Wheelchair geocachers

[+L0ne.R]

This is a spinoff question generated from another forum discussion where the recurring hypothesis came up that parking lot caches are great for people in wheelchairs.

 

This made me curious about statistics on the number of geocachers whose primary mode of access to geocaches is via a wheelchair.

 

It would be nice to hear from a few wheelchair users about what makes a good geocaching experience for them. If you primarily geocache in a wheelchair, how do you feel about parking lot caches? Do you prefer them? If not, what types of hide techniques and locations do you prefer?

 

(Typo edit)

Edited May 29, 2013 by L0ne R

[+QClan]

I'd really love the information as well.

 

I'm working on planning a multicache that I would love to have available to everyone. I want a fun and exciting and accessible experience.

[+Harrald]

The only advice I can give is the same I gave 10 years ago. The average person doesn't know anything about pushing a wheelchair. What I tell people is....

 

Imagine trying to push a loaded shopping cart along the path you need to use to get to the cache.

 

If you can't push the cart easily along....a wheelchair won't be able to get there.

 

Good luck and thank you for trying to include this into your caches

[Mattyematt]

I'd also like to know, what percentage of geocachers in wheelchairs have a non-wheelchair caching buddy? I'm about to place a hide that can be seen by someone in a wheelchair, but not reached from a seated position. Do I mark it as wheelchair accesible or not?

[+QClan]

I'd also like to know, what percentage of geocachers in wheelchairs have a non-wheelchair caching buddy? I'm about to place a hide that can be seen by someone in a wheelchair, but not reached from a seated position. Do I mark it as wheelchair accesible or not?

I believe the rule is it should be able to be retrieved and replaced from a chair.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

As with any other classification system for humans there is no 'average wheelchair cacher'. We all have different capabilities and determination.

 

Some have no legs, some have 'em but can't walk with them, others have one that works just fine.

 

I am a one-legged 60-something who primarily uses a wheelchair but can walk on crutches.

 

If I can't get there on crutches I have been known to drop to the ground and crawl, pushing myself along with my arms and leg.

 

You can't possibly rate a geocache terrain for me. I've cached in caves and on mountaintops and everywhere in between. It really just depends on how determined I am to get that cache that day.

 

That's pretty much going to be the story for most of us. Thus perhaps the best way to evaluate it is to use the example of a paraplegic... someone with no use of their legs who is dependent on their wheelchair, who cannot walk or stand up but who has full use of their arms. This makes it fairly easy for the able-bodied to generalize and visualize. Could you get the cache sitting in your wheeled office chair without getting out of it? Use that as your standard for what is wheelchair accessible. Of course many of us can go in wheelchairs over some pretty rough terrain, but then you get into the micro assessment of capability and willpower. Stick to the macro (office chair analogy) and you will be safe.

 

I love parking lot caches... but before my heart attacks and neck surgery gone awry I loved those that are a mile up a steep muddy trail, too, so go figure! Good luck!

 

ETA: Check out the rating system at http://www.handicaching.com/

Edited May 30, 2013 by TheAlabamaRambler

[Mattyematt]

Thanks

[Mattyematt]

 

I am a one-legged 60-something who primarily uses a wheelchair but can walk on crutches.

 

If I can't get there on crutches I have been known to drop to the ground and push myself along with my arms.

 

 

This is a seriously awesome attitude! Can someone get this cacher a trophy for going above and beyond?

[+QClan]

As with any other classification system for humans there is no 'average wheelchair cacher'. We all have different capabilities and determination.

 

Some have no legs, some have 'em but can't walk with them, others have one that works just fine.

 

I am a one-legged 60-something who primarily uses a wheelchair but can walk on crutches.

 

If I can't get there on crutches I have been known to drop to the ground and crawl, pushing myself along with my arms and leg.

 

You can't possibly rate a geocache terrain for me. I've cached in caves and on mountaintops and everywhere in between. It really just depends on how determined I am to get that cache that day.

