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What Irks you most?


avroair
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2 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

About the only time I've encountered micros listed as smalls have been with things that are only slightly smaller than the minimum 100ml for a small, like an Eclipse mint tin.

I've encountered film canisters listed as "small" a couple times. The CO figured that if a blinker is a "micro", then surely a film canister must be the next size up. Yeah, it's a classic example of size creep, which an official "nano" size would help reduce.

 

But when I've pointed out that a film canister should be listed as "micro", not "small", the owners have responded well.

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Just now, niraD said:

I've encountered film canisters listed as "small" a couple times. The CO figured that if a blinker is a "micro", then surely a film canister must be the next size up. Yeah, it's a classic example of size creep, which an official "nano" size would help reduce.

Agreed. I've argued that nanos have altered the perception of cache size, and we REALLY,  REALLY NEED that nano size rating. Long overdue, and weird it hasn't happened.

Wrong ratings here are too common. I've done power trails with almost every cache rated small sized, regardless of whether it was a small, or a tiny tube cache that only a small, tightly rolled log would fit in. To be honest, I doubt a nano rating would change that COs ratings, but it might (more than likely would) assist with others.

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18 hours ago, Max and 99 said:
20 hours ago, G0ldNugget said:

My newest gripe is the new cachers that never rehide the cache properly. Despite clearly saying, "please replace as found" in the description, invariably containers are left in the open, leaving them vulnerable to muggles, the weather and spoiling the challenge or surprise for the next player.

If I see this on a cache page, I'll put the cache back exactly where I found it. Which might not be where you placed it or want it. 

Edit: I just remembered that the last time this happened the geocacher who found the cache after me put on her log that the cache was not replaced where it's supposed to be.

 

I recently had one cacher whose coordinates were off, found my intentionally easy cache, then moved it away from the obviously correct location (by photos, description, hint).  Sometimes you just can't win. =P

 

18 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

We've done similar, where we knew that a cache wasn't supposed to be where we found it.

... But because the CO just had to give more directions, did as told.

Left a  message, " odd place for a cache, went by CO's request, may need maintenance..." in with my Found It. 

 

Yes, I think that is still the best way to play. Even if you think you found it how it wasn't intentionally hidden, best is to place it as you found and let the CO know so they can decide. Too often that feeling may be correct or wrong. 

 

In theory, as long as everyone follows the instruction, (barring unavoidable natural alterations) the cache placement should never change. And if/when it does, the CO is (should be) the one to fix and verify the cache as hidden as intended.

 

13 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

A fair few of the DNFs I get are because people haven't read the description before heading out in search of the cache. They get caught out by things like not realising there's no mobile reception anywhere near GZ

 

Oh that is a huge pet peeve of mine with the mobile apps. The API should include as basic information the title, description, and hint along with certain other essential properties. Text content is almost certainly sufficiently small not to be a bandwidth hog. And while I know Cachly allows you to set it to download full data on a quick search, the implication of the only giving absolutely bare details helps propagate the idea that all you need to find a cache is basically just coordinates, type, and DT. And that's just awful for new players who feel like the description is unimportant. 

But I've been bitten a couple of times by forgetting I only have 'short' data downloaded for caches say loaded on the map, then need the extra details but I'm somewhere with no reception. Bugs me to no end. It's one of the biggest reasons I've started using offline lists for any trips I think I may be somewhere with spotty reception.  Mentally I'm prepared to be fully offline with all desirable data.

 

It is a tough balance though since if you're just browsing the map for icons you don't necessarily want ALL the caches' data downloaded. It just needs to be more clear that data needed for viewing icons is absolute bare minimum. Or highlight the missing data more prominently if you're viewing an incomplete listing. A cache item with no hint is different than a cache item where the hint hasn't even been requested to download. Highlighting the latter may give newbies a bit more of an idea of what's involved in a cache listing if they're just navigating to a pin without getting all the cache data.

 

Anyway... gettin' all ranty ;)

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On 5/25/2020 at 4:05 PM, barefootjeff said:

 

I placed a large laminated card with illustrated instructions under one of mine in a desperate attempt to try to get people to put it back in a manner that doesn't crush the container, but it hasn't worked.

 

image.png.7a00d6f70a64c45d846d75372b0f1e21.png

 

With many of my hides, I'm more likely to go out and check after a find than I am after a DNF, just to make sure it's been put back properly. If someone didn't find the cache, they can't have not rehidden it properly.

 

This could work. I would love to tell visitors specifically how to replace it, but that will also tell them where to look. "Please put the big rock back on top" kinda gives away the hunt. I like the idea of including instructions on how it should be replaced, but subtly or inside the cache. Perhaps the generic "Please replace out of sight" would be enough.

