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It seems most cachers enjoy a variety of icon style hides. I have just been able to do the beacon/ chirp hides with my newly acquired Oregon 450T.

Like the Wherigo they require special technology to enjoy, and the several I have done have worked well. However, most are published under the "puzzle" icon which I think

is better suited to ideas that don't require special tech to complete. Is it possible to make the chirp cache its own icon? They have been around a bit and it seems

like a natural progression. What do you all think? Thanks for your time.

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

 

I wish they'd remove the letterbox hybrid cache type. It seems that most people have little knowledge about what a letterbox is. Most seem to be, as the OP says 'cachers [who] enjoy a variety of icon style hides'. I would rather they were listed as either a puzzle, traditional or multi depending on the type of hide, then provide attributes for the type of stamp in the box - a hand attribute for hand-carved stamp, a stamp with a handle for commercial stamp.At least Chirps have their own attribute.

Edited by L0ne R
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It seems most cachers enjoy a variety of icon style hides. I have just been able to do the beacon/ chirp hides with my newly acquired Oregon 450T.

Like the Wherigo they require special technology to enjoy, and the several I have done have worked well. However, most are published under the "puzzle" icon which I think

is better suited to ideas that don't require special tech to complete. Is it possible to make the chirp cache its own icon? They have been around a bit and it seems

like a natural progression. What do you all think? Thanks for your time.

 

A PQ searching for all beacon caches within 100 miles of your "Ped Expressway" cache finds only 10, 8 puzzle and 2 multi. That seems hardly enough to justify the work necessary to create a new cache icon.

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

 

I can partly understand that since GS trys to remain neutral in that regard. However, if Garmin has invested time and money to add another level to the caching experience, shouldn't it be acknowledged?

It would at least add a level of competition for these companies to develop new ideas for the hobby. Since the "chirp" is a specific caching application it would or could stand on its own and the icon would not include the "beacon."

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It seems most cachers enjoy a variety of icon style hides. I have just been able to do the beacon/ chirp hides with my newly acquired Oregon 450T.

Like the Wherigo they require special technology to enjoy, and the several I have done have worked well. However, most are published under the "puzzle" icon which I think

is better suited to ideas that don't require special tech to complete. Is it possible to make the chirp cache its own icon? They have been around a bit and it seems

like a natural progression. What do you all think? Thanks for your time.

 

A PQ searching for all beacon caches within 100 miles of your "Ped Expressway" cache finds only 10, 8 puzzle and 2 multi. That seems hardly enough to justify the work necessary to create a new cache icon.

 

Not sure I understand the work involved. I would assume mostly some programming to the website. Your PQ kinda makes my point. I feel making this into its own icon will add interest.

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

 

I wish they'd remove the letterbox hybrid cache type. It seems that most people have little knowledge about what a letterbox is. Most seem to be, as the OP says 'cachers [who] enjoy a variety of icon style hides'. I would rather they were listed as either a puzzle, traditional or multi depending on the type of hide, then provide attributes for the type of stamp in the box - a hand attribute for hand-carved stamp, a stamp with a handle for commercial stamp.At least Chirps have their own attribute.

 

Several of the cachers in the area I live have designed/ purchased their own stamp and fully understand the concept. They look forward to new listings which by the way, are few and far between.

Letterboxs do provide the variety that I think is essential to this hobby. And those of us who enjoy "a variety" of hide methods/ icons understand the differences and hold to the guildelines surrounding them.

But lets talk about the Chirp suggestion.

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

The radio beacon attribute could also be used with MP3 caches also, and it's not a Garmin-specific device. :) This site has the best attributes of all the geocache listing services IMO. B)

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

 

I wish they'd remove the letterbox hybrid cache type. It seems that most people have little knowledge about what a letterbox is. Most seem to be, as the OP says 'cachers [who] enjoy a variety of icon style hides'. I would rather they were listed as either a puzzle, traditional or multi depending on the type of hide, then provide attributes for the type of stamp in the box - a hand attribute for hand-carved stamp, a stamp with a handle for commercial stamp.At least Chirps have their own attribute.

 

Several of the cachers in the area I live have designed/ purchased their own stamp and fully understand the concept. They look forward to new listings which by the way, are few and far between.

Letterboxs do provide the variety that I think is essential to this hobby. And those of us who enjoy "a variety" of hide methods/ icons understand the differences and hold to the guildelines surrounding them.

