Grandfather the Letterbox Hybrid type

[+L0ne.R]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." The cache title is "The Cache is in the Mail". The next most recent LBH posting in my area had a hole punch in the box, not a stamp. The hole punch didn't match the theme either.

 

I know this is going to fall on GS deaf ears and nothing will be done but the LBH experiment is a frustrating fail. Plus it's confusing since the LBH type can be a traditional, multi, or puzzle type. It's a cache type made up of various cache types. I say grandfather the letterbox hybrid cache type and anyone who plants a cache with a stamp in it can continue to do so if it floats their boat but make it either a traditional, multi or puzzle/mystery.

 

[+Isonzo Karst]

Full agreement here. Make it an attribute, and do away with type.

 

It made some sense back in the early days, some significant percentage of geocaches listed were cross listed letterboxes. Now,it's mostly just a cache of some other flavor with a store bought stamp.

[Clan Riffster]

Maybe just change the requirements? To me, a letterbox hybrid is more than just a box with a stamp, regardless of how the current guidelines define them. When I think letterbox hybrid, I think of a box with a stamp, preferably handmade, which you locate by following directions on a cache page, such as, "Find the green sign at he posted coordinates. Walk 34' on a bearing of 126* magnetic, where you'll find a lone cypress. Follow the path which starts there roughly 633' southwest to a large stump beside the trail. Look behind the stump for an ammo can".

[4wheelin_fool]

Do away with it and there will be a surge of people listing them. Perhaps they should be reviewed more closely.

[+briansnat]

Do away with it and there will be a surge of people listing them. Perhaps they should be reviewed more closely.

 

What's to review more closely? Does it have a stamp? It's eligible to be a LB hybrid. Does it otherwise conform to the guidelines? Publish.

Edited June 27, 2013 by briansnat

[+stijnhommes]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." The cache title is "The Cache is in the Mail". The next most recent LBH posting in my area had a hole punch in the box, not a stamp. The hole punch didn't match the theme either.

 

I know this is going to fall on GS deaf ears and nothing will be done but the LBH experiment is a frustrating fail. Plus it's confusing since the LBH type can be a traditional, multi, or puzzle type. It's a cache type made up of various cache types. I say grandfather the letterbox hybrid cache type and anyone who plants a cache with a stamp in it can continue to do so if it floats their boat but make it either a traditional, multi or puzzle/mystery.

If that particular letterbox hydbrid doesn't adhere to the rules, why can't you just ask for it to be archived, instead of ruining the fun for people who enjoy letterboxes not only in your town but all across the world. The solution doesn't fit the problem at all.

[+briansnat]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." The cache title is "The Cache is in the Mail". The next most recent LBH posting in my area had a hole punch in the box, not a stamp. The hole punch didn't match the theme either.

 

I know this is going to fall on GS deaf ears and nothing will be done but the LBH experiment is a frustrating fail. Plus it's confusing since the LBH type can be a traditional, multi, or puzzle type. It's a cache type made up of various cache types. I say grandfather the letterbox hybrid cache type and anyone who plants a cache with a stamp in it can continue to do so if it floats their boat but make it either a traditional, multi or puzzle/mystery.

If that particular letterbox hydbrid doesn't adhere to the rules, why can't you just ask for it to be archived, instead of ruining the fun for people who enjoy letterboxes not only in your town but all across the world. The solution doesn't fit the problem at all.

 

I don't see anything in the OP's post that indicates this doesn't adhere to the guidelines for a LB hybrid. It has a stamp, that is all the guidelines want. The guidelines don't say it has to be a hand carved stamp that has something to do do with the LB theme.

Edited June 27, 2013 by briansnat

[+L0ne.R]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." The cache title is "The Cache is in the Mail". The next most recent LBH posting in my area had a hole punch in the box, not a stamp. The hole punch didn't match the theme either.

 

I know this is going to fall on GS deaf ears and nothing will be done but the LBH experiment is a frustrating fail. Plus it's confusing since the LBH type can be a traditional, multi, or puzzle type. It's a cache type made up of various cache types. I say grandfather the letterbox hybrid cache type and anyone who plants a cache with a stamp in it can continue to do so if it floats their boat but make it either a traditional, multi or puzzle/mystery.

If that particular letterbox hydbrid doesn't adhere to the rules, why can't you just ask for it to be archived, instead of ruining the fun for people who enjoy letterboxes not only in your town but all across the world. The solution doesn't fit the problem at all.

