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Regional Ranking System?


fiefer

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Id like to have a constructive discussion and hear what you guys think, as geocaching is always open to new ideas and adventure, I thought; whats a way to keep people geocaching and build some friendly competition between geocachers. So why not build regional rankings, an example would be per city or region it would show the geocacher with the most smileys on a top ten or something list, then on different scales, provincial and national and global (I live in canada) which would reward senior members who have been geocaching for a long time, they would see where they rank. Or as a second idea, to make everybody equal in this system and eliminate the smiley system, what if cache owners printed a code, or printed a special bar code or those smart phone squares you can take a picture of, and every time you do a geocache you can manually put this specific to that cache code on the website, or get your smartphone to instantly upload it. This way everybody starts from scratch and everybody has a chance to be high in their local rankings, also different caches give you more points, multi caches give higher points while micros give less, and travel bug pickups will give some points too, so you can never max out on points. I think incorporating a sense of competition between geocachers might engage people more and would provide a fun idea.

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Id like to have a constructive discussion and hear what you guys think, as geocaching is always open to new ideas and adventure, I thought; whats a way to keep people geocaching and build some friendly competition between geocachers. So why not build regional rankings, an example would be per city or region it would show the geocacher with the most smileys on a top ten or something list, then on different scales, provincial and national and global (I live in canada) which would reward senior members who have been geocaching for a long time, they would see where they rank. Or as a second idea, to make everybody equal in this system and eliminate the smiley system, what if cache owners printed a code, or printed a special bar code or those smart phone squares you can take a picture of, and every time you do a geocache you can manually put this specific to that cache code on the website, or get your smartphone to instantly upload it. This way everybody starts from scratch and everybody has a chance to be high in their local rankings, also different caches give you more points, multi caches give higher points while micros give less, and travel bug pickups will give some points too, so you can never max out on points. I think incorporating a sense of competition between geocachers might engage people more and would provide a fun idea.

Regarding rankings, it sounds like you're perfectly describing this site. Click on "Location Index" to drill down to a specific region. I'm currently 158th in BC.

As for the QR codes, there's another game based on this called Munzee that uses points in the way you've described. I won't discuss that game any further, because it's considered a competing website and I don't want to get your topic locked or myself banned.

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I've always considered caching a hobby.

Not interested in turning it into a sport, thanks.

 

As do I, im not saying to turn geocaching mainstream, just to let it appeal to others and not just yourself. I know many people who geocached for many years then lost interest, for me theres nothing better than relaxing and enjoying the scenery, im merely throwing ideas to appeal to all audiences and keep interest in all members

Edited by fiefer
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Id like to have a constructive discussion and hear what you guys think, as geocaching is always open to new ideas and adventure, I thought; whats a way to keep people geocaching and build some friendly competition between geocachers. So why not build regional rankings, an example would be per city or region it would show the geocacher with the most smileys on a top ten or something list, then on different scales, provincial and national and global (I live in canada) which would reward senior members who have been geocaching for a long time, they would see where they rank. Or as a second idea, to make everybody equal in this system and eliminate the smiley system, what if cache owners printed a code, or printed a special bar code or those smart phone squares you can take a picture of, and every time you do a geocache you can manually put this specific to that cache code on the website, or get your smartphone to instantly upload it. This way everybody starts from scratch and everybody has a chance to be high in their local rankings, also different caches give you more points, multi caches give higher points while micros give less, and travel bug pickups will give some points too, so you can never max out on points. I think incorporating a sense of competition between geocachers might engage people more and would provide a fun idea.

Regarding rankings, it sounds like you're perfectly describing this site. Click on "Location Index" to drill down to a specific region. I'm currently 158th in BC.

As for the QR codes, there's another game based on this called Munzee that uses points in the way you've described. I won't discuss that game any further, because it's considered a competing website and I don't want to get your topic locked or myself banned.

Thank you for the informative post, those sound kind of what im talking about, but more easier to access and made by Groundspeak or the makers of the website, im just asking what you guys would think of the idea of logging on to the site and seeing where you rank in your community, getting to know other local cachers, is it too much or something that you would look forward too?

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... also different caches give you more points, multi caches give higher points while micros give less,...

 

 

if the point system were set up so that micros gave negative points, I might support this idea.

I know what you mean, in the past few days ive spent a few hours underneath ivy plants and in parks scratching my head for hours while trying not to look like I should be in the police watch list, all while trying to find something smaller than my hand.

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You wan to see who's better? Go play hockey or baseball. Geocaching should not be competitive. Intoducing a ranking system here would make it competitive, even if that's not the intention.

Im just looking at how we can improve and appeal to audiences that are losing interest, and it seems you are completely missing the point here as everybody isnt the same as you, it wouldnt neccisarrily to be whos better, I mean it would mean something different to everyone. It would also be a way to meet local geocachers. Im just trying to be open minded, as I can see alot of people are afraid of change and are getting on the defensive, my idea would by some small optional tab on the website you wouldnt even have to bother with if you didnt want too, but some people may want it, I mean im just trying to get some constructive positives and negatives from people here.

Edited by fiefer
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Read the second line of my signature. Anything that uses a smartphone to automatically or verify a cache find would change the game to something that no longer looks like geocaching.

 

There is already a smartphone game where people compete over how many codes they can scan.

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Read the second line of my signature. Anything that uses a smartphone to automatically or verify a cache find would change the game to something that no longer looks like geocaching.

 

There is already a smartphone game where people compete over how many codes they can scan.

Thank you for giving me a constructive reply, I can see what you mean, yet I think your highly over exaggerating, what im saying wouldnt be required for a geocache, and wouldnt change anything really, it would be a small optional addition. I love geocaching, and enjoy and appreciate every one that somebody makes, yet theres always room for improvement and change. Just trying to be open minded.

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You wan to see who's better? Go play hockey or baseball. Geocaching should not be competitive. Intoducing a ranking system here would make it competitive, even if that's not the intention.

 

So it's not just a case of "I'm not interested in this idea and won't pay attention to it if it were to be implemented".

 

Agreeing with T.D.M., I'd say that a move in this direction would change the fundamental nature of the website. Maybe not for you and me, but anybody who starts AFTER that point would be presented from 'day one' with a "SEE YOUR RANKING" banner and there you go, GC's a competitive endeavor.

 

Another problem is in figuring out what the ranking will be based on. Stricly 'FIND COUNT?' Percentage of 'FINDs' to 'DNFs'? 'FINDS' compared somehow to time caching? I could easily come up with a dozen more 'meaningful' stats on which to compare people, but unless YOUR meaningful stat is the same as MY meaningful stat, the ranking is, well, meaningless. Would you have GS rank us by ALL the stats and let you pick the one you want? That's a LOT of server cycles to spend every time someone displays a profile page for virtually no gain.

 

How would you define your 'regions'? I live near the southern border of Ulster County, New York, US. My caching buddies are here in Ulster, down in Orange County and over in Dutchess County. The 'region' I would be interested in covers more than just the County, otherwise the ranking is meaningless to me. Someone I know lives 20 miles north, smack dab in the middle of Ulster. HE considers HIS region to be ONLY Ulster County because he doesn't know anybody and rarely caches in other areas.