But lets talk about the Chirp suggestion.

 

If it's only about collecting an icon in one's inventory, I don't see it as improving the pastime. More and more people will want new cache types to collect. It'll be less about the cache experience and more about the icon.

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

 

I wish they'd remove the letterbox hybrid cache type. It seems that most people have little knowledge about what a letterbox is. Most seem to be, as the OP says 'cachers [who] enjoy a variety of icon style hides'. I would rather they were listed as either a puzzle, traditional or multi depending on the type of hide, then provide attributes for the type of stamp in the box - a hand attribute for hand-carved stamp, a stamp with a handle for commercial stamp.At least Chirps have their own attribute.

 

Several of the cachers in the area I live have designed/ purchased their own stamp and fully understand the concept. They look forward to new listings which by the way, are few and far between.

Letterboxs do provide the variety that I think is essential to this hobby. And those of us who enjoy "a variety" of hide methods/ icons understand the differences and hold to the guildelines surrounding them.

 

You have planted 2 letterboxes. Did you carve the stamp? Is it unique? Is it related to the theme or location? There is no mention of a stamp in your description or in the logs. What was your motivation to hide letterboxes? Letterboxes are all about the unique stamp that defines the box. Icon collecting has lead to this problem, in my opinion. So I get anxie when people try to promote more of it.

Edited by L0ne R
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As has been said, the radio beacon attribute is now being used (and required) for other similar types of technology; e.g. caches using NFC (see Example )

 

A new cache type? I would say no. It depends where you draw the line. Conceptually these are similar to caches where coordinate information is distributed by Wifi; these have been around for many years. It seems more like something which complements existing cache types rather than requiring a new icon.

 

Yes I guess you could argue the same for Wherigos; could they have been an attribute rather than an icon. But without a strong argument old icons aren't going to be removed and new ones won't be added. I see Wherigos as being generally quite a different kind of caching experience so I think a separate icon makes sense. The beacons are more like any other physical stage; they just need something special to read them.

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

 

I wish they'd remove the letterbox hybrid cache type. It seems that most people have little knowledge about what a letterbox is. Most seem to be, as the OP says 'cachers [who] enjoy a variety of icon style hides'. I would rather they were listed as either a puzzle, traditional or multi depending on the type of hide, then provide attributes for the type of stamp in the box - a hand attribute for hand-carved stamp, a stamp with a handle for commercial stamp.At least Chirps have their own attribute.

 

Several of the cachers in the area I live have designed/ purchased their own stamp and fully understand the concept. They look forward to new listings which by the way, are few and far between.

Letterboxs do provide the variety that I think is essential to this hobby. And those of us who enjoy "a variety" of hide methods/ icons understand the differences and hold to the guildelines surrounding them.

 

You have planted 2 letterboxes. Did you carve the stamp? Is it unique? Is it related to the theme or location? There is no mention of a stamp in your description or in the logs. What was your motivation to hide letterboxes? Letterboxes are all about the unique stamp that defines the box. Icon collecting has lead to this problem, in my opinion. So I get anxie when people try to promote more of it.

 

Both of the letterboxs have their own stamps and fulfill the related requirements. Just how unique and different they are depends on the individual. Favorite points can sift the good from the bad cause we all know that the quality of a cache regardless of the icon depends on the individual and how much time and money they have to put forth. I placed them cause I already had done the other styles and wanted to give them a try. I spent some time retreiving actual letterboxes in my area too. They are a style that gets little attention as most seem to enjoy the tradional. To collect an icon means you have to put forth the effort that icon requires. You can't simply collect multis cause they take longer and can be more challenging and I would argue I am not trying to glut our area with senseless icons. When is the last time a new icon was added? It seems more have been removed for some reason or another.

This seems to be a technology that deserves consideration since, like the Wherigo, it directs the caching experience. GS will ultimately decide and thus make sure only quality ideas make it through. Whether this one is or is not has probably been decideda already by GS. And yet they wanted me to pose the topic here for discussion.

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Not gonna happen until the "Chirp" is no longer a Garmin-specific device, made by and for Garmin GPS. They are listed as puzzles because GS mandated them to be puzzles when they added the radio beacon attribute. BTW, there are radio beacon caches that do not use a chirp, so the category is larger than just that device. Personally, I don't see the justification.