 

What is it about letterboxes you enjoy and why couldn't a cache with a stamp that's listed as a puzzle or traditional still be enjoyed just as much? From my 10 year perspective on LBHs what people enjoy is the icon.

[Clan Riffster]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." The cache title is "The Cache is in the Mail". The next most recent LBH posting in my area had a hole punch in the box, not a stamp. The hole punch didn't match the theme either.

 

I know this is going to fall on GS deaf ears and nothing will be done but the LBH experiment is a frustrating fail. Plus it's confusing since the LBH type can be a traditional, multi, or puzzle type. It's a cache type made up of various cache types. I say grandfather the letterbox hybrid cache type and anyone who plants a cache with a stamp in it can continue to do so if it floats their boat but make it either a traditional, multi or puzzle/mystery.

If that particular letterbox hydbrid doesn't adhere to the rules, why can't you just ask for it to be archived, instead of ruining the fun for people who enjoy letterboxes not only in your town but all across the world. The solution doesn't fit the problem at all.

 

What is it about letterboxes you enjoy...

I can only speak for me. I enjoy the hunt, following directions to the cache instead of simply going to a set of posted coordinates, and I enjoy the creativity which goes into the hand carved stamps I've found. When I find one that is essentially a traditional with a store bought stamp, I still enjoy it, to a degree, if it is in an interesting location. The icon is not what I'm seeking when I hit the "Go To" button. Rather, the icon is just an end result, based on choices made by the owner when they created the listing.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Walk 34' on a bearing of 126* magnetic, where you'll find a lone cypress. Follow the path which starts there roughly 633' southwest to a large stump beside the trail. Look behind the stump for an ammo can".

This style of cache fits perfectly well into the Unknown category. A field puzzle.

 

I've got half a dozen like this, and never seriously considered making them LBHs.

[+dprovan]

I don't understand why you think this is a problem. So not all caches are great. What else is new? So someone wants an uncommon cache type in their hide list. Why does that bother you?

 

I wouldn't miss letter boxes if they weren't there, but they are there, and I don't see new ones causing anyone any trouble.

 

If you don't think the new ones in your area are good enough, then plant a good one to show the local cachers how to use the cache type well.

[Clan Riffster]

Walk 34' on a bearing of 126* magnetic, where you'll find a lone cypress. Follow the path which starts there roughly 633' southwest to a large stump beside the trail. Look behind the stump for an ammo can".

This style of cache fits perfectly well into the Unknown category. A field puzzle.

 

I've got half a dozen like this, and never seriously considered making them LBHs.

Since the descriptive style of hunt follows the age old format used by letterbox hiders, if you were to drop in a stamp it would also fit perfectly well into the Letterbox Hybrid category. Since it would be reasonable to describe this as an offset hunt, I could argue that it also fits the Multicache category. This is a case where one cache can fit more than one category, which is why I would like to see the LBH category given more stringent definitions.

[Mr.Yuck]

I don't understand why you think this is a problem. So not all caches are great. What else is new? So someone wants an uncommon cache type in their hide list. Why does that bother you?

 

I wouldn't miss letter boxes if they weren't there, but they are there, and I don't see new ones causing anyone any trouble.

 

If you don't think the new ones in your area are good enough, then plant a good one to show the local cachers how to use the cache type well.

 

I'm no world traveler, but from what I've seen, they're pretty much not good enough anywhere. I've found several that never mention ever having had a stamp, and they still got listed. This cache type is about as antiquated as a disposable camera in a .50 cal ammo box, and almost never used as intended. Off with it's head.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Add me to the list of people would prefer Letterbox be an Attribute rather than a cache type.

[+T.D.M.22]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." ...

 

I'm sorry, this is the first I have ever heard of a theme for a letterbox being required. Some of us are just not that artistic to be able to make a stamp. I don't even know how to make one. My attempt at a LBH was first a stamp made from clay. That didn't work to well, so I just used a store bought stamp. I don't see anything wrong with that, could you enlighten me?

 

I think it should stay for those who want them, but I think we should be bale to do it as a ? cache, or maybe even a field puzzle. I mean we have night caches that are "Go to the co-ords and follow the reflectors" That would just be a LBH available at night.

Edited June 27, 2013 by T.D.M.22

[JASTA 11]

... To me, a letterbox hybrid is more than just a box with a stamp, regardless of how the current guidelines define them. When I think letterbox hybrid, I think of a box with a stamp, preferably handmade, which you locate by following directions on a cache page, such as, "Find the green sign at he posted coordinates. Walk 34' on a bearing of 126* magnetic, where you'll find a lone cypress. Follow the path which starts there roughly 633' southwest to a large stump beside the trail. Look behind the stump for an ammo can".

