What Irks you most?

9.2k · February 15, 2023

13 hours ago, Gill & Tony said:

When I finally qualify is the date that I can claim the find. Logging the find on that date does two things. First, my cache-to-cache distance statistic is incorrect, which bothers nobody but me. It also suggests to other cachers that the cache is safe and sound and in place on that date, which it may or may not be. I have fallen foul of that more than once

Ditto on both. For the cache-to-cache distance I now make use of travelbugs, one represents my phone, which visits every cache, in the order I log them - or post a note. When I log a past challenge signed as finally qualified, it's via the website and I don't visit the TB. Challenges have really changed that aspect of sequential logs.

For the 2nd, I'm the same, and log on qualifying for the challenge. So when looking up past logs on challenges I'm physically searching for, I know that Finds don't necessarily mean a physical visit. I end up putting less weight on the log type when scrolling. It can be a tedious task to scan logs for the last actual physical visit to the cache. It's especially prevalent on one challenge out west in the US that's a pre-moratorium photo-taking challenge, where the requirement is post one photo per note to the cache, and you need 30 photos. Extremely annoying when you're trying to find someone's actual log from visiting the geocache, when 95%+ of the logs are bare photo posts, combined with Find logs from people who signed in years ago and today qualified. (GC1HWC1) But that's a rare exception and only because it's pre-moratorium.

Nonetheless, I classify challenge caches differently when looking the log history, precisely because of that note+find dynamic that changes what a "Found It" log means in the cache's context.

2.7k · February 19, 2023

4 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

One of my pet irks is DNF logs like this one I received yesterday that provide no information at all...

The last find on the cache was over a month ago so I guess it's possible it's gone missing, but it's also fairly well hidden and the undergrowth around it has become a lot thicker after our three very wet la Nina years. Maybe they just gave up because it was too hot and humid, as yesterday was our hottest day this year. I suppose I should really go and check, but getting to it from here is a ferry trip across Broken Bay, a 2km hike to the base of the headland then a 100 metre climb to the top, so a cache check normally takes me about five hours.

I'd wait for the next logger for confirmation.

February 19, 2023

13 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

One of my pet irks is DNF logs like this one I received yesterday that provide no information at all...

The last find on the cache was over a month ago so I guess it's possible it's gone missing, but it's also fairly well hidden and the undergrowth around it has become a lot thicker after our three very wet la Nina years. Maybe they just gave up because it was too hot and humid, as yesterday was our hottest day this year. I suppose I should really go and check, but getting to it from here is a ferry trip across Broken Bay, a 2km hike to the base of the headland then a 100 metre climb to the top, so a cache check normally takes me about five hours.

How do you know it wasn't accidental? I find the official app to be, ummmm, not so user-friendly. Easily you could open a log to write it and accidentally send it. Or maybe it's the equivalent of "TFTC" which irks me... but I get that logging in the field makes for a lot shorter logs. Hence I almost never do it. I don't know many COs who feel the need to check after one DNF. Maybe yes if the logger has thousands of finds, but I see a ton of DNFs from inexperienced or newbie cachers, just the same as - and this REALLY irks me - logs as finds by people who clearly did NOT find it. In fact, I started watching a new virtual the other day and after the FTF yesterday a new log came through today. It said ":)" and that's it. The ONLY logging requirement was to post a photo of yourself or your GPS or TB or whatever *at* GZ. No photo. Person had 4 finds. There's just a lot of people who do not bother reading the instructions before logging things. I best not rant about all the people who log finds they didn't... ugh. Could get ugly indeed. (And why bother? Why log something you didn't find?!) Sorry for the rant-y reply... perfect storm of "find" logs I've been seeing lately.

Edited February 19, 2023 by CCFwasG

3.5k · February 19, 2023

18 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

One of my pet irks is DNF logs like this one I received yesterday that provide no information at all...