 

The point is that along with the definition of the specific ranking criteria, the definition of the ranked REGION would ALSO be different for each person. If GS were to come up with a generic way to do it, my guess is it wouldn't be meaningful to the vast majority of cachers.

 

I'll bet, however, that you could do this for your own self-defined map region through GSAK or one of the other tools that can access GS' data. (I have no idea what I'm talking about here!) So, learn the tools, write the app, and share it with the rest of us.

 

Good luck!

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You wan to see who's better? Go play hockey or baseball. Geocaching should not be competitive. Intoducing a ranking system here would make it competitive, even if that's not the intention.

 

So it's not just a case of "I'm not interested in this idea and won't pay attention to it if it were to be implemented".

 

Agreeing with T.D.M., I'd say that a move in this direction would change the fundamental nature of the website. Maybe not for you and me, but anybody who starts AFTER that point would be presented from 'day one' with a "SEE YOUR RANKING" banner and there you go, GC's a competitive endeavor.

 

Another problem is in figuring out what the ranking will be based on. Stricly 'FIND COUNT?' Percentage of 'FINDs' to 'DNFs'? 'FINDS' compared somehow to time caching? I could easily come up with a dozen more 'meaningful' stats on which to compare people, but unless YOUR meaningful stat is the same as MY meaningful stat, the ranking is, well, meaningless. Would you have GS rank us by ALL the stats and let you pick the one you want? That's a LOT of server cycles to spend every time someone displays a profile page for virtually no gain.

 

How would you define your 'regions'? I live near the southern border of Ulster County, New York, US. My caching buddies are here in Ulster, down in Orange County and over in Dutchess County. The 'region' I would be interested in covers more than just the County, otherwise the ranking is meaningless to me. Someone I know lives 20 miles north, smack dab in the middle of Ulster. HE considers HIS region to be ONLY Ulster County because he doesn't know anybody and rarely caches in other areas.

 

The point is that along with the definition of the specific ranking criteria, the definition of the ranked REGION would ALSO be different for each person. If GS were to come up with a generic way to do it, my guess is it wouldn't be meaningful to the vast majority of cachers.

 

I'll bet, however, that you could do this for your own self-defined map region through GSAK or one of the other tools that can access GS' data. (I have no idea what I'm talking about here!) So, learn the tools, write the app, and share it with the rest of us.

 

Good luck!

I really appreciate the time you took to make that reply, it was really constructive compared to the ones which made them seem afraid of change. My idea was based on the criteria of point based geocaching I guess, either that or smiley based, point based would be through multi cache being larger amount while micro being smaller amount and etc, time and dnf wouldnt matter. While im not trying to throw geocaching into a 360 and make everyone riot, there are many varieties of people from young to old, if some people like a competeitive type of play, why not give it to them, it wouldnt have to make the other have to play like that, some people like the journey while others like the destination, and thats why some people lose interest. Im the same type of cacher you guys are, but im just trying to see from eveybody's perspective.

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It would also be a way to meet local geocachers.

I'm not sure how this would help you meet local geocachers. That's what events are for.

 

How would you define your 'regions'? I live near the southern border of Ulster County, New York, US. My caching buddies are here in Ulster, down in Orange County and over in Dutchess County. The 'region' I would be interested in covers more than just the County, otherwise the ranking is meaningless to me. Someone I know lives 20 miles north, smack dab in the middle of Ulster. HE considers HIS region to be ONLY Ulster County because he doesn't know anybody and rarely caches in other areas.

That's my problem, too. I live just south of the state line, in Iowa. I know a couple cachers from Iowa, but I also cache a lot in Minnesota, and know several cachers up there. Could I get them all in the same "region"? Also, I believe I'm the number 1 cacher in my county, because I only know of 1 other, and they just started a year or so ago.

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Read the second line of my signature. Anything that uses a smartphone to automatically or verify a cache find would change the game to something that no longer looks like geocaching.

 

There is already a smartphone game where people compete over how many codes they can scan.

Thank you for giving me a constructive reply, I can see what you mean, yet I think your highly over exaggerating, what im saying wouldnt be required for a geocache, and wouldnt change anything really, it would be a small optional addition. I love geocaching, and enjoy and appreciate every one that somebody makes, yet theres always room for improvement and change. Just trying to be open minded.

 

I think that most that have responded negatively have seen lots of suggestions for "improvements" and have an open mind. I agree with others that, in many ways, geocaching has already become too competitive, and while that might generate interest for those that like to play competitive sports/games, the impact of such a suggestion should be weighed against the effect that more competition would have on those that appreciate the non-competitive aspect of the game. There are some that feel that the trend that geocaching has taken in the last few years as a numbers game had degraded the game and more competition would only make it worse.

 

 

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You wan to see who's better? Go play hockey or baseball. Geocaching should not be competitive. Intoducing a ranking system here would make it competitive, even if that's not the intention.

Im just looking at how we can improve and appeal to audiences that are losing interest, and it seems you are completely missing the point here as everybody isnt the same as you, it wouldnt neccisarrily to be whos better, I mean it would mean something different to everyone. It would also be a way to meet local geocachers. Im just trying to be open minded, as I can see alot of people are afraid of change and are getting on the defensive, my idea would by some small optional tab on the website you wouldnt even have to bother with if you didnt want too, but some people may want it, I mean im just trying to get some constructive positives and negatives from people here.

My opinion is that if you and similar minded people want to compete, go ahead and do so. IF you convince the Groundspeak people to support that fine and good. But please, make participation optional. There should be only an opt in option. Non participation would be the default setting. That avoids anyone who wouldn't want to play. The option should also be set up so that non player stats don't get mixed up in your game. That should not be a big problem for you since all the non players would not affect your results except maybe to increase your rating level, since we are not competing with you for a spot. Might also be the time to do the same for find count displays as well... leave the public display (or not) up to the public.

After that point, the game can go on unnoticed by the ones who do not play, just like the FTF game.

 

Have fun trying it though. I'd go through the stats programs rather than GC/GS as was suggested myself.

If I was at all interested.

 

Doug 7rxc

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Read the second line of my signature. Anything that uses a smartphone to automatically or verify a cache find would change the game to something that no longer looks like geocaching.

 

There is already a smartphone game where people compete over how many codes they can scan.

Thank you for giving me a constructive reply, I can see what you mean, yet I think your highly over exaggerating, what im saying wouldnt be required for a geocache, and wouldnt change anything really, it would be a small optional addition. I love geocaching, and enjoy and appreciate every one that somebody makes, yet theres always room for improvement and change. Just trying to be open minded.

 

I think that most that have responded negatively have seen lots of suggestions for "improvements" and have an open mind. I agree with others that, in many ways, geocaching has already become too competitive, and while that might generate interest for those that like to play competitive sports/games, the impact of such a suggestion should be weighed against the effect that more competition would have on those that appreciate the non-competitive aspect of the game. There are some that feel that the trend that geocaching has taken in the last few years as a numbers game had degraded the game and more competition would only make it worse.

