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Don't grab it if you can't log it same day!


SLAPSH0T

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If nothing is logged within a week, then go ahead and log.

More often than not, I'll drop a TB the day after I find it. Do you still want me to wait before I log it? Or do you suggest I stop moving the TB promptly just because someone hasn't been able to log the drop?

 

It's also the polite thing to do.

I guess this is the point where I'm in most disagreement with other reponders. I think of myself as being not just polite but even helpful when I take care of positioning a TB correctly for someone that, for whatever reason, hasn't had a chance to log the drop himself. If it doesn't matter, then I can wait, but as soon as waiting will get in the way of normal operations, I do the grab and visit and get on with the game.

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If nothing is logged within a week, then go ahead and log.

More often than not, I'll drop a TB the day after I find it. Do you still want me to wait before I log it? Or do you suggest I stop moving the TB promptly just because someone hasn't been able to log the drop?

 

 

Dprovan makes a good point. Trackable logs could potentially get mighty confused in a situation where the cacher who is on the road won't be back for a week, the current holder is moving it on right away, and the trackable could be in yet another cacher's hands by the time the vacationing cacher returns. (And the more hands it passes through in the meantime, the higher the risk that someone will log the trackable incorrectly!)

 

So in this case, the polite thing to do would be to make the grab, visit the trackable to the cache it was found in so the mileage is correct, and log it into the drop cache AND be sure to explain your actions in the trackable log ("Hey, sorry for the grab but I had the opportunity to take this one to Tahiti and didn't want the mileage to get mixed up!"). Then a similar email to the cacher you grabbed it from. I'm sure they will understand. :)

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I would never grab a trackable directly from another cacher unless multiple attempts have been made to contact them and they aren't responding (and yes, I've had to do that more than once). In bflentje's case, I'm sure he would've made the effort to drop the trackable in the cache if he had ever been contacted. In his case, however, slapsh0t just yanked it from him, causing consternation and confusion for everyone.

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So in this case, the polite thing to do would be to make the grab, visit the trackable to the cache it was found in so the mileage is correct, and log it into the drop cache AND be sure to explain your actions in the trackable log ("Hey, sorry for the grab but I had the opportunity to take this one to Tahiti and didn't want the mileage to get mixed up!"). Then a similar email to the cacher you grabbed it from. I'm sure they will understand. :)

 

I disagree only about "visit the trackable to the cache" - as I pointed out in (the other half of the merged thread that is now a kind of too long and maybe overseen) post #40 here - I'd still like some opinion about than one :rolleyes:

In my eyes it is important that there is a "retrieved from" log in your name referring to the cache where you found it, so a 'dropped it' log is possible. A 'took it' doesn't provide that. But maybe my way is too complicated because there is an easier way to get the logs right?

 

Another Suggestion: If you know the cacher you grabbed it from, you can write an email as described. AND it would be nice to provide the tracking code in it - not everyone keeps this number after the retrieve.

If you find a trackable in a cache (like in this case!) and don't know who didn't log properly, watch the trackable and the caches (the one last logged and the one where you found it), maybe you'll learn who has to get your helping mail.

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Really, in all actuality, you probably have to take it on a case by case basis, and be willing to do the research on the trackable to see who what where when and how it was handled last. And communicate with the last cacher if you can find out who it was. If you can wait to let someone log it, then wait. If you can't, well then you can't. It's not a perfect system, and we have to at least try to work together. We have to be willing to put in the extra effort to keep things straight.

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So in this case, the polite thing to do would be to make the grab, visit the trackable to the cache it was found in so the mileage is correct, and log it into the drop cache AND be sure to explain your actions in the trackable log ("Hey, sorry for the grab but I had the opportunity to take this one to Tahiti and didn't want the mileage to get mixed up!"). Then a similar email to the cacher you grabbed it from. I'm sure they will understand. :)

Yeah, sounds good. In practice, I actually don't bother to send private e-mail since there's nothing I want to say privately to the previous holder that I'm not going to put in the public logs when explaining my actions.

