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Religious Material in Description Page


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So I am not sure what I should do. This weekend I came across several geocaches that directly quote religious material. Since I know everyone is going to flock to my profile and look through my recent finds, I will post a link here.

 

According to the guidelines: Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable.

 

Q1: Does quoting religious texts violate the GC guidelines?

 

Q2: Should this receive a NA log?

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I'd be tempted to leave a found log quoting from the doctrine of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Or maybe a quote from Robert Ingersoll about the bible.

But then again, maybe reporting it to a Reviewer would suffice. I wonder if they changed the description after publication.

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When the location of the geocache relates to a church or, in this case, an idol factory I feel quoting scripture is appropriate. It is not going to promote a particular religion if a single quote is included.

Several of the geocaches I found mention scripture in some form, some even make them a waypoint and none of them have had a call for archival because of that. That doesn't mean it should be allowed, but it does show a general concensus among the community.

 

That said, I feel the guideline is vague, similar to the one that prohibits commercial caches. To some extend every geocache is placed with an agenda, to bring someone to an interesting place and teach the finder about the location. But it tends to be harder to make the distinction if other agendas are at work. I would class such quotes under the header educational and move on without any sort of maintenance or archival request.

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This cache has been available since 2011 and you're concerned about it? No one else seems too worried about what the text has to say. Personally, I didn't find anything wrong with any of it. I saw it as a clever way to describe the disappearance of a piece of American history. I didn't consider it as pushing a religious agenda. I think you are being a bit too analytical about the whole thing.

 

If you're not comfortable with the cache, then pass on it and put it on your ignore list. Problem solved.

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That cache is just one of the more recent ones I have encountered. I came across one that was at the base of a cross in front of a Christian book store with this quote in the description "We appropriately make this a get on your knees cache." To me, this is definitely pushing an agenda "You must bow before Jesus".

 

And the only reason why I am making references to Christian based caches, is because that is all I have encountered. If I found one that quoted the Torah or the Koran I would be raising the same questions.

 

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The CO must have thought it would be a problem .... why else mask the scripture reference?

I'll be the first to object to a cache that has a religious agenda, but I think in this case the quote is nothing but a literary reference, rather tongue-in-cheek, and not particularly religious in nature. The "idol factory" referred to in the quote has nothing to do with any religion, with the possible exception of Hollywood idol worship: the cache is at a drive-in movie theater. :lol:

 

Just because a quote comes from a religious text doesn't mean it's promoting a particular religion, or even religion in general.

 

--Larry

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Just because a quote comes from a religious text doesn't mean it's promoting a particular religion, or even religion in general.

 

--Larry

 

Quoting some scripture is not the same as ranting about how great your religion is and how badly the others suck.

 

I've found caches based on bible verses, Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology (extinct religions!).

The puzzle that required me to look up several bible verses made me the most uncomfortable, but I never thought there was any attempt to 'convert' me.

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I just clicked on the site. I think you are a little sensitive. If you would get down off your PC horse you would realize this cache has nothing to do with religion.

 

It is satire, comparing people's idol worship of Movie stars with biblical idols, while lamenting the loss of an American tradition.

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One simple quote from the Koran/Torah/Bible does not make an agenda.

Telling you to follow that scripture or be dammed for life would be an agenda.

 

Using a relevant religious citation as the hint won't make an agenda.

But it might annoy most of us who would have to look it up online if we needed the hint.

 

Now can I go back to enjoying my sweet potato biscuits?

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I don't get it. Are people so worried about expunging God out of their lives they run around looking for even the tiniest hint of Him?

 

Should I take offence every time a cache page says something about the earth being millions or billions of yearsold when in fact its only six thousand years old? After all, by saying those things you are pushing atheism and darwinism. Maybe I should do NA's on the majority of earthcahes.

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That cache is just one of the more recent ones I have encountered. I came across one that was at the base of a cross in front of a Christian book store with this quote in the description "We appropriately make this a get on your knees cache." To me, this is definitely pushing an agenda "You must bow before Jesus".

In my opinion that would be pushing an agenda exactly for the reason you mention, but if that comment was removed from the description, I see no problem to let the cache itself stand.

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The CO must have thought it would be a problem .... why else mask the scripture reference?

I'll be the first to object to a cache that has a religious agenda, but I think in this case the quote is nothing but a literary reference, rather tongue-in-cheek, and not particularly religious in nature. The "idol factory" referred to in the quote has nothing to do with any religion, with the possible exception of Hollywood idol worship: the cache is at a drive-in movie theater. :lol:

 

Just because a quote comes from a religious text doesn't mean it's promoting a particular religion, or even religion in general.

 

--Larry

 

I agree ... I find nothing at all wrong with the cache, and don't think it's an agenda at all .... just wondering why the Co didn't quote the reference correctly.

Edited by BC & MsKitty
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So I am not sure what I should do. This weekend I came across several geocaches that directly quote religious material. Since I know everyone is going to flock to my profile and look through my recent finds, I will post a link here.