I can see what your saying, geocaching has a lot of variety of people and all arent similar minded, I wouldnt necisarrily call the previous posts open minded because they are only seeing one side of the fence,getting on the defensive and being closed, while im trying to see everybodys point of view. I agree with alot of your post, just as geocaching starting to become more mainstream has degraded it as well

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You wan to see who's better? Go play hockey or baseball. Geocaching should not be competitive. Intoducing a ranking system here would make it competitive, even if that's not the intention.

Im just looking at how we can improve and appeal to audiences that are losing interest, and it seems you are completely missing the point here as everybody isnt the same as you, it wouldnt neccisarrily to be whos better, I mean it would mean something different to everyone. It would also be a way to meet local geocachers. Im just trying to be open minded, as I can see alot of people are afraid of change and are getting on the defensive, my idea would by some small optional tab on the website you wouldnt even have to bother with if you didnt want too, but some people may want it, I mean im just trying to get some constructive positives and negatives from people here.

My opinion is that if you and similar minded people want to compete, go ahead and do so. IF you convince the Groundspeak people to support that fine and good. But please, make participation optional. There should be only an opt in option. Non participation would be the default setting. That avoids anyone who wouldn't want to play. The option should also be set up so that non player stats don't get mixed up in your game. That should not be a big problem for you since all the non players would not affect your results except maybe to increase your rating level, since we are not competing with you for a spot. Might also be the time to do the same for find count displays as well... leave the public display (or not) up to the public.

After that point, the game can go on unnoticed by the ones who do not play, just like the FTF game.

 

Have fun trying it though. I'd go through the stats programs rather than GC/GS as was suggested myself.

If I was at all interested.

 

Doug 7rxc

Thank you, I see what you mean too. I made this post not because I support the idea, but rather because I wanted to see peoples opinions on the matter, when I threw the idea on here it was on the basis that it would definitely be optional and just a small side tab that people wouldnt even have to notice, because there are many types of people some might start to lost interest and see a different side of the game and enjoy it again.

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You wan to see who's better? Go play hockey or baseball. Geocaching should not be competitive. Intoducing a ranking system here would make it competitive, even if that's not the intention.

 

So it's not just a case of "I'm not interested in this idea and won't pay attention to it if it were to be implemented".

 

Agreeing with T.D.M., I'd say that a move in this direction would change the fundamental nature of the website. Maybe not for you and me, but anybody who starts AFTER that point would be presented from 'day one' with a "SEE YOUR RANKING" banner and there you go, GC's a competitive endeavor.

 

Another problem is in figuring out what the ranking will be based on. Stricly 'FIND COUNT?' Percentage of 'FINDs' to 'DNFs'? 'FINDS' compared somehow to time caching? I could easily come up with a dozen more 'meaningful' stats on which to compare people, but unless YOUR meaningful stat is the same as MY meaningful stat, the ranking is, well, meaningless. Would you have GS rank us by ALL the stats and let you pick the one you want? That's a LOT of server cycles to spend every time someone displays a profile page for virtually no gain.

 

How would you define your 'regions'? I live near the southern border of Ulster County, New York, US. My caching buddies are here in Ulster, down in Orange County and over in Dutchess County. The 'region' I would be interested in covers more than just the County, otherwise the ranking is meaningless to me. Someone I know lives 20 miles north, smack dab in the middle of Ulster. HE considers HIS region to be ONLY Ulster County because he doesn't know anybody and rarely caches in other areas.

 

The point is that along with the definition of the specific ranking criteria, the definition of the ranked REGION would ALSO be different for each person. If GS were to come up with a generic way to do it, my guess is it wouldn't be meaningful to the vast majority of cachers.

 

I'll bet, however, that you could do this for your own self-defined map region through GSAK or one of the other tools that can access GS' data. (I have no idea what I'm talking about here!) So, learn the tools, write the app, and share it with the rest of us.

 

Good luck!

I really appreciate the time you took to make that reply, it was really constructive compared to the ones which made them seem afraid of change. My idea was based on the criteria of point based geocaching I guess, either that or smiley based, point based would be through multi cache being larger amount while micro being smaller amount and etc, time and dnf wouldnt matter. While im not trying to throw geocaching into a 360 and make everyone riot, there are many varieties of people from young to old, if some people like a competeitive type of play, why not give it to them, it wouldnt have to make the other have to play like that, some people like the journey while others like the destination, and thats why some people lose interest. Im the same type of cacher you guys are, but im just trying to see from eveybody's perspective.

 

We've had almost this exact discussion not to long ago. It's not that people are afraid of change. It more that we have evaluated exactly what we think this change will bring to the game and to be honest, most of us are afraid that it would probably not be good. I, and I'm sure most of the others that you think are defensive, simply have a "if it's not broke, don't fix it" type attitude.

 

I am very curious about something however, and I don't think that I have ever brought this up in a forum discussion. Either you have found a lot of caches and not bothered to log them online, or you really haven't geocached that much. I'm really curious as to why you would want to turn geocaching into a competition when you don't seem like one that would participate to the point where you would compete. Have you played the game enough to decide that it needs to be changed? That is an honest question, not a slam at your find count.

 

To address another point. Many people take up hobbies and then lose interest after awhile. That is just the nature of people. Some leave, others join. Trying to change the basic idea of geocaching in order to appeal to everyone will never work and it will just fragment the game to the point that it's not interesting to anyone.

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You wan to see who's better? Go play hockey or baseball. Geocaching should not be competitive. Intoducing a ranking system here would make it competitive, even if that's not the intention.

 

So it's not just a case of "I'm not interested in this idea and won't pay attention to it if it were to be implemented".

 

Agreeing with T.D.M., I'd say that a move in this direction would change the fundamental nature of the website. Maybe not for you and me, but anybody who starts AFTER that point would be presented from 'day one' with a "SEE YOUR RANKING" banner and there you go, GC's a competitive endeavor.

 

Another problem is in figuring out what the ranking will be based on. Stricly 'FIND COUNT?' Percentage of 'FINDs' to 'DNFs'? 'FINDS' compared somehow to time caching? I could easily come up with a dozen more 'meaningful' stats on which to compare people, but unless YOUR meaningful stat is the same as MY meaningful stat, the ranking is, well, meaningless. Would you have GS rank us by ALL the stats and let you pick the one you want? That's a LOT of server cycles to spend every time someone displays a profile page for virtually no gain.

 

How would you define your 'regions'? I live near the southern border of Ulster County, New York, US. My caching buddies are here in Ulster, down in Orange County and over in Dutchess County. The 'region' I would be interested in covers more than just the County, otherwise the ranking is meaningless to me. Someone I know lives 20 miles north, smack dab in the middle of Ulster. HE considers HIS region to be ONLY Ulster County because he doesn't know anybody and rarely caches in other areas.

 

The point is that along with the definition of the specific ranking criteria, the definition of the ranked REGION would ALSO be different for each person. If GS were to come up with a generic way to do it, my guess is it wouldn't be meaningful to the vast majority of cachers.

 

I'll bet, however, that you could do this for your own self-defined map region through GSAK or one of the other tools that can access GS' data. (I have no idea what I'm talking about here!) So, learn the tools, write the app, and share it with the rest of us.

 

Good luck!