Edited by G0ldNugget
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18 hours ago, G0ldNugget said:

This could work. I would love to tell visitors specifically how to replace it, but that will also tell them where to look. "Please put the big rock back on top" kinda gives away the hunt. I like the idea of including instructions on how it should be replaced, but subtly or inside the cache. Perhaps the generic "Please replace out of sight" would be enough.

 

Nice thing is, that would be entirely up to the CO. And if the cache is all about the experience and not about the hide, then a detailed description of the cache would be a non-issue to that CO. 

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...when I go out despite not really feeling like going out. Then it of course starts to storm and pour down massively once I arrive at the first cache of the nice 5 types plus bonus round, other pair of shoes still soaking wet from wading through several cm deep forest puddles two days previously. Run to some trees 300m back and shelter from the wind, open brolly, wait. Once rain stops I start a nice multi, but quickly get grumpy. Go home with a micro instead of the nice caches I wanted to do. :mad: Sometimes it's best to stay home.

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Irk: Cachers logging with their stamp on log sheets made of "waterproof" paper ("Write-in-the-rain" or whatever they are called). The result is almost certainly a mess, because the wet ink isn't absorbed but instead spread all about the log. So, unless you cacher nickname is "Big Red Blob" ;) , don't try to stamp on waterproof paper.

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1 hour ago, baer2006 said:

Irk: Cachers logging with their stamp on log sheets made of "waterproof" paper ("Write-in-the-rain" or whatever they are called). The result is almost certainly a mess, because the wet ink isn't absorbed but instead spread all about the log. So, unless you cacher nickname is "Big Red Blob" ;) , don't try to stamp on waterproof paper.

Possibly the fault here is of both the CO and the logger. Waterproof ink is available to the logger for their stamp, and the CO maybe should reconsider the type of waterproof paper they are using. That awful stiff, slippery paper is also difficult for those attempting to write their name. Some pens won't work on it, and if they use a water-based pen that will have the same problem as non waterproof stamp ink. Even on ordinary paper, non waterproof ink will bleed, whether it comes from an ink pad, or a pen. (Use wterproof stone based paper for the log.)

So an irk of mine, is people using non-waterproof ink, no matter where it is used.

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What irks me the most is not being able to hide caches due to Covid when everything around here is already open (restaurants, parks, etc) and when I question why, I'm referred to a post that was made months ago and is no longer relevant. I don't search much anymore, but I love the art of hiding a cache especially when I can make a unique container. Not being able to do so has really been frustrating. 

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2 hours ago, SmokeyBear#1 said:

What irks me the most is not being able to hide caches due to Covid when everything around here is already open (restaurants, parks, etc) and when I question why, I'm referred to a post that was made months ago and is no longer relevant. I don't search much anymore, but I love the art of hiding a cache especially when I can make a unique container. Not being able to do so has really been frustrating. 

That's a bit odd. You've had one published today.

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People who don't read the description of the cache(s) they're looking for! I understand that a lot of descriptions don't really tell you anything, but there are a lot that do. It might just tell you about some of the history of the area that the cache was placed in, or a clever story that goes along with the cache, but they can also tell you important details about the cache that might help you more than you might think. Anyways, just read the description or just skim over it or do something, please at least look at it though! Unless you're caching on the fly with a GPSr, there's no real reason not to anyways...

Edited by TmdAndGG
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38 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

People who don't read the description of the cache(s) they're looking for! I understand that a lot of descriptions don't really tell you anything, but there are a lot that do. It might just tell you about some of the history of the area that the cache was placed in, or a clever story that goes along with the cache, but they can also tell you important details about the cache that might help you more than you might think. Anyways, just read the description or just skim over it or do something, please at least look at it though! Unless you're caching on the fly with a GPSr, there's no real reason not to anyways...

I'm one of those, as many (most) descriptions aren't useful for finding a (Traditional) cache. Yes I know some people do put information here, but most don't, at least where I live. I check the hint; that in most case is more useful. If I were visiting a cache in a remote area I might read the description before going, but rarely for an' everyday' cache. Otherwise, only if I can't find the cache, but mostly there is no help from reading it. It's more desperation and clutching at straws, that usually comes to nought. I might though later read any interesting history, etc that is in the description, when I am logging the cache. For me, for traditional caches, the Description is mostly the place to put the reason the cache is there (example GC6BAM6), the history (GC4BKBP), etc and maybe a description of the area, which is not really helpful in finding the cache, so optional to read. However, as I wrote, later when I have more time (and a bigger screen to read it on), I might enjoy reading the history, etc.