The last find on the cache was over a month ago so I guess it's possible it's gone missing, but it's also fairly well hidden and the undergrowth around it has become a lot thicker after our three very wet la Nina years. Maybe they just gave up because it was too hot and humid, as yesterday was our hottest day this year. I suppose I should really go and check, but getting to it from here is a ferry trip across Broken Bay, a 2km hike to the base of the headland then a 100 metre climb to the top, so a cache check normally takes me about five hours.

Most of my DNF logs just say "Didn't find it." I looked for it and didn't find it; what else is there to say? If there's some obvious reason that it can't be found, such as the entire area has been dug up as a construction site, I'll mention that, but mostly I just didn't find it.

4.7k · February 19, 2023

2 hours ago, NanCycle said:

Most of my DNF logs just say "Didn't find it." I looked for it and didn't find it; what else is there to say? If there's some obvious reason that it can't be found, such as the entire area has been dug up as a construction site, I'll mention that, but mostly I just didn't find it.

I rarely only put DNF. I've had three DNFs on my present road trip.

1. My GPS had me at a place with fallen tree branches and tall weeds; no "bush", but I still searched there. Then I moved to the nearest bush a few metres away. Still no find. Travelling to Victoria, so moved on, rather than spend more time here. Lots of pretty white blossom, and the creek was flowing. DNF!

("Bush" was the hint. This tells them there might be a problem with the coordinates. The next person also had a DNF, and from their comment I suspect the coordinates are out, maybe quite a bit.)

2. Neither nanos or engines are my caching favourites, so I only searched for a few, short minutes. I did though enjoy the great shade here. DNF. (Well, that says what it says, I wasn't willing to spend the time here. Besides it was in the sun and 36C. I didn't put that, but the CO should know that last bit.)

3. This was to be my DNF for the day. I checked every corner, inside and out, high and low, several times, and other objects, but all was to no avail. DNF! (The hint was very misleading, but from the nice helpful message the CO sent me, I'm not sure they realise that.)

DNF only is not helpful.

February 21, 2023

On 2/19/2023 at 2:30 PM, NanCycle said:

Most of my DNF logs just say "Didn't find it." I looked for it and didn't find it; what else is there to say? If there's some obvious reason that it can't be found, such as the entire area has been dug up as a construction site, I'll mention that, but mostly I just didn't find it.

I'm not quite as particular as the others maybe, but if I log a DNF and I think it might be there and just me missing it then I put something simple like 'bad luck' or 'my caching eyes must be at home' etc. If I think it really has an issue I will write a longer message about why I DNFd.

FWIW, I got a reminder tonight about something that hugely irks me: being asked by a CO that I don't know to give them a favorite point! (And it's a sure way to NOT get one from me.)

4.7k · February 21, 2023

2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

when top points were given for finding caches with 50+ FPs

I only own one cache with more than 50 favourite points.GC847R1

This is weighed heavily to urban caches in some countries. I mean as per example, another of mine GC4CB12, is an urban cache here in Canberra, but although 42% of people have given it a favourite tick, and it's been published for ten years (on average nine finds a year), it's 'obviously' :rolleyes: underperforming as it hasn't made 50 favourite points. Some countries have LOTS MORE geocachers than others, to give favourite points! Percentage would have been the less discriminatory thing to go by.

9.2k · February 21, 2023

I've only passively asked / reminded about FPs on Virtuals or ECs of mine. It is possible some people forget especially if their log is very praising of the experience. I've always found it kind of pretentious to unilaterally say if a cacher asks for a FP then they get none. I've sometimes logged an amazing cache and forgotten to give a FP. So that kind of dismissal irks me.

Now I won't reply to a new log saying "Hey can you give my cache a FP?? ppplz!" But on that Virtual or EC where they've already sent me a message with answers and logged a very positive experience, I may include in my response just a nudge something like "hey and if you really had a great experience, I hope you'll consider awarding a FP" if they haven't already. I think that's perfectly reasonable, not begging, and not poking around just to get 'points'. :omnomnom:

13.9k · February 21, 2023

6 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

I've only passively asked / reminded about FPs on Virtuals or ECs of mine. It is possible some people forget especially if their log is very praising of the experience. I've always found it kind of pretentious to unilaterally say if a cacher asks for a FP then they get none. I've sometimes logged an amazing cache and forgotten to give a FP. So that kind of dismissal irks me.