 

That's pretty much going to be the story for most of us. Thus perhaps the best way to evaluate it is to use the example of a paraplegic... someone with no use of their legs who is dependent on their wheelchair, who cannot walk or stand up but who has full use of their arms. This makes it fairly easy for the able-bodied to generalize and visualize. Could you get the cache sitting in your wheeled office chair without getting out of it? Use that as your standard for what is wheelchair accessible. Of course many of us can go in wheelchairs over some pretty rough terrain, but then you get into the micro assessment of capability and willpower. Stick to the macro (office chair analogy) and you will be safe.

 

I love parking lot caches... but before my heart attacks and neck surgery gone awry I loved those that are a mile up a steep muddy trail, too, so go figure! Good luck!

 

ETA: Check out the rating system at http://www.handicachers.com

 

Thanks!

[+Redfist]

As with any other classification system for humans there is no 'average wheelchair cacher'. We all have different capabilities and determination.

 

Some have no legs, some have 'em but can't walk with them, others have one that works just fine.

 

I am a one-legged 60-something who primarily uses a wheelchair but can walk on crutches.

 

If I can't get there on crutches I have been known to drop to the ground and crawl, pushing myself along with my arms and leg.

 

You can't possibly rate a geocache terrain for me. I've cached in caves and on mountaintops and everywhere in between. It really just depends on how determined I am to get that cache that day.

 

That's pretty much going to be the story for most of us. Thus perhaps the best way to evaluate it is to use the example of a paraplegic... someone with no use of their legs who is dependent on their wheelchair, who cannot walk or stand up but who has full use of their arms. This makes it fairly easy for the able-bodied to generalize and visualize. Could you get the cache sitting in your wheeled office chair without getting out of it? Use that as your standard for what is wheelchair accessible. Of course many of us can go in wheelchairs over some pretty rough terrain, but then you get into the micro assessment of capability and willpower. Stick to the macro (office chair analogy) and you will be safe.

 

I love parking lot caches... but before my heart attacks and neck surgery gone awry I loved those that are a mile up a steep muddy trail, too, so go figure! Good luck!

 

ETA: Check out the rating system at http://www.handicaching.com/

 

Very helpful - thanks!

[+YaYa&PaPa]

I do not use a wheelchair but my granddaughter does. She is 14 years old (mentally 3-5 years) and has CP among other problems. She loves to go on outings with her family. Problem is with caches that are park and grabs or just one or two in a park - it takes more time to get her out of the car and into her chair than it does to find the cache. So unless there are several located along wheelchair friendly paths within a park or city she just has to sit in the car with one of her three sisters volunteering to sit with her.

 

We will be doing the Swamp rabbit trail in the upstate of SC later this summer. There is a shop at one end of the trail that rents bikes, they have a bike that she can ride with a parent/sibiling and they rent it for FREE. This way she can geocache with us. We are also looking into purchasing a bike like this for her to have. Here is the rental program for this bike https://www.facebook.com/heathersrideprogram

[+The_Incredibles_]

I'd also like to know, what percentage of geocachers in wheelchairs have a non-wheelchair caching buddy? I'm about to place a hide that can be seen by someone in a wheelchair, but not reached from a seated position. Do I mark it as wheelchair accesible or not?

I believe the rule is it should be able to be retrieved and replaced from a chair.

 

Agreed. This would not be a terrain 1, but probably a 1.5.

[+JKMonkey]

I would imagine that, independently, they could only get 1-2 star terrain difficulty caches because they're the easiest to get to by wheelchair, after that the trek to the cache would probably become dangerous for someone using a wheelchair and alone. In a group of geocachers, I'm sure someone in a wheelchair could get a cache with as much as a 5 star terrain rating so long as they were helped there.

[+K13]

I am a one-legged 60-something who primarily uses a wheelchair but can walk on crutches.

