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Language used in descriptions


*Sampo*

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While on holidays in Finland we had a bad experience in reading the descriptions on internet. Nowadays many people speak English. But the

Finnish descriptions and posted logs are in Finnish! It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a small translation in English. A task for the volunteers to give an extra impuls to the new cache placers?

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While on holidays in Finland we had a bad experience in reading the descriptions on internet. Nowadays many people speak English. But the

Finnish descriptions and posted logs are in Finnish! It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a small translation in English. A task for the volunteers to give an extra impuls to the new cache placers?

 

It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a translation in Finnish, Swedish, French, German, etc.

:blink:

 

Or maybe we should just write our descriptions in the native language of the country we are hiding them in, and not expect the rest of the world to cater to us.

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While on holidays in Finland we had a bad experience in reading the descriptions on internet. Nowadays many people speak English. But the

Finnish descriptions and posted logs are in Finnish! It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a small translation in English. A task for the volunteers to give an extra impuls to the new cache placers?

 

I don't understand.... If I were in Finland, I would expect that everything would be in Finnish... Just like if I were in France, I would expect everything to be in French and if I am in the USA, I would expect it to be in English. We can't plan for every language that could possibly visit our caches... so I wouldn't expect people in Finland to translate their caches for people who speak English...

 

Part of the added challenge for caching in another country would be to do your own translating! I think with a little planning, it wouldn't be too difficult. Almost makes every geocache a puzzle cache! :D

Edited by Rosie_Posie
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While on holidays in Finland we had a bad experience in reading the descriptions on internet. Nowadays many people speak English. But the

Finnish descriptions and posted logs are in Finnish! It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a small translation in English. A task for the volunteers to give an extra impuls to the new cache placers?

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It would be difficult for a person to write an English description if they don't know English.

 

Surely - it would be nice if Groundspeak could automatically translate it.... but that's a LOT of work in terms of design/engineering/time/cost

 

Have you tried using Google Translate? I use that a lot when looking at foreign logs/descriptions etc.

https://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT

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I think it would be nice for every cache in Germany to be in German to have a German translation available...and every one in the United States to be English one way or another...but I think its a bit heavy handed to expect caches in Finland to be in English. We are not the primary language there.

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While on holidays in Finland we had a bad experience in reading the descriptions on internet. Nowadays many people speak English. But the

Finnish descriptions and posted logs are in Finnish! It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a small translation in English.

I'm always puzzled by statements like these. It seems to imply that it's only English speakers that travel. What about all those French, Germans, Czechs, etc. that travel to North America or other English-speaking countries? I bet they'd like all those English-text caches to have a translation into their own language.

 

Cache descriptions should be written in the most dominant local language. If it's a location frequented by many tourists, and the cache owner is able, additional translations would be a bonus, but they certainly shouldn't be required. When travelling to a country that doesn't use your native language, expect to find stuff written in something other than your native language. When I travelled through France a few years ago, I didn't get annoyed and wasn't surprised when I found that many signs were written in French.

 

Edit for typo

Edited by The A-Team
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While on holidays in Finland we had a bad experience in reading the descriptions on internet. Nowadays many people speak English. But the

Finnish descriptions and posted logs are in Finnish! It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a small translation in English.

I'm always puzzled by statements like these. It seems to imply that it's only English speakers that travel. What about all those French, Germans, Czechs, etc. that travel to North America or other English-speaking countries? I bet they'd like all those English-text caches to have a translation into their own language.

 

I think you'll find the OP is French - at least they live in France.

 

Anyway, as an ignorant lazy English speaker with little bits and pieces only of a couple of other languages... I would personally never be so arrogant as to expect the world to speak English just for me, however, I have seen this topic come up before a number of times from non-native-English speakers who simply see English as a common language between themselves and others of many other nationalities.

 

If geocaching had been around 100 or 200 years ago, it might have been "why aren't all cache descriptions translated into French, the language of diplomacy?" ;)

 

But anyway, once again, I'd never ask for or expect this myself, but I can sympathise with others of Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, etc native tongue who see English as simply becoming more and more widespread the common way of communicating between them, irrespective of us English-only speakers.

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Google Translate before you go off and cache?

 

Requires Internet access. Frequently in Europe I don't have it; all I have are the PQs I brought from home. And one cannot always know ahead of time which caches they will have an opportunity to seek.

 

That said, I disagree with the OP. I think non-English caches are a fun challenge! Sometimes I can't figure out enough to find the cache, but it's a lot of fun to try.