We used to get mails from COs saying similar..."you liked it a lot, but you didn't...", and I disregard them.

We might find a few caches that we really liked that day, and one of them might have stood out.

If you want me to tell you why I picked one over yours I'd be happy to... :laughing:

I haven't logged carpy caches in some time. "Points" don't mean anything to me, now that the other 2/3rds not active.

- Telling someone their baby's ugly never goes well, and from past experiences, an honest log isn't worth the hassle.

So the majority of caches found we really enjoyed, and I write nice logs saying how much I enjoyed each one.

That doesn't mean they're all getting a FP...

1.5k · February 21, 2023

I often write in a log, that it was a nice cache or that I specifically liked some aspect of it (scenery, hiding style, whatever). But that doesn't mean that I automatically give an FP to it. But it happens, and I'm always a bit annoyed then, that a CO asks for an FP after such logs. Do these COs think, that overall cache quality is so low, that 90% of the caches I find just suck ?

February 21, 2023

Here's something that irks me, when someone *not quite* follows my virtual cache instructions by messaging me a photo instead of posting it on the log. I tried to create an easily manageable virtual. My instructions are as follows:

Quote

Logging requirements

You must physically visit the given coordinates on the New Hope-Lambertville Bridge, where you will find the painted border between New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

You must take a photo of yourself or your team (or if you're shy, your GPS device) at the given coordinates, which must include the painted state border. Be creative and have fun with it!

Logging a find without posting the required photo in the log within 24 hours will result in a deleted log.

If someone messages me a photo without posting it, I'll kindly remind them that the logging requirements are to post the photo, not message it to me, and I'll even send a link to their log with an offer to help if they need help posting their photo.

I should just delete the logs but then I feel bad, especially since they did take the photo and I did see it. But others who are looking at the logs don't know I've received the log and might think I'm just letting people get away with logging the cache without a photo.

This thread is inspiring me to :

1) Message the people who didn't post a photo

2) Explain that they haven't yet posted their photo and that I will delete their log in 24 hours if they don't

3) Include a link to their log and invite them to relog it with the photo if I delete it

Thoughts?

1.7k · February 21, 2023

1 hour ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

Here's something that irks me, when someone *not quite* follows my virtual cache instructions by messaging me a photo instead of posting it on the log. I tried to create an easily manageable virtual. My instructions are as follows:

Logging requirements

You must physically visit the given coordinates on the New Hope-Lambertville Bridge, where you will find the painted border between New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

You must take a photo of yourself or your team (or if you're shy, your GPS device) at the given coordinates, which must include the painted state border. Be creative and have fun with it!

Logging a find without posting the required photo in the log within 24 hours will result in a deleted log.

If someone messages me a photo without posting it, I'll kindly remind them that the logging requirements are to post the photo, not message it to me, and I'll even send a link to their log with an offer to help if they need help posting their photo.

I should just delete the logs but then I feel bad, especially since they did take the photo and I did see it. But others who are looking at the logs don't know I've received the log and might think I'm just letting people get away with logging the cache without a photo.

This thread is inspiring me to :

1) Message the people who didn't post a photo

2) Explain that they haven't yet posted their photo and that I will delete their log in 24 hours if they don't

3) Include a link to their log and invite them to relog it with the photo if I delete it

Thoughts?

Those three steps are the right way to handle it. I think being a CO should involve more than just monitoring a cache for maintenance; you should also be the steward of the experience you want finders to have. If that means nudging them a little, fine. Keep a boilerplate text note on your computer to copy rather than make it up every time, especially if you need multiple versions.

If it's too much for you, consider scaling back your ownership.

Full disclosure: I DID that New Hope/Lambertville cache, and me & the Team Cap'n properly posted our picture. So there!

Edited February 21, 2023 by TeamRabbitRun
I can't type.

February 21, 2023

1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Full disclosure: I DID that New Hope/Lambertville cache, and me & the Team Cap'n properly posted our picture. So there!