 

If I can't get there on crutches I have been known to drop to the ground and push myself along with my arms.

 

 

This is a seriously awesome attitude! Can someone get this cacher a trophy for going above and beyond?

 

Here you go!

 

Awarded for Going Above and Beyond

[+TeamRabbitRun]

 

I am a one-legged 60-something who primarily uses a wheelchair but can walk on crutches.

 

If I can't get there on crutches I have been known to drop to the ground and push myself along with my arms.

 

 

This is a seriously awesome attitude! Can someone get this cacher a trophy for going <b><i><u>above and beyond?</u></i></b>

 

Shouldn't that be "Below and Beyond"?

 

No disrespect, but you sound like someone who would appreciate the joke.

 

Hat's off to you. In many situations, 'disability' is a label, not necessarily an adjective.

[4wheelin_fool]

There are also many disabled, or limited mobility cachers that do not use wheelchairs. Just think of all of the times you see someone parked in a handicapped spot with a proper plate or tag. Very few have wheelchairs. In fact, I cannot recall the last time I saw someone in a wheelchair using a handicapped spot. Limited mobility does not necessary mean wheelchair.

[+L0ne.R]

There are also many disabled, or limited mobility cachers that do not use wheelchairs. Just think of all of the times you see someone parked in a handicapped spot with a proper plate or tag. Very few have wheelchairs. In fact, I cannot recall the last time I saw someone in a wheelchair using a handicapped spot. Limited mobility does not necessary mean wheelchair.

 

I agree. I was one of those limited mobility folks, for awhile. But I was able to get around enough to walk through short grass, gravel paths, dirt paths too if it didn't have logs that required climbing over. I wasn't quite as limited as someone in a wheelchair because I could walk off trail and retrieve the cache on ground level, as long as it was on relatively flat land. So parking lot caches were not something I needed to do in order to geocache.

 

I'm wondering about the hypothesis that comes up regularly in the forums that parking lots are good places for wheelchair geocachers. First, how many wheelchair geocachers are there? There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of parking lot caches, are any being found by wheelchair geocachers? Are parking lots the primary source of caching for wheelchair cachers? Is parking lot terrain the preferred terrain? If there were no parking lot caches could you continue to geocache?

 

I would love to hear from someone who is wheelchair bound, has a geocaching account, logs their finds and regularly participates in geocache hunts.

Edited May 30, 2013 by L0ne R

[4wheelin_fool]

There are also many disabled, or limited mobility cachers that do not use wheelchairs. Just think of all of the times you see someone parked in a handicapped spot with a proper plate or tag. Very few have wheelchairs. In fact, I cannot recall the last time I saw someone in a wheelchair using a handicapped spot. Limited mobility does not necessary mean wheelchair.

 

I agree. I was one of those limited mobility folks, for awhile. But I was able to get around enough to walk through short grass, gravel paths, dirt paths too if it didn't have logs that required climbing over. I wasn't quite as limited as someone in a wheelchair because I could walk off trail and retrieve the cache on ground level, as long as it was on relatively flat land. So parking lot caches were not something I needed to do in order to geocache.

 

I'm wondering about the hypothesis that comes up regularly in the forums that parking lots are good places for wheelchair geocachers. First, how many wheelchair geocachers are there? There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of parking lot caches, are any being found by wheelchair geocachers? Are parking lots the primary source of caching for wheelchair cachers? Is parking lot terrain the preferred terrain? If there were no parking lot caches could you continue to geocache?

 

I would love to hear from someone who is wheelchair bound, has a geocaching account, logs their finds and regularly participates in geocache hunts.

 

I can recall in 2004 when parking lot caches were an exciting novelty. The first one that I noticed seemed rather humorous. Now they greatly outnumber the amount of limited mobility cachers, and are used as an excuse for that. I don't know, there are plenty of nice places which are wheelchair accessible and not in any asphalt laden parking area..

