do. I don't hide caches because I want to hear finders praise my efforts, but because it's the right thing, and because I like hiding them. The key to maximizing your enjoyment of this hobby is to be content with the things you do, and not worry about what others are doing. Everyone plays this game differently, and I can only control what I do. Agreed, whole heartedly. I've had this discussion with other cachers ad infinitium. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Is this a problem? Not really. Personally, I think it's a little bit rude, but it's not something I can get worked up about. In my opinion, if you spent a long time creating a cache, common courtesy requires that I post something, sharing my adventure with you. Sort of a carrot/stick thing. I suspect that if there were no online logs posted on any caches, this hobby would have never clawed it's way out of the dark ages. But it's still his choice. I would much rather have no log, than a "TFTC" log. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I don't hold doors open for people because I want to hear them say "Thank You", but because it's the right thing to do. I don't hide caches because I want to hear finders praise my efforts, but because it's the right thing, and because I like hiding them. The key to maximizing your enjoyment of this hobby is to be content with the things you do, and not worry about what others are doing. Everyone plays this game differently, and I can only control what I do. Agreed, whole heartedly. I've had this discussion with other cachers ad infinitium. If I held doors for people and they responded by ignoring my gesture, I wouldn't bother holding a door open. Waste of effort, since it doesn't seem to be necessary or appreciated. Same for caches. If my caches were greeted with silence I'd stop planting them. Waste of effort. I hide caches because I want to provide a good caching experience. The last few I planted I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to create something that would get favorite votes and good logs. If I didn't get the positive feedback I wouldn't be inspired to try new things. The positive feedback also makes me want to get out and maintain our caches so people find a clean cache with a dry logbook and some decent swag. Without the positive feedback I suspect the game would be even more about smileys. Without feedback, people who feel compelled to hide caches would probably hide minimalist caches (a logsheet in a free container). 1 Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) I don't hold doors open for people because I want to hear them say "Thank You", but because it's the right thing to do. I don't hide caches because I want to hear finders praise my efforts, but because it's the right thing, and because I like hiding them. The key to maximizing your enjoyment of this hobby is to be content with the things you do, and not worry about what others are doing. Everyone plays this game differently, and I can only control what I do. Agreed, whole heartedly. I've had this discussion with other cachers ad infinitium. I agree, however would you still spend the time, effort and money to hide and maintain caches if you had no idea if they were being enjoyed? I don't hide caches for thanks either, but the early feedback from the logs on my first few caches told me that people were enjoying my efforts and spurred me on to hide more. One early log said "thanks for this opportunity to bond with my daughters". It made me think that if the the simple act of hiding a cache can bring joy to someone, I'm in. Without the early positive feedback I probably would have decided to spend my time and money elsewhere where it would do more good. About the same time I started geocaching, I got into Bookcrossing. If you aren't familiar with it, the point is to leave books in random places with a tracking number, website URL and explanation of Bookcrossing inside. Finders were supposed to log on the Bookcrossing site that they found the book, write what they thought about it and then pass it on in the same manner. I thought it would be a great way to share books that I enjoyed with others. The dearth of logs on the books I left caused me to stop using the site. Did someone find them, did they read them, did they enjoy them, or did they just wind up in the trash? Without logs I had no idea and without that feedback, positive or negative, I figured there were better ways to share the books. It wasn't about being thanked, it was about knowing that my effort wasn't wasted. I suspect that if there were no online logs posted on any caches, this hobby would have never clawed it's way out of the dark ages. Letterboxing had a 100 plus year head start on geocaching. In the US it had nearly 10 years on geocaching. However the first LB website had no facility for online logs, so the only way to know if anybody found the box would be to make the journey out to each one and check. Kind of a time consuming way to do it. Then geocaching came along and became huge (relatively speaking). That despite the fact that geocaching required expensive equipment and all a LBer needed was a $1 block of stamp making material and a notebook. I think the online logs and sense of community and shared adventures the online geocaching logs provided were a big part of the difference. How many here have not had a conversation with another geocacher they just met start with "I read your log for...". I believe logging online is simply the polite thing to do. For those who prefer not to for whatever reason, that's their beeswax, but if everyone had their attitude I doubt geocaching would be where it is today. Edited July 29, 2013 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+BAMBOOZLE Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Who says that anyone HAS to log a find online? I cache with someone that has absolutely no interest in logging their finds online, they just want to get out and walk/hike and get exercise and they do so by geocaching. Another adult that thinks geocaches are placed by magical gnomes? I suppose your friend finds it too much trouble to thank someone when they hold a door open for them? I mean, everyone has to do what feels right for them, correct? If you're an adult who caches regularly, you should log your finds online. Just because nobody is holding a gun to your head, doesn't mean you're excused from basic courtesy. +1. Quote Link to comment