 

Q1: Does quoting religious texts violate the GC guidelines?

 

Q2: Should this receive a NA log?

 

I don't think simply quoting a Bible verse (perhaps depending on the quote) on a cache page is a Guidelines violation. The quote used here seems okay, especially since it works thematically.

 

I'm curious about the "idols" in question. Google Maps shows a drive-in movie theater at the location so I'm not sure if the CO is trying to make a clever reference ("movie idols", etc) or actually criticizing cinema as promoting idolatry - although it seems more like the former.

 

So if someone found a quote from "Mien Kampuf" that kind of related to the cache, that would be ok too?

 

I would say it would depend on the quote.

 

A quick Google search tells me that "Reading is not an end to itself, but a means to an end." is a quote from Mein Kampf. Would that quote be objectionable on a cache page?

 

The CO must have thought it would be a problem .... why else mask the scripture reference?

 

I have seen lots of caches that allude to a business where the cache is located: Off Your Rocker, Where Caching Is A Pleasure (Publix grocery here in FL), Golden Arches, Arch Enemy (BK), Cache Depot, Off Target, Blue Light Special, Wally World, etc. Those all seem to be acceptable ways to avoid violating the commercial guidelines. The CO may have felt a Bible quote could better avoid the agenda guideline by not mentioning the full name.

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The CO may have felt a Bible quote could better avoid the agenda guideline by not mentioning the full name.

It might also be that the abbreviation is commonly used for that particular book of the Bible.

 

From the Chicago Manual of Style: Abbreviations for books of the Bible

 

It still seems as if some folks are working way too hard looking for an agenda to criticize.

 

--Larry

Edited by larryc43230
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I just clicked on the site. I think you are a little sensitive. If you would get down off your PC horse you would realize this cache has nothing to do with religion.

 

It is satire, comparing people's idol worship of Movie stars with biblical idols, while lamenting the loss of an American tradition.

 

If it's social satire then I would definitely join in the fun with something Flying Spaghetti Monster-ish. Maybe... Praise be to The Sauced And Noodly One, and may your cheese never be from a green cardboard can. R'amen.

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The CO must have thought it would be a problem .... why else mask the scripture reference?

I'll be the first to object to a cache that has a religious agenda, but I think in this case the quote is nothing but a literary reference, rather tongue-in-cheek, and not particularly religious in nature. The "idol factory" referred to in the quote has nothing to do with any religion, with the possible exception of Hollywood idol worship: the cache is at a drive-in movie theater. :lol:

 

Just because a quote comes from a religious text doesn't mean it's promoting a particular religion, or even religion in general.

 

--Larry

 

From the point of a atheist such as myself even I wouldn't object to how this one is done. I agree with the above.

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The CO must have thought it would be a problem .... why else mask the scripture reference?

I'll be the first to object to a cache that has a religious agenda, but I think in this case the quote is nothing but a literary reference, rather tongue-in-cheek, and not particularly religious in nature. The "idol factory" referred to in the quote has nothing to do with any religion, with the possible exception of Hollywood idol worship: the cache is at a drive-in movie theater. :lol:

 

Just because a quote comes from a religious text doesn't mean it's promoting a particular religion, or even religion in general.

 

--Larry

 

From the point of a atheist such as myself even I wouldn't object to how this one is done. I agree with the above.

 

I will agree. Religious texts are searchable listings on the Internet. As are movie titles. Or I ran across one today, where the hint is: Gavin Rossdale is the lead singer of what rock group? I've searched a number of religious texts. Doesn't bother me. I've never seen it as proselytizing. In the case cited, there was none. It was a cute use of a religious text.

Note: I would prefer that obscure references not be listed in hints. I do not see them until I'm at GZ.

But the one cited? Simple. Explained on the page. Nothing offensive about it.

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Does everyone realize that the "idol factory" being referenced is a "Hollywood Matinee Idol Factory"...i.e. a Drive in Theater?

 

Anyone with access to Google Maps would know. By reading the cache page I suspected it before I confirmed it using Google Earth. His reference to staring at the 'STARS' with his girlfriend, high muggle traffic on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.......

 

I'll be coming through this area in the next week or so, I may have to check this cache out....

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Does everyone realize that the "idol factory" being referenced is a "Hollywood Matinee Idol Factory"...i.e. a Drive in Theater?

 

Anyone with access to Google Maps would know. By reading the cache page I suspected it before I confirmed it using Google Earth. His reference to staring at the 'STARS' with his girlfriend, high muggle traffic on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.......

 

I'll be coming through this area in the next week or so, I may have to check this cache out....

 

After Midwest Geobash, I'm going from that to Dayton, so I'll be driving right by it. I'm not much of a park-n-grab at a drive-in kind of guy though. Especially since it sounds like it was placed without permission, but the owner just tolerates it.

 

The whole idol thing is quite a stretch, but I suppose I don't have a problem with it. What I do have a problem with is when people type a short description, and then repeat it in the first line of their long description. That's why the idol quote is listed twice. :)

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I see the OP wasn't so outraged by the content that it kept them from logging a find! Way to stand by your convictions!