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17 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I'm one of those, as many (most) descriptions aren't useful for finding a (Traditional) cache. Yes I know some people do put information here, but most don't, at least where I live. I check the hint; that in most case is more useful. If I were visiting a cache in a remote area I might read the description before going, but rarely for an' everyday' cache. Otherwise, only if I can't find the cache, but mostly there is no help from reading it. It's more desperation and clutching at straws, that usually comes to nought. I might though later read any interesting history, etc that is in the description, when I am logging the cache. For me, for traditional caches, the Description is mostly the place to put the reason the cache is there (example GC6BAM6), the history (GC4BKBP), etc and maybe a description of the area, which is not really helpful in finding the cache, so optional to read. However, as I wrote, later when I have more time (and a bigger screen to read it on), I might enjoy reading the history, etc.

 

You don't read the description, but you go right to the hint? That's backwards!

 

In my eyes, and according to the way I play, the description is what the CO wants you to know to solve the puzzle of finding the cache, even for a trad. The HINT is what you go after if all else fails! That's why the hint's encoded, and the description isn't.

 

I kinda feel it's like accepting a book from a mystery author, saying "Thank you", and turning to the back page.

 

One more reason for a CO to ask, "Why put all that work into it?"

 

Sure, most COs these days get it wrong, too. They waste their descriptions, and trivialize their hints. THAT'S the problem.

 

If you come after one of mine, please read it. I put a lot of work into them!

 

 

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1 hour ago, TmdAndGG said:

People who don't read the description of the cache(s) they're looking for! I understand that a lot of descriptions don't really tell you anything, but there are a lot that do. It might just tell you about some of the history of the area that the cache was placed in, or a clever story that goes along with the cache, but they can also tell you important details about the cache that might help you more than you might think. Anyways, just read the description or just skim over it or do something, please at least look at it though! Unless you're caching on the fly with a GPSr, there's no real reason not to anyways...

 

 

I really wish more people would read the description on my caches before they just hit Go and blindly follow the arrow. For a start, there are often safety and access hints, like dangerous cliffs and drop-offs to avoid, slippery rocks or, for those caches close to tidal waterways, advice on whether it's best (or even possible) to access the cache at low tide, high tide or somewhere in between. I've had DNFs on my Earthcache from people trying to access it at high tide or when big seas are running.

 

Next there are navigational tips, like where to leave the track or which way to turn if there's a track junction. On one of my caches (GC7YP51), there's a side track that appears to lead directly to GZ and in fact it does, but it ends at the top of the cliff above the cache and the cache is in a cave that's only accessible from below at the end of the track you should have stayed on.

 

Then I often highlight some of the attractions on the way to the cache, such as in GC8TAFN with the cascades and the ferny glade. My caches aren't just about a container and a logbook, they're about the whole experience and the journey there is often the main reason I placed the cache where I did. If I just wanted people to find the container and sign the logbook, I'd put it right next to the Parking waypoint.

 

Sadly, the way the game is going, it seems HQ is almost intentionally trying to discourage people from looking at the description. For traditionals, the Info popup in the app says to only look at the description if you get stuck (too bad if you're stuck halfway down the cliff and didn't read about the easy access along the track at the bottom), the new search map encourages people to just download the gpx file or add the cache to a list without ever looking at the cache page, and the Help Centre makes no mention at all of cache pages or descriptions in its information for beginners. The  Ten Tips when looking for a cache page says this:

 

image.png.0299b16bb12832d2c509b8a1b38d1361.png

 

It talks about checking the hint, recent logs and always bringing a pen, but NOWHERE does it say anything about looking at the cache page, the description or the attributes. Those things might just as well not exist for anyone reading that beginner's guide.

 

Honestly, I'm almost at the point of just putting THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK as the description on my next hide and see if anyone notices. The reviewer would probably knock it back unless it was part of a puzzle, though.

 

Edited by barefootjeff
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47 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

You don't read the description, but you go right to the hint? That's backwards!

Not at all, it's 'forward' thinking.  In most traditional caches the hint is much more informative for finding the cache than the description, which in most cases is a waste of time to read for finding the cache, as it tells you nothing in regard to finding the cache, but might give an interesting read, which I often do later when logging on that bigger screen. (Not including remote (or remote-ish) caches in this comment, as they can be useful to read, but they are a minority of the caches.) Here are the descriptions of the first six caches I randomly clicked on (Yellow smiley faces, so I had no name of the cache, so truly random.) These are typical of where I live. Only one is part of a power trail. Tell me how these are any help in finding the cache. Any help is with the hint, which I also include.