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While on holidays in Finland we had a bad experience in reading the descriptions on internet. Nowadays many people speak English. But the

Finnish descriptions and posted logs are in Finnish! It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a small translation in English. A task for the volunteers to give an extra impuls to the new cache placers?

 

I have cached in over 40 countries and haven't had any trouble with non English cache listing. It is fun to learn some of the local language and interact with the locals. I translate some of the caches I know that I will be doing and for others I use my smartphone to do an on the spot translation. I always buy a SIM card from a local carrier so cost is minimal.

 

If you are having so much trouble then only cache in English speaking countries.

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Olen yhdistettiin kaksi keskusteluja samasta aiheesta.

 

I have a neigbor who is from Finland.

 

She said Keystone's note says "I have married two discus throwers with the same hairdo."

If you have a problem with my lifestyle choice, I fear that your forum posting career will cross the Finnish line.

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I have cached in over 40 countries and haven't had any trouble with non English cache listing. It is fun to learn some of the local language and interact with the locals. I translate some of the caches I know that I will be doing and for others I use my smartphone to do an on the spot translation.

 

The question is how many more involved multi or mystery caches have you visited based on listings in languages you do not know at all?

Google translations lead to trash in those cases. For example, the two caches you visited in Austria do not impress me at all. One could find them without knowing what the description is saying. But try to find one of mine without understanding the description at all. Moreover, geocaching is much more for me than finding a box and signing the log book. I wish to understand the information provided about the places I'm going to visit. Otherwise, I'm better off my guide books than with geocaching.

 

Of course one cannot expect English listings everywhere, but I still cannot understand why those who are proficient in English do not provide additional English cache descriptions.

 

The role of English is not based on its role in the US, Canada, the UK etc, but on the fact that English is taught as foreign language around the world and has a comparatively simple grammar and can be understood in pidgin form as well. (This gets much harder with say French, German or Russian.)

 

When I visited Copenhagen in 2003 all caches I visited except a single one were available in English too. Since then this has considerably changed not only in Copenhagen, but also in my country and for no obvious reasons except lazyness. My own form of protest against this development has been that I started to provide English only descriptions for my own caches some years ago. I also decided to stay with my English logs and not change over to German ones in my home country except for cases where I have something important to tell to the cache owner and am not convinced that the English text will be understood well.

 

I've noticed over time that the majority of the cachers who are in favour of English cache descriptions typically are neither native speakers of English nor do they speak only their mother tongue. Most of these cachers come from Europe, are multilingual and are aware of the weaknesses of automatic translation and have higher expectations in the accuracy and quality of the translation than just getting a rough idea what the text might be talking about.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Google Translate before you go off and cache?

 

Requires Internet access. Frequently in Europe I don't have it; all I have are the PQs I brought from home. And one cannot always know ahead of time which caches they will have an opportunity to seek.

 

That said, I disagree with the OP. I think non-English caches are a fun challenge! Sometimes I can't figure out enough to find the cache, but it's a lot of fun to try.

 

On my trip yo Europe last year (visited Germany, Czech Republic, Austria, Switzerland and France) I did a lot of up front planning, cherry picking caches that I might be able to visit (I had about 25-40 caches picked). These caches were either in great locations, were right near I was staying, etc. I made sure there was an English description, or I translated before I left and printed out the listing.

 

Granted, I was not prepared to grab "random" caches, but my goal was not quantity (the wife & kids wouldn't let me!), but to grab a few caches, with at least one in each new country.

 

There was one cache a mile from my uncle's house in Germany at a spot I used to play at when I visited as a child), that I had to contact the cache owner for some help. He was more than willing to help, and actually invited me out "für ein Bier", but I was too busy to accept!

 

A little up front prep work should resolve some of the issues.

Edited by BBWolf+3Pigs
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When I visited Copenhagen in 2003 all caches I visited except a single one were available in English too. Since then this has considerably changed not only in Copenhagen, but also in my country and for no obvious reasons except lazyness.

 

My 2 pfennigs..

 

When geocaching started, it was truly a "geek" game. You had to be a little technologically savvy, and already a person who traveled, hiked, etc. More than likely this class of people also spoke English as a second language, so they were comfortable with adding an English description.

 

As the game spread, and more people started doing it, you are not getting a wide cross section of backgrounds of people who play. Including older people, less tech savvy,etc. Those people may not speak English as a second language, or at least don't feel comfortable enough to write in it.

 

I doubt it has anything to do with laziness.