[+QClan]

There are also many disabled, or limited mobility cachers that do not use wheelchairs. Just think of all of the times you see someone parked in a handicapped spot with a proper plate or tag. Very few have wheelchairs. In fact, I cannot recall the last time I saw someone in a wheelchair using a handicapped spot. Limited mobility does not necessary mean wheelchair.

 

I agree. I was one of those limited mobility folks, for awhile. But I was able to get around enough to walk through short grass, gravel paths, dirt paths too if it didn't have logs that required climbing over. I wasn't quite as limited as someone in a wheelchair because I could walk off trail and retrieve the cache on ground level, as long as it was on relatively flat land. So parking lot caches were not something I needed to do in order to geocache.

 

I'm wondering about the hypothesis that comes up regularly in the forums that parking lots are good places for wheelchair geocachers. First, how many wheelchair geocachers are there? There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of parking lot caches, are any being found by wheelchair geocachers? Are parking lots the primary source of caching for wheelchair cachers? Is parking lot terrain the preferred terrain? If there were no parking lot caches could you continue to geocache?

 

I would love to hear from someone who is wheelchair bound, has a geocaching account, logs their finds and regularly participates in geocache hunts.

 

I can recall in 2004 when parking lot caches were an exciting novelty. The first one that I noticed seemed rather humorous. Now they greatly outnumber the amount of limited mobility cachers, and are used as an excuse for that. I don't know, there are plenty of nice places which are wheelchair accessible and not in any asphalt laden parking area..

 

I promise when I place my accessible cache it won't be in a parking lot, lol.

[+Overgrowncubscout]

I am the able bodied "Buddy" of my son who has CP. Unlike some folks, his abilities are improving rather than deteriorating. I see geocaching as one of the positive factors in his ability to get outside, get exercise, get stronger and more agile.

 

He now can walk using a forearm crutch in one hand while given balance assistance with the other. He can do this for short distances but becomes fatigued easily.

 

We use an "off road" chair that has disk breaks for safely getting up and down steep hills and a kicker peg on the back so I can get the front wheels off the ground to get over rocks, logs, roots etc. We use this for long distance hikes in the woods, but my son makes sure I park the chair and he hikes the last .1 mile at a minimum.

 

Another cacher mentioned the handicacging website. I have entered info on some of my caches on that site, and my son and I even did an accessible cache series. We did it for fun, but also to raise awareness in our community that there is a cacher with physical disabilities in our community. Unfortunately we have not seen the handicacging link on any new listings despite all the favorite points some of the accessible caches received. It's a great site because it answers the question "If I can see it and I can get to it, can I still reach it?"

 

As I mentioned in on other board, my son hates LPC's (I don't care either way) We both truly enjoy trails in the woods with caches just off the trail, just like Groundspeak describes in the geocaching 101 training video we watched a couple years ago.

[+Navigatar]

I have a mobility issue, my legs are losing strength, and when I do stand balance is an issue. I can use a walker, but this is problematic for off trail caches, terrains higher than 1.5. Bracing myself with the walker so I do not fall and getting the cache is tricky. I have a motor chair I use, but terrain is also a question. I have gone through grass, and got stuck in ruts. My girls are avid Geocachers and got their mother and I started. I usually plan trails or caches for the day, but sit in the truck while my wife gets and logs the cache, at times bringing them back to me to see, Very frustrating. While there are places to go that are paved or accessible paths, caches are in these placed are hard to distinguish in the search parameters on the site. IF you know of a search criteria to use I would appreciate the comeback.

Thanks

Navigatar

[RovingTriker]

I'm under the category of limited mobility as well. I have the handicap plays, but don't use a wheelchair (a couple times a year) My problem is balance and coordination, so though I'm new to gc, I plan on using my recumbent trike (hence the user name) to access most of them. I can go off road if needed, as long as the grade isn't too steep, and the trail is wide enough (trike is about 3ft)and not too long.

