an open invitation

[+Dekaner]

If you do it on the 3rd I can most likely come.

 

I have to be at IBM's Sterling Forest facility on Tuesday and was planning on flying into NYC on Monday. I can switch my plans to fly in Sunday morning, but then I'll just have to spend all day Monday caching as well.

 

The earliest flight would get me into LaGuardia at 9am. Anyone want to pick me up on the way?

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

[+Perfect Tommy]

At this rate, we are going to need a Higgins boat. I'll check the local army/navy surplus stores...

[+Alan2]

That's gwho third from the right.

[+Alan2]

Let's try that again.

 

[+Alan2]

How about if I just post the url. I'm having a bad night.

 

http://www.crt.state.la.us/crt/tourism/lawwii/Higgins/img_landingcraft2.htm

 

Alan

[+Perfect Tommy]

 

This picture was from our practice run last week before a German E-Boat interrupted the exercise.

[Cape Cod Cacher]

I've been watching this thread for a while with a bit of interest... I passed by the island (well, the whole area) last weekend delivering a boat to Cape May. Boat was a little large to make an amphibious landing though.

 

I had 2 thoughts running through my head. First was years ago, fogged in by Sandy Hook light, lots of little Wrent-a-Wreck boats comming over to ask directions. We asked for bait in trade, if they said no we sent them out to open water, a 'yes' got them home. I hope with 12 GPS' on board, that won't happen. Second was the 'fishing scene' from "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest". THAT MIGHT HAPPEN!

Get a local chart, pretty easy to find, Waterproof Charts has a few for $20 or so. And they're in WGS-84 too boot... Dying to see pix from this, err, voyage/expedition/landing/quest...

[+Alan2]

I knew someone would get it right.

 

Alan

[dboggny]

has the date/time/location been fimed up yet?

 

SR and dboggny.

[+Frolickin]

I just caught this thread . . . haven't been in this forum for a while. I might be interested in a run up here too. I am certified in search and rescue diving should the boat capsize. Of course, I'd probably save my own butt first.

 

Is the idea to meet nearby or would someone like to meet up (from South Jersey) to share rides?

 

Fro.

 

________________________________________

Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

[+Dekaner]

Just need to know so I can make appropriate travel plans!

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

[+lostinjersey]

I checked out rentals. I could only find one place, The Boat Livery on City Island. 718-885-1843. N40°51.369 W73°47.473' 4 miles to the bridge, then 6 miles to the island. Motorboat costs $55 & seats 4 people. no boat license is needed. Note that all the palces I found were at City Island. Is there a rental palces closer? Could be but I didnt find any. If anyone else wishes to search that out, please feel free. It's almost 10 miles which seems kinda far.

 

I am not a boat person. I didn't know how to ask this so I didn't bother trying. My only concern is will we be able to "beach" the boat, or will will we have to drop anchor & then wade in from a distance. This is critical. I'd imagine we could beach it or get close enough where you might get wet half way to your knees. Again, I'm not sure. We'd have use of the boat till 4PM.

 

I repeat, I'm not a boat person. I urge anyone here with boating experience to a) say so & please volunteer to drive.. er pilot. if said person thinks what I said is logical (about beaching) also please say so, if not could they find out?

 

As for time. I propose say 11AM on Sunday 11/10. Let's have the roll call if you will.

 

To summarize the proposal:

 

Time/date: 11AM Sunday 11/10

Place: The Boat Livery 663 City Island Ave, Bronx

Cost: $19 p/p.

 

Bring: Dress warm, bring a change of pants, socks & shoes just in case. Also bring items for a new cache, possibly two. there are other islands out here we could hide one in.

 

Travel plans is everyone's responsibility, but I will be willing to bring some folks if they want to meet me either near my house in Bogota. Personally the area in Fort Lee is a good park n ride spot too.

 

 

www.gpswnj.com

[+Alan2]

I've been wanting to do this cache myself but I've been nervous that you guys are pushing it. So I figured I'd watch from Queens. 10 miles in a powered rowboat with 4-5 people? That's one way! This isn't a lake. The currents can get rough out there. WHy don't you check with the cache placer and the other guys who've been there already? At least they can clue you into when best to go, tides, depth, etc. You may want a larger boat to get you there then use a skiff to take you through the shallows. Take care.

 

Alan

[+Crusso]

Ok, last I heard we were going on 11/3 w/an alternate on 11/10. The longer we wait the colder it gets! Now it seems I see 11/10 being mentioned as the go date. When are we doin this & what are the particulars???

 

Wherever you go, there you are!

[+Frolickin]

Under the current plan, I will remain safely ashore.

 

I am not certain this boat is good for this trip. Without knowing more information (like are any of us adept at handling this thing, how strong are the currents, etc.), I think that perhaps this is not the cache to be hunting.