 

The first few times this came up, I'd apologize, but as time goes on I'm more likely consider this normal procedure that I don't feel a need to apologize for. But, of course, I don't call anyone an incompetent newbie...

 

I would never grab a trackable directly from another cacher unless multiple attempts have been made to contact them and they aren't responding (and yes, I've had to do that more than once).

Although I have sent a query to a previous holder in situations where I didn't need to log the grab right away, when you think about it, that's actually kinda insulting, since such an e-mail implies that the previous holder has incompetently forgotten to drop the TB. One e-mail, OK, we all forget, "oh, thanks for reminding me." The second e-mail starts to seem like a slap in the face: "Why can't you get this simple TB drop logged right even now that I've reminded you N times?" That's one of the reason I stopped worrying about it so much and treat the episode more as being helpful for someone that forgot or has some other reasonable hang-up rather than trying to force them to log the drop.

 

In my eyes it is important that there is a "retrieved from" log in your name referring to the cache where you found it, so a 'dropped it' log is possible. A 'took it' doesn't provide that. But maybe my way is too complicated because there is an easier way to get the logs right?

I've never considered doing a fake drop just so I could do the actual retrieve. Since I'm explaining in my grab log why I made the grab, and I'm explaining in the visit log why I'm making the visit, I don't see any advantage to adding a completely bogus drop log -- I definitely didn't drop it -- just so I can have a 100% accurate retrieve log. Does anyone else think the retrieve log is essential?

 

Another Suggestion: If you know the cacher you grabbed it from, you can write an email as described. AND it would be nice to provide the tracking code in it - not everyone keeps this number after the retrieve.

Eh. Actually, the better I know the person, the more likely I'm going to relish in giving them a bad time, and less interested I am in them having the code if they forgot to keep a copy of it. While I'd provide the code if asked, in general I don't consider it my job to make sure someone that should have the code actually does have the code.

 

Really, in all actuality, you probably have to take it on a case by case basis, and be willing to do the research on the trackable to see who what where when and how it was handled last. And communicate with the last cacher if you can find out who it was. If you can wait to let someone log it, then wait. If you can't, well then you can't. It's not a perfect system, and we have to at least try to work together. We have to be willing to put in the extra effort to keep things straight.

Yeah, I agree that this isn't a place for hard and fast rules. In particular, I'd say my main point is that the "rule" about grabbing a TB being inherently rude is the first rule people should forget about. And the more I think about that, the less important it seems to me to wait.

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Another Suggestion: If you know the cacher you grabbed it from, you can write an email as described. AND it would be nice to provide the tracking code in it - not everyone keeps this number after the retrieve.

Eh. Actually, the better I know the person, the more likely I'm going to relish in giving them a bad time, and less interested I am in them having the code if they forgot to keep a copy of it. While I'd provide the code if asked, in general I don't consider it my job to make sure someone that should have the code actually does have the code.

 

My point is: I have the trackable in hand, then I log the retrieve. Another day I drop it into a cache - then I don't need a copy of the code. But: if someone takes it the same day of my drop and grabs it out of my inventory before I'm home to log --> in that case I am the one who doesn't have the code anymore to grab it back and drop it properly... I don't copy codes to paper - why should I? Oh, yes: Because I have to face the fact that it could get grabbed before I could log the drop - even if I try to be as fast as possible.

In fact, this happened to me at an event. I handed it over to someone to take it - he grabbed it out of my inventory right there... (I don't drop trackables at events - if I don't find people that want to move it along, I'd rather take them with me again, logging a visit instead of a drop).

 

Grabbing is silver, patience is gold... (but too much patience is off the track)

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My point is: I have the trackable in hand, then I log the retrieve. Another day I drop it into a cache - then I don't need a copy of the code. But: if someone takes it the same day of my drop and grabs it out of my inventory before I'm home to log --> in that case I am the one who doesn't have the code anymore to grab it back and drop it properly...