+Chief301 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) Everybody plays the game their own way, I guess, but really, why would anyone not want to log their finds online? Unless they're the type who would just "TFTC" everything, in which case all their logs would be the same. Me, I like to write a little something about the hunt, and it's fun to go back through some of my old logs and reminisce about some cool caches I've found. To not do that, to me, would be like going on vacation and not taking any pictures 📷 Edited July 29, 2013 by Chief301 Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I don't hold doors open for people because I want to hear them say "Thank You", but because it's the right thing to do. I don't hide caches because I want to hear finders praise my efforts, but because it's the right thing, and because I like hiding them. The key to maximizing your enjoyment of this hobby is to be content with the things you do, and not worry about what others are doing. Everyone plays this game differently, and I can only control what I do. Agreed, whole heartedly. I've had this discussion with other cachers ad infinitium. I agree, however would you still spend the time, effort and money to hide and maintain caches if you had no idea if they were being enjoyed? I don't hide caches for thanks either, but the early feedback from the logs on my first few caches told me that people were enjoying my efforts and spurred me on to hide more. One early log said "thanks for this opportunity to bond with my daughters". It made me think that if the the simple act of hiding a cache can bring joy to someone, I'm in. Without the early positive feedback I probably would have decided to spend my time and money elsewhere where it would do more good. About the same time I started geocaching, I got into Bookcrossing. If you aren't familiar with it, the point is to leave books in random places with a tracking number, website URL and explanation of Bookcrossing inside. Finders were supposed to log on the Bookcrossing site that they found the book, write what they thought about it and then pass it on in the same manner. I thought it would be a great way to share books that I enjoyed with others. The dearth of logs on the books I left caused me to stop using the site. Did someone find them, did they read them, did they enjoy them, or did they just wind up in the trash? Without logs I had no idea and without that feedback, positive or negative, I figured there were better ways to share the books. It wasn't about being thanked, it was about knowing that my effort wasn't wasted. I suspect that if there were no online logs posted on any caches, this hobby would have never clawed it's way out of the dark ages. Letterboxing had a 100 plus year head start on geocaching. In the US it had nearly 10 years on geocaching. However the first LB website had no facility for online logs, so the only way to know if anybody found the box would be to make the journey out to each one and check. Kind of a time consuming way to do it. Then geocaching came along and became huge (relatively speaking). That despite the fact that geocaching required expensive equipment and all a LBer needed was a $1 block of stamp making material and a notebook. I think the online logs and sense of community and shared adventures the online geocaching logs provided were a big part of the difference. How many here have not had a conversation with another geocacher they just met start with "I read your log for...". I believe logging online is simply the polite thing to do. For those who prefer not to for whatever reason, that's their beeswax, but if everyone had their attitude I doubt geocaching would be where it is today. Very well said. I still, on an almost daily basis, go back through my 'found it' list and see which ones have been found in the last day or two and read the new logs. I enjoy reading online logs (except, of course, for the "tftc!" or "TNLNSL" logs) and I would very likely lose interest if there was no 'real time' sort of activity to look at. As for the "tracking" aspect...it's just a little strange, I guess. I mean, this is tracking only in the historical sense...seeing where a person has been minutes, hours or sometimes days later. There's very little context about where they are coming from or where they are going. If that is enough to concern you, perhaps you should not be engaging in LOCATION-BASED ACTIVITIES that involved logging into a site, downloading specific location markers for a given area and using a high-tech device to track them down. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Logging online is the polite thing to do, but calling someone greedy and thoughtless for not logging online is not very polite either. In the beginning when geocaching started most people wrote a page of comments in the logbook. The logbook in the cache was what was important. It was nice to read all of the comments from those who had just found it. The logging online part was just to verify and communicate mostly secondary information that was in the logbook. The owner would make visits to read the comments which were fresh from the find only minutes before. Lately however nobody writes much other than a username and date because the online part has been overemphasized to keep meaningless numbers and stats recorded for others to peruse. If there are those cachers that wish to deemphasize it, then that is their choice. COs would probably like to have control of their cache from the comfort of home and reading the online logs, but there is no substitution for getting off your arse and visiting them. Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Logging online is the polite thing to do, but calling someone greedy and thoughtless for not logging online is not very polite either. In the beginning when geocaching started most people wrote a page of comments in the logbook. The logbook in the cache was what was important. It was nice to read all of the comments from those who had just found it. The logging online part was just to verify and communicate mostly secondary information that was in the logbook. The owner would make visits to read the comments which were fresh from the find only minutes before. Lately however nobody writes much other than a username and date because the online part has been overemphasized to keep meaningless numbers and stats recorded for others to peruse. If there are those cachers that wish to deemphasize it, then that is their choice. COs would probably like to have control of their cache from the comfort of home and reading the online logs, but there is no substitution for getting off your arse and visiting them. Well...to be honest, I'd rather read typed/online logs. First, because most people don't have legible handwriting. Add to that the effects of moisture and you're lucky if even the NAME is legible, much less the text of their adventure. At least the online logs won't get lost with the passage of time like ink does. Second, because of the popularity of micros and urban hides, most people do not have the ability to write more than a name and date, be it due to time, muggles or space...or all three. Third, many folks like to give a log some thought before writing it down. I prefer not to be 'put on the spot' when writing a lengthier description of my search and the events surrounding it. Lastly, one word: photographs. Quote Link to comment
+TerraViators Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Lately however nobody writes much other than a username and date because the online part has been overemphasized to keep meaningless numbers and stats recorded for others to peruse. Yet, almost everybody will tell you it's not about the numbers...but apparently, sometimes, it is about the numbers. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) Well, you guys are not going to encourage anyone to log their finds online by calling them names and making them feel guilty and shameful. You would have never had known that unless they volunteered that information anyhow. Now are they going to log online? Or rather have they learned to keep their mouth shut and stay out of the forums? 'selfish' and 'inconsiderate' It's creepy at best. It is the height of rudeness do it to steal TB rude I started geocaching in 2001. I got the coordinates, went to the location and signed my real name in the logbook. I thought going back to the computer to duplicate the process was silly. A year later I signed up and went back and logged a few from the year before, but logging late was such a chore that I never did log them all. Even today there are several dozen that I haven't logged yet, some go back to April and earlier. There really isn't much to say on many occasions. The amount of people that never log any finds are very small IMO. There are many more that don't log their DNFs. Some won't ever log Needs Maintenance, and will not indicate any obvious problems in their find log. Others will never log a Needs Archived. In fact many people wont even log Owner Maintenance to clear NM flags. They replace and enable the cache, and that's it. Calling them names will not inspire any new log habits. Its like the guy who is tailgating in an effort to get me to speed up. Do you know what I do? I slow down and set the cruise control for 1 mile over the speed limit. If I notice they are drinking coffee, I hit the brakes. It's rather nice when people log their finds online, but if they don't, they are not entitled to be called names. Edited July 30, 2013 by 4wheelin_fool Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Well, you guys are not going to encourage anyone to log their finds online by calling them names... You may be right. For the record, I'm not trying to change that one person's behavior. Someone who comes on these forums and brags about not logging on line, (Naner naner naner! I'm not logging! And there's nothing you can do about it!), is unlikely to be swayed by anything I have to say. Rather, I would hope to sway those who are sitting on the fence, not really sure if they should be logging or not. Some of these folks might be empathic enough to recognize that their past decision not to log their efforts can have a negative impact on others. By saying nothing, there will be no change in behavior. By answering honestly when asked for an opinion, there might be a change in behavior. Not logging is rude. We shouldn't shirk from saying so. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Well, you guys are not going to encourage anyone to log their finds online by calling them names... You may be right. For the record, I'm not trying to change that one person's behavior. Someone who comes on these forums and brags about not logging on line, (Naner naner naner! I'm not logging! And there's nothing you can do about it!), is unlikely to be swayed by anything I have to say. Rather, I would hope to sway those who are sitting on the fence, not really sure if they should be logging or not. Some of these folks might be empathic enough to recognize that their past decision not to log their efforts can have a negative impact on others. By saying nothing, there will be no change in behavior. By answering honestly when asked for an opinion, there might be a change in behavior. Not logging is rude. We shouldn't shirk from saying so. I've read his posts and the bragging is nonexistent. Honestly I don't see any. He only volunteered the info during a discussion about those who get annoyed by not logging FTF right away. Frankly it seems that quite a few feel entitled to a online log, and yet there are others who feel that they don't want to log online. Dave Ulmer still finds geocaches and doesn't log much online. Why do you think that is? The game has slowly devolved mainly due to the obsessive online logging. How many people are going to do a powertrail and not log them? The entire point is the online part. Why are there so many cachers that drop out? They just aren't interested. There is a few thousand wet caches listed in Groundspeak's inventory in which the CO hasn't visited the site and lost interest. A new cacher has posted a thread in which he noticed all the caches in his area are lame. He's only logged 2, because the others just sucked. At some point you may learn to respect those who don't feed the smiley obsession and do it only because it's fun. Here is an e-mail I just received from someone who doesn't participate in the forums anymore: THANK YOU for your level-headed responses about 'not logging online'. I find most of the other replies foolish and shake my head at the HATE coming from those who 'call names' about it. I don't log online because geocaching was never meant to be 'about the numbers'...so by not logging online there is no race, no competition, no worries and no elitist attitude from others who may have more finds. It's no ones business how many 'finds' I have. Actually, 'numbers' have taken the game far from its original intent and as a result there is now a proliferation of trashy micros and 'power trails' littered across the land. I don't even recognize this game anymore. Well, thanks again for your replies on the issue. Common sense, thank you! Perhaps people who read the forums but don't post anything are selfish, inconsiderate, and rude also? I don't think so. Instead of berating those that are different, perhaps you should examine their motives. Not the motives you assume, but the real reason for their behavior. If someone doesn't want to log online, I respect that. Quote Link to comment
+redsox_mark Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think it is OK not to log online if that is what one prefers. However for me the online logging is an important part of the game. Not for the numbers (though I do like statistics), but: 1. For the history (I like going back and reading my old logs long after) 2. For the benefit of providing feedback to the owner 3. For the benefit of providing feedback to future finders. 4. For the social aspect - seeing logs by names I recognize at events; and the occasional direct dialog which sometimes results from an online log. 5. For the ease of keeping track of what I have found and what I have not. And probably more reasons I haven't thought of.. My experience is most people do log online. So if a some don't; it is no big deal. If there wasn't any online logging I don't think the game would be as good (in my opinion). Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think it is OK not to log online if that is what one prefers. However for me the online logging is an important part of the game. Not for the numbers (though I do like statistics), but: 1. For the history (I like going back and reading my old logs long after) 2. For the benefit of providing feedback to the owner 3. For the benefit of providing feedback to future finders. 4. For the social aspect - seeing logs by names I recognize at events; and the occasional direct dialog which sometimes results from an online log. 5. For the ease of keeping track of what I have found and what I have not. And probably more reasons I haven't thought of.. My experience is most people do log online. So if a some don't; it is no big deal. If there wasn't any online logging I don't think the game would be as good (in my opinion). I completly agree with every point. The one time I wish someone HAD logged online was when I put out my first TBs. They say unlogged for over a month and when I went to check on them, they were gone and someone had signed the log. If they had logged online, I would have had a starting point on tracking them down. Quote Link to comment
+CanadianRockies Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 What are the rules of geocaching? 1. If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value. 2. Write about your find in the cache logbook. 3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com. I guess I violate Rule #2 on a regular basis, since I never write about my Virtual, EarthCache, or WebCam finds in the cache logbooks. For the physical caches, I sometimes write about the finds in the logbooks, but I usually only write the date and my name. I suppose I also violate Rule #1 when I remove a trackable item without leaving anything. Quote Link to comment
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