Geocache Description:

Eddison Park was named for the Eddison family whose rural property 'Yamba' was in the area now known as Phillip. Much of Phillip was developed subsequently as Woden Town Centre which included a site for a town park between Yamba Drive and the Woden Cemetery.
Planning and development of this park commenced in 1972, but it was not until 1988 that it was named after the Eddison family. World War II claimed the lives of all three Eddison sons and this has influenced the manner in which the park has been developed and used. The park was officially opened in February 1992. I was really surprised to see there were no caches in this park & thought I'd better do something about it. The first is (GC604TX) is already published. It's a lovely park with the Woden Cemetery at the centre (no puns about "Dead Centre of Town" here !) . I see there is some sort of park-golf course here, but there was no activity when I was here. As always, a FTF reward awaits the fleet-footed.
Note: The Woden Cemetery will expand over the area where this cache is housed. This will happen soon. It is likely this cache will be archived when the area becomes unavailable.

Additional Hints (Encrypt)

Is that a hole-in-one I see ?
 

Geocache Description:

I noticed there a few tracks around and through here, so I decided to see where they go. Here you will find yourselft at a nice spot next to Jerrabomberra creek. If you have time, you can follow the track all the way to Fyshwick.
Please BYO pen.

Additional Hints (Encrypt)

Hanging
 

Geocache Description:

This is my very first cache. Once I heard of this idea I immediately thought I want to place a cache in this community effort trail. I didn't get around to it for a while and now finally managed to. Luckily there is still space for mine and I guess there is space for about 3 more, maximum. Very happy to be part of it, thanks Goldwattle for the idea. 
Flintstone's accompanied me while placing, he will log when the FTF is gone.
Have fun. 
FTF goes to: Everlasting, DeafVW and Deafcat
Additional Hints (Encrypt)
Bison on the fence post
 

Geocache Description:

Yarralumla Blumble should be an easy to find cache but hard to say jumble of words. Try saying three times in a row!
(Hey, caches are hard to name sometimes)

Additional Hints (Encrypt)

fenceline
 

Geocache Description:

Here you will find yourself opposite to the ANU, in a swamp! Well, it's not always a swamp, but you need to allow for it being one! There are a number of ways to get here, and two thirds of them involve blackberries! - BUT! There are 2 ways which do not involve blackberries, so I will leave the choice to you! A sort of peaceful location amongst the hustle and bustle of the city.
Please note: This is a very small cache, please BYO pen.

Additional Hints (No hints available.)

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21 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I really wish more people would read the description on my caches before they just hit Go and blindly follow the arrow. For a start, there are often safety and access hints, like dangerous cliffs and drop-offs to avoid, slippery rocks or, for those caches close to tidal waterways, advice on whether it's best (or even possible) to access the cache at low tide, high tide or somewhere in between. I've had DNFs on my Earthcache from people trying to access it at high tide or when big seas are running.

 

Next there are navigational tips, like where to leave the track or which way to turn if there's a track junction. On one of my caches (GC7YP51), there's a side track that appears to lead directly to GZ and in fact it does, but it ends at the top of the cliff above the cache and the cache is in a cave that's only accessible from below at the end of the track you should have stayed on.

 

Then I often highlight some of the attractions on the way to the cache, such as in GC8TAFN with the cascades and the ferny glade. My caches aren't just about a container and a logbook, they're about the whole experience and the journey there is often the main reason I placed the cache where I did. If I just wanted people to find the container and sign the logbook, I'd put it right next to the Parking waypoint.

 

Sadly, the way the game is going, it seems HQ is almost intentionally trying to discourage people from looking at the description. For traditionals, the Info popup in the app says to only look at the description if you get stuck (too bad if you're stuck halfway down the cliff and didn't read about the easy access along the track at the bottom), the new search map encourages people to just download the gpx file or add the cache to a list without ever looking at the cache page, and the Help Centre makes no mention at all of cache pages or descriptions in its information for beginners. The  Ten Tips when looking for a cache page says this:

 

image.png.0299b16bb12832d2c509b8a1b38d1361.png

 

It talks about checking the hint, recent logs and always bringing a pen, but NOWHERE does it say anything about looking at the cache page, the description or the attributes. Those things might just as well not exist for anyone reading that beginner's guide.

 

Honestly, I'm almost at the point of just putting THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK as the description on my next hide and see if anyone notices. The reviewer would probably knock it back unless it was part of a puzzle, though.