I really appreciate the time you took to make that reply, it was really constructive compared to the ones which made them seem afraid of change. My idea was based on the criteria of point based geocaching I guess, either that or smiley based, point based would be through multi cache being larger amount while micro being smaller amount and etc, time and dnf wouldnt matter. While im not trying to throw geocaching into a 360 and make everyone riot, there are many varieties of people from young to old, if some people like a competeitive type of play, why not give it to them, it wouldnt have to make the other have to play like that, some people like the journey while others like the destination, and thats why some people lose interest. Im the same type of cacher you guys are, but im just trying to see from eveybody's perspective.

 

We've had almost this exact discussion not to long ago. It's not that people are afraid of change. It more that we have evaluated exactly what we think this change will bring to the game and to be honest, most of us are afraid that it would probably not be good. I, and I'm sure most of the others that you think are defensive, simply have a "if it's not broke, don't fix it" type attitude.

 

I am very curious about something however, and I don't think that I have ever brought this up in a forum discussion. Either you have found a lot of caches and not bothered to log them online, or you really haven't geocached that much. I'm really curious as to why you would want to turn geocaching into a competition when you don't seem like one that would participate to the point where you would compete. Have you played the game enough to decide that it needs to be changed? That is an honest question, not a slam at your find count.

 

To address another point. Many people take up hobbies and then lose interest after awhile. That is just the nature of people. Some leave, others join. Trying to change the basic idea of geocaching in order to appeal to everyone will never work and it will just fragment the game to the point that it's not interesting to anyone.

While I appreciate your reply and you raise some very valid points, your curiosity is completely irrelevant to the topic. I understand your first point completely, but if everyone thought that way, well we would be living in caves. Im always open to new ideas and think anything can be improved. Im not the ambassador for this idea, and I dont necessarily support it so I dont know why my credibility as a geocacher should be in this discussion, but still, I think you missed the mark in what ideas I was trying to project. 1. Its not that my idea was to turn it into a sport or competition, thats suggesting we take the entire game and make new rules. no. The idea was to make a small optional side tab people could click and see a rank based on different types of caches logged, which wouldnt change much if anything. As for the second paragraph; Ive been geocaching since I was six when my grandmother introduced me to it, I loved it and it was never a speed or amount factor for me, I always enjoy the journey rather than the destination and appreciate the time and work people put into making them, thats the idea of geocaching isnt it? My previous account name was kid cacher, I grew out of that name and used one of my old usernames that i never even logged a cache on since 06, ive found 20 geocaches this weekend including many mystery and blah blah, your making me stray off topic, I would consider myself a veteran of this game though. I can see your points, Ive just had the topic be brought up by other geocachers and wanted to see what the general consensus was on this, its almost like the white elephant in the room.

Edited by fiefer
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whats a way to keep people geocaching and build some friendly competition between geocachers.
I think a better way to build some friendly competition is to start by building friendships among local geocachers. Organize events, promote a local forum, etc., and then people will figure out ways to have a friendly competition about whatever aspects of the game they enjoy. Maybe it's maintaining a high average difficulty stat, or a high average terrain stat. Maybe it's maintaining a streak, or logging the caches in kablooey's puzzle challenge before their friends. Maybe it's offering a geocoin to anyone who completes a "death march" (12+ miles, 1500+ feet elevation gain, 1+ cache found). Maybe it's organizing something as elaborate as the GBA's annual Venona ACTIVITIES. But this kind of thing happens when people get to know each other, not when Groundspeak decides to add a new feature to their site.

 

So why not build regional rankings, an example would be per city or region it would show the geocacher with the most smileys on a top ten or something list, then on different scales, provincial and national and global (I live in canada) which would reward senior members who have been geocaching for a long time, they would see where they rank.
Why smilies? Why not difficulty/terrain stars? Or favorites points? Or longest streaks? Or cache types? Or finds per unit time? Or ratio of finds to DNFs? Or ratio of "redeemed" DNFs to "unredeemed" DNFs? Or geocaching "karma points" (using any of the various definitions that have been devised)? Or... whatever else? How do you decide what the basis for the "friendly competition" (i.e., official ranking) should be?

 

Or as a second idea, to make everybody equal in this system and eliminate the smiley system, what if cache owners printed a code, or printed a special bar code or those smart phone squares you can take a picture of, and every time you do a geocache you can manually put this specific to that cache code on the website, or get your smartphone to instantly upload it.
And what if the code goes missing? Or if the cache owner never put one in the cache to begin with? Or if the cache owner put the wrong one in the wrong cache?

 

Can I as a cache owner opt out of this system without being harassed by people who need me to leave a code in my caches so they can play their side game?

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whats a way to keep people geocaching and build some friendly competition between geocachers.
I think a better way to build some friendly competition is to start by building friendships among local geocachers. Organize events, promote a local forum, etc., and then people will figure out ways to have a friendly competition about whatever aspects of the game they enjoy. Maybe it's maintaining a high average difficulty stat, or a high average terrain stat. Maybe it's maintaining a streak, or logging the caches in kablooey's puzzle challenge before their friends. Maybe it's offering a geocoin to anyone who completes a "death march" (12+ miles, 1500+ feet elevation gain, 1+ cache found). Maybe it's organizing something as elaborate as the GBA's annual Venona ACTIVITIES. But this kind of thing happens when people get to know each other, not when Groundspeak decides to add a new feature to their site.

 

So why not build regional rankings, an example would be per city or region it would show the geocacher with the most smileys on a top ten or something list, then on different scales, provincial and national and global (I live in canada) which would reward senior members who have been geocaching for a long time, they would see where they rank.
Why smilies? Why not difficulty/terrain stars? Or favorites points? Or longest streaks? Or cache types? Or finds per unit time? Or ratio of finds to DNFs? Or ratio of "redeemed" DNFs to "unredeemed" DNFs? Or geocaching "karma points" (using any of the various definitions that have been devised)? Or... whatever else? How do you decide what the basis for the "friendly competition" (i.e., official ranking) should be?

 

Or as a second idea, to make everybody equal in this system and eliminate the smiley system, what if cache owners printed a code, or printed a special bar code or those smart phone squares you can take a picture of, and every time you do a geocache you can manually put this specific to that cache code on the website, or get your smartphone to instantly upload it.
And what if the code goes missing? Or if the cache owner never put one in the cache to begin with? Or if the cache owner put the wrong one in the wrong cache?

 

Can I as a cache owner opt out of this system without being harassed by people who need me to leave a code in my caches so they can play their side game?

Your right in some aspects and raise good questions,

 

1st paragrah; I never said it was the best way to meet local geocachers or have friendly competition, but rather that it was a way, I was trying to throw positives out there, both are ways to offer competition, your just giving an alternative.

 

2nd paragraph; Yes I was rather vague on the criteria for the point system, I was just trying to throw the main idea out there to people to see what they thought and even put an "etc" to leave to peoples imagination as you offered some great ideas. I think timed points should be out of the question as that would make it "too competitive" because some people just like to find them, and take their time, whereas some might do five in one day and stop for the week, others might do one a day for a week and still manage to get home and see they are higher on the rankings (assuming they did the same caches) travel bugs, terrain and many other ideas could be added to get points, some like this idea others aren't too keen, im just trying to get the general consensus.