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Google Translate before you go off and cache?

 

Requires Internet access. Frequently in Europe I don't have it; all I have are the PQs I brought from home. And one cannot always know ahead of time which caches they will have an opportunity to seek.

 

That said, I disagree with the OP. I think non-English caches are a fun challenge! Sometimes I can't figure out enough to find the cache, but it's a lot of fun to try.

 

On my trip yo Europe last year (visited Germany, Czech Republic, Austria, Switzerland and France) I did a lot of up front planning, cherry picking caches that I might be able to visit (I had about 25-40 caches picked). These caches were either in great locations, were right near I was staying, etc. I made sure there was an English description, or I translated before I left and printed out the listing.

 

Granted, I was not prepared to grab "random" caches, but my goal was not quantity (the wife & kids wouldn't let me!), but to grab a few caches, with at least one in each new country.

 

There was one cache a mile from my uncle's house in Germany at a spot I used to play at when I visited as a child), that I had to contact the cache owner for some help. He was more than willing to help, and actually invited me out "für ein Bier", but I was too busy to accept!

 

A little up front prep work should resolve some of the issues.

 

This is exactly what I do. My goal isn't quantity at home and even less so while traveling. Getting at least one in each new country is my primary goal but if I have time for more I'll hand pick a few. When I went to Zurich I saw that there were two events (one was a WWFM) that were taking place during my 22 hour layover there. I posted a note on one of them asking if there would be any English speakers at the event (all of the existing will attend logs were in German). I got several responses including an offer from a very nice couple to meet me and show me around the city prior to the event. I had a great time finding a few traditionals, a puzzle cache, an earth cache and attended both events. I met a lot of local geocachers and it ended up being one of the most enjoyable days of geocaching I'd had in a long time.

 

 

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When I visited Copenhagen in 2003 all caches I visited except a single one were available in English too. Since then this has considerably changed not only in Copenhagen, but also in my country and for no obvious reasons except lazyness.

 

My 2 pfennigs..

 

When geocaching started, it was truly a "geek" game. You had to be a little technologically savvy, and already a person who traveled, hiked, etc. More than likely this class of people also spoke English as a second language, so they were comfortable with adding an English description.

 

As the game spread, and more people started doing it, you are not getting a wide cross section of backgrounds of people who play. Including older people, less tech savvy,etc. Those people may not speak English as a second language, or at least don't feel comfortable enough to write in it.

 

I doubt it has anything to do with laziness.

 

It has to do with laziness as I only talk about people I know and whose background I know. The same people who have used English before (at a very high level), stopped doing so and as a result the majority of people who are fluent in English do not provide an English version any longer.

 

I do have the utmost understanding for those who are not able to come up with a decent English description. I have volunteered to translate quite a number of ECs at the time when an English description was still required and I have offered to provide English descriptions for a number of caches relevant for tourists in my city (by the way these latter offers have been rejected as the cache owners did not want to have lengthy descriptions).

 

I never ever would make it an requirement for a cache to have an English description, but I'd wish that everyone who is capable to provide a decent English version is doing so.

 

It might be that the decreasing value that is put onto cache descriptions, also contributes to the decreasing proportion of English cache descriptions (only taking into account those owners who are capable of providing English versions that are better than automatic translations).

 

Cezanne

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It has to do with laziness

 

I get tired of people saying when others are not playing their way it is because of laziness. Why do people so often assume those who do not agree with them must be lazy?

 

Did you ever think maybe it is because others don't agree with you?

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It has to do with laziness

 

I get tired of people saying when others are not playing their way it is because of laziness. Why do people so often assume those who do not agree with them must be lazy?

 

Did you ever think maybe it is because others don't agree with you?

 

I'm not assuming anything.

 

I was told by many local cachers that they are too lazy to provide an English version when I asked them why they do not provide one. (By the way, I'm not in need of an English version in my home country, but it is absurd to hope for English descriptions say in Slovenia and not to offer English versions in our region, but this is what happens quite frequently by now.)

 

The second most frequently provided reason for not offering English descriptions was that the description gets too long when done in two languages.

 

I can clearly distinguish between opinions and facts. For example, I have a very good friend who is of the opinion that my decision to log in English except in special caches is a silly one. I respect her opinion and she mine.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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I think all cache pages should be *required* to have mandarin on them, as this is the #1 most spoken language in the world.

 

But not when taking into account second, third etc languages as well and even less when taking into account the set of cachers.

