Never, Ever Search For A Catch On Federal Property

[+richardgaspa]

Well I have good news and some bad news. The good news is I found the cache. The bad news is I spent twenty minuets in the back seat of a VA Police car trying to explain to this federal police officer what Geocatching is.

 

More good news .... I am home now logging both these two catches that I found but was warned to stay away from the fence line. The officer said he could issue me a citation but did not due to being a disabled veteran. Morro of the story is ..... Don't look for treasures on Federal property.

 

The caches I found located on Federal property were:

Vets Defence GC3G1EM

Vets Deserve The Best GC10XWR

 

Who ever owns these hides better move them when he or she gets the chance.

Edited June 22, 2013 by richardgaspa

[nonaeroterraqueous]

 

A moderator might help this thread dance on over to the appropriate forum.

Edited June 22, 2013 by nonaeroterraqueous

[+WRASTRO]

Yep, this isn't an off topic topic.

 

On topic...

 

If the cache is indeed on restricted property it should be archived. If the police allowed the cacher to leave and the cache remained in place I have to assume the cache placement is ok.

[+The Cheeseheads]

Moving this thread to the correct forum.

 

Be sure to email your local reviewer directly about this issue in case the cache owner doesn't respond right away.

[+cheech gang]

Just FYI, the second cache has the incorrect GC number, should be GC3AZNP

[+cerberus1]

This is a good reason why I read logs.

Logs of the police showing up and permission issues would've said don't go to either one.

[+cheech gang]

Both of the caches in question have logs relating to more than a couple of run-ins with security. Yes, I am hundreds of miles away but I think I can evaluate the irresponsible inaction of the owner from here.

[Pup Patrol]

Logs dating back to last year document the problems. Why don't people log "Needs Archived" when there are issues like this?

 

Why didn't you pay attention to the log before yours, the "Needs Archived" log?

 

It pays to read previous logs, eh?

 

 

B.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Pup Patrol

[+edscott]

Agree with the concept in this particular case but making a blanket statement regarding Federal property is a bit extreme. I own 4 caches on Federal property that were put there at their request. The issue is adequate permission which should apply to all property.

[+ngrrfan]

Agree with the concept in this particular case but making a blanket statement regarding Federal property is a bit extreme.

I also have many caches hidden on federal property/land. Anyone with a cache in a National Forest has one on federal land.

[+geodarts]

Logs dating back to last year document the problems. Why don't people log "Needs Archived" when there are issues like this?

 

Why didn't you pay attention to the log before yours, the "Needs Archived" log?

 

It pays to read previous logs, eh?

 

It does pay up read previous logs, although I often don't until its too late. Still, even the CO documented the problem last year:

 

03/15/2012

Due to the amount of DNFs I am disabling this listing until I can take a look to see if it is there. Before I got to ground zero today I was asked to leave so I will try again this week-end to see what is up.

So sorry.

 

So the cache was enabled and the next log after that noted the number of VA police around. It is not surprising that someone had to sit in a car for 20 minutes.

[+Kacher82]

03/15/2012

Due to the amount of DNFs I am disabling this listing until I can take a look to see if it is there. Before I got to ground zero today I was asked to leave so I will try again this week-end to see what is up.

So sorry.

 

So the cache was enabled and the next log after that noted the number of VA police around. It is not surprising that someone had to sit in a car for 20 minutes.

The cache should have been archived based on that statement alone. If the CO is asked to leave while going to his cache, the cache has no business there.

[+Kacher82]

Good news. The CO has disabled both caches until he can go talk to the people there.

[+cheech gang]

[

03/15/2012

Due to the amount of DNFs I am disabling this listing until I can take a look to see if it is there. Before I got to ground zero today I was asked to leave so I will try again this week-end to see what is up.

So sorry.

 

Holy Carp, I must have skimmed over that one. So the owner was chased away and still thought it was an appropriate spot for a cache. I said something slightly derogatory about the CO earlier. Now I would like to say what I really think, but I fear an impending knuckle-rapping from the business end of the Keystone ruler.

[Mr.Yuck]

Here's an interesting, and little known factoid from a domain name owner of a Geocaching related website, with a Google Webmaster tools account. About 700 people have searched Google for the word "Geocatching" in the last 30 days. Sorry, couldn't resist, richardgaspa.