 

For the kind of caches that you publish, I would read the description, hint and likely many logs too. But most caches are not in places like yours, so most caches I don't bother with the description. Or, much to my chagrin recently, whose cache I was finding. I was travelling away and had been given a new cache and logs to do maintenance on a couple of caches for a geocacher I know. I naturally was caching too, and making notes (I don't like generic logs and prefer individual logs) in my logs of any caches I found and noting which needed attention, such as a new log. It was hours later and many kms away, when at night I was logging that day's finds, and referring to my notes to do so, that I realised that one of the caches I had noted in my notes that needed a new log, belonged to the geocacher who I was doing maintenance on a couple of caches for. I should have included this cache.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

Not at all, it's 'forward' thinking.  In most traditional caches the hint is much more informative for finding the cache than the description, which in most cases is a waste of time to read for finding the cache, as it tells you nothing in regard to finding the cache, but might give an interesting read, which I often do later when logging on that bigger screen. (Not including remote (or remote-ish) caches in this comment, as they can be useful to read, but they are a minority of the caches.) Here are the descriptions of the first six caches I randomly clicked on (Yellow smiley faces, so I had no name of the cache, so truly random.) These are typical of where I live. Only one is part of a power trail. Tell me how these are any help in finding the cache. Any help is with the hint, which I also include.

Geocache Description:

Eddison Park was named for the Eddison family whose rural property 'Yamba' was in the area now known as Phillip. Much of Phillip was developed subsequently as Woden Town Centre which included a site for a town park between Yamba Drive and the Woden Cemetery.
Planning and development of this park commenced in 1972, but it was not until 1988 that it was named after the Eddison family. World War II claimed the lives of all three Eddison sons and this has influenced the manner in which the park has been developed and used. The park was officially opened in February 1992. I was really surprised to see there were no caches in this park & thought I'd better do something about it. The first is (GC604TX) is already published. It's a lovely park with the Woden Cemetery at the centre (no puns about "Dead Centre of Town" here !) . I see there is some sort of park-golf course here, but there was no activity when I was here. As always, a FTF reward awaits the fleet-footed.
Note: The Woden Cemetery will expand over the area where this cache is housed. This will happen soon. It is likely this cache will be archived when the area becomes unavailable.

Additional Hints (Encrypt)

Is that a hole-in-one I see ?
 

Geocache Description:

I noticed there a few tracks around and through here, so I decided to see where they go. Here you will find yourselft at a nice spot next to Jerrabomberra creek. If you have time, you can follow the track all the way to Fyshwick.
Please BYO pen.

Additional Hints (Encrypt)

Hanging
 

Geocache Description:

This is my very first cache. Once I heard of this idea I immediately thought I want to place a cache in this community effort trail. I didn't get around to it for a while and now finally managed to. Luckily there is still space for mine and I guess there is space for about 3 more, maximum. Very happy to be part of it, thanks Goldwattle for the idea. 
Flintstone's accompanied me while placing, he will log when the FTF is gone.
Have fun. 
FTF goes to: Everlasting, DeafVW and Deafcat
Additional Hints (Encrypt)
Bison on the fence post
 

Geocache Description:

Yarralumla Blumble should be an easy to find cache but hard to say jumble of words. Try saying three times in a row!
(Hey, caches are hard to name sometimes)

Additional Hints (Encrypt)

fenceline
 

Geocache Description:

Here you will find yourself opposite to the ANU, in a swamp! Well, it's not always a swamp, but you need to allow for it being one! There are a number of ways to get here, and two thirds of them involve blackberries! - BUT! There are 2 ways which do not involve blackberries, so I will leave the choice to you! A sort of peaceful location amongst the hustle and bustle of the city.
Please note: This is a very small cache, please BYO pen.

Additional Hints (No hints available.)

 

Well, you expended much effort to prove nothing. I stipulated that most COs waste their descriptions, so quoting examples of that doesn't add much.

Exposing the hints before even trying to find caches (if that's what you do; it isn't really clear) is like taking an open-book test. MY developed geosenses, sucky as they are, would be worse if I started with the hints.

Personally, I'd rather not be told on my way in that it's hangin' on the fence.

Edited by TeamRabbitRun
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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

For the kind of caches that you publish, I would read the description, hint and likely many logs too. But most caches are not in places like yours, so most caches I don't bother with the hint. Or, much to my chagrin recently, whose cache I was finding. I was travelling away and had been given a new cache and logs to do maintenance on a couple of caches for a geocacher I know. I naturally was caching too, and making notes (I don't like generic logs and prefer individual logs) in my logs of any caches I found and noting which needed attention, such as a new log. It was hours later and many kms away, when at night I was logging that day's finds, and referring to my notes to do so, that I realised that one of the caches I had noted in my notes that needed a new log, belonged to the geocacher who I was doing maintenance on a couple of caches for. I should have included this cache.