Clearly English will be the most universal choice for a language to add to a local language other than English if the idea is to be as helpful as possible

to cachers from around the world.

What counts when the idea is to understand each other is not how many people have a particular language as their mother tongue, but how many are able to understand the basics of a language.

 

I agree that requiring certain languages is not the right way, but if one talks about what would be desirable whereever feasible, then I'd clearly opt for

adding English versions (even though I like other languages better from the point of beauty).

 

Cezanne

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You have got to be friggin kidding me. :rolleyes:

 

I think all cache pages should be *required* to have mandarin on them, as this is the #1 most spoken language in the world.

 

First of all, I do not support the idea of requiring that cache owners provide an English translations on the cache listings.

 

However, although Mandarin may be spoken by more people in the world, English is the defacto preferred language for business world wide. I've been to China twice for business meetings which had a large international presence. In both cases, except for a some introductory and closing comments all of the meetings were conducted in English.

 

Although Mandarin it is commonly listed as the #1 most spoken language that is a bit misleading as it typically refers to the number of native speakers and doesn't taken into account English as a second language. While Mandarin may be the most commonly spoken language that is not the same the the most commonly *understood* language.

 

 

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You have got to be friggin kidding me. :rolleyes:

 

I think all cache pages should be *required* to have mandarin on them, as this is the #1 most spoken language in the world.

 

First of all, I do not support the idea of requiring that cache owners provide an English translations on the cache listings.

 

However, although Mandarin may be spoken by more people in the world, English is the defacto preferred language for business world wide. I've been to China twice for business meetings which had a large international presence. In both cases, except for a some introductory and closing comments all of the meetings were conducted in English.

 

Although Mandarin it is commonly listed as the #1 most spoken language that is a bit misleading as it typically refers to the number of native speakers and doesn't taken into account English as a second language. While Mandarin may be the most commonly spoken language that is not the same the the most commonly *understood* language.

 

Did someone miss the humour?

 

Anyhow, many of our caches, especially the puzzles, are in French and English. Why? We live in the only officially bilingual province in Canada. There is also a high percentage of French speakers (Acadians) here in South Eastern New Brunswick and there is a large number of Quebec tourists who come here for the beaches in summer. Our caches get a lot of visits from tourists.

 

http://coord.info/GC1N26E

 

http://coord.info/GC4FQRJ

 

.

Edited by Ma & Pa
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Considering that the nationalities traveling and geocache most seem to be Germans and Czechs, every cache in Europe should have a description in these two languages :rolleyes:

 

From a more serious point of view, it should be taken into account that multilingual cache descriptions need to be written by someone. Austria has among others a common border with the Czech republic. Only few Austrian cacher can understand Czech and only a handful can write cache texts in Czech. Among the younger people in the Czech republic knowing English well is also much more common than knowing German well. The situation is similar for Austria and Slovakia, Austria and Slovenia etc

I live only about 50 km from the border to Slovenia, but I certainly never will find the time and motivation to learn Slovenian. Hungary is also relatively close.

English costs no extra effort for those who know it anyway.

 

Cezanne

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It's entirely true that English is the default language for international business. Put three people from three countries in a room and your best bet is English. But, here's the thing, geocaching isn't business. I found a couple of caches in Korea that had about a half-sentence English description attached to a paragraph of Hangul text. I figured it out. And it was part of the fun, all told.

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I found a couple of caches in Korea that had about a half-sentence English description attached to a paragraph of Hangul text.

 

Apparently none of them was a multi cache or a mystery cache. Then of course the description is less important.

 

I prefer complex caches and caches where the description and the logs are important for me (e.g. for planning longer hikes and for helping to decide whether a hike is feasible for me). If my intention were just to find and log a few caches in another country, then the language issue would not bother me either.

 

Cezanne

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It's entirely true that English is the default language for international business. Put three people from three countries in a room and your best bet is English. But, here's the thing, geocaching isn't business. I found a couple of caches in Korea that had about a half-sentence English description attached to a paragraph of Hangul text. I figured it out. And it was part of the fun, all told.

 

Yes, I realize that geocaching isn't a business but that's not really the point. The point is when you put three people from three different countries into a room and they need a common language to communicate, they're probably not going to chose the most commonly spoken language, but the most commonly understood language.

 

 

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Olen yhdistettiin kaksi keskusteluja samasta aiheesta.

 

I have a neigbor who is from Finland.

 

She said Keystone's note says "I have married two discus throwers with the same hairdo."