 

Same here. Many LBH's we've seen are just a cache right at the posted coordinates with a cheesy stamp thrown in. No 'offset' directions to follow.

 

No similarities to a true Letterbox hide.

 

 

I don't see anything in the OP's post that indicates this doesn't adhere to the guidelines for a LB hybrid. It has a stamp, that is all the guidelines want. The guidelines don't say it has to be a hand carved stamp that has something to do do with the LB theme.

 

A nice hand-carved stamp shows the pride and effort that was put into the hide. Since I'm not talented enough to make one myself, we had one made for our LBH hide.

 

Putting the stamp issue aside. To keep with the spirit and tradion of letterboxing, the guidelines should specify that the hide needs to be offset from the posted coordinates, and include clues (directions) on how to find the container.

[+Walts Hunting]

This might be a case where almost everyone is right.

 

The guidelines for a LBH are a container with a stamp and pad. There is no requirement that it have the "walk towards the tree and the turn North looking for a rock shaped like a banana" which means the caches mentioned were properly approved by the reviewer.

 

Those that know how a traditional Letterbox works are looking for something that isn't in the guidelines.

 

I do agree that since it doesn't contain that aspect the entire category should be abolished but am not going to get my knickers in a bunch over it. I find them like a traditional, sign the log (no stamp) and move on.

[4wheelin_fool]

Do away with it and there will be a surge of people listing them. Perhaps they should be reviewed more closely.

 

What's to review more closely? Does it have a stamp? It's eligible to be a LB hybrid. Does it otherwise conform to the guidelines? Publish.

 

A hole punch is not a stamp and does not match the letterbox guidelines. The reviewer could be asking more questions about it.

 

I agree they should be offset from the coordinates. Tossing in a stamp so you can have a special icon is cheesy.

Edited June 27, 2013 by 4wheelin_fool

[+Viajero Perdido]

Hybrid.

 

With millions of caches interbeeding with a much smaller gene pool of pure letterboxes, naturally the LBHs are going to start looking, feeling, and sometimes smelling a whole lot like regular geocaches.

[+Kacher82]

I have never seen a LBH listing that had directions to follow to the cache. All the ones I've found are no different than a traditional, with a rubber stamp in them.

[+briansnat]

... To me, a letterbox hybrid is more than just a box with a stamp, regardless of how the current guidelines define them. When I think letterbox hybrid, I think of a box with a stamp, preferably handmade, which you locate by following directions on a cache page, such as, "Find the green sign at he posted coordinates. Walk 34' on a bearing of 126* magnetic, where you'll find a lone cypress. Follow the path which starts there roughly 633' southwest to a large stump beside the trail. Look behind the stump for an ammo can".

 

Same here. Many LBH's we've seen are just a cache right at the posted coordinates with a cheesy stamp thrown in. No 'offset' directions to follow.

 

No similarities to a true Letterbox hide.

 

 

I don't see anything in the OP's post that indicates this doesn't adhere to the guidelines for a LB hybrid. It has a stamp, that is all the guidelines want. The guidelines don't say it has to be a hand carved stamp that has something to do do with the LB theme.

 

A nice hand-carved stamp shows the pride and effort that was put into the hide. Since I'm not talented enough to make one myself, we had one made for our LBH hide.

 

Putting the stamp issue aside. To keep with the spirit and tradion of letterboxing, the guidelines should specify that the hide needs to be offset from the posted coordinates, and include clues (directions) on how to find the container.

 

You're misinterpreting the reason for LB hybrids. The original intent was to have geocaches that were also available to letterboxers. They are not intended to provide a letterboxing style experience for geocachers, they are simply both geocaches AND letterboxes.

 

For a geocacher the fact that a cache is a LB hybrid should mean absolutely nothing to them outside the icon they get for finding one in their profile.

[+dprovan]

I'm no world traveler, but from what I've seen, they're pretty much not good enough anywhere.

I'm sorry to hear that. I've found 12 so far, and their quality ranged from good to outstanding. I wonder if that's the difference between the letterboxes we've found or a difference in how you and I judge their quality.

 

I've found several that never mention ever having had a stamp, and they still got listed.

For example, the stamp, while fun, has virtually no bearing on my evaluation of the quality. On the other hand, most of the letterboxes I've found had stamps.