 

As others have said, I would have read the logs, and stayed away from this thing. But I don't think too many of us out in the community do that, and I don't blame the OP, or anyone else who went after those two caches. Great to see the owner was responsive, and did the right thing!

 

You're not alone, richardgaspa. In January, 2004, although I didn't get a seat in the back of a squad car, I was detained for the same amount of time (about 20 minutes) by 4 or 5 squad cars by the Clark, New Jersey PD. Rather embarrassing, isn't it?

[+Don_J]

[

03/15/2012

Due to the amount of DNFs I am disabling this listing until I can take a look to see if it is there. Before I got to ground zero today I was asked to leave so I will try again this week-end to see what is up.

So sorry.

 

Holy Carp, I must have skimmed over that one. So the owner was chased away and still thought it was an appropriate spot for a cache. I said something slightly derogatory about the CO earlier. Now I would like to say what I really think, but I fear an impending knuckle-rapping from the business end of the Keystone ruler.

 

It really make me wonder why not one cacher would post a NA log??? If I'm told by anyone of authority that I don't belong there, then I'm posting a NA. If I was following a cache and saw a note from the owner such as above, I'd email my reviewer privately and give him a heads up.

[+richardgaspa]

Moving this thread to the correct forum.

 

Be sure to email your local reviewer directly about this issue in case the cache owner doesn't respond right away.

 

I emailed the reviewer and emailed the CO of the hide. . I am fairly new here to the sport and did not know who else to tell about the incident. Sorry about posting in the wrong thread.

[4wheelin_fool]

[

03/15/2012

Due to the amount of DNFs I am disabling this listing until I can take a look to see if it is there. Before I got to ground zero today I was asked to leave so I will try again this week-end to see what is up.

So sorry.

 

Holy Carp, I must have skimmed over that one. So the owner was chased away and still thought it was an appropriate spot for a cache. I said something slightly derogatory about the CO earlier. Now I would like to say what I really think, but I fear an impending knuckle-rapping from the business end of the Keystone ruler.

 

It really make me wonder why not one cacher would post a NA log??? If I'm told by anyone of authority that I don't belong there, then I'm posting a NA. If I was following a cache and saw a note from the owner such as above, I'd email my reviewer privately and give him a heads up.

 

The entire episode seems strange to me. The police are harassing people in the parking lot, who haven't even left their vehicle. The second cache placed by the fence seems to taunt the officers in the description. The local reviewer doesn't notice any of this, but posts a note inquiring about the length of time it was disabled.

 

VA area needed another cache since the security guards really take there jobs seriously.

Edited June 24, 2013 by 4wheelin_fool

[+hofy67]

Yes it is always best to read through the logs if possible for clues as to what you might expect at a cache.

 

Also, Uncle Sam is pretty good at posting signs that you are approaching an area where you do not belong.

This is one (of several) that we ran across this weekend.

 

[+Ike 13]

How can people who are stopped by VA police not log a NA. These lasted a lot longer than they should have.

[+funkymunkyzone]

The bad news is I spent twenty minuets in the back seat of a VA Police car trying to explain to this federal police officer what Geocatching is.

On an unrelated note - when an innocent spelling mistake seriously alters the meaning.... I can't imagine what it must be like to be forced to dance 2 minuets with a policeman in the back of his car!

Edited July 8, 2013 by funkymunkyzone

[+MountainWoods]

I promise that I will never search for a "catch" on federal property. I'm not really into fishing anyway, so that wasn't hard!

[+OZ2CPU]

if a cache is enabled, no red flag, no NA logs, I go for it

all caches are pr definition placed with permission, so I dont need to read logs or descriptions.

and that I will carefully explain to the police if I ever get into any problems.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

How can people who are stopped by VA police not log a NA. These lasted a lot longer than they should have.

 

Nobody wants to be the "bad guy". Just drop the local reviewer an email, and let them deal with it.

[GrandPotentate]

if a cache is enabled, no red flag, no NA logs, I go for it

all caches are pr definition placed with permission, so I dont need to read logs or descriptions.

and that I will carefully explain to the police if I ever get into any problems.

 

And I would be really upset if that happened to me and then later I found that it happened many times to previous cachers and NO ONE ever logged an NA after their experience.