Oops, I already deleted your log!

I'm only kidding! It's fun to see someone from the forums log one of my caches so I remember you (properly) logging the cache.

4.7k · February 21, 2023

10 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

that it was going to be awarded a FP

I've had a few logs also like that, but no favourite point.

9.2k · February 22, 2023

18 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

From the other perspective, most of the caches I've done have been pretty good experiences, but I can only give FPs to a tenth of them no matter how good they all are, so nine out of ten have to miss out.

In my area there are SO MANY power trails and series that the vast majority of them are not generally considered FP-worthy, so most people have an abundance of FPs to give away because we could collect quite a few just on a short trail hike.

When I include a reminder about FPs IF a user has expressed a very positive log text, it's never a request (like "please award a FP") but more a passive reminder type request ("Thanks for your answers....If you felt I it worth one, perhaps consider...") And if they don't, I never come back to 'remind' again. From what I can tell, more often than not (it's not that common anyway), an FP has then been given.

But these days I don't do any of that much anyway... it was only really more relevant at the beginning of the Virtual/EC lives. Don't ask me why. I stopped keeping track. My point was really that I don't see any harm in offering a respectable reminder (not a demand) if it seemed like the logger would have given one by their log, and I wouldn't deny one on principle merely because a CO contacted me to ask nicely (nor is that I guaranteed I'd give one).

10 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

I think being a CO should involve more than just monitoring a cache for maintenance; you should also be the steward of the experience you want finders to have. If that means nudging them a little, fine. Keep a boilerplate text note on your computer to copy rather than make it up every time, especially if you need multiple versions.

Yep, that's what I do. Variants for newer vs veteran cachers in response to EC/Virtual submissions. And if the FP thing is in it, I never demand, I always ask politely or remind. You never know what someone's going through. And especially if they're a new user, a blunt, bold demand could really turn someone off, while a pleasant word - while it could be ignored - generally won't be seen as bitter or angry or hostile, and could greatly encourage someone in the hobby.

February 22, 2023

14 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

Here's something that irks me, when someone *not quite* follows my virtual cache instructions by messaging me a photo instead of posting it on the log. I tried to create an easily manageable virtual. My instructions are as follows:

If someone messages me a photo without posting it, I'll kindly remind them that the logging requirements are to post the photo, not message it to me, and I'll even send a link to their log with an offer to help if they need help posting their photo.

I should just delete the logs but then I feel bad, especially since they did take the photo and I did see it. But others who are looking at the logs don't know I've received the log and might think I'm just letting people get away with logging the cache without a photo.

<snip>

I post a note saying that I've seen X's photos. I've seen that done a couple of times by other people and, for me, it works just to demonstrate I'm keeping an eye on things.

February 22, 2023

2 minutes ago, Blue Square Thing said:

I post a note saying that I've seen X's photos. I've seen that done a couple of times by other people and, for me, it works just to demonstrate I'm keeping an eye on things.

I receved a message with a good photo and a nice text but no found log on the cache. I explained and three days later the cache was loged with the current (=wrong) date, a not so good photo and a very short logtext. I tried again in friendly words - but in vain - to explain what the apparently "smartphone only"-person should do.

So I ended up similar to what you did: I made a note on the correct date explaing the situation but I also included the good photo and text I received with the message. I left the wrong dated log since I'm sure the cacher who has a modest find rate would not understand the deletion (or would log again with an even wronger date )

So my irk goes mainly towards the crippled app but also a bit to the unwillingness or inability of users (at least then when friendly asked) to use the webpage.

February 22, 2023

9 hours ago, Hynz said:

I receved a message with a good photo and a nice text but no found log on the cache. I explained and three days later the cache was loged with the current (=wrong) date, a not so good photo and a very short logtext. I tried again in friendly words - but in vain - to explain what the apparently "smartphone only"-person should do.