 

This cache type is about as antiquated as a disposable camera in a .50 cal ammo box, and almost never used as intended. Off with it's head.

Some people like antiques. How they are used is more important than how they were intended to be used, although only a couple of the ones I've found didn't clearly follow the intentions, and only a couple of others followed the intentions as a matter of form rather than to make a quality letterbox. In my opinion, the others were honest attempts to create a true letterbox, although never having done a non-geocache letterbox, I can't say how well they succeeded.

[+dprovan]

For a geocacher the fact that a cache is a LB hybrid should mean absolutely nothing to them outside the icon they get for finding one in their profile.

Well, in addition, those that don't think they should exist can filter them out by type.

[4wheelin_fool]

If they were always offset from the posted coordinates, then the unique stamp would be less likely to be taken or traded for. The cachers that do that are the same ones that think its like any ordinary cache. They also would be less likely to find it...

[JASTA 11]

 

You're misinterpreting the reason for LB hybrids. The original intent was to have geocaches that were also available to letterboxers. They are not intended to provide a letterboxing style experience for geocachers, they are simply both geocaches AND letterboxes.

 

For a geocacher the fact that a cache is a LB hybrid should mean absolutely nothing to them outside the icon they get for finding one in their profile.

 

If the icon is the only reason, then what's the sense? It's just another traditional.

 

Mixing the letterboxing tradition into geocaching is more appropriate to the term 'hybrid' than simply adding a stamp to a cache is.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I've only found 4 LBH, but overall, I felt that 3 of them were good enough to justify keeping as a separate cache type.

 

None of them were at the listed coordinates. All had instructions to get to the final.

 

1 was extremely well done. It started at an interesting sculpture and took you on a nice scenic walk.

 

2 of them had very simple instructions like 'walk 60 paces and look at base of tree'. I kind of felt they were missing the point of letterboxing, but good enough. 1 of the cache containers was a nice big ammo can.

 

Only 1 of them was clearly placed in a hurry, with little thought, just so local people would have more LBH to find to meet a local challenge. Of course, some cachers will place an abundance of lazy hides, just for the sake of numbers. Nothing new about that.

[+L0ne.R]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." ...

 

I'm sorry, this is the first I have ever heard of a theme for a letterbox being required. Some of us are just not that artistic to be able to make a stamp. I don't even know how to make one. My attempt at a LBH was first a stamp made from clay. That didn't work to well, so I just used a store bought stamp. I don't see anything wrong with that, could you enlighten me?

 

I think it should stay for those who want them, but I think we should be able to do it as a ? cache, or maybe even a field puzzle. I mean we have night caches that are "Go to the co-ords and follow the reflectors" That would just be a LBH available at night.

 

A letterbox hybrid is all about the stamp. It's the only thing that makes it different from all the other cache types. If no consideration is given to making the stamp the #1 reason for the cache type, what's the point.

 

The original intend of using a stamp in a letterbox was to use it as evidence that you found that particular box. You could show your logbook to someone as proof that you found for instance, Dragon's Lode letterbox:

 

 

The custom made stamp was not one you could buy from the dollar store or Target.

 

I'm guessing that 99% of geocachers who plant a letterbox have no idea about what a letterbox is and the history behind it, nor do they care and nor do they care about collecting the stamp image. As a letterboxer who collects unique letterbox images, I would be happier if Groundspeak would provide attributes - one for commercial stamp and one for handcarved/custom stamp and grandfather the cache LBH type. Then I could run a PQ for caches that use the handcarved/custom stamp.

 

I'm getting quite frustrated when I get a new LBH notice in my email to read that someone

• threw a generic stamp in "for the letterboxers"
• or put in a punch instead of a unique stamp
• or there's no stamp at all,
• or in the case of older LBHs the box originally contained a stamp 2 years ago but the stamp went missing and the CO never replaced it but maintained the LBH status.

Throwing a generic run-of-the-mill stamp in the box "for the letterboxers" is insulting to true letterbox fans. If that's what we want we can download a ton of stamp images off the web. It's about finding that one-of-a-kind stamp that defines that box. It's more about the arts & crafts aspect. The letterbox type borders on Art Box.

 

If you don't want to provide a unique stamp then why are you hiding a letterbox, why not hide a puzzle cache instead. What is the appeal? From my experience, the appeal both for the hider and the finder is the icon. If it's the directional clues, and not the unique stamp, hide a puzzle/mystery.