 

One suggestion . . . whoever place the cache might be able to assist in what would be needed.

 

Fro.

 

________________________________________

Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

[BassoonPilot]

The person who placed the cache stated long ago (probably 6 months) that he had no idea if the cache still existed and he would not be in a position to check up on it. Basically, a "caveat emptor." There has also been some concern expressed regarding the legitimacy of the September find claimed on the cache ... once the group of intrepid explorers get there, they can verify it.

 

Mopar stated that he was familiar with the waters and was willing to pilot the craft, but he has apparently lost interest ... that appears to leave Perfect Tommy as your sole experienced boat person. If I were Tommy (or Mopar), I would want to know precisely what personal liability I was assuming before agreeing to lead this expedition.

 

But have fun! Perhaps Danny can arrange an (unofficial) escort for you.

[Vonster]

I'm happy to go on 11/10 as it stands right now, possibly because I'm a looney limey and have scant regard for my personal safety

Seriously, I think the other posters have a point - we will be better off with a larger boat. According to the guy at Boat Livery, the boats in question are 6hp which he doesn't reccomend taking on the East River, although it is do-able. He does have 10hp boats available, but I don't know how much that would cost us. Tides will also be a factor. However, apparently there are no mooring facilities at South Brother at all, which presents its own set of problems.

Team Bubbletree mentioned a 20ft fishing boat a while back - I'm guessing this is a v-hull? Without a (reasonably) flat-bottomed craft (skiff or dory) I fear we're going to get wet coming into the beach. The kayak option works (brrrrr...) but without knowing the currents & tides in the area I'd be loath to suggest paddling from the lower west side around to South Brother. Let's work out who's definitely in so we know the numbers, finalise a date, and then work out if we can get a boat. If we can get a concensus by this weekend I'll head up to the marina and find out what the bigger boats cost, and what our options are. I have a small amount of small boat handling experience, so if the worst comes to the worst and Tommy can't make it, or we have to take 2 boats out, I'd be happy to pilot one of the ships of fools

[+Crusso]

People, People, People.... Are we going or not? Do we have a boat source? What's the deal?

 

Wherever you go, there you are!

[+Crusso]

My vote is the bigger boat the better. There is no substitute for horsepower! Kayak is definately out.

 

Wherever you go, there you are!

[+Mopar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

 

Mopar stated that he was familiar with the waters and was willing to pilot the craft, but he has apparently lost interest ...

---

Lost interest? NEVER! Slacked off a bit reading the forums? You bet!

I sorta thought this was coming together via email, but that doesnt seem to be the case I see. I thought things were going off on the 3rd. I will be visiting the big mouse house in warm sunny Florida from Nov.8 to Nov.18th, so I guess count me out if its going to be the 10th now.

As for boat: as I think I stated elsewhere, while not being familiar with that actual area, I have spent more years then I care to count on the waters around NYC/Staten Island and frankly the idea of doing this trip in a aluminumn rowboat with a 6hp motor scares the SH*T outta me!

I used to own a 17ft speedboat with a 150hp outboard. I took it to the Statue of Liberty exactly ONE time. After I got back from that trip, I promptly went to the local dealer and bought a 23ft deepvee hull with a V8 in it. I once took a 19ft bowrider up to NY harbor for a friend, and it was still fairly hairy.

Even if the weather is calm, the water around NYC can be very turbulant and unpredictable. You've places where rivers flow into each other, downflowing rivers meet incoming tides, places where fresh water meets salt, warm water meets cold. All things that can make for some nasty stuff in a rowboat. Then there is the commercial traffic. If the thought of sitting 1 foot off the water and seeing 6ft tall wakes coming from a tug scares ya, wait till your on top of that wake and have to go down the other side.

Not to be a party-pooper, but anything under 20ft is going to take some experience, and anything under 16ft is going to require skill and maybe a bit of luck. I wouldnt take a boat of any size unless you have a pilot for each one with open water experience.

 

Illegitimus non carborundum!

[+Mopar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Crusso:

My vote is the bigger boat the better. There is no substitute for horsepower! Kayak is definately out.

 

Wherever you go, there you are!

---

Well, not totally... I would take a sea kayak over a 14ft 6 horse rowboat! Not that I would want to do 20 miles of open water in either. I would definately take my 9ft waverunner over either, though.

 

Illegitimus non carborundum!

[+Mopar]

No matter what size boat, your gonna get wet feet. A small boat is gonna have some water sloshing around inside, plus spray, waves, etc. Plus even if you can easily beach it, someone's gotta push it back into the water. A larger boat you may or may not be able to get it close enough to jump from the bow to shore, but you will still more then likely get wet.

Make sure you check the tides. You dont want to tackle it at low tide for several reasons.