 

I wish they'd remove the letterbox hybrid cache type. It seems that most people have little knowledge about what a letterbox is. Most seem to be, as the OP says 'cachers [who] enjoy a variety of icon style hides'. I would rather they were listed as either a puzzle, traditional or multi depending on the type of hide, then provide attributes for the type of stamp in the box - a hand attribute for hand-carved stamp, a stamp with a handle for commercial stamp.At least Chirps have their own attribute.

 

Several of the cachers in the area I live have designed/ purchased their own stamp and fully understand the concept. They look forward to new listings which by the way, are few and far between.

Letterboxs do provide the variety that I think is essential to this hobby. And those of us who enjoy "a variety" of hide methods/ icons understand the differences and hold to the guildelines surrounding them.

 

You have planted 2 letterboxes. Did you carve the stamp? Is it unique? Is it related to the theme or location? There is no mention of a stamp in your description or in the logs. What was your motivation to hide letterboxes? Letterboxes are all about the unique stamp that defines the box. Icon collecting has lead to this problem, in my opinion.

 

I suspect that may be true for a letterbox when looking at it from a letterboxer's perspective. However, when considering a letterbox hybrid, listed on the geocaching site, I suspect that it's not really the case. I know that some pure letterboxes allow for the use of lat/long coordinates, but in the case of a letterbox hybrid, they're required and kind of defeat the use of "clues" that are so much part of a letterbox. Personally I wish GS would have been a little stricter in their definition of a letterbox hybrid and that the coordinates included would only be for a starting location and clues used in the same manner as a regular letterbox to find the box. I wouldn't suggest that a carved stamp be mandatory, and as far as I can tell a carved stamp isn't mandatory (only preferred) on the letterboxing sites.

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Not sure why this issue of letterbox hybrids keeps having people talk about gps coords are required, as that does not seem to be the case. I just did my first letterbox hybrid (they are very rare in AK) a couple weeks ago and the coordinates were for the starting point. Then you used the listing to follow the clues from point to point to point until you got to the cache. It was more like a multi-cache in execution, but was a recently published letterbox hybrid with a cross-listed posting on the letterboxing site (they were listed simultaneously).

 

Per the guidelines:

 

This cache type pays homage to an older form of scavenger hunt. A Letterbox Hybrid must include significant GPS usage for at least part of the hunt. Letterbox-style clues may be used to guide seekers to the container, but only if the clues are accompanied by coordinates specific to the hide. The container for a Letterbox Hybrid must include a stamp, which stays with the geocache and may be used by letter-boxers to stamp their personal letter-boxing book. The cache can be logged without using the stamp.

 

Note... "must include significant gps usage for at least part of the hunt" is not all that limiting on mandating coordinates and gps use.

 

The key pieces that make it a letterbox hybrid being the inclusion of a stamp and the cross-listing on the letterboxing site.

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The key pieces that make it a letterbox hybrid being the inclusion of a stamp and the cross-listing on the letterboxing site.

I don't think cross-listing is a requirement for letterbox hybrid caches. My letterbox hybrid wasn't cross-listed.

 

Nor is mine. It is not required, merely suggested. Curiously, it is my second most found cache, and second most favorited. (Well. It is in a popular tourist spot, and has a different icon.) More oddly, my most found and favorited is my Webcam cache. Oh, well. Makes up for my evil mystery caches, and long hikes.

But to OP: Unknown is the catch-all category for caches that do not fit into another category. Chirp fits in well there. I've hunted two chirps. One was weak. The other was dead. A very minimal hide category. And limited to certain users. (Oh! That's true of Where-did-I-go caches too.)

No. I do not see the need for a new icon. They're dying out. Let them die.

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The key pieces that make it a letterbox hybrid being the inclusion of a stamp and the cross-listing on the letterboxing site.

I don't think cross-listing is a requirement for letterbox hybrid caches. My letterbox hybrid wasn't cross-listed.

 

Nor is mine. It is not required, merely suggested. Curiously, it is my second most found cache, and second most favorited. (Well. It is in a popular tourist spot, and has a different icon.) More oddly, my most found and favorited is my Webcam cache. Oh, well. Makes up for my evil mystery caches, and long hikes.

But to OP: Unknown is the catch-all category for caches that do not fit into another category. Chirp fits in well there. I've hunted two chirps. One was weak. The other was dead. A very minimal hide category. And limited to certain users. (Oh! That's true of Where-did-I-go caches too.)