So I ended up similar to what you did: I made a note on the correct date explaing the situation but I also included the good photo and text I received with the message. I left the wrong dated log since I'm sure the cacher who has a modest find rate would not understand the deletion (or would log again with an even wronger date )

So my irk goes mainly towards the crippled app but also a bit to the unwillingness or inability of users (at least then when friendly asked) to use the webpage.

Otoh, there are also enough cache owners who can't handle the placed date field on virtual rewards...

As for the app, I used it for the first time in ages (years) today - I have a cache (of mine) that I can rarely find at the best of times - but, yeah, I understand the issue there.

4.7k · February 23, 2023

On 2/22/2023 at 5:05 AM, baer2006 said:

that a CO asks for an FP after such logs

I have never been asked to give a favourite point.

1.4k · February 23, 2023

On a couple of occasions a log said that they would give a FP, but didn't. Then I asked if they had changed their mind and got an "oops, forgot". I would never ask for one out of the blue.

2.7k · February 23, 2023

4 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I have never been asked to give a favourite point.

Neither have I.

February 27, 2023

23 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I just got another one, this time on a 3/3 7-stage multi from a newbie PM with 6 finds under their belt...

That cache was last found in July, followed soon after by a visit from me to confirm a missing trackable, but it only got two finds last year and three the year before so it doesn't see a lot of traffic and its hiding place is very unlikely to be disturbed by muggles. It's a pretty tough slog in the hot humid weather we're having now, which is why I prefer to do my routine visits during winter, and yesterday when they DNFed it, it was probably our hottest day this summer. I can't help thinking they only searched at the listed coordinates because that's where their phone pointed them, but who knows? A DNF log just saying "DNF" is not helpful to anyone, particularly on a higher terrain non-traditional, as there are so many ways to not find it which may or may not need a check from the CO.

this looks like a teaching opportunity.

February 28, 2023

On 2/23/2023 at 3:30 AM, Gill & Tony said:

On a couple of occasions a log said that they would give a FP, but didn't. Then I asked if they had changed their mind and got an "oops, forgot". I would never ask for one out of the blue.

I'm ok with that but that's because if I am going to give an FP I will *always* say that in my log. And if I forget they can mention it, but being asked out of the blue... nope. Like others pointed out, I can only give FPs (ok with the recent exception) for 1 of every 10 finds. Some days I do 5 great caches (scarletsapphire, I'm looking at you!) and I run out. Some days I do 20 and none were stellar. I always try to write stories in my logs and be complimentary where it's deserved. I try to save FPs for really great caches that either took me someplace special or were crafted really really cleverly or well. On power trails I wouldn't probably but for geoart I try to give one FP for every 10 finds, since those are hard work and often quite clever.

February 28, 2023

9 hours ago, CCFwasG said:

I'm ok with that but that's because if I am going to give an FP I will *always* say that in my log. And if I forget they can mention it, but being asked out of the blue... nope. Like others pointed out, I can only give FPs (ok with the recent exception) for 1 of every 10 finds. Some days I do 5 great caches (scarletsapphire, I'm looking at you!) and I run out. Some days I do 20 and none were stellar. I always try to write stories in my logs and be complimentary where it's deserved. I try to save FPs for really great caches that either took me someplace special or were crafted really really cleverly or well. On power trails I wouldn't probably but for geoart I try to give one FP for every 10 finds, since those are hard work and often quite clever.

I’m exactly the same, right down to the scarletsapphire thing! I do mostly high quality caches, so I am usually low on FPs. I don’t do enough regular caches to earn very many. I also mention in my log that I’m leaving one, and I give one to the final of a geoart, at least, when I do those. I don’t like being invited to leave a FP - I am always evaluating whether I should leave one as I’m writing my log.

February 28, 2023

4 hours ago, RecipeForDisaster said:

I’m exactly the same, right down to the scarletsapphire thing! I do mostly high quality caches, so I am usually low on FPs. I don’t do enough regular caches to earn very many. I also mention in my log that I’m leaving one, and I give one to the final of a geoart, at least, when I do those. I don’t like being invited to leave a FP - I am always evaluating whether I should leave one as I’m writing my log.