 

LOL, good one. Oh, btw it's neighbor not neigbor. Or maybe that's the way they spell it in Finland or wherever you are from.

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For better or worse, English seems to have mostly become the lingua franca the world over.

 

Certainly I would appreciate an English version of the details on the cache page, but I would also hardly consider that to be expected.

 

My sincere gratitude to those cache owners who take the time to translate their cache descriptions to ANY of the 'major' languages. :)

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I've seen English translations in some Finnish cache descriptions or shorter summary about cache location and advice about finding it. Not every cache has such, though.

 

Funny that Sampo is a thing from Finnish folklore and poem collection Kalevala...

 

I would expect to find cache descriptions in a language that is commonly spoken in that particular country where the cache is located. English translation is courtesy towards those who do not understand that other language ie. tourist cachers and might attract them to pick the cache instead of something else if they visit the area. In my opinion it would be impolite to demand translations but it is very thoughtful from a cache owner if the cache information is available for foreign visitors.

 

Yet I love my mother tongue so much that I would frown at English-only descriptions in my country.

 

"Olen yhdistettiin kaksi keskusteluja samasta aiheesta."

 

I think this is supposed to mean: "I have combined two threads/discussions about same topic."

But it is in bad Finnish: "I am was combined two discussion about same topic."

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As a native English speaker with rudimentary understanding of Spanish and French, I am personally embarrased by anyone who would propose that there be a requirement to translate a cache page into anything other than the native tongue of the person who was kind enough to place a cache in some corner of the world for me to find. There is no requirement for me to find ANY cache. If I am in a country that uses other than my native tongue, I must of necessity make arrangements to communicate with the host polulation. I have in the past made such trips and made suchg arrangements. It seems like the simplest of these arrangements would be to pre plan my caching and obtain translations where I needed them. As far as I know, cache coordinates are in numbrs which are universal. Anything more than that ( such as the cache description, hint, size) is just gravy.

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If I am in a country that uses other than my native tongue, I must of necessity make arrangements to communicate with the host polulation. I have in the past made such trips and made suchg arrangements. It seems like the simplest of these arrangements would be to pre plan my caching and obtain translations where I needed them. As far as I know, cache coordinates are in numbrs which are universal. Anything more than that ( such as the cache description, hint, size) is just gravy.

 

What you write is true (with some limitations) for traditionals.

 

Of course one cannot require English cache descriptions, but I still think that at least in Europe with so many different languages spoken and so short distances between areas with different languages, it still would be a good idea if everyone who is capable to provide a better English cache description that obtained by automatic translation is doing exactly that. There are so many cachers around in Europe who are able to provide reasonable English cache descriptions and so few who actually provide them, a situation which I regard as unfortunate.

 

I'm preplanning almost all of my caching trips and certainly all in a country with a language I'm not fluent in. This still does not change the fact that I can understand only few languages and that automatic translations only lead garbage which is not useful for finding most multi caches and mystery caches.

 

If I go to Slovenia for a short caching trip of a few hours (I need less than one hour to get there), I will not need to communicate much with the minority that does not understand English at all. If I happen to stay in a hotel there, English would be the obvious language of communication as well. The same is true at my work. For example, I'm working with someone from Croatia, but we are communicating in English and neither in German nor in Croatian. He knows some German, but our level of English is so much more advanced compared to what one can learn within a few months when focussing on something different than language learning.

 

My argument is let's use the competence that is already there. It is not necessary to require anything compulsory and not necessary to make anyone learn something new - just use what is available anyway.

 

Cezanne

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I'm just popping in to say "Oma ilmatyynyalus on täynnä ankeriaita."

ja välimuisti on sähköistää ...

 

"Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voller Aale"................... und der Cache ist elektrisierend ...

 

"Mi aerodeslizador es lleno de anguilas" ............... la memoria caché es electrizante ...

 

“我的气垫船鳗鱼” ................. 并且缓存是一个激动人心的...

 

a"Moje vznášadlo je plné úhorov"................... vyrovnávacia pamäť je elektrizujúca ...

 

shucks, it only took a bit of cut 'n paste to help out our fellow linguists...

"My hovercraft is full of eels" ......... the cache is electrifying...

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While on holidays in Finland we had a bad experience in reading the descriptions on internet. Nowadays many people speak English. But the

Finnish descriptions and posted logs are in Finnish! It would make geocaching a lot nicer if everyone would add a small translation in English. A task for the volunteers to give an extra impuls to the new cache placers?

This reads like a setup to me.

<_<

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