No. I do not see the need for a new icon. They're dying out. Let them die.

 

Appreciate your input. But many caches are designed with limitations if you don't have the gear, i.e. kayak caches, spelunking, space, Wherigo (already mentioned), chirp, very, very difficult puzzles, etc.. That

limitation should push users to acquire the gear to enjoy the cache. Whether thats getting a gps that can do Wherigo and Chirp, buying a kayak, or learning how to spelunk. That is one of the better aspects of the hobby. In my opinion a Puzzle cache shouldn't require special gear to complete save your home computer, gps, and some brain power. Consideration should be given to any new tech that directs the caching experience like Wherigo does, and separated out into its own icon. The glut of icons some are afraid doesn't hold true in my area which has many, many traditionals, followed by puzzles, multis but very few Letterboxes, Wherigos, and Earthcaches. It seems to me that many icons are underutilized. Ultimately GS determines what stays and goes and thus keeps the map from being filled with too many senseless icons. The Chirp, I feel, would not be one of them.

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While it doesn't appear that GS "requires" cross-listing in the guidelines (and that would be a hard thing to do with the multiple LB listing services), if you don't cross list a letterbox, then it's just a geocache. Seems to me, in order to be a "hybrid" between geocaching and letterboxing, you have to have both groups playing the game piece. Without letterboxers looking for it, you really don't have a "letterbox hybrid", and should just call it what it is... a traditional or multi-cache.

Edited by SSO JOAT
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It seems this thread has digressed into a discussion on Letterbox hybrids. I am not sure why some are adverse to the idea of a new icon. The only reason I can see why the chirp should not be its own icon may relate to a legal restriction. Since it is a Garmin product and nobody has a similar product. However, giving it icon status may encourage other manufacturers to develop other geo ideas. Others are afraid of a an icon proliferation but the icons are controlled by GS. The current icons, at least in my area, are not overproduced by underproduced, save the traditional. I still vote for the chirp to be separated out into its own icon. The main arguement relates to the Wherigo and the similarities of the tech guiding the cache experience. Anyhew, I would consider this thread closed as most have weighed in. Now to purchase a chirp and put out a puzzle cache chirp of my own.

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It seems this thread has digressed into a discussion on Letterbox hybrids. I am not sure why some are adverse to the idea of a new icon. The only reason I can see why the chirp should not be its own icon may relate to a legal restriction. Since it is a Garmin product and nobody has a similar product. However, giving it icon status may encourage other manufacturers to develop other geo ideas. Others are afraid of a an icon proliferation but the icons are controlled by GS. The current icons, at least in my area, are not overproduced by underproduced, save the traditional. I still vote for the chirp to be separated out into its own icon. The main arguement relates to the Wherigo and the similarities of the tech guiding the cache experience. Anyhew, I would consider this thread closed as most have weighed in. Now to purchase a chirp and put out a puzzle cache chirp of my own.

 

Here are other reasons you seem to have missed:

 

1) There is programming work required. The fact that I executed an SQL query to count the attributes in your area has NOTHING to do with the extra programming needed. Your statement "Your PQ kinda makes my point" speaks volumes. With all the current issues that are outstanding for the website, the mobile apps, and the API, any programming dedicated to such a miniscule part of the caching environment is wasted time. One small such item: getting corrected coordinates passed to the GPS automatically via all access methods.

 

2) The new icon would add nothing to the hobby. Please defend your statement it would stimulate interest without discussing icon collecting. Describe other benefits to having an additional icon. They are already searchable by the attribute, so what else does the new icon offer. And with a PQ you can see them on a map to see if there are any nearby.

 

3) Any icon change would also impact all the other applications that connect to GS via the API. Even more programming work.

 

4) Beacon caches are just like kayak caches, technical climbing caches, diving caches to name but a few: Each can all be an unknown cache, a traditional cache, or a multi-cache. If the cache owner places a Chirp on on an unknown cache what icon does it get? How about a difficult puzzle cache that also has a chirp at GZ? Many (most?) do not include unknown caches in their general PQs because they often require advance work before going to the field. A Chirp may or may not require preliminary work but with the new icon you can't tell. This would be an improvement?

 

5) Even the developer of Chirp does not have a unique icon.

 

6) Icons are not in place to sell equipment. Your statement "That limitation should push users to acquire the gear to enjoy the cache" is exclusive instead of inclusive. (And I'm trying to be polite here.) I think I have only done two Chirp caches and both have offered alternate ways to find them.