 

3.Yes as a cache owner you can opt out, I dont see what the point would be since it would already be an optional game, and a code could be put on the "stop this is a geocache" paper. But yes you could write on the cache description simply "no code cache" or something like that and nobody would harass or ask you if there's a code. Thank you for the time you took to write your post

Edited by fiefer
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As do I, im not saying to turn geocaching mainstream, just to let it appeal to others and not just yourself. I know many people who geocached for many years then lost interest, for me theres nothing better than relaxing and enjoying the scenery, im merely throwing ideas to appeal to all audiences and keep interest in all members

 

Like you I know many who have lost interest, but most of them left geocaching because it became too much of a numbers game and competitions, rankings, points etc became too important and because there are too many geocaches and geocachers around which causes a lot of problems at least in my country. In the early years one could easily hide caches at certain locations which should not receive too much traffic, but nowadays this became very difficult.

 

I'm against anything which strengthens what has happened throughout the last years. Then also the last remaining old-timers will leave geocaching.

 

What is happening on the munzee site clearly shows me to which unfortunate effects point systems and various sorts of ranking systems

lead to. This is definitely nothing I want to have on geocaching.com. The effect of powertrails is already bad enough.

 

I'm not interested into attracting even more people into the activity. The natural growth is already too high anyway.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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the idea of logging on to the site and seeing where you rank

 

There were rankings on find count on Geocaching.com early on. Removed, and I think little to no chance they'll ever come back.

 

The people who care about relative rankings are using the Grand Poobah site now.

 

My observation is that most people who stay in the game over time are NOT interested in other people's stats or Geocaching as competition. They may or may not be interested in their own stats.

 

Obviously, some people are quite competitively driven, but at any given time, it's very, very few. Most of those who get into competitive caching tend to burn out, as it's simultaneously boring and repetitive, and very demanding of time, money, endurance. People get into it for while, and then move on, sometimes totally out of the game, sometimes easing back to finding a few now and then.

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whats a way to keep people geocaching and build some friendly competition between geocachers.
I think incorporating a sense of competition between geocachers might engage people more and would provide a fun idea.

 

If you're in geocaching for the competition I think you've chosen the wrong hobby.

 

If you want to keep people in geoaching then keep geocaching fun. If you want to keep geocaching fun then find ways to encourage people to place good containers in good locations listed with good cache pages, COs to keep them well-maintained, and Finders to write good logs.

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As do I, im not saying to turn geocaching mainstream, just to let it appeal to others and not just yourself. I know many people who geocached for many years then lost interest, for me theres nothing better than relaxing and enjoying the scenery, im merely throwing ideas to appeal to all audiences and keep interest in all members

 

Like you I know many who have lost interest, but most of them left geocaching because it became too much of a numbers game and competitions, rankings, points etc became too important and because there are too many geocaches and geocachers around which causes a lot of problems at least in my country. In the early years one could easily hide caches at certain locations which should not receive too much traffic, but nowadays this became very difficult.

 

I'm against anything which strengthens what has happened throughout the last years. Then also the last remaining old-timers will leave geocaching.

 

What is happening on the munzee site clearly shows me to which unfortunate effects point systems and various sorts of ranking systems

lead to. This is definitely nothing I want to have on geocaching.com. The effect of powertrails is already bad enough.

 

I'm not interested into attracting even more people into the activity. The natural growth is already too high anyway.

 

Cezanne

 

This post needs to get pinned somewhere.

 

Of course, you should expect to be accused of being closed minded, defensive and perhaps a cave dweller.

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Im just looking at how we can improve and appeal to audiences that are losing interest, and it seems you are completely missing the point here as everybody isnt the same as you, it wouldnt neccisarrily to be whos better, I mean it would mean something different to everyone. It would also be a way to meet local geocachers. Im just trying to be open minded, as I can see alot of people are afraid of change and are getting on the defensive, my idea would by some small optional tab on the website you wouldnt even have to bother with if you didnt want too, but some people may want it, I mean im just trying to get some constructive positives and negatives from people here.

 

It's sad that people who disagree with you get such a combative response. Not the definition of 'open-minded'.

The responses here seem to be: "Nope. Bad idea." So, if you were open-minded, you would accept that.

Checked Gran Poobah, and I'm still #27 in New Jersey. I think I've been in that spot for quite a while. I'm not a competitive geocacher. I do this for fun. It's a great hobby. But it's a hobby, not a competitive sport. And open-minded people would accept that, instead of being combative with people who disagree with them.

Other point brought up by others is define your local region'. Most of my finds are in New Jersey. But, I also have a number of finds in New York, Maine and Pennsylvania. I'm probably still high on the list of finds in New York City, but only because I've been at this for almost nine years. Is that my local region??

One definition of 'open-minded' is 'taking No for an answer'. That does not seem to be accepted here. Anyone who disagrees with you (and that seems to be most of the responses) gets a combative response. Try being open-minded! Answer seems to be: Nope! Not interested.

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I am spending far less time caching than I have in the past, in part because there were too many caches being placed simply because there was a spot on the map that did not have a container. Rankings would not increase my participation in the game. In fact, a couple of years ago I asked that I be removed from a few third party "leader" lists. I keep my stats private.

 

There is another location based game I play where I am ranked Numbet One in my city, state, country, and world. My friends and I think it's kind of funny but it has never been a goal -- nor do I expect anyone to be impressed by that any more than I am impressed by the numbers of the leaders in this game.

 

This is not to say that numbers can't be fun. I hope someday to reach the next earthcache level and would love it if I could reach a certain number of virtuals. But those are for my own enjoyment. Not to rank myself against others.

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Seems like we were having this discussion back when I joined 10 years ago.

 

There have have always been cachers motivated by numbers and statistics and others who only care to find a few caches and expect each find to be an adventure, and blame the numbers cachers for the many caches that don't meet their standards.

 

The reality it that in order to attract people, geocaching has to have some overall feel of a game. For some the discovery of an individual caches is enough to make them want to come back over and over. But many people enjoy a meta-game based on statistics or challenges. Game mechanics often involve some sort of scoring.

 

Developers of online and mobile games have long realized that a meta-game is needed to keep players coming back and spending more time on their games. A prime example are video games where you keep advancing to higher levels. Even the old time arcade video games had a place for the high-scorer to enter their name. That encouraged more play as people would continue to play until they got their name on the high-scorer list.

 

So too can these meta-games encourage people to continue geocaching (and to spend money to be premium members). One example is FTF, where some people become premium members just to get instant notification of new caches. Challenges and the statistics tab are encouraging people to set goals that often result in them caching more and sometime to pay for premium features to make achieving the goal easier.

 

I've speculated that Waymarking is less popular than geocaching because it never developed this meta-game play. There have been some attempts at it, even by Groundspeak, but they haven't caught on like the geocaching meta-games.