1: We have fairly extreme tidal changes around here. Normal is around 5-6ft. Nov 3rd, because of the the phase of the moon, is actually going to be about 10ft. That means the water is going to be 10ft deeper at high tide then low. So if you come in as the tide is receeding, the water could be a foot or 2 shallower when you go to leave the cache, and you may run aground in a place you were fine coming in. If this happens your stuck there for the next 12hrs.

If you time it so you arrive a few hrs before high tide (which should be around 4pm on the 10th) worst case is you run aground on way in or out, and you will float back off in a hour as the tide rises.

2: Unless you are lucky enough to find a nice sandy beach, below the highwater mark will be a mucky, sticky, muddy mess that may or may not be like quicksand. See logs for Muskrats, Mosquitos & Muck for an example of this type of terrain. So, the closer to high tide you come in, the better off you are as far as this is concerned. (bont forget #1 above)

 

High tide for Nov 10 is about 4pm with dead low at 10am

High tide for Nov 3rd is around 9:30am with dead low around 4pm

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

[+lostinjersey]

I realized in retrospect I left out a paragraph I had meant to type. I will basically say it now, but with more info. What I wanted to say was that this didn't sound to kosher to me because a) it's 10 miles and I don't imagine these currents are terribly easy, especially if there's other boat traffic, which I imagine there is. What I was trying to do was compell us to spit or get off the pot. I was hoping someone else might know of (or find) a better (i.e. closer) place.

 

Well.. I think this outing may have been planned a bit late for a few reasons and may have to wait till next spring. talked to the cache owner, he kayaked over. Doesn't know of any boat rentals places. no help there. he said the currents are very swift, experienced pilots only. ok, confirms my other thoughts which leads to this conclusion

 

We have to get a bigger boat with someone knowledgable to pilot it. smaller boats are not as safe plus will require 2 pilots since one small boat won't accomodate everyone. Furthermore the boat rental place says he only rents till it gets too cold. too cold as defined by the first snow, which coincidentally is today, depending on where you live, so we might not even be able to rent.

 

Unless everyone is die hard committed, I say this waits till spring. At least I know theres definate interest here. What does everyone else think?

 

 

www.gpswnj.com

[+Crusso]

Gee, My girlfriend has been sayin the same thing since this thread started. I'm all for goin out half cocked on a wing & a prayer but shes the sensible one! I have no problem waiting till spring if that's the group consensus. I'm sure since we got some interest we could come up with a couple of other interesting caches to do as a group.

 

Wherever you go, there you are!

[+Mopar]

I'm not saying bail..... just making sure you are all prepared. Me? If I could find a few of you wild and crazy cachers with personal watercraft, I'd still be up for it. Ocean temp is still mid 50's, still do-able with proper cold water gear. I can ride in 2ft of water or less, and at least float it in 12 inches or less. Anyone?

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

[Cape Cod Cacher]

Have to agree with Mopar... That's a TOUGH bit of water for a tiny 18' boat... I just went by in a 65'sport fisher, and it's not a real fun place. It ain't called "Hell Gate" for nothing. The Eldred's Tide and Current book shows how nasty it can get. If Mopar wants to cruise with a waterbike gang, more power to him. Just shows how soft in the melon a hard-core boatie can get

 

"We're gonna need a bigger boat": Chief Brodie, 'Jaws'

[dboggny]

i spoke to members of the nypd harbor unit about this plan. they said they wanted the date and time of our adventure so they could meet us there to pull us out of the drink when we went in. they said it, however, only half joking. what i find interesting is that i see people going up and down the east river on jet skis all the time. why can we not do it in a small boat with a motor?

 

SR and dboggny.

[+Mopar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by SR & dboggny:

what i find interesting is that i see people going up and down the east river on jet skis all the time. why can we not do it in a small boat with a motor?

---

Two totally different types of craft. It's like saying "I see lots of ATV's running down that muddy trail, why cant I take a Nissan Sentra?"

A Personal Water Craft (jetski, waverunner, seadoo, etc) is the marine equivalent to a dirt bike or quad. They may be small, but they are very manuverable, and have a very high power to weight ratio. 1500lbs or more of boat, motor, and people with a 6-10 horsepower motor. 600lbs of PWC and rider with 50-160 horsepower motor. Huge dif!

Then there is the whole riding position thing. On a PWC you are riding on top of the craft, not in it. There is no cockpit to get swamped with water. A PWC is actually designed to be capsized or submerged on a regular basis. They can easily be righted, restarted, and away you go. Capsize a 14ft boat, and your stuck in the water until help arrives. Plus, usually since on a PWC its only a matter of when, not if, you get wet, your better prepared for it. The gear I would wear now would be very close to what someone would wear if they were diving in the same temp waters. Even I would not dress the same if I were going on a boat.

PWC are designed to jump large waves and get airborne without being damaged or losing their rider. They are well balanced with the mid-mounted engine.If you got that 14ft outboard boat 6ft outta the water, chances are most of you would be in the water by the time you landed. Sorta like taking your car over a motocross track.

