If a Benchmark is Labeled "Reset" is the Original Gone?

[+Thot]

I do a little benchmarking (not much) but I have questions I haven't figured out the answers to. I'll start with this one:

 

When there's a benchmark labeled "Reset" does this automatically mean the original no longer exists (has been destroyed, removed, paved over, etc.)?

 

If so, why does the mark with the original name still appear in the list?

Edited May 29, 2013 by Thot

[TillaMurphs]

Hi Thot,

 

Very good question.

 

When there is a RESET mark it does not automatically mean that there original mark is destroyed. However, in most situations the RESET is established because the original was destroyed or there was an assumption that it would be destroyed soon.

 

So most of the time, but not always, when there is a RESET the original is gone.

 

The original mark might still appear in the database either because no one officially reported the original as destroyed, or there is the rare situation where it might still exist. Are you looking at a current copy of the NGS database or geocaching’s very old archived version?

 

If you tell us which mark you were looking at maybe we can help.

 

Have fun!

[+Thot]

I think my copy of the database is about 18 months old. There are several of these pairs near me. Here are a couple:

 

AW2755 Z 640

AW1308 Z 640 RESET

 

AW2756 K 646

AW1309 K 646 RESET

[Bill93]

It looks like AW2755 and AW2756 were probably threatened by a road widening project in 1949 so the reset was done. Check the distance from the road on the originals and the resets.

 

I'd almost bet that the recent Power Squadron reports on the originals are the result of seeing the RESET disks and not understanding what they found. You have an opportunity to check this out and if the original location falls in the reworked area of the road and no disk is seen, report a NOT FOUND with explanation.

 

I know of at least one pair of disks where a RESET was done before the original on a building was hidden by a covering, but now the covering is gone and both disks are easily seen.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Bill93

[Z15]

Sometimes a RESET is established simply because the original is deteriorating, in a vulnerable location, not accessible (buried, private etc) or planned construction, new road, bridge etc may disturb/destroy the mark. In my days as Survey Tech at state DOT I reset / moved many BM's. Sometimes the NGS state advisor would ask us to go move one for whatever reason he deemed necessary. I know of several that I reset as well as what NGS reset that the original is still in place because the risk to losing the mark never came to pass.

 

Often times with road /bridge construction, the decision to RESET a mark has to be made well in advance (a year or more) and sometimes plans change and the original mark survives.

 

Also, on a few occassions we RESET a BM solely to transfer an elevation over so we could use the new RESET mark for GPS control because we needed a first order elevation to constrain the project adjustment. The original was not able to be occupied by GPS. In a building or blocked sky. That was before OPUS and CORS.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Z15

[kayakbird]

I believe that this one was reset, original concrete post and all.

 

Road Project, Carter Co Montana

 

Just drove past while on a rainy, windy, birding trip to eastern Montana (did not stop for a re-recovery!). Lots of birds, had to chain up my 2-WD pickup twice. MEL

[AZcachemeister]

Typically a RESET will indicate the original was destroyed, but not always.

[+Thot]

Typically a RESET will indicate the original was destroyed, but not always.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the existence of a RESET indicates the original was destroyed? Or, do you mean the Description of the RESET will typically state that the original has been destroyed?

Edited June 10, 2013 by Thot

[+shorbird]

See JY0714 and JY1214 for an example of an original benchmark and the RESET benchmark, both of which still exist. The original is set in a bridge abutment and the RESET is set in the base of a signal light.

 

Another example of a RESET is MA0931. In this case, the concrete post with the original disk was reset in the ground because the post was unstable. No new disk was used.

 

MOST of the time, as mentioned previously, if you see an original benchmark and a RESET in the listing of benchmarks, the original is no longer there. But it never hurts to check!

[AZcachemeister]

Typically a RESET will indicate the original was destroyed, but not always.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the existence of a RESET indicates the original was destroyed? Or, do you mean the Description of the RESET will typically state that the original has been destroyed?

 

Sometimes the description of the RESET will state why it was done, but what I meant was that if the mark is labeled 'F247 RESET' it usually means 'F247' was destroyed.

[andylphoto]

Great replies already here. I have seen a number of stations reset due to road construction. Several sections of highway have been widened in my area over the last 15 years. In these areas, there were a number of bench marks set in rock outcroppings along the roadway. In these cases, marks were reset, because plans called for the destruction of the original marks.

 

Because I was actively searching at the time and kept my eyes open, I found a number of the resets. In one construction project, there were several marks reset where plans changed. Instead of blasting the rock outcroppings back from the edge of the roadway, guard rails were instead installed. In these cases, there is an original mark, intact and in the database, and also a reset mark. The resets have not witness post, and (last I bothered to check) were not in the database. An example would be K 329:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=RK0460

 

The reset mark still exists, but the original was preserved when a guard rail was installed. In this area, as memory serves, resets were placed for RK0457, RK0458, RK0460, and RK0464. Of these, RK0458 was the only one actually destroyed. The rest (along with RK0459, which I don't believe was reset) were preserved when guardrails were installed. The destruction has been noted in the datasheet for RK0458:

 

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=RK0458

 

But none of the reset marks have been added to the database.

 

Conversely, two construction projects west of this area saw a number of marks destroyed as rock outcroppings were blasted back from the roadway in the 2000s. Several, if not all, were reset, but the resets have not made their way into the database. There are datasheets for the original marks, but the original marks have been destroyed. The Reset marks exist, but the database does not contain datasheets for them. An example is RL1462:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=RL1462

[Z15]

Great replies already here. I have seen a number of stations reset due to road construction. Several sections of highway have been widened in my area over the last 15 years. In these areas, there were a number of bench marks set in rock outcroppings along the roadway. In these cases, marks were reset, because plans called for the destruction of the original marks.

 

Because I was actively searching at the time and kept my eyes open, I found a number of the resets. In one construction project, there were several marks reset where plans changed. Instead of blasting the rock outcroppings back from the edge of the roadway, guard rails were instead installed. In these cases, there is an original mark, intact and in the database, and also a reset mark. The resets have not witness post, and (last I bothered to check) were not in the database. An example would be K 329:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=RK0460

 

The reset mark still exists, but the original was preserved when a guard rail was installed. In this area, as memory serves, resets were placed for RK0457, RK0458, RK0460, and RK0464. Of these, RK0458 was the only one actually destroyed. The rest (along with RK0459, which I don't believe was reset) were preserved when guardrails were installed. The destruction has been noted in the datasheet for RK0458:

 

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=RK0458

 

But none of the reset marks have been added to the database.

 

Conversely, two construction projects west of this area saw a number of marks destroyed as rock outcroppings were blasted back from the roadway in the 2000s. Several, if not all, were reset, but the resets have not made their way into the database. There are datasheets for the original marks, but the original marks have been destroyed. The Reset marks exist, but the database does not contain datasheets for them. An example is RL1462:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=RL1462

The Survey section at the DOT have been decimated in recent years. 95% of thier work force is seasonal, college engineering interns or reassignments.

 

The mindset supervising the constructon work is only concerned with building the road and moving on. There are some at the management level who feel that these survey marks are not a priority but a waste of manhours/$$$ as does most of the public. Lots of the survey preservation work has been contracted out and its at the mercy of the contractors (road construction co's and engineering consultants) who mostly have the same mindset. Project is done, we got paid and now don't need you anymore so, you are laid off.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Z15