Not only is scarletsapphire great at constructing really terrific and well-made gadgets and other caches, but many are super clever, AND he is one of the best COs with maintenance I have ever encountered. (I did say "he", I remember being surprised at his real name, having assumed the caching name was a "she"... another 'never assume' lesson!)

Active COs who don't do maintenance can be added to my "irk" list. :-)

March 3, 2023

On 2/21/2023 at 10:23 AM, GeoElmo6000 said:

Here's something that irks me, when someone *not quite* follows my virtual cache instructions by messaging me a photo instead of posting it on the log. I tried to create an easily manageable virtual. My instructions are as follows:

If someone messages me a photo without posting it, I'll kindly remind them that the logging requirements are to post the photo, not message it to me, and I'll even send a link to their log with an offer to help if they need help posting their photo.

I should just delete the logs but then I feel bad, especially since they did take the photo and I did see it. But others who are looking at the logs don't know I've received the log and might think I'm just letting people get away with logging the cache without a photo.

This thread is inspiring me to :

1) Message the people who didn't post a photo

2) Explain that they haven't yet posted their photo and that I will delete their log in 24 hours if they don't

3) Include a link to their log and invite them to relog it with the photo if I delete it

Thoughts?

Well, I'm one of those people who does not like his photo taken, and also my phone is both camera and GPS device so it cannot take a photo of itself.

As a result, I have a nametag I use for events and just take a photo of that. No CO has ever rejected this idea, but I suppose that's often not what the requirement are stated as in most write-ups.

March 3, 2023

8 minutes ago, mysterion604 said:

Well, I'm one of those people who does not like his photo taken, and also my phone is both camera and GPS device so it cannot take a photo of itself.

As a result, I have a nametag I use for events and just take a photo of that. No CO has ever rejected this idea, but I suppose that's often not what the requirement are stated as in most write-ups.

I think the idea of a silly pose or a picture of a name tag or piece of paper with you ID on it is really the way to go.

I changed my requirements for my virtual after the first few did not follow my requirements and I could not tell if they visited when they found it or visited years ago and grabbed an old picture. I did not want to police folks who may have simply not understood my requirements or something. Now it is clear and your trip to remote location 10 years ago does not qualify.

March 3, 2023

People who log micro sized paper logs with a stamp and take up three lines of space (or more) when space for signing is already limited.

9.2k · March 3, 2023

16 hours ago, LisaWisa said:

People who log micro sized paper logs with a stamp and take up three lines of space (or more) when space for signing is already limited.

OR A STICKER, which crumples and folds and comes loose and takes up WAY too much space in a micro... irk!

12k · March 4, 2023

Grrrrrrrrr. HUGE irk. Three of us searched and searched for a cache that had NOT been placed yet. We really expanded our search for the "regular size" to no avail. Very frustrating.

March 5, 2023

Geocachers who tell what the cache container is or takes a photo of the container and post it in their log. Seen/had it done by many a new cacher. If there are rules for hiding a cache shouldn't there be etiquette rules for finding and logging, too?

4.7k · March 5, 2023

On 3/3/2023 at 11:45 AM, MNTA said:

or piece of paper with you ID on it is really the way to go.

Anyone can visit and hold that piece of paper with a name up for you. Even write it for you. You don't need to be there yourself. How does a name on a piece of paper prove anything? I had a log rejected because I didn't have that piece of paper. My hand and GPS were not proof enough. Well, they are more proof than the name written by your friend when you weren't there.

GC9P6E6

I added the wattle picture later.

2.7k · March 5, 2023

Received this message a couple of days ago which, rightly or wrongly, sent shivers up my spine. Would appreciate suggestions on how to handle this one.

"Regarding Bison Trail #15 (GC4R3RH):
Hey colleda. I am a scout leader and am introducing my scouts to geocaching in a couple weeks and plan on having them walk this end of the bison trail. I have already found the majority of the caches on the bison trail but am having difficulty locating this cache. Any tips you can offer would be wonderful. Just want to know what I’m looking for before I bring the scouts out here"

I checked "scout leader's" profile and he/she appears a legit geocacher - 500+ finds.