 

If you find a cache that violates the Guidelines then you still found the cache and a Found log seems perfectly reasonable.

 

In the case of a description like this, the CO may not have read the cache page until they were already at GZ.

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So with my last post I was trying to be diplomatic by thanking all of those while had logical arguments to support position. I guess I should also said "you're welcome" to everyone else for giving them a cross to crawl up on.

 

I posed a question looking for reasonable, logical responses, not to attack anyone's religious beliefs.

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I don't get it. Are people so worried about expunging God out of their lives they run around looking for even the tiniest hint of Him?

 

Should I take offence every time a cache page says something about the earth being millions or billions of yearsold when in fact its only six thousand years old? After all, by saying those things you are pushing atheism and darwinism. Maybe I should do NA's on the majority of earthcahes.

Just a few problems with the comments. First, millions of Christians do not subscribe to the "young earth" view, so a comment about the earth being millions of years old does not "push atheism." Secondly, since the earth is "in fact only six thousand years old," please summarize the proof below. Please don't ask us to rely on faith, summarize the proof.

 

Off topic? We'll make an exception just for you. This is important - let's hear the proof.

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I don't get it. Are people so worried about expunging God out of their lives they run around looking for even the tiniest hint of Him?

 

Should I take offence every time a cache page says something about the earth being millions or billions of yearsold when in fact its only six thousand years old? After all, by saying those things you are pushing atheism and darwinism. Maybe I should do NA's on the majority of earthcahes.

Just a few problems with the comments. First, millions of Christians do not subscribe to the "young earth" view, so a comment about the earth being millions of years old does not "push atheism." Secondly, since the earth is "in fact only six thousand years old," please summarize the proof below. Please don't ask us to rely on faith, summarize the proof.

 

Off topic? We'll make an exception just for you. This is important - let's hear the proof.

 

That all seems a little unnecessary doesn't it? How about we just grow up and move on.

 

I highly doubt very many people with "young earth" beliefs is actually offended by the existence of earthcaches, and I highly doubt very many people in general of any religion are actually offended by the odd well placed and non-preachy bible quote, or quote from any other religious text, within the reasonable bounds of the "no agenda" guideline.

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I don't get it. Are people so worried about expunging God out of their lives they run around looking for even the tiniest hint of Him?

 

Should I take offence every time a cache page says something about the earth being millions or billions of yearsold when in fact its only six thousand years old? After all, by saying those things you are pushing atheism and darwinism. Maybe I should do NA's on the majority of earthcahes.

Just a few problems with the comments. First, millions of Christians do not subscribe to the "young earth" view, so a comment about the earth being millions of years old does not "push atheism." Secondly, since the earth is "in fact only six thousand years old," please summarize the proof below. Please don't ask us to rely on faith, summarize the proof.

 

Off topic? We'll make an exception just for you. This is important - let's hear the proof.

 

That all seems a little unnecessary doesn't it? How about we just grow up and move on.

 

 

Amen. Wait...I mean, I agree. Let's stick to geocaching and not try to start a holy war.

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I came across one that was at the base of a cross in front of a Christian book store with this quote in the description "We appropriately make this a get on your knees cache." To me, this is definitely pushing an agenda "You must bow before Jesus".

 

You've got to be kidding me. What, is there a statue of Jesus right at GZ and someone standing by to recruit you?

Surely, this is not an agenda, just a bit of harmless humor. I looked at the link you posted and I found nothing offensive about it. Surely people can mention their religion without you wetting your pants thinking they're trying to recruit you? :blink:

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Just a few problems with the comments. First, millions of Christians do not subscribe to the "young earth" view, so a comment about the earth being millions of years old does not "push atheism." Secondly, since the earth is "in fact only six thousand years old," please summarize the proof below. Please don't ask us to rely on faith, summarize the proof.

 

Off topic? We'll make an exception just for you. This is important - let's hear the proof.

There is more evidence for "young earth" than there is for any millions or billions theories.

 

First, all of the "millions" people just blindly accept carbon dating, which is severely flawed and based on circular logic (i.e. we think this is X years old, so when we compare this, we get similar readings, so therefore this has to be X years old, even though the first X years old has no basis or proof).

 

Second, when you look at the fossil record, it is full of "anomalies" that atheist science just expects us to ignore, they even admit they are unexplained anomalies while saying since they are unexplained that we should ignore. All of these anomalies are easily explained by a major flood 4000 years ago.

 

Third, and this is directed to you since you have the word "pastor" in your name, you either accept the bible as a whole or you reject it as a whole, you don't get to pick and choose what you agree and disagree with, to do so is to reject the entire bible (and at this point the majority of people do accept it for its historic value, but twisting things like claiming Jesus was a prophet instead of who he really is).

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This thread should have wound down after post #29. Since then, it's devolved into the land of off-topic. I'm closing this thread but a new thread about religion and political correctness would be on-topic in the Off Topic forum, should anyone wish to continue discussions along those lines.

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