Edited June 27, 2013 by L0ne R

[Hosscatt]

I enjoy having so many different cache types. Its nice to have a change of pace every now and then and was actually kind of sad when I saw people couldn't make virtuals anymore. That being said I understand about not much effort being put in.

[+L0ne.R]

... To me, a letterbox hybrid is more than just a box with a stamp, regardless of how the current guidelines define them. When I think letterbox hybrid, I think of a box with a stamp, preferably handmade, which you locate by following directions on a cache page, such as, "Find the green sign at he posted coordinates. Walk 34' on a bearing of 126* magnetic, where you'll find a lone cypress. Follow the path which starts there roughly 633' southwest to a large stump beside the trail. Look behind the stump for an ammo can".

 

Same here. Many LBH's we've seen are just a cache right at the posted coordinates with a cheesy stamp thrown in. No 'offset' directions to follow.

 

No similarities to a true Letterbox hide.

 

 

I don't see anything in the OP's post that indicates this doesn't adhere to the guidelines for a LB hybrid. It has a stamp, that is all the guidelines want. The guidelines don't say it has to be a hand carved stamp that has something to do do with the LB theme.

 

A nice hand-carved stamp shows the pride and effort that was put into the hide. Since I'm not talented enough to make one myself, we had one made for our LBH hide.

 

Putting the stamp issue aside. To keep with the spirit and tradion of letterboxing, the guidelines should specify that the hide needs to be offset from the posted coordinates, and include clues (directions) on how to find the container.

 

You're misinterpreting the reason for LB hybrids. The original intent was to have geocaches that were also available to letterboxers. They are not intended to provide a letterboxing style experience for geocachers, they are simply both geocaches AND letterboxes.

 

For a geocacher the fact that a cache is a LB hybrid should mean absolutely nothing to them outside the icon they get for finding one in their profile.

 

I'm not sure that that was the original intent. Way back (I'll have to look it up), Jeremy offered up the GC site to the Letterboxing yahoo group to use for letterboxes. That raised the ire and distrust of the letterboxing members so it didn't happen, but Jeremy introduced Letterbox Hybrids to the GC site shortly after. Originally, if I recall correctly, back when I posted my first back in early 2002, the GPS requirement was rather relaxed. If LB group had taken Jeremy up on his offer then it would have been interesting to see if a GPS for letterbox postings would have been required.

 

So, I don't think that the original intent of the LBH cache type was to make it both a letterbox AND a geocache, but more a place where letterboxers could post their letterboxes because the LB yahoo group did not have a site.

Edited June 27, 2013 by L0ne R

[team tisri]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." The cache title is "The Cache is in the Mail". The next most recent LBH posting in my area had a hole punch in the box, not a stamp. The hole punch didn't match the theme either.

 

I know this is going to fall on GS deaf ears and nothing will be done but the LBH experiment is a frustrating fail. Plus it's confusing since the LBH type can be a traditional, multi, or puzzle type. It's a cache type made up of various cache types. I say grandfather the letterbox hybrid cache type and anyone who plants a cache with a stamp in it can continue to do so if it floats their boat but make it either a traditional, multi or puzzle/mystery.

If that particular letterbox hydbrid doesn't adhere to the rules, why can't you just ask for it to be archived, instead of ruining the fun for people who enjoy letterboxes not only in your town but all across the world. The solution doesn't fit the problem at all.

 

What is it about letterboxes you enjoy and why couldn't a cache with a stamp that's listed as a puzzle or traditional still be enjoyed just as much? From my 10 year perspective on LBHs what people enjoy is the icon.

 

If you hate letterboxes so much just ignore anything with an icon that looks like a letter. Problem solved.

[+L0ne.R]

Yet another Letterbox Hybrid is posted in my area where the cache owner apparently planted one to get the LBH icon in their repository of hides (They have Traditional, Multi (1), Event, Earth (1), and Unknown (11) and now LB(1)). They didn't even use directions to the LBH. The stamp has nothing to do with the theme of the cache "There is a "Toy Story" stamp and pad for the letterbox enthusiasts." The cache title is "The Cache is in the Mail". The next most recent LBH posting in my area had a hole punch in the box, not a stamp. The hole punch didn't match the theme either.

 

I know this is going to fall on GS deaf ears and nothing will be done but the LBH experiment is a frustrating fail. Plus it's confusing since the LBH type can be a traditional, multi, or puzzle type. It's a cache type made up of various cache types. I say grandfather the letterbox hybrid cache type and anyone who plants a cache with a stamp in it can continue to do so if it floats their boat but make it either a traditional, multi or puzzle/mystery.

If that particular letterbox hydbrid doesn't adhere to the rules, why can't you just ask for it to be archived, instead of ruining the fun for people who enjoy letterboxes not only in your town but all across the world. The solution doesn't fit the problem at all.

 

What is it about letterboxes you enjoy and why couldn't a cache with a stamp that's listed as a puzzle or traditional still be enjoyed just as much? From my 10 year perspective on LBHs what people enjoy is the icon.

 

If you hate letterboxes so much just ignore anything with an icon that looks like a letter. Problem solved.

 

I love letterboxes.....real letterboxes, where the focus is on the stamp. The traditional directional clues are nice too, if done accurately. But these are already covered by the Puzzle/Mystery cache type so there's no need for a LBH cache type for caches whose primary reason for being is the directional clues. Perhaps if the cache type were archived those who truly enjoy letterboxes will still create them, post them as puzzles types (or multi or traditional) and hunt for them because they love collecting unique letterbox stamps not because they love collecting icons for themselves or for Challenge caches.

 

Also if the cache type were grandfathered I bet it would make life easier for reviewers.

 

I like Clan Riffsters idea about changing the definition but I doubt GS would ever get around to it, but maybe, just maybe they'd take the easier solution and grandfather the LBH type. I think we would have far fewer caches where someone throws the kids' discard into a box and calls it a 'Letterbox'.

Edited June 27, 2013 by L0ne R

[+J the Goat]

I have one LBH on my hide list, it's gotten pretty positive feedback. It's not often visited though, as that's the kind of cache I like to find...

 

I used a store bought stamp. I too have no idea how to make one, nor do I have the time or the tools to do one right anyway. I do give directions though, the cords are offset by a little bit more than a quarter of a mile.

 

My question to the OP is: What does it matter? There are much more pressing issues (my opinion) than cutting out a single cache type strictly because you feel it's not being done the right way. I didn't see any arguments in this thread that justify eliminating a cache type entirely. Permission issues, power trails, permission issues, and permission issues all need to be addressed much quicker than cache type preferences.

 

Although if we're voting for cache type elimination, puzzle caches get mine...

[+funkymunkyzone]

Just another case of "I don't like [fill in the blank] so it should be gone for everyone".

 

Whoever decided that letterboxes must have custom made stamps better go around telling all the letterbox listing sites, so they can remove the "store bought stamp" attribute!

 

Be thankful that others go to the effort of placing caches for you to find, including LBHs, and stop acting so entitled.

[+cerberus1]

I like the LBHs and bring my stamp, pad and ink along, but a couple we've done never had a stamp in them (I asked the FTFers).

I think the required stamp should be there our risk having the hide archived.

- I mention it in my log, but guess that'd be a NM.

 

Groundspeak confuses the issue by having, "The container for a Letterbox Hybrid must include a stamp" in their additional Listing Guidelines, but, in their Getting Started, under Geocaching Types they say, "If there is a stamp inside a Letterbox Hybrid, it is not an item intended for trade.."

- When a stamp is required to make it a LBH, what's up with if?

It should read, "The stamp inside a Letterbox Hybrid is not an item intended ...".

 

Most we've done had an offset from the posted coordinates to find the hide.

The cache type is Letterbox Hybrid. The name alone says it's not the same, played by formal rules of another outdoor hobby similar to caching.

I don't recall reading anything that said stamps had to be handmade, custom, or in line with the cache name or location.

I simply see some attempting to push that idea on others.

I'd like to see LBHs remain, thanks.

[AZcachemeister]

I have never seen a LBH listing that had directions to follow to the cache. All the ones I've found are no different than a traditional, with a rubber stamp in them.

 

You are missing out on a whole lot of fun, then.

[AZcachemeister]

Hmmm...

Well, I always thought that the LBH type was created to pay homage to the much older game.

That said, only one or two of the ones I have found actually had walking directions.

Now that I think about it, it really is cheap and dirty homage if that was the intent.

 

If all I had to do was CLAIM I tossed a store-bought stamp in the cache, I guess I have been missing out on another possible hidden/owned cache type to brag about.

[+St.Matthew]

I have never seen a LBH listing that had directions to follow to the cache. All the ones I've found are no different than a traditional, with a rubber stamp in them.

 

You are missing out. I recently visited Florida, and the description had me all over a nature preserve / park. I had a blast. I wish there were more caches like it in the world.

[+funkymunkyzone]

If all I had to do was CLAIM I tossed a store-bought stamp in the cache, I guess I have been missing out on another possible hidden/owned cache type to brag about.

 

All you have to do is CLAIM you put a cache out at all, if that's your bag.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I have one LBH on my hide list, it's gotten pretty positive feedback. It's not often visited though, as that's the kind of cache I like to find...

 

I used a store bought stamp. I too have no idea how to make one, nor do I have the time or the tools to do one right anyway. I do give directions though, the cords are offset by a little bit more than a quarter of a mile.

 

Oddly, my Letterbox Hybrid is my second most found cache (after my Webcam Cache). (Not sure what that says... Popular tourist area with an unusual icon?) My stamp is hand-carved. Not great, but the best I can do, and in keeping with the theme of the cache. (I've only had to replace it three times in 6 years...)

There are six more within 15 miles. but the tourists are not going fifteen miles off to seek another.

382 finds in six years ain't bad.

[AZcachemeister]

If all I had to do was CLAIM I tossed a store-bought stamp in the cache, I guess I have been missing out on another possible hidden/owned cache type to brag about.

 

All you have to do is CLAIM you put a cache out at all, if that's your bag.

 

Well, it isn't my bag, is it yours?

[+funkymunkyzone]

If all I had to do was CLAIM I tossed a store-bought stamp in the cache, I guess I have been missing out on another possible hidden/owned cache type to brag about.

 

All you have to do is CLAIM you put a cache out at all, if that's your bag.

 

Well, it isn't my bag, is it yours?

 

No, but then I wasn't the one who brought up the idea of just CLAIMING to do things, as if that's what LBH cache owners do...

[+briansnat]

 

You're misinterpreting the reason for LB hybrids. The original intent was to have geocaches that were also available to letterboxers. They are not intended to provide a letterboxing style experience for geocachers, they are simply both geocaches AND letterboxes.

 

For a geocacher the fact that a cache is a LB hybrid should mean absolutely nothing to them outside the icon they get for finding one in their profile.

 

If the icon is the only reason, then what's the sense? It's just another traditional.

 

Mixing the letterboxing tradition into geocaching is more appropriate to the term 'hybrid' than simply adding a stamp to a cache is.

 

The sense is that it's a geocache that is also available to letterboxers. The idea was never to import the LB tradition into geocaching. It is my understanding (from the old Internet rumor mill) that when Jeremy started this site he offered to fold the LBNA site into geocaching.com and was rebuffed by the LB community. It's my guess he created the hybrid to make geocaches that LBers could also enjoy,in hopes of drawing LBers to the site. For geocachers it is indeed just another traditional, or puzzle, or multi except for the icon.

[AZcachemeister]

If all I had to do was CLAIM I tossed a store-bought stamp in the cache, I guess I have been missing out on another possible hidden/owned cache type to brag about.

 

All you have to do is CLAIM you put a cache out at all, if that's your bag.

 

Well, it isn't my bag, is it yours?

 

No, but then I wasn't the one who brought up the idea of just CLAIMING to do things, as if that's what LBH cache owners do...

 

The point being that saying a stamp was in the cache when you placed it is now the only criteria for being accepted as a LBH.

 

Nobody is verifying the stamp was ever there.

 

And if the stamp gets traded out?

Oh, Well!

 

I wouldn't do that, but anyone who wanted to have an owned LBH certainly could.

[+funkymunkyzone]

It's my guess he created the hybrid to make geocaches that LBers could also enjoy,in hopes of drawing LBers to the site. For geocachers it is indeed just another traditional, or puzzle, or multi except for the icon.

 

I agree with your guess. I always saw Letterbox Hybrids as more of a type of letterbox than a type of cache - to a letterboxer they stand out as a subtype of letterbox that is found using a GPS (and possibly clues as well), whereas to a geocacher they are just another trad, puzzle or multi. Perhaps that lends weight to the argument that letterbox should be an attribute rather than cache type, but hey, what's done is done, and they certainly stand out as more obvious by having a different icon on the map.

[+L0ne.R]

Just another case of "I don't like [fill in the blank] so it should be gone for everyone".

 

Whoever decided that letterboxes must have custom made stamps better go around telling all the letterbox listing sites, so they can remove the "store bought stamp" attribute!

 

Be thankful that others go to the effort of placing caches for you to find, including LBHs, and stop acting so entitled.

 

Are you saying you hunt letterbox hybrids for the store bought stamp image? And you have a personal letterboxing logbook that you use to collect these LBH stamps?

 

Do you care that there's a stamp in the box?

 

Or do you hunt them because they are a cache. And you treat them like a regular cache, i.e. the stamp being in the cache makes no difference to you? Would you still hunt them if they were listed as a puzzle or traditional or multi? If you would, then why would it bother you if the LBH type was grandfathered? The cache would still exist, it just wouldn't have the LBH icon. What's the big deal about keeping a cache type where 95% of finders aren't into the stamp. And of the other 5% maybe 1% collects the stamp images.

Edited June 28, 2013 by L0ne R

[+Kacher82]

I have never seen a LBH listing that had directions to follow to the cache. All the ones I've found are no different than a traditional, with a rubber stamp in them.

 

You are missing out on a whole lot of fun, then.

Yeah, it sounds like it could be fun. I might need to take a closer look at some of the LBH listings in the area that I haven't found.

[+funkymunkyzone]

Just another case of "I don't like [fill in the blank] so it should be gone for everyone".

 

Whoever decided that letterboxes must have custom made stamps better go around telling all the letterbox listing sites, so they can remove the "store bought stamp" attribute!

 

Be thankful that others go to the effort of placing caches for you to find, including LBHs, and stop acting so entitled.

 

Are you saying you hunt letterbox hybrids for the store bought stamp image? And you have a personal letterboxing logbook that you use to collect these LBH stamps?

 

Do you care that there's a stamp in the box?

 

Or do you hunt them because they are a cache. And you treat them like a regular cache, i.e. the stamp being in the cache makes no difference to you? Would you still hunt them if they were listed as a puzzle or traditional or multi? If you would, then why would it bother you if the LBH type was grandfathered? The cache would still exist, it just wouldn't have the LBH icon. What's the big deal about keeping a cache type where 95% of finders aren't into the stamp. And of the other 5% maybe 1% collects the stamp images.

 

I think you just reinforced my point, so thank you.

 

Some people are interested in finding them for the stamp (store bought or hand-crafted, both are acceptable in letterboxing) and you want to put an end to their fun even though it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

[4wheelin_fool]

I have one LBH on my hide list, it's gotten pretty positive feedback. It's not often visited though, as that's the kind of cache I like to find...

 

I used a store bought stamp. I too have no idea how to make one, nor do I have the time or the tools to do one right anyway. I do give directions though, the cords are offset by a little bit more than a quarter of a mile.

 

Oddly, my Letterbox Hybrid is my second most found cache (after my Webcam Cache). (Not sure what that says... Popular tourist area with an unusual icon?) My stamp is hand-carved. Not great, but the best I can do, and in keeping with the theme of the cache. (I've only had to replace it three times in 6 years...)

There are six more within 15 miles. but the tourists are not going fifteen miles off to seek another.

382 finds in six years ain't bad.

 

I got a kick out of that hand carved stamp and thought it was pretty cool. Laura didn't read the directions and I had signed in and rehid it, right before she found it.

[+tozainamboku]

Being an iconoclast, anything that gets rid of icons is good.

 

The letterbox hybrid type was created at a time long before attributes. The problem was that people were listing boxes both as letterboxes and geocaches. While the geocache was often a mystery type that had some component resembling the clues for the letterbox, the main issue was that many geocachers were unaware of the purpose of the stamp in the letterbox and would take this stamp as a trade item. The idea of making these caches a separate type was to make geocachers aware that the these containers were being used in another game and to respect the pieces that were used in this other game.

 

Personally I keep wanting to trade for the piece of paper with a QR code that I often find in caches nowadays. I suppose that a new icon for caches which have QR codes would put a stop to people taking the codes. Don't think this is likely to happen.

[Keystone]

Toz's understanding of the history matches mine -- which is based on personal conversations as well as old forum posts.

 

If attributes had been around 12 years ago, "Has a letterbox stamp" would have been an attribute. Since attributes didn't exist, making a new cache type was the best available solution at the time.

 

Any physical cache container that has a letterboxing stamp can be listed as a letterbox hybrid cache. The biggest issue I see when reviewing LBH submissions are designs that have no meaningful GPS use. There's no meaningful GPS use if you post coords for the parking lot and then say "Go to the parking lot and go down the trail until you see a big lone pine tree." Once the owner says "there's a stamp" in the cache description or in a private reviewer note, my inquiry is over on that issue. If he says it's a stamp but it's actually a hole punch, there's no way for me to know that.