 

One of my recent hides, a terrain 2.5 traditional which is about as close to an urban hide as I get, is only a few hundred metres walk from the parking waypoint  on Woy Woy Road, but I'd still encourage would-be seekers to at least look at the cache page before attempting it:

 

Description.jpg.66a3658c7d1dcf15654ebbdb8b6d89d9.jpg

 

If you just press Go and follow the arrow, chances are you'll leave the track onto a rock shelf near a power pole, however to get from there to the cache would be a fair bush-bash through prickly scrub across a gully. By following the directions in the description, it's an unobstructed walk the whole way. Also the reason I'm bringing people to this location is the vista with Mt Wondabyne on the right, the ocean with the Barrenjoey headland lighthouse on the left and the old quarry in between. Fine, if people are just after the +1 for their stats and don't care about the landscape there's not much I can do, but even so it might be helpful for them to know they're looking for a 380ml Sistema as that limits the number of potential hiding places.

 

The way I see it, if the CO went to the trouble of writing a description, the least I can do is read it or at least skim through it before heading off to attempt the cache. Whether it's helpful or not in finding the container, at least I'll know why the CO wanted to bring me to that location. For me, caching is about the experience the CO wanted me to have, not just my signature in the logbook.

 

Interesting, the last one you quoted:

 

Quote

Here you will find yourself opposite to the ANU, in a swamp! Well, it's not always a swamp, but you need to allow for it being one! There are a number of ways to get here, and two thirds of them involve blackberries! - BUT! There are 2 ways which do not involve blackberries, so I will leave the choice to you! A sort of peaceful location amongst the hustle and bustle of the city.

Please note: This is a very small cache, please BYO pen.

Additional Hints (No hints available.)

 

the blackberries is something I'd definitely want to know about before I went dashing in.

 

Edited by barefootjeff
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18 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

One of my recent hides, a terrain 2.5 traditional which is about as close to an urban hide as I get, is only a few hundred metres walk from the parking waypoint  on Woy Woy Road, but I'd still encourage would-be seekers to at least look at the cache page before attempting it:

 

Description.jpg.66a3658c7d1dcf15654ebbdb8b6d89d9.jpg

 

If you just press Go and follow the arrow, chances are you'll leave the track onto a rock shelf near a power pole, however to get from there to the cache would be a fair bush-bash through prickly scrub across a gully. By following the directions in the description, it's an unobstructed walk the whole way. Also the reason I'm bringing people to this location is the vista with Mt Wondabyne on the right, the ocean with the Barrenjoey headland lighthouse on the left and the old quarry in between. Fine, if people are just after the +1 for their stats and don't care about the landscape there's not much I can do, but even so it might be helpful for them to know they're looking for a 380ml Sistema as that limits the number of potential hiding places.

 

The way I see it, if the CO went to the trouble of writing a description, the least I can do is read it or at least skim through it before heading off to attempt the cache. Whether it's helpful or not in finding the container, at least I'll know why the CO wanted to bring me to that location. For me, caching is about the experience the CO wanted me to have, not just my signature in the logbook.

 

Interesting, the last one you quoted:

 

 

the blackberries is something I'd definitely want to know about before I went dashing in.

 

I should have added, on caches out in bushland I also check google maps before I go and make notes; also make any WPs I think necessary. Even for a day out finding suburban caches, I check on google maps and note where to park if I can't park at the cache coordinates. Or if using publish transport, make notes on that too, including the timetable. Plus make any other notes that are necessary. I don't go unprepared. I am often way over prepared. Generally more prepared than many others.

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We don't have much need here for reading the descriptions on low D/T traditionals.  Go to GZ, sign log, done.  Rinse, repeat... 

All others are read in entirety though.

 

What irks us is those who type very-lengthy blather in the description of low D/T caches, having to scroll through it all, then find the cache itself has nothing to do with all that meaningless carp.

One had the equivalent of an earthcache in length for the area, photos of the town and all ... and turned out just a nano on a speed limit sign.

The other 2/3rds got it...

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Once again the same irk. Began to log the caches we found in GSAK after getting home on Sunday only to discover a TB we left in a cache could not e dropped as it was no longer in our inventory. Someone "grabbed" it, probably using a smartphone in the field. Why can't people not wait until the trackables are logged a few hours later?

 

I grabbed it back and dropped it in the cache. Up to them to log retrieve.

 

We took 5 TBs from a cache yesterday that were not yet logged, they are on our watchlist and as soon as they are logged we'll log them as retrieved, it can be as simple as that.

 

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24 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Once again the same irk. Began to log the caches we found in GSAK after getting home on Sunday only to discover a TB we left in a cache could not e dropped as it was no longer in our inventory. Someone "grabbed" it, probably using a smartphone in the field. Why can't people not wait until the trackables are logged a few hours later?