[+OZ2CPU]

where is the hard part ??

SHARE YOUR EXPERIANCE WITH OTHERS ONLINE

that apply both to good and bad things,

actually it is MOST important to share the experiance when bad stuff happen,

I posted a few NA, and alot of NM logs during my time caching, and I did also write the reviewers directly

when stuff was too important to wait and see if CO did things

[+RenMin]

I have mixed feelings regarding this scenario. With the increased popularity of caching and subsequent public awareness why does law enforement still seem ignorant about caches and their placements?

Why do they seem not to have a proactive approach and thus learn where caches are being placed in any given community? For the most part we are a harmless community of people. Instead of harrassing people why not ask for a cache to be archived? I placed a cache at a local eatery, with permission, and the police were still called and the cache was removed. In my opinion they should have already known it was there.

[Clan Riffster]

why does law enforement still seem ignorant about caches and their placements?

Maybe they are busy learning cop stuff?

 

Why do they seem not to have a proactive approach

And how many hours of each shift should they dedicate to being proactive about a nerdy hobby?

 

and thus learn where caches are being placed in any given community?

Should each cop on the planet be given a premium membership, with auto notifications set to their patrol areas? I'm thinking Groundspeak would balk at that. But let's pretend hat they don't. Poof! Every cop, all 80 gazillion of them, now have access to the location of every traditional. Will Groundspeak also fund sufficient education, so the cops who access this data know what it means? I figure a couple hours in the classroom would suffice. Multiply that by 80 gazillion, and you have a significant expenditure. But again, to satisfy your fantasy, let's pretend that Groundspeak does pay for this, and continues to pay as new officers are hired. What about non traditionals? Should Groundspeak grant Secret Squirrel Reviewer powers to all 80 gazillion cops, so they know the final coordinates of these as well?

 

Instead of harrassing people why not ask for a cache to be archived?

If an officer is called to a suspicious object, on private property, showing up and asking questions is not harassment.

 

I placed a cache at a local eatery, with permission, and the police were still called and the cache was removed.

Who removed it?

 

In my opinion they should have already known it was there.

Because cops are psychic...

[+RenMin]

why does law enforement still seem ignorant about caches and their placements?

Maybe they are busy learning cop stuff?

 

Why do they seem not to have a proactive approach

And how many hours of each shift should they dedicate to being proactive about a nerdy hobby?

 

and thus learn where caches are being placed in any given community?

Should each cop on the planet be given a premium membership, with auto notifications set to their patrol areas? I'm thinking Groundspeak would balk at that. But let's pretend hat they don't. Poof! Every cop, all 80 gazillion of them, now have access to the location of every traditional. Will Groundspeak also fund sufficient education, so the cops who access this data know what it means? I figure a couple hours in the classroom would suffice. Multiply that by 80 gazillion, and you have a significant expenditure. But again, to satisfy your fantasy, let's pretend that Groundspeak does pay for this, and continues to pay as new officers are hired. What about non traditionals? Should Groundspeak grant Secret Squirrel Reviewer powers to all 80 gazillion cops, so they know the final coordinates of these as well?

 

Instead of harrassing people why not ask for a cache to be archived?

If an officer is called to a suspicious object, on private property, showing up and asking questions is not harassment.

 

I placed a cache at a local eatery, with permission, and the police were still called and the cache was removed.

Who removed it?

 

In my opinion they should have already known it was there.

Because cops are psychic...

 

I can understand your responses but I feel I need to elaborate.

 

Local law enforcement, whether they like it or not, are pulled into the hobby when they see somebody acting a bit "odd."

Most cachers have stories of being asked what they are doing by police. One that asked me smiled when I told him, and said his wife had tried it with his kids. I realize they have better things to do than

inform themselves on a hobby but such knowledge might prove useful if they are called to check out a suspicious object.

 

Knowledge of cache placements may help them understand their community and what people are doing where.

 

I guess "harassment" was a strong word but the point I was trying to make is if a cache is placed on federal property without permission it can and should be dealt with directly through Groundspeak. That would save the trouble of turning the occasional cacher around every time they come out to search. Immediate archival without question. I had heard (not sure if true) that Groundspeak will give free accounts to local law enforcement so as to keep tabs on placements. Not that every cop would have an account but departments would have ability to check out caches in their area.

 

Not suggesting training but just awareness. So when a 50 year old man pops out of the woods near a soccer field and mentions geocaching, the officer has a clue of what that means. or when a 38yo man is found climbing a tree in a park that same can be true.

[Mr.Yuck]

I have mixed feelings regarding this scenario. With the increased popularity of caching and subsequent public awareness why does law enforement still seem ignorant about caches and their placements?

Why do they seem not to have a proactive approach and thus learn where caches are being placed in any given community? For the most part we are a harmless community of people. Instead of harrassing people why not ask for a cache to be archived? I placed a cache at a local eatery, with permission, and the police were still called and the cache was removed. In my opinion they should have already known it was there.

 

Ah yes, the ol' "not everyone knows about the cache, even if hidden with permission" thing. I clicked on a few of your archived listings. Many of which are PMO, so I'm sure you see me in the audit log. I didn't see the cache in question. I'm a fellow upstate New Yorker, but on the other end of the State, by the way.

 

I say this a lot, forgive me for saying it again. Even if the claim on the main page of the website of 5,000,000 Geocachers worldwide is correct (and I'm of the opinion it's Grossly exaggerated), that would be .7% of the world's population. In the USA though, maybe I'll give us over 1% of the population. Still a rather fringe element in society, and I wouldn't expect the average officer on the street to have any idea about us, nor would I expect them to.

[Clan Riffster]

Local law enforcement, whether they like it or not, are pulled into the hobby when they see somebody acting a bit "odd."

Barring some sort of organized training, even if that training is just an awareness orientation, this is the point where most LEOs will learn about this hobby. Since it is unlikely that Groundspeak is going to finance orientation/awareness training for 80 gazillion cops, the job falls to us. I think it was Gandhi who stated " Be the change you want to see", which fits nicely in this scenario. I imagine that anyone playing this hobby would agree that increasing LEOs knowledge of the game would be beneficial. I propose that we all embrace the task of educator to the best of our abilities.

 

Knowledge of cache placements may help them understand their community and what people are doing where.

Can't argue with that. But we fall back on who will provide that knowledge.

 

I guess "harassment" was a strong word but the point I was trying to make is if a cache is placed on federal property without permission it can and should be dealt with directly through Groundspeak. That would save the trouble of turning the occasional cacher around every time they come out to search. Immediate archival without question.

I agree. A cache placed without permission, on any property, rates an immediate archival. Unfortunately, whilst the good folks at Groundspeak oft appear to have powers beyond those of mortal men, I don't think omniscience is one of them. If Groundspeak is not aware of a problem, it's hard for them to take corrective action. Nice again, we're back to s being the change we want to see. The cop turning folks around most likely won't have any idea regarding the archival process, and probably wouldn't recognize the Groundspeak logo if you tattooed it on their backsides. If I head to a cache, and a cop tells me Joe Public is not allowed on that property, I won't wait for the cop to learn about the archival process. I'll handle it myself.

 

I had heard (not sure if true) that Groundspeak will give free accounts to local law enforcement so as to keep tabs on placements. Not that every cop would have an account but departments would have ability to check out caches in their area.

Groundspeak will give free accounts to anyone who completes the sign up web form. Or did you mean premium memberships? I've heard that they will provide premium memberships to certain land managers. Not sure if cops qualify. If so, I'll take one!

[+WarNinjas]

I actually think they should bring it up once in a while. So they are aware. It is not to big of a deal to explain it to them on the couple of times I have been stopped. If you are not doing anything wrong and are nice most times the cops will be cool as well.

[+Off Grid]

This is a good reason why I read logs.

Logs of the police showing up and permission issues would've said don't go to either one.

What about a huge no trespassing sign on military property and no one said anything would you go than to because everyone else sure did. It wouldn't matter if they wrote in the logs the cops come because most Geo cachers seem to like the thrill....

[+The A-Team]

I had heard (not sure if true) that Groundspeak will give free accounts to local law enforcement so as to keep tabs on placements. Not that every cop would have an account but departments would have ability to check out caches in their area.

Groundspeak will give free accounts to anyone who completes the sign up web form. Or did you mean premium memberships? I've heard that they will provide premium memberships to certain land managers. Not sure if cops qualify. If so, I'll take one!

Land managers and law enforcement can get a free premium membership. See here.

[+A & J Tooling]

How about a land manager who will not allow geocaches to be posted in the areas under his control? This person is 'in charge' of a large swath of federal property in Michigan. Can he still get a free pass? Inquiring minds want to know.

[+Don_J]

How about a land manager who will not allow geocaches to be posted in the areas under his control? This person is 'in charge' of a large swath of federal property in Michigan. Can he still get a free pass? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Of course. One of the purposes of the free PM account is to allow him to monitor and see if a cache was accidentally published on his land.

[team tisri]

Knowledge of cache placements may help them understand their community and what people are doing where.

 

I guess "harassment" was a strong word but the point I was trying to make is if a cache is placed on federal property without permission it can and should be dealt with directly through Groundspeak. That would save the trouble of turning the occasional cacher around every time they come out to search. Immediate archival without question. I had heard (not sure if true) that Groundspeak will give free accounts to local law enforcement so as to keep tabs on placements. Not that every cop would have an account but departments would have ability to check out caches in their area.

 

Law enforcement knowing where caches are can raise awareness that a "suspicious package" may just be a game piece. There's some form of agreement in place with the Metropolitan Police in London that means caches can be hidden within what would otherwise be sensitive areas - the SW1 postcode area is home to places like Whitehall, Buckingham Palace etc and yet there are a number of caches there.

 

Not suggesting training but just awareness. So when a 50 year old man pops out of the woods near a soccer field and mentions geocaching, the officer has a clue of what that means. or when a 38yo man is found climbing a tree in a park that same can be true.

 

If all a 38yo man is doing is climbing a tree there needs to be a sense of perspective. Unless there's a rule against climbing trees, or the man is obviously using a vantage point for some kind of voyeuristic purposes (there's a huge difference between climbing a tree just for fun, and climbing a tree with a pair of binoculars and resting on a branch while looking into someone's bedroom window, for example), there's no reason to bother them. Frankly this notion that men in areas that children might also happen to be are inherently suspicious is nothing more than fearmongering.

[hoteltwo]

If you want to find a huge amount of various D/T caches on Federal Property go to the Eglin AFB Reservation in Northwest Florida. 250,000 acres of the 464,000 acre reservation are open to recreation. First get a range pass at the Jackson Guard located at 107 Hwy 85 North, in Niceville, FL. This is a MUST.

 

Check this map, inside the area marked in grey, to see the amount of caches available:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/map/?ll=30.46135,-86.54687#?ll=30.46135,-86.54687&z=10

 

You'll find caches from 1/1 to 5/5. Some require TOTT including 4X4's, canoes, hip waders, etc.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

why does law enforement still seem ignorant about caches and their placements?

Maybe they are busy learning cop stuff?

 

Why do they seem not to have a proactive approach

And how many hours of each shift should they dedicate to being proactive about a nerdy hobby?

 

and thus learn where caches are being placed in any given community?

Should each cop on the planet be given a premium membership, with auto notifications set to their patrol areas? I'm thinking Groundspeak would balk at that. But let's pretend hat they don't. Poof! Every cop, all 80 gazillion of them, now have access to the location of every traditional. Will Groundspeak also fund sufficient education, so the cops who access this data know what it means? I figure a couple hours in the classroom would suffice. Multiply that by 80 gazillion, and you have a significant expenditure. But again, to satisfy your fantasy, let's pretend that Groundspeak does pay for this, and continues to pay as new officers are hired. What about non traditionals? Should Groundspeak grant Secret Squirrel Reviewer powers to all 80 gazillion cops, so they know the final coordinates of these as well?

 

 

It may be worth mentioning at this point that geocaching is not the only nerdy hobby that involves people going out into the community and doing odd things.

 

 

[+niraD]

It may be worth mentioning at this point that geocaching is not the only nerdy hobby that involves people going out into the community and doing odd things.

Yep. Yep indeed.

 

Do Ducks Have Lips

Bigger and Better

Photo Scavenger Hunt (or just a regular scavenger hunt)

Humans vs. Zombies

Diamond Smuggers

etc., etc., etc.