 

Just as there were 10 years ago, there are those who believe that geocaching has already gotten too big and that these meta-games have changed the nature of the game. While this group is vocal in this forum, I don't think they account for a great many geocachers. While the biggest group is probably those who geocache only occasionally and nothing is going to motivate them to do it more often; the people for whom meta-game provide the incentive to cache more often and stay involved longer are as significant number. In addition this is the group most likely to spend the money on premium memberships. My guess in that OP's plan is more likely to be evaluated on whether we need yet another meta-game for geocaching, or if the current formal and informal meta-games are already attracting these cachers.

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So too can these meta-games encourage people to continue geocaching (and to spend money to be premium members). One example is FTF, where some people become premium members just to get instant notification of new caches. Challenges and the statistics tab are encouraging people to set goals that often result in them caching more and sometime to pay for premium features to make achieving the goal easier.

 

Groundspeak has a number of tools in place for people to play "meta-games."

 

The site provides a running tally of your finds. There are places that record rankings based on this but Groundspeak does not recognize a caching "leader" and can choose not to participate in this. You can get notifications but Groundspeak does not officially support the FTF side game and i have managed to sign a few hundred blank logs without using the three initials. Groundspeak lets users place repetitive caching trails that allow people to collect a number of smileys in a given period but does not list who has collected the most. They keep a number of stats, but nobody else need see them. There are challenge caches, earthcache levels, and other goals that can be set on an individual level - but there are no winners, losers, or a hall of fame. It's just a game.

 

So I think Groundspeak has it right in some respects. Give people the means to do what they want to do, yet step back from the "meta games" and simply concentrate on their role as a listing service. Nobody is telling people not to keep score if that is what they do. But Groundspeak does not need to have a score card and I don't think it would benefit the game if they did.

Edited by geodarts
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Im just looking at how we can improve and appeal to audiences that are losing interest, and it seems you are completely missing the point here as everybody isnt the same as you, it wouldnt neccisarrily to be whos better, I mean it would mean something different to everyone. It would also be a way to meet local geocachers. Im just trying to be open minded, as I can see alot of people are afraid of change and are getting on the defensive, my idea would by some small optional tab on the website you wouldnt even have to bother with if you didnt want too, but some people may want it, I mean im just trying to get some constructive positives and negatives from people here.

 

It's sad that people who disagree with you get such a combative response. Not the definition of 'open-minded'.

The responses here seem to be: "Nope. Bad idea." So, if you were open-minded, you would accept that.

Checked Gran Poobah, and I'm still #27 in New Jersey. I think I've been in that spot for quite a while. I'm not a competitive geocacher. I do this for fun. It's a great hobby. But it's a hobby, not a competitive sport. And open-minded people would accept that, instead of being combative with people who disagree with them.

Other point brought up by others is define your local region'. Most of my finds are in New Jersey. But, I also have a number of finds in New York, Maine and Pennsylvania. I'm probably still high on the list of finds in New York City, but only because I've been at this for almost nine years. Is that my local region??

One definition of 'open-minded' is 'taking No for an answer'. That does not seem to be accepted here. Anyone who disagrees with you (and that seems to be most of the responses) gets a combative response. Try being open-minded! Answer seems to be: Nope! Not interested.

Not at all, im seeing everybodys point and thanking them for it, you may not have read half my posts. Most of the posters here i agree with and have shown clearly that I do, I cant just jump wagon as you may want me to do, its a discussion, and many here have misinterpreted my intentions on these ideas, Its not being close minded, since im seeing all of these points of views, while others are merely looking at a post and saying "no, this is how it has been and how it always should be case closed"

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As do I, im not saying to turn geocaching mainstream, just to let it appeal to others and not just yourself. I know many people who geocached for many years then lost interest, for me theres nothing better than relaxing and enjoying the scenery, im merely throwing ideas to appeal to all audiences and keep interest in all members

 

Like you I know many who have lost interest, but most of them left geocaching because it became too much of a numbers game and competitions, rankings, points etc became too important and because there are too many geocaches and geocachers around which causes a lot of problems at least in my country. In the early years one could easily hide caches at certain locations which should not receive too much traffic, but nowadays this became very difficult.

 

I'm against anything which strengthens what has happened throughout the last years. Then also the last remaining old-timers will leave geocaching.

 

What is happening on the munzee site clearly shows me to which unfortunate effects point systems and various sorts of ranking systems

lead to. This is definitely nothing I want to have on geocaching.com. The effect of powertrails is already bad enough.

 

I'm not interested into attracting even more people into the activity. The natural growth is already too high anyway.

 

Cezanne

This is a great example of a constructive post, and i really apreciate your response. This post really helped me see the overall mentality and spirit of it. I am against the growth and and mainstreaming of the hobby so I know what you mean, like everyone here the last thing id want to see is the hobby drastically changed into something that doesnt see the true spirit of geocaching

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As do I, im not saying to turn geocaching mainstream, just to let it appeal to others and not just yourself. I know many people who geocached for many years then lost interest, for me theres nothing better than relaxing and enjoying the scenery, im merely throwing ideas to appeal to all audiences and keep interest in all members

 

Like you I know many who have lost interest, but most of them left geocaching because it became too much of a numbers game and competitions, rankings, points etc became too important and because there are too many geocaches and geocachers around which causes a lot of problems at least in my country. In the early years one could easily hide caches at certain locations which should not receive too much traffic, but nowadays this became very difficult.

 

I'm against anything which strengthens what has happened throughout the last years. Then also the last remaining old-timers will leave geocaching.

 

What is happening on the munzee site clearly shows me to which unfortunate effects point systems and various sorts of ranking systems

lead to. This is definitely nothing I want to have on geocaching.com. The effect of powertrails is already bad enough.

 

I'm not interested into attracting even more people into the activity. The natural growth is already too high anyway.

 

Cezanne

 

This post needs to get pinned somewhere.

 

Of course, you should expect to be accused of being closed minded, defensive and perhaps a cave dweller.

I understood your post completely, and it wasnt meant to be disrespectful to you, although you came across in a decent way despite the second paragraph, unlike this post^. Im just trying to raise valid points as is everybody else, I understand what you were trying to say, just didnt see why you had to question my legitimacy of being a geocacher based of the number of cache finds I have logged on this site. It proves my point.

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im just trying to get the general consensus.
Good luck with that. There isn't even consensus on the FTF side game, and the question of who found a cache first is much more straight-forward than the question of how to rank geocachers.

 

Yes as a cache owner you can opt out, I dont see what the point would be since it would already be an optional game, and a code could be put on the "stop this is a geocache" paper.
Why should I have to put a code on my stash notes?

 

Some owners may not want to bother. Others may think the competition for rankings has a negative effect on the game, and want nothing to do with it. You may not understand why a CO would opt out, but they will. Not everyone will want to play the ranking game (however it might be defined).

 

But yes you could write on the cache description simply "no code cache" or something like that and nobody would harass or ask you if there's a code.
Why should I have to put a "no code cache" disclaimer in my cache description?

 

But I still see problems with any side game that requires cache owners to provide some sort of verification code to support it.

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... also different caches give you more points, multi caches give higher points while micros give less,...

 

 

if the point system were set up so that micros gave negative points, I might support this idea.

I know what you mean, in the past few days ive spent a few hours underneath ivy plants and in parks scratching my head for hours while trying not to look like I should be in the police watch list, all while trying to find something smaller than my hand.