 

7) To place the icon on the map requires the cacher to spend money to buy a special device. Almost like requiring a finder to visit a commercial site to find a cache.

 

8) A restatement of 1). There just aren't enough such caches to justify the suggestion nor the time and effort to implement it. I have neither sought them out nor avoided them but have encountered only 2 in over 1200 visits.

 

I'm sure there are others that I have overlooked.

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It seems this thread has digressed into a discussion on Letterbox hybrids. I am not sure why some are adverse to the idea of a new icon. The only reason I can see why the chirp should not be its own icon may relate to a legal restriction. Since it is a Garmin product and nobody has a similar product. However, giving it icon status may encourage other manufacturers to develop other geo ideas. Others are afraid of a an icon proliferation but the icons are controlled by GS. The current icons, at least in my area, are not overproduced by underproduced, save the traditional. I still vote for the chirp to be separated out into its own icon. The main arguement relates to the Wherigo and the similarities of the tech guiding the cache experience. Anyhew, I would consider this thread closed as most have weighed in. Now to purchase a chirp and put out a puzzle cache chirp of my own.

 

Here are other reasons you seem to have missed:

 

1) There is programming work required. The fact that I executed an SQL query to count the attributes in your area has NOTHING to do with the extra programming needed. Your statement "Your PQ kinda makes my point" speaks volumes. With all the current issues that are outstanding for the website, the mobile apps, and the API, any programming dedicated to such a miniscule part of the caching environment is wasted time. One small such item: getting corrected coordinates passed to the GPS automatically via all access methods.

 

2) The new icon would add nothing to the hobby. Please defend your statement it would stimulate interest without discussing icon collecting. Describe other benefits to having an additional icon. They are already searchable by the attribute, so what else does the new icon offer. And with a PQ you can see them on a map to see if there are any nearby.

 

3) Any icon change would also impact all the other applications that connect to GS via the API. Even more programming work.

 

4) Beacon caches are just like kayak caches, technical climbing caches, diving caches to name but a few: Each can all be an unknown cache, a traditional cache, or a multi-cache. If the cache owner places a Chirp on on an unknown cache what icon does it get? How about a difficult puzzle cache that also has a chirp at GZ? Many (most?) do not include unknown caches in their general PQs because they often require advance work before going to the field. A Chirp may or may not require preliminary work but with the new icon you can't tell. This would be an improvement?

 

5) Even the developer of Chirp does not have a unique icon.

 

6) Icons are not in place to sell equipment. Your statement "That limitation should push users to acquire the gear to enjoy the cache" is exclusive instead of inclusive. (And I'm trying to be polite here.) I think I have only done two Chirp caches and both have offered alternate ways to find them.

 

7) To place the icon on the map requires the cacher to spend money to buy a special device. Almost like requiring a finder to visit a commercial site to find a cache.

 

8) A restatement of 1). There just aren't enough such caches to justify the suggestion nor the time and effort to implement it. I have neither sought them out nor avoided them but have encountered only 2 in over 1200 visits.

 

I'm sure there are others that I have overlooked.

 

This is the kind of input I was looking for and yet this thread did go off on Letterboxing.

 

(1) Regarding the programming work, please understand (or maybe you already figured it out), I am not a programmer but can't imagine constructing a new icon is all that complex or expensive. GS can speak to that if they even consider this idea.

 

(2) I am not sure I am suggesting this new icon would "do something for the hobby" but it would merely separate out technology (very much like the Wherigo) into its own category. Most (that have posted here) seem to think an attribute is all that is needed.

 

(3) Again, I wouldn't consider programming work an obstacle since that is the job of GS to streamline the website, and make updates when new applications arise. Only GS can speak to how easy or difficult that would be and whether it is worth the effort.

 

(4) I understand other gear can cause restrictions to the caching experience. I am talking only about the chirp since it was designed for caching to direct the caching experience. It the idea of this new icon takes shape (which it is not or GS would have handled my inquiry differently) the guidelines for a chirp cache would be developed like the others already have. A chirp to me would be an IP where the chirp is and then the chirp directs you from there. No advance work required. Don't you feel the Wherigo is a great arguement for this idea? Chirp tech is very similar in that a GPS application is required.

 

(5) Icon would be for caches that use the Chirp to get to the final. Not sure what is meant by, "developer doesn't have own icon." Chirp + Cache = icon on GS for cachers to download and search out.