Water conditions that are dangerous or unpleasant for small boats are actually more fun on a PWC. Just like riding a dirtbike down a trail with lots of jumps and whooptydoos is more fun then riding a dirtbike down a street.

 

PS for CCCache: Yea, funny how that skull seems to soften. Think its all those years of soaking in saltwater. I played the "must keep buying bigger hole in water" game for a long time, then stopped. I think I started equating bigger boats with getting older. I also noticed the bigger they got, the more time they spent at the dock, not on the open water. If I want a 2nd home, I'll buy one. Now, I can go whenever the mood strikes me (and I can find someone, cause I rarely take ANYTHING out alone), and my fuel and maintenance costs are less then what just my slipfee was. Do I miss drifting around the bay at night, laying on the deck looking up at the stars? Hell yea, right up until the time I stop for fuel, and pull out $10 bills instead of $100's

Yea, PWC's tend to have a bad rep among boaters, hell I used to hate them myself, but I learned its the operator, not the craft. The "waterbike gang" I ride with are all older, mature, and very safe. Any horse play is done on open water, well away from anyone else, and never alone. You wont see us jumping boat wakes, or operating eratically in the harbor. You will see us respecting no wake zones, even though many boats do not, and we probably make less wake on plane then off. You will see us helping clueless boaters. Many times a year we tow people out of shallow water who can afford a 28ft boat, but don't know we have a 5ft tide change here. Or get 5gal of gas fo someone who don't know how to read the fuel gauge. Sorry to go off on a totally offtopic tangent, but not all off us are punk kids blasting thru moorings and across fishing lines.

Give one a try CCC, they really are alot of fun!

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

[Vonster]

I don't know, back in my day no geocacher worth his GPSr would have passed up the opportunity to log a cache. 37' waves, sub-zero temperatures, crazy currents, and homocidal tug-boat operators were meat and drink to us back then - mind you, in those days we had to walk barefoot to school in the snow, uphill both ways, with a sack of coal for the classroom fire on our backs, and when we got home our dads would murder us in cold blood and dance upand down on our graves singing hallelujah...

...ok, so where can we hire jet skis? Last one with hypothermia's a rotten egg...

[+lostinjersey]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mopar:

If I could find a few of you wild and crazy cachers with personal watercraft, I'd still be up for it.

---

 

That's the hitch. I think if anyone here had a personal water craft they'd have come forward by now. Since they didn't it's rely on renting, which just ain't going well. maybe someone will get one for christmas.

 

I will go on record as saying I had hoped to find interested persons, and hoped someone else more knowledgable (preferably the one with the boat) would take charge. didn't happen. with no other leader & no boat, I plan to hold off, research this out much more thoroughly in the spring, before reposting in the forums about the idea. Course if mr boat owner shows up, I'm up for this regardless of the time of year. shoiuld be a lotta fun rehardless of the temperature. (he says that now they all thought silently)

 

 

www.gpswnj.com

[+dthigpen]

Okay Okay, I kid. It was a joke.

 

Doug

[+lostinjersey]

Well now that it's getting warmer, I figured it was about time to reopne this discussion. In case you forgot: I can't get a boat, I can't pilot a boat, and I'm the last person who should be organizing this thing. I hope someone who has a boat (or can get us one) will do the legwork. I'm not lazy, I just don't wanna drown a half dozen geocachers cause I'm a newbie.

 

 

www.gpswnj.com

[+HartClimbs]

I have a tow rope, a pair of waterskis, and a life jacket.

 

Mind dragging me behind the rowboat when you go? ("PLEASE ROW FASTER GUYS!")

 

If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. -Robert X. Cringely, InfoWorld magazine

[+Mopar]

I'm still interested too. Still say for a group of 6 mostly ahem LARGE geocachers, in that area, we need something seaworthy. No 14ft jonboats with 9.9hp outboards. Something you would feel comfortable dealing with 4-6ft wakes and 3-4mph currents. BTW, when I checked the other day, the water temp is still in mid 40's. Most people won't last long in the water at those temps.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

[+lostinjersey]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mopar:

a group of 6 mostly ahem LARGE geocachers...

---

 

quote:

---

BTW, when I checked the other day, the water temp is still in mid 40's. Most people won't last long in the water at those temps.

---

 

two questions... why are you peeking in my window at night, (to known that I am large or not) and two, assuming you're right, wouldnt our preponderous (spelt wrong) bulk insulate us longer then our skinny fellow geocachers?

 

joking aside, I would think larger boats will give us more room to spread out & not be cramped (wherther we need it or not, it's always nicer that way). Your thinking is precisely why I won't be planning this. I don't know jack about boats, boat rentals, tides or anything else marine-related, which is a shame since it's my proposal.

 

 

www.gpswnj.com