Have you seen a doctor?

 

;)

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... also different caches give you more points, multi caches give higher points while micros give less,...

 

 

if the point system were set up so that micros gave negative points, I might support this idea.

I know what you mean, in the past few days ive spent a few hours underneath ivy plants and in parks scratching my head for hours while trying not to look like I should be in the police watch list, all while trying to find something smaller than my hand.

Have you seen a doctor?

;)

well, I may need an optometrist because the CO putting all these geocaches in ivy bushes is making me question my vision. If i saw a doctor I probably know what he would tell me, lay off the micros for a couple days while you still have your sanity.

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im just trying to get the general consensus.
Good luck with that. There isn't even consensus on the FTF side game, and the question of who found a cache first is much more straight-forward than the question of how to rank geocachers.

 

Yes as a cache owner you can opt out, I dont see what the point would be since it would already be an optional game, and a code could be put on the "stop this is a geocache" paper.
Why should I have to put a code on my stash notes?

 

Some owners may not want to bother. Others may think the competition for rankings has a negative effect on the game, and want nothing to do with it. You may not understand why a CO would opt out, but they will. Not everyone will want to play the ranking game (however it might be defined).

 

But yes you could write on the cache description simply "no code cache" or something like that and nobody would harass or ask you if there's a code.
Why should I have to put a "no code cache" disclaimer in my cache description?

 

But I still see problems with any side game that requires cache owners to provide some sort of verification code to support it.

good questions, and they would be very prominent ones if this idea became popular. What you quoted I was asked in full "Can I as a cache owner opt out of this system without being harassed by people who need me to leave a code in my caches so they can play their side game?" I stated that the CO would leave those three little words "No Code Cache" only so that they wouldnt have people messaging them and wondering if there was a code or not. I can understand where you're coming from though, it seems if this side feaure were to come into play many would be relucatant to do this, though writing three words on the description doesnt seem hard to me, and were talking hypothetically here, so if it became popular and the CO couldnt write three words saying they dont want to participate which would also make it so they wouldnt be heckled by side game players, well they would be digging their own wouldnt they?

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so if it became popular and the CO couldnt write three words saying they dont want to participate which would also make it so they wouldnt be heckled by side game players, well they would be digging their own wouldnt they?
Why should people who just want to play the normal geocaching game need to do ANYTHING to avoid hassle from others who play side games?

 

For some reason, I am reminded of the numbers run trail side game, and the way it spills over and affects other caches and other cache owners. Owners of normal caches (who assume seekers will follow basic rules like "Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.") have found their caches being subjected to numbers run trail techniques like the three cache monte. Sure, owners of normal caches could post "please return the cache to its original location" in the cache description. But they shouldn't need to, and the absence of such a notice should not be taken as consent for geocachers to shuffle these cache containers down the road.

 

Likewise, I don't think it's fair for an FTF side game or a geocacher ranking side game or any other side game to expect or pressure cache owners to change their caches or their cache descriptions for the sake of the side game.

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As do I, im not saying to turn geocaching mainstream, just to let it appeal to others and not just yourself. I know many people who geocached for many years then lost interest, for me theres nothing better than relaxing and enjoying the scenery, im merely throwing ideas to appeal to all audiences and keep interest in all members

 

Like you I know many who have lost interest, but most of them left geocaching because it became too much of a numbers game and competitions, rankings, points etc became too important and because there are too many geocaches and geocachers around which causes a lot of problems at least in my country. In the early years one could easily hide caches at certain locations which should not receive too much traffic, but nowadays this became very difficult.

 

I'm against anything which strengthens what has happened throughout the last years. Then also the last remaining old-timers will leave geocaching.

 

What is happening on the munzee site clearly shows me to which unfortunate effects point systems and various sorts of ranking systems

lead to. This is definitely nothing I want to have on geocaching.com. The effect of powertrails is already bad enough.

 

I'm not interested into attracting even more people into the activity. The natural growth is already too high anyway.

 

Cezanne

 

This post needs to get pinned somewhere.

 

Of course, you should expect to be accused of being closed minded, defensive and perhaps a cave dweller.

I understood your post completely, and it wasnt meant to be disrespectful to you, although you came across in a decent way despite the second paragraph, unlike this post^. Im just trying to raise valid points as is everybody else, I understand what you were trying to say, just didnt see why you had to question my legitimacy of being a geocacher based of the number of cache finds I have logged on this site. It proves my point.

 

I was not questioning your legitimacy at all. I was trying to understand the perspective that you were coming from. I even posed the possibility that you had found more caches than were listed in your profile. You need to understand that all too often, those that have not really geocached at all, come to these forums and start proposing changes to a game that they haven't really played.

 

As far as your intentions. I don't think that anyone misunderstands your intentions. Most of us simply do not believe that your proposed changes would accomplish what you intend. In fact, some of think that it would do something completely different.

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Add me to the 'not interested' list.

 

I would rather Groundspeak not waste any resources to 'add a side tab' or anything to enable a competitive 'side game'.

(There is already one pointless waste of resources on cache pages that I can't 'opt out of' or completely remove.)

 

As a cache owner, I would not consider adding a 'disclaimer' to my caches so anyone playing your side-game would know my cache(s) were out of that game...and in fact I might consider adding a fake code in my caches just to mess with those who WOULD want to turn Geocaching into even more of a competition than it already is.

 

Please try to focus yourself on ways to improve Geocaching without making it a competition.

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The whole scenario reminds me of Marching Band Competitions. Early marching bands put on a new show for each half-time of the football game. Someone's director boasted his marching band was better than someone else's, so they had a competition. Directors started taking great pride in their success at competitions. Soon they were working on perfecting a single field show for the season that was designed to elicit a response from the judges at the competition. My Senior Year in high school, we didn't have a final version of our field show until the end of October, which was the state competition. There was only one football game left in the season. So the football game only received portions of the field show all season. My son is now in the same school district and doesn't even show a complete show for the football games, but they reserve their full effort for the competition. They also rarely work on parade marching at all, and only march in one parade - the town's Homecoming parade. Somewhere along the way, I believe the directors lost sight of the Marching Band's original purpose: entertaining families at the half-time of the football game.

 

I wrote that over four years ago. Here's another analogy:

I was part of a singing organization that prided itself in preserving a particular idiom of music in a particular style. They also have competitions to showcase the best groups of the area. The particular group I was a part of was small and made of much older members when compared to other groups. Other than the director, I was the only musically trained person. The group spent 6 months preparing two songs for the 10 minute performance in the competition. They did away with those pesky things like concerts and selling tickets. I soon left the organization - out of sheer boredom.

 

Competition can bring out an urge for greater participation, but in at least two instances, I've seen competition and the drive to be "better" take away from the core values of the program. Geocaching's core values are using GPS technology to find containers.

 

Let's take the competition to the extreme to show just what might be down the road...

People really want to find a large number of caches quickly, but Groundspeak has a rule about caches being 528 feet apart. Why don't I find a 10 bike path that was a converted railway path - that has mile markers every 10th of a mile? Then I can place a ziplock bag with a slip of paper on each of these signs." People come from miles around to find this series of 100 caches so they can increase their find count and get people higher in the ranks of the competition. Others will state that these caches must be popular because people keep finding them.