2.7k · March 5, 2023

28 minutes ago, colleda said:

Received this message a couple of days ago which, rightly or wrongly, sent shivers up my spine. Would appreciate suggestions on how to handle this one.

"Regarding Bison Trail #15 (GC4R3RH):
Hey colleda. I am a scout leader and am introducing my scouts to geocaching in a couple weeks and plan on having them walk this end of the bison trail. I have already found the majority of the caches on the bison trail but am having difficulty locating this cache. Any tips you can offer would be wonderful. Just want to know what I’m looking for before I bring the scouts out here"

I checked "scout leader's" profile and he/she appears a legit geocacher - 500+ finds.

There may have been a more correct thread for my above post however, I did a "scouts" search and this thread came up but I missed that it was the "irk" thread.The mention of scouts and caches does irk me a little.

1.7k · March 6, 2023

3 hours ago, colleda said:

Received this message a couple of days ago which, rightly or wrongly, sent shivers up my spine. Would appreciate suggestions on how to handle this one.

"Regarding Bison Trail #15 (GC4R3RH):
Hey colleda. I am a scout leader and am introducing my scouts to geocaching in a couple weeks and plan on having them walk this end of the bison trail. I have already found the majority of the caches on the bison trail but am having difficulty locating this cache. Any tips you can offer would be wonderful. Just want to know what I’m looking for before I bring the scouts out here"

I checked "scout leader's" profile and he/she appears a legit geocacher - 500+ finds.

I would ask him to skip this one with the kids.

4.7k · March 6, 2023

13 hours ago, colleda said:

I am a scout leader and am introducing my scouts to geocaching in a couple weeks and plan on having them walk this end of the bison trail.

EEEKKKK! 😦😧😨

9.2k · March 6, 2023

What am I missing? What is irksome about scouts being introduced to geocaching and doing a hike for a cache? And asking about one that they're having trouble finding so it could hopefully be certain of a find when they go?

Edited March 6, 2023 by thebruce0

1.7k · March 6, 2023

27 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

What am I missing? What is irksome about scouts being introduced to geocaching and doing a hike for a cache? And asking about one that they're having trouble finding so it could hopefully be certain of a find when they go?

For me when I posted in response to Colleda's note, my irk was the general nature of Scout Caching, from the perspective of a long-time Merit Badge Counselor.

It's a sanctioned, organized effort to inappropriately take groups of frequently undisciplined, uninterested youth to our carefully crafted and maintained game pieces, with an adult admonition to treat them with respect.

Could be a great thing if it only involved scouts truly interested and involved, but it usually isn't.

And...Cub Scouts?

I suspect Colleda's 'irk' was similar in nature.

Edited March 6, 2023 by TeamRabbitRun

9.2k · March 6, 2023

Ahh okay, the potential issue of harm to the geocache, got it. That can be irksome!

13.9k · March 6, 2023

On 3/4/2023 at 1:52 PM, Max and 99 said:

Grrrrrrrrr. HUGE irk. Three of us searched and searched for a cache that had NOT been placed yet. We really expanded our search for the "regular size" to no avail. Very frustrating.

The other 2/3rds biggest "irk". Around two dozen. That beta tester for newbs thing...

Edited March 6, 2023 by cerberus1

13.9k · March 6, 2023

On 3/3/2023 at 1:25 PM, thebruce0 said:

OR A STICKER, which crumples and folds and comes loose and takes up WAY too much space in a micro... irk!

:laughing: Yes!

Those kinda stopped here (still have the too-big stamps time to time), and it was a real pain-in-the-can to pick up all those tiny things blowing in the wind and try to pack 'em back in. Easy finding GZ when people aren't so careful...

The only thing more annoying is working the polls, and some write-in candidate used the same...

March 6, 2023

2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

What am I missing? What is irksome about scouts being introduced to geocaching and doing a hike for a cache? And asking about one that they're having trouble finding so it could hopefully be certain of a find when they go?

Indeed.