 

(6) This could be a true conflict as I am not sure of the legal implications of GS promoting a tech only developed by one company. Either way people will still buy the chirp and are buying the chirp to include in caches. I myself will soon buy a chirp and put it out. In my area we have about 6-8 chirps. The three I have done have all worked flawlessly (so far). I agree though that this could be considered an exclusive deal with Garmin and thus not doable.

 

(7) Icon or no icon special gear will be purchased by the cacher who enjoys the hobby. If not for caching I would not have purchased three GPS units to date (all Garmin). The reason for the third purchase was for the chirp and Wherigo, better maps, etc.. I am soon to purchase a kayak (borrowing for now). Either way cachers will be pushed to purchase new gear. They will want the gear to maximize enjoyment and caching options.

 

(8) I disagree. My area has a growing amount. Not the most common, don't get me wrong. The tech itself is directing the idea not the volume of caches using the tech to date. Once in icon form it will see some growth. I have sought them out and was delighted when I got a GPS that could read them.

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It seems this thread has digressed into a discussion on Letterbox hybrids. I am not sure why some are adverse to the idea of a new icon. The only reason I can see why the chirp should not be its own icon may relate to a legal restriction. Since it is a Garmin product and nobody has a similar product. However, giving it icon status may encourage other manufacturers to develop other geo ideas. Others are afraid of a an icon proliferation but the icons are controlled by GS. The current icons, at least in my area, are not overproduced by underproduced, save the traditional. I still vote for the chirp to be separated out into its own icon. The main arguement relates to the Wherigo and the similarities of the tech guiding the cache experience. Anyhew, I would consider this thread closed as most have weighed in. Now to purchase a chirp and put out a puzzle cache chirp of my own.

 

Here are other reasons you seem to have missed:

 

1) There is programming work required. The fact that I executed an SQL query to count the attributes in your area has NOTHING to do with the extra programming needed. Your statement "Your PQ kinda makes my point" speaks volumes. With all the current issues that are outstanding for the website, the mobile apps, and the API, any programming dedicated to such a miniscule part of the caching environment is wasted time. One small such item: getting corrected coordinates passed to the GPS automatically via all access methods.

 

2) The new icon would add nothing to the hobby. Please defend your statement it would stimulate interest without discussing icon collecting. Describe other benefits to having an additional icon. They are already searchable by the attribute, so what else does the new icon offer. And with a PQ you can see them on a map to see if there are any nearby.

 

3) Any icon change would also impact all the other applications that connect to GS via the API. Even more programming work.

 

4) Beacon caches are just like kayak caches, technical climbing caches, diving caches to name but a few: Each can all be an unknown cache, a traditional cache, or a multi-cache. If the cache owner places a Chirp on on an unknown cache what icon does it get? How about a difficult puzzle cache that also has a chirp at GZ? Many (most?) do not include unknown caches in their general PQs because they often require advance work before going to the field. A Chirp may or may not require preliminary work but with the new icon you can't tell. This would be an improvement?

 

5) Even the developer of Chirp does not have a unique icon.

 

6) Icons are not in place to sell equipment. Your statement "That limitation should push users to acquire the gear to enjoy the cache" is exclusive instead of inclusive. (And I'm trying to be polite here.) I think I have only done two Chirp caches and both have offered alternate ways to find them.

 

7) To place the icon on the map requires the cacher to spend money to buy a special device. Almost like requiring a finder to visit a commercial site to find a cache.

 

8) A restatement of 1). There just aren't enough such caches to justify the suggestion nor the time and effort to implement it. I have neither sought them out nor avoided them but have encountered only 2 in over 1200 visits.

 

I'm sure there are others that I have overlooked.

 

This is the kind of input I was looking for and yet this thread did go off on Letterboxing.

 

Because it's a good example of #4. Letterbox is a cache type icon that encompasses many cache types. Each can be an unknown cache, a traditional cache, or a multi-cache. It would have been better off as an attribute not a cache type. But now people love their icons and would likely be up in arms if we grandfathered the letterbox hybrid icon. Not because they love letterbox hybrids but because they don't want to lose the icon. They plant letterbox hybrids not because they want to plant a creative art box but because they want to own an icon and provide an icon for icon seekers, for challenge caches, etc. It's a good example of why not to add more icons.

Edited by L0ne R
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