In that case, you are no longer responsible, so you are free to leave it to the next person to log it properly.

 

I don't copy codes to paper - why should I?

This is one reason to write down the code rather than depending on having the TB in your hand when you need it. To be honest, I'm kinda startled that you're worried about this case enough to advise sending the code, but not enough to write down the code so you don't have to depend on the next guy to send it to you.

 

The more critical reason to write down the code is so you can correct mistakes you might make such as logging the drop at the wrong cache. I always write down the code as soon as I pick up the TB so I have it no matter what might happen.

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I'm kinda startled that you're worried about this case enough to advise sending the code, but not enough to write down the code so you don't have to depend on the next guy to send it to you.

You may have a point there :rolleyes: - but still I usually don't foresee my dependancy. If I did, I would write it down. That's me.

 

Maybe this one is more convincing: Sending the code (in a case where the reciever has to correct something) might increase the chances that the person will take the time to do it.

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Yeah, I agree that this isn't a place for hard and fast rules. In particular, I'd say my main point is that the "rule" about grabbing a TB being inherently rude is the first rule people should forget about. And the more I think about that, the less important it seems to me to wait.

 

Wait or not, grab or not, but coming to the forums (not you) and publicly complaining and insulting is what's important to recognize here.

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Wait or not, grab or not, but coming to the forums (not you) and publicly complaining and insulting is what's important to recognize here.

Good point. That is a hard and fast rule, for sure. I'd go so far as to say complaining or insulting is a bad idea in public or private.

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Yeah, I agree that this isn't a place for hard and fast rules. In particular, I'd say my main point is that the "rule" about grabbing a TB being inherently rude is the first rule people should forget about. And the more I think about that, the less important it seems to me to wait.

 

One thing to think about in your hurry, the true purpose of the Travel Bug is the amusement/happiness of the owner, and secondly of those who move it. Suppose the previous mover had taken it places to help with it's mission, and taken lots of photos, etc. Your quick grab may prevent them from being able to post those in their log, thus diminishing the enjoyment for the OWNER, the guy or gal who plunked down the money and took the time to create the bug. So maybe a little patience is warranted.

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One thing to think about in your hurry, the true purpose of the Travel Bug is the amusement/happiness of the owner, and secondly of those who move it. Suppose the previous mover had taken it places to help with it's mission, and taken lots of photos, etc. Your quick grab may prevent them from being able to post those in their log, thus diminishing the enjoyment for the OWNER, the guy or gal who plunked down the money and took the time to create the bug. So maybe a little patience is warranted.

While certainly worthy of consideration, I've never ever seen this happen when I've waited for a drop to be logged. If you are planning on taking a TB on such a wonderful adventure, please, please say something in the TB's log before you leave. If you execute such a trip and then leave the TB in a popular cache when you won't be able to log it for two weeks, you just can't expect the world to stop for you. Unless you warn me about an impending delay, I have to assume that me promptly logging the TB's correct location and moving it along to its next stop will result in the maximum pleasure for the owner.

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<snip> Unless you warn me about an impending delay, I have to assume that me promptly logging the TB's correct location and moving it along to its next stop will result in the maximum pleasure for the owner.

No, you don't have to assume that. You could exhibit a little patience and follow the generally accepted convention of waiting a few days. I agree if it is going to be a week or more I can't expect someone to wait, but it really won't kill anyone to give the previous logger a couple of days. Anything less is just someone justifying what they want to do anyway.

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If you are planning on taking a TB on such a wonderful adventure, please, please say something in the TB's log before you leave.

With ALL due respect, this just isn't possible many times.

Yes, of course. And it also isn't always possible to wait. OK?

 

<snip> Unless you warn me about an impending delay, I have to assume that me promptly logging the TB's correct location and moving it along to its next stop will result in the maximum pleasure for the owner.

No, you don't have to assume that. You could exhibit a little patience and follow the generally accepted convention of waiting a few days. I agree if it is going to be a week or more I can't expect someone to wait, but it really won't kill anyone to give the previous logger a couple of days. Anything less is just someone justifying what they want to do anyway.