In fact, a missing cache would be an excellent part of the lesson about Geocaching. It would teach them that you can't find 'em all, but that's just part of the game! It would teach them to log their DNF's as info for the owner and for other cachers. Many lessons there.

A real world experience like the ones we've all come to know and love.

1.7k · March 6, 2023

1 hour ago, egroeg said:

Indeed.

In fact, a missing cache would be an excellent part of the lesson about Geocaching. It would teach them that you can't find 'em all, but that's just part of the game! It would teach them to log their DNF's as info for the owner and for other cachers. Many lessons there.

A real world experience like the ones we've all come to know and love.

Every dealt with pre-teen and teenage boys, especially at an activity they've been taken to that only an adult wants to do?

March 6, 2023

1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Every dealt with pre-teen and teenage boys, especially at an activity they've been taken to that only an adult wants to do?

Have you tried preparing well enough that you can actually keep the attention of a group of young men instead of dragging them into the woods just so you can check the box that says "Took them Geocaching"?

Fine, maybe some of them have no interest. Why short change the ones that might enjoy this hobby?

1.7k · March 6, 2023

1 hour ago, egroeg said:

Have you tried preparing well enough that you can actually keep the attention of a group of young men instead of dragging them into the woods just so you can check the box that says "Took them Geocaching"?

Fine, maybe some of them have no interest. Why short change the ones that might enjoy this hobby?

Yep, I have, and nope, I'm not that guy. I think everyone who's read me here knows that.

And, why short-change those other kids? Because in my opinion Scouting is not the right environment for this hobby. I'll take my son's friends out, but only because we can cherry-pick them. They MIGHT all end up being scouting friends, but with an open group? No. As Jeff sorta said above: not enough control over the consequences, and the consequences will and have fallen on all of you, my fellow COs.

I'm done on this matter for now.

4.7k · March 6, 2023

6 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

What am I missing? What is irksome about scouts being introduced to geocaching and doing a hike for a cache? And asking about one that they're having trouble finding so it could hopefully be certain of a find when they go?

I dropped a TB (not mine) off at a cache once. It was a bear attached to a tag. A group of scouts were the next to visit. The next log by one of the scouts read, "We kidnapped the bear". The bear has never been seen again in geocaching. They ready did steal it. I contacted that scout and explained it needed to be placed in another cache. No answer. I contacted the one who appeared to be the scout leader. No answer.

March 7, 2023

I must be the only optimist around here.

2.7k · March 7, 2023

7 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

For me when I posted in response to Colleda's note, my irk was the general nature of Scout Caching, from the perspective of a long-time Merit Badge Counselor.

It's a sanctioned, organized effort to inappropriately take groups of frequently undisciplined, uninterested youth to our carefully crafted and maintained game pieces, with an adult admonition to treat them with respect.

Could be a great thing if it only involved scouts truly interested and involved, but it usually isn't.

And...Cub Scouts?

I suspect Colleda's 'irk' was similar in nature.

That's it.

2.7k · March 7, 2023

7 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Ahh okay, the potential issue of harm to the geocache, got it. That can be irksome!

In my case possible harm to a series of 18 caches.

9.2k · March 7, 2023

It's an iffy area. There's conceptually great value in teaching them in this context; it's essentially orienteering. But at the same time you're dealing with other people's property that has to be maintained and people outside the group circle also participate.

A better context for teaching might be to set up private temporary geocaches to teach them about how it works, so you're not affecting other people's involvement if something bad does happen. it sucks. But yeah there can always be some bad seeds. It's not a given that someone in the group will be a problem child with it, but it is a chance, and happens, so why risk it within the realm of official geocaching? Mimic the experience. If they enjoy it, they could take it up on their own, likely with parents or friends until they're older. If they don't like it, then no harm. The mock activity can be the introduction to geocaching, but leave the actual geocaching to hobbyists instead of teaching lessons...

Plenty of kids do play this activity; but yeah, typically with family and responsible adults/authority (the type and persistence that leaders like scout leaders don't have). *shrug* just thinking out loud.

Edited March 7, 2023 by thebruce0

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