[+L0ne.R]

I'm under the category of limited mobility as well. I have the handicap plays, but don't use a wheelchair (a couple times a year) My problem is balance and coordination, so though I'm new to gc, I plan on using my recumbent trike (hence the user name) to access most of them. I can go off road if needed, as long as the grade isn't too steep, and the trail is wide enough (trike is about 3ft)and not too long.

 

RovingTriker, Navigator how do you feel about lamp post / parking lot caches? I'm curious to see if the assumption is true, that wheelchair/mobility-restricted cachers like parking lot caches.

 

Regarding terrain, do you find that many people underestimate the terrain? Example giving a steep 45 degree incline a 2 rating.

[RovingTriker]

I'm very very new. I only have one find so far. It was in a park, very close to a bike trail. I went today to what I thought would be a quick parking lot grab. I couldn't find it, but according to logs it was there, must have overlooked it. Also didn't find the other I was after today must have been the rain and feeling rushed.

 

As for terrain, I've only looked for a few, but those have been right on for ratings.

 

From a newb perspective, I wonder how people come up with the difficulty ratings. The one I found, actually walked saw from about 20 feet away, had a higher difficulty than the ones I overlooked.

[+YaYa&PaPa]

Thanks to https://www.facebook.com/heathersrideprogram my granddaughter was able to join her family on a 6 mile bike/cash ride this weekend on the Swamp Rabbit Trail.

She is usually able to not able to participate in these family outings. We are now looking to find/acquire her a bike like this of her own.

There may be programs like this in other areas of the country.

Edited June 11, 2013 by YaYa&PaPa

[+niraD]

From a newb perspective, I wonder how people come up with the difficulty ratings. The one I found, actually walked saw from about 20 feet away, had a higher difficulty than the ones I overlooked.

Well, there are guidelines for the meaning of various difficulty ratings in the Help Center article Ratings for Difficulty and Terrain. But it's still pretty subjective. The descriptions use terms like "average cache hunter" and "experienced cache hunter". Different cache owners have different ideas about what "average" or "experienced" mean, and it's hard to say how long it will take someone else to find your cache, which is the basis for describing most of the difficulty levels.

 

And sometimes it's a matter of luck. I've found D4 caches within minutes, while others have made multiple trips to find the same caches. I've also been one of the people making multiple trips, reading past logs from people who spotted it quickly.

[+thetoxiczone]

I'm very very new. I only have one find so far. It was in a park, very close to a bike trail. I went today to what I thought would be a quick parking lot grab. I couldn't find it, but according to logs it was there, must have overlooked it. Also didn't find the other I was after today must have been the rain and feeling rushed.

 

As for terrain, I've only looked for a few, but those have been right on for ratings.

 

From a newb perspective, I wonder how people come up with the difficulty ratings. The one I found, actually walked saw from about 20 feet away, had a higher difficulty than the ones I overlooked.

When I have posted my caches there was a link that gave a rating guide. Try this http://www.geocaching.com/hide/rate.aspx

[+Amethyst Moon]

I'm very happy to see this. My 5 year old can't walk without a walker, so caching requires her chair, but I usually go when she is at school when it's a place I've never been.

[+Redfist]

I'm very happy to see this. My 5 year old can't walk without a walker, so caching requires her chair, but I usually go when she is at school when it's a place I've never been.

 

This sport should be for everyone! Clever hides in accessible places, clever hides in difficult places. Clever puzzles with an accessible hide. Clever puzzles with a brutal hike. Etc.

 

I hope more and more people do take this to heart and hide "good hides" that are accessible. People who are mostly confined to a chair shouldn't have LPCs as their only caching opportunities.

[+Trucker Lee]

Good thread going here, now you got me thinking without my wife's permission. Dangerous for all.

 

We have a daughter who uses a wheelchair after an auto accident. She can roll to a point and then stand, problem is the spinal cord damage just makes walking next to impossible. I got to thinking of my hides, and of them all I can think of only 1 I have placed that would be accessible as it is along a sidewalk with ramps at the corners.