 

I grabbed it back and dropped it in the cache. Up to them to log retrieve.

 

We took 5 TBs from a cache yesterday that were not yet logged, they are on our watchlist and as soon as they are logged we'll log them as retrieved, it can be as simple as that.

 

I had that happen recently. I like to take a release photograph of the TB, but the TB was logged before I could get to my laptop that evening. So I made a note. At least it was picked up and logged.

https://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=8237115&page=6

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2 hours ago, on4bam said:

Once again the same irk. Began to log the caches we found in GSAK after getting home on Sunday only to discover a TB we left in a cache could not e dropped as it was no longer in our inventory. Someone "grabbed" it, probably using a smartphone in the field. Why can't people not wait until the trackables are logged a few hours later?

Because nowadays everyone caches with a smart phone, is always online, and time is of the essence. :rolleyes:

 

Ok, sorry for the sarcasm ;) ... I know what you mean, and it's a (minor) irk for me as well. Interestingly, the same issue was brought up in a German Geocaching FB group recently. Someone posted, that they "grabbed" a TB online after retrieving it from a cache, and got a harsh complaint from the previous holder for not waiting a few hours until the TB had been properly dropped into the cache. They wanted to know if they did anything wrong. Result: The majority(!) of answers said that they did nothing wrong, and that the previous holder was a jerk for not dropping the TB online right in the field, and then complaining about the grab. And if you say, that you're not always online or caching with a GPSr only, you're an old dinosaur ...

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More than half of the people we encounter on caching trips use GPS's so not "everyone caches with a smartphone". Just look at all the questions regarding loading maps/caches on this forum.

 

I see it as a courtesy to the other cacher to wait until a TB is dropped before retrieving it. It's even in the wording of the log type ... "grabbed from ...." as in "took from..." Of course, this is not how the "I want it now" and FOMO generation (not one specific age group) thinks.

As for logging on the spot, it seems most logs are written in the evening, after a cachingtrip, by most people, there's no "need" to log on the spot.

And yes, I'm not always online (I am at home, but not when out, I enjoy not being interrupted for every little fart someone thinks they need to share :D).  So even when I would want to log immediately I couldn't (Oh well, I could, using my tablet and mobile hotspot which are switched off until needed)

.

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2 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Because nowadays everyone caches with a smart phone, is always online, and time is of the essence. :rolleyes:

 

Ok, sorry for the sarcasm ;) ... I know what you mean, and it's a (minor) irk for me as well. Interestingly, the same issue was brought up in a German Geocaching FB group recently. Someone posted, that they "grabbed" a TB online after retrieving it from a cache, and got a harsh complaint from the previous holder for not waiting a few hours until the TB had been properly dropped into the cache. They wanted to know if they did anything wrong. Result: The majority(!) of answers said that they did nothing wrong, and that the previous holder was a jerk for not dropping the TB online right in the field, and then complaining about the grab. And if you say, that you're not always online or caching with a GPSr only, you're an old dinosaur ...

Or don't have mobile phone coverage. Not uncommon in Australia away from the urban areas.

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5 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Because nowadays everyone caches with a smart phone, is always online, and time is of the essence. :rolleyes:

 

Ok, sorry for the sarcasm ;) ... I know what you mean, and it's a (minor) irk for me as well. Interestingly, the same issue was brought up in a German Geocaching FB group recently. Someone posted, that they "grabbed" a TB online after retrieving it from a cache, and got a harsh complaint from the previous holder for not waiting a few hours until the TB had been properly dropped into the cache. They wanted to know if they did anything wrong. Result: The majority(!) of answers said that they did nothing wrong, and that the previous holder was a jerk for not dropping the TB online right in the field, and then complaining about the grab.

And if you say, that you're not always online or caching with a GPSr only, you're an old dinosaur ...

 

One of the couple reasons we stopped the FTF side-game is folks who complained that "they weren't made aware immediately" that the other 2/3rds was FTF.   

She was "inconsiderate".   

Did any of these knuckleheads ever play in real competition ?     I'll show you inconsiderate...    :laughing:

 - And she's used a phone for caching since 2005, but logs at home.  

"Wasting my time" shouldn't be any part of a game.  A "game" where no one plays unless they're gonna win ?  

This selfish thinking just moved to trackables as well.

 

I'd prefer to be the old dinosaur...

You realize that you got that answer on faceboook, what did you expect ?   :)     

I'd ask  long-time players at an event once too,  and see if it's the same. 