 

I believe this scenario isn't that far-fetched given that people already see their higher find count as some status symbol. Adding fuel to the fire by officially sanctioning some type of competition will only increase the likelihood of this type of placement. However, given that someone could start at the first post by finding it on a map, and then not even take the GPS out of their car - it's getting away from Geocaching's core value. No GPS is needed (but you could use one) and ziplocks are containers only in the fact that they hold paper.

 

Before we go changing something that has brought much enjoyment over the course of many years, we need to look at the full consequences of those changes and what they might mean to the activity as a whole.

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I think ice cream eating competitions are a better analogy than marching bands and singing groups. :mmraspberry:

 

We all love to eat ice cream and most of us do it for the enjoyment of a delicious frozen high-calorie dessert. So we look askance at ice cream eating competitions. It can't possibly be healthy. The competitors look like pigs at a trough. Doesn't it make your head hurt? Almost always it involves less expensive lower quality ice cream.

 

But despite the fact that competitive ice cream eating exists, it hasn't spoiled most people's enjoyment of ice cream.

 

Now geocaching isn't ice cream. I suspect that ice cream would be just as popular without ice cream competitions as with them. I believe that while Groundspeak could run a business based on only those who ignore the find count and simply have fun on the occasions they cache, this market has limited growth potential.

 

For many years marching bands and amateur singing groups existed just to provide entertainment at half-time or perhaps to give free concerts at retirement homes. For different reasons, these activities have faced difficult times in recent years. Funding has been cut for a lot of high school music programs. And in both areas, the modern world provides many other activities and people who used participate in them are spending their time elsewhere.

 

Competitions became popular to encourage people to stay in these activities by providing another goal or challenge. In the end, it may be the economic gains the organizers of competition see that has lead to them becoming such an important part of these activities. A lot of money gets spent directly and indirectly on these competitions. Businesses that provide equipment and services to the participants find these competition a great marketing tool and often sponsor the groups that have a chance to win.

 

The problem I see with viewing the OP's suggestion as a competition, is that it would be a competition over logging of on-line Found logs. Counting the number of logs someone posts is different from judging the routine of a marching band or the performance of a singing group. It is even different than counting how much ice cream someone eats in front of spectators and judges in a given amount of time.

 

The OP's suggestion is more of asking for additional statistics than a "competition". We already look at other peoples find counts and compare them to our own. For some people there is a curiosity over who has found the most caches, or who in their state has found the most caches. Perhaps there is some interest in who has found the most caches (and logged them online) in the past month or year. These are not real competitions, but they allow people use the statistics to set personal goals. Perhaps next month I can find more caches than the current leader, etc. Of course I am also free to ignore these statistics and just find caches at the rate I feel comfortable caching at, while being selective in the caches I hunt.

Edited by tozainamboku
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But despite the fact that competitive ice cream eating exists, it hasn't spoiled most people's enjoyment of ice cream.

 

 

True, but perhaps I would hesitate if the freezer door of the place I choose to get my ice cream were plastered with the results of last weeks competition and encouragement for me to 'join in the fun' of gorging myself with low-quality ice cream when in fact what I really want is a small quantity of really good quality ice cream.

 

I could probably learn to ignore the leader-board on the freezer door, but probably I would begin searching for a new place to buy ice cream where I could make my selection without having to look past such nonsense.

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I could probably learn to ignore the leader-board on the freezer door, but probably I would begin searching for a new place to buy ice cream where I could make my selection without having to look past such nonsense.

I suppose if Mr. Frog's Ice Cream is advertising ice cream eating competitions too much, you could start going to Squirrelly Ice Cream. You won't find as many flavors and there is nonsense there as well, but at least you have that choice.

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Add me to the 'not interested' list.

 

I would rather Groundspeak not waste any resources to 'add a side tab' or anything to enable a competitive 'side game'.

(There is already one pointless waste of resources on cache pages that I can't 'opt out of' or completely remove.)

 

As a cache owner, I would not consider adding a 'disclaimer' to my caches so anyone playing your side-game would know my cache(s) were out of that game...and in fact I might consider adding a fake code in my caches just to mess with those who WOULD want to turn Geocaching into even more of a competition than it already is.

 

Please try to focus yourself on ways to improve Geocaching without making it a competition.

I understand your points, and you should try to understand that your last sentence was my intentions to begin with, merely trying to find ways to improve the game without causing displeasure towards the people who know and love the game. Though a couple lines in this reply sound quite devious, and that if you did do what your saying, you would be misunderstanding the entire concept and hurting others who wouldnt even have that intention but who merely want to enjoy or try something. The last thing id want to see is geocaching being changed in a negative or drastic way, and thats not near what I was proposing in trying to understand everyones thoughts on this concept

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I understand your points, and you should try to understand that your last sentence was my intentions to begin with, merely trying to find ways to improve the game without causing displeasure towards the people who know and love the game. Though a couple lines in this reply sound quite devious, and that if you did do what your saying, you would be misunderstanding the entire concept and hurting others who wouldnt even have that intention but who merely want to enjoy or try something. The last thing id want to see is geocaching being changed in a negative or drastic way, and thats not near what I was proposing in trying to understand everyones thoughts on this concept

 

Certainly there are many Geocachers who relish the thought of competing, and enjoy seeing how they 'stack up' against other Geocachers in their respective areas based on find counts and/or whatever other criteria can be thought up.

 

Probably there are many more Geocachers who couldn't give a ^&*%! how their stats compare to anyone else's, and never actually look at their own stats anyway.

 

Given that there are plenty of other sites that will show you this information (if you care to look), I can't see how the effort to derive such details needs to be duplicated here.

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I am new to geocaching and while this question isn't directly related to competition, I wonder how some people manage to find 100 or more caches in a day? That amounts to one cache in less than 15 minutes for 24 hours. I couldn't travel from one cache to the next in an average of less than 15 minutes let alone find and log that many. Does anyone have any idea how people do this?

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I am new to geocaching and while this question isn't directly related to competition, I wonder how some people manage to find 100 or more caches in a day? That amounts to one cache in less than 15 minutes for 24 hours. I couldn't travel from one cache to the next in an average of less than 15 minutes let alone find and log that many. Does anyone have any idea how people do this?

 

Powertrails.

 

A cache every 530 feet along a country road with easy parking. All the caches are essentially the same, and are exceptionally easy to locate. In some cases cachers will resort to bizarre methods to speed the process even more.

 

That being said, 100 caches could easily be done before lunch in the proper area...and without resorting to any bizarre logging antics.

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I am new to geocaching and while this question isn't directly related to competition, I wonder how some people manage to find 100 or more caches in a day? That amounts to one cache in less than 15 minutes for 24 hours. I couldn't travel from one cache to the next in an average of less than 15 minutes let alone find and log that many. Does anyone have any idea how people do this?

 

Careful planning, a high concentration of unfound caches in a city that has streets laid out on a grid and the "seven minute rule". If you don't find the cache is seven minutes, go to the next one.

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