 

Our community hosts a junk sale each month bringing folks from far and wide. As I think of more caches to place, I hereby pledge that I will try to locate those at least half to be accessible for the mobility impaired. I realize that this will make placement more difficult, but why should the challenge of caching be in finding only?

 

Edit to add..... LPC placed for mobility impaired are not a good idea. I have seen you go across that parking lot, and you can't see a chair user around the parked cars.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Trucker Lee

[+TeamRabbitRun]

GI realize that this will make placement more difficult, but why should the challenge of caching be in finding only?

 

+1

[+Navigatar]

I'm under the category of limited mobility as well. I have the handicap plays, but don't use a wheelchair (a couple times a year) My problem is balance and coordination, so though I'm new to gc, I plan on using my recumbent trike (hence the user name) to access most of them. I can go off road if needed, as long as the grade isn't too steep, and the trail is wide enough (trike is about 3ft)and not too long.

 

RovingTriker, Navigator how do you feel about lamp post / parking lot caches? I'm curious to see if the assumption is true, that wheelchair/mobility-restricted cachers like parking lot caches.

 

Regarding terrain, do you find that many people underestimate the terrain? Example giving a steep 45 degree incline a 2 rating.

[+Navigatar]

Sorry it took so long for the reply, I do not check back or forgotten where I've been. I think there should be an H-Rating, for Handicap in some way. We all perceive things differently. Like the 45 degree incline, or bushwhacking. I know light post hides are boring and do not leave much to the imagination. But that is what some people can collect. I had checked online for handicap cache program, the only one I found was a site that required putting the code in for the one your going to, to see if it is handicap assessable BUMMER.

 

I was out with my family, and had to stay in my Go-Chair to cache, one of seven was actually at wheelchair hieght.

 

Keep up the good fight.

 

Navigatar

Edited November 30, 2013 by Navigatar

[+JesandTodd]

My BIGGEST pet peeve in geocaching in the T=1 caches. If you have your cache labeled T1 so help me, it better be findable, retrievable, and replaceable someone in a WC.

Period.

 

And I will make note of it in my log on every cache I come upon that's labeled T1 and doesn't comply.

 

I used to be just "miffed" at these types of caches, but one time I gouged my leg with a pair of dirty hemostats (gross) and had to be on crutches for 2 weeks. It opened my eyes. The T1 rating is *more* misused than the T5...

[+WarNinjas]

Glad to see some responses from some who are or know or have kids that are wheelchair caching. My daughter and I place a lot of hard terrain caches and often talk about adding some for people in a wheelchair. My nephew was blown up in the PG&E pipeline explosion and we took him to some caches after and can see how hard it is not to be able to get to the cache yourself. He could now probably do a 2.5 but if he was not in that accident would be able to go to them all, even though he don't say it you can tell it has to bother him. We do place some easier terrain caches just for this reason but are usually hesitant to mark it a 1 terrain. We would feel bad if someone with a disability was excited to see a 1 terrain and then couldn't get to it. We mark them a 1.5 and hope they can go there and actually get to it and feel some accomplishment. I also agree there should be some creative ones out there for everyone to find so all of us who can work on doing this should try and make an effort if possible. There is no reason they should all be lamp post caches.

[+tango501]

I'd also like to know, what percentage of geocachers in wheelchairs have a non-wheelchair caching buddy? I'm about to place a hide that can be seen by someone in a wheelchair, but not reached from a seated position. Do I mark it as wheelchair accesible or not?

 

I dont think so, thinking if it is not completely accessible (meaning reachable too) that it should not have the attribute.

Thinking if I was going to launch one and using the attribute I would find a good location then actually place it using a

wheelchair.

 

One other thought is if you used the wheel attribute but it was not reachable, you could add the TOTT attribute and specify in

listing that a grabber tool was needed.

 

ok, there is my 2 cents worth