The new kids here had issues with me sometimes, like a smartphone was something new in 2010.  :D

When they needed to PAF for help though, realizing they had to call the old fart where they got a hint on our caches , or something serious  (one requiring a rope rescue...), they calmed themselves down a bit.

 

 

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8 hours ago, on4bam said:

I grabbed it back and dropped it in the cache. Up to them to log retrieve.

So you took a TB correctly logged in someone's hands and logged it in somewhere it no longer is? I prefer people giving me time to log the drop, but it doesn't irk me when they don't. It does irk me when someone intentionally logs a TB into a cache they know it's not in.

 

8 hours ago, on4bam said:

We took 5 TBs from a cache yesterday that were not yet logged, they are on our watchlist and as soon as they are logged we'll log them as retrieved, it can be as simple as that.

So you're going to hold on to those TBs incogneto forever if no one drops them? I'm not sure that's reasonable, either.

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9 minutes ago, dprovan said:

So you took a TB correctly logged in someone's hands and logged it in somewhere it no longer is? I prefer people giving me time to log the drop, but it doesn't irk me when they don't. It does irk me when someone intentionally logs a TB into a cache they know it's not in.

 

So you're going to hold on to those TBs incogneto forever if no one drops them? I'm not sure that's reasonable, either.

1. It was not correctly logged. It was in a cache I dropped it in and only could log a few hours later. I did send an email about it to the "grabber" so they can properly retrieve it.

2. You make silly assumptions. :rolleyes:

I checked who had the 5 TBs. They are two cachers from the Netherlands that may have come for the weekend as they logged several other caches nearby. They seem to be very active and I'm sure they will log soon. If not, I'll mail them about it but I won't be grabbing TB's without giving the other cachers the opportunity to log first. That way the trackable history remains correct too.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, dprovan said:

So you took a TB correctly logged in someone's hands and logged it in somewhere it no longer is? I prefer people giving me time to log the drop, but it doesn't irk me when they don't. It does irk me when someone intentionally logs a TB into a cache they know it's not in.

 

No, you are taking back a incorrectly logged TB.  I do the same thing, unless the person grabbing it has logged it into the cache they found it in.

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58 minutes ago, on4bam said:

That way the trackable history remains correct too.

 

Only if you haven't logged all the caches you've found when you had the TB in your physical possession but not in your online geocaching collection of TBs in your possession.  Does that mean you'll go back and individually log each visit once the TBs are dropped and you can add them or do you not "visit" the TBs to the caches you've found and only drop them? Or are you waiting for the current holders of the TBs to drop them all before you log any of your found caches after you picked each of them up?

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4 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

 

Only if you haven't logged all the caches you've found when you had the TB in your physical possession but not in your online geocaching collection of TBs in your possession.  Does that mean you'll go back and individually log each visit once the TBs are dropped and you can add them or do you not "visit" the TBs to the caches you've found and only drop them? Or are you waiting for the current holders of the TBs to drop them all before you log any of your found caches after you picked each of them up?

I don't "visit all" as many (including me) don"t like page after page of "took it to..." I do that with 2 of my own TBs.

As I wrote, both are active cachers they won't wait long to log. They still have a few days before we go out again...

 

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5 hours ago, on4bam said:
5 hours ago, dprovan said:

So you took a TB correctly logged in someone's hands and logged it in somewhere it no longer is? I prefer people giving me time to log the drop, but it doesn't irk me when they don't. It does irk me when someone intentionally logs a TB into a cache they know it's not in.


1. It was not correctly logged. It was in a cache I dropped it in and only could log a few hours later. I did send an email about it to the "grabber" so they can properly retrieve it.


I’m with dprovan on this one.  Yes, it’s frustrating that you haven’t had the chance to log the trackable as you’d like, but it is now in the hands of the (impatient) cacher and not in the cache you left it.  I wouldn’t change that.

 

The danger is that they leave it in a cache without realising you’ve taken it from their inventory.  Then, unless they’ve retained the code, they have no way of logging the drop.

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8 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

The danger is that they leave it in a cache without realising you’ve taken it from their inventory. 

 

They should read their email then. I've mailed them what I did and since they seem to be online 24/7 that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Worst case scenario, the next one grabs the TB ;)

 

BTW, as a GSAK user I still have most tracking codes of trackables seen/moved. I keep tight books B)

Edited by on4bam
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3 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:
19 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

The danger is that they leave it in a cache without realising you’ve taken it from their inventory.  

 

I understand your point, but we are talking about a trackable, right ?      :)


Poor choice of words.  Maybe “risk” would have been better. ?

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7 hours ago, The Jester said:

No, you are taking back a incorrectly logged TB.  I do the same thing, unless the person grabbing it has logged it into the cache they found it in.

 

Yes