Yeah, sure, I can drag my feet with the best of them. But while holding the TB longer than I would otherwise won't kill me, I don't think me going ahead and grabbing and visiting the TB before you log your delayed drop would kill you, either. It would be nice if I could wait just as it would be nice if you could log your drops promptly. What we're considering is what happens when, for whatever reason, neither of us are in a position to do either of those things. I say, "Big deal, the TB moves on." What I'm hearing is a suggestion that the world should stop and wait for someone to get back from vacation.

 

I'm actually quite happy to let you log your delayed drops. I just want you to recognize that those delayed drops are an imposition that I'm graciously allowing for, not a god-given right that makes me a jerk when I need to deal with the TB at a point when I have no idea whether you're ever going to log the drop.

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I can think of few examples not to be considerate to you r fellow cachers, and wait a week. "Hmm... TB wants to go to Seattle, and I'm hopping on the plane in the morning!" would work for me. Anything lese is rude entitlement. "I am entitled. Consideration means nothing to me."

Yeah. Had a lady grab a trackable via cell phone, sitting across the table from us a an event. "Don't retrieve it until we get home on the puter to log it in an hour." Nope. She grabbed it and logged "Not properly logged into the event." Then never bothered to pick it up again when we logged it into the event. So, I guess, some people are just stupid. Which explains why most of her caches were muggled within a few weeks.

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This whole debate is tiring. Bottom line, contrary to the OP, the trackables were logged as soon as humanly feasible. I think that's all we can expect of anyone.. except for OP. He's obligated to move in real time. :blink:

Do you at least write some appropriate info in the container's cache log? "Dropped brown dog TB and blue star Geocoin", whatever. With a hint about what your online log plan is.

 

One of my caches has a missing TB, I checked the log book, and according to that, no TB was placed nor taken. <_<

Edited by kunarion
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This whole debate is tiring. Bottom line, contrary to the OP, the trackables were logged as soon as humanly feasible. I think that's all we can expect of anyone.. except for OP. He's obligated to move in real time. :blink:

Yes, I can agree with that. I argue that there's another side to this coin, but I agree it's not the side the OP displayed in his rude grab log. I'm hoping you would also agree that the front side of this coin isn't the side displayed by the comparably rude response to the OP's grab log.

 

Do you at least write some appropriate info in the container's cache log? "Dropped brown dog TB and blue star Geocoin", whatever. With a hint about what your online log plan is.

Writing something in the physical log is a good suggestion, particularly for those people unable to post a note in advance on the TB's page. Of course, that will not always be noticed -- well, honestly, I'd say it will be infrequently noticed -- but this gives the grabber an opportunity to get the word. And whether it's noticed or not, at least the dropper has in his head that his delayed log might cause a problem that he should try to mitigate.

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No but it is too short to get involved in this boring thread.

(My mistake getting involved).

How do I unsubscribe?

 

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Coincidentally, this JUST happened to me today. I'm finally getting to logging my caches from my vacation last week to Seattle, during which I picked up 2 TBs and dropped 1 off. Someone found the one I dropped off, and 'grabbed' it from the cache they didn't visit (the one I got it from) so they could drop it in the cache in which they found it (which is where I put it), then pick it up from there and drop it into the cache in which they dropped it.

 

I'm torn as to whether to push for an accurate history (have them delete the logs so I can do my own tracking logs) or just forget the whole thing and log notes for the actions I did (which are effectively now done 'by' that user). The perfectionist in me wants them do delete their logs so I can accurately log mine, but the Canadian in me wants to just forget the whole thing and log notes.

 

*sigh*

 

I could say why, don't people just give it time so the correct TB logs can be posted (the waiting period as suggested above).

 

I could say why don't people just at least put a quick placeholder there to ensure this sort of mix-up doesn't happen (hindsight, something I could have done).

 

Who's fault is it for this mess? Both or neither? What's the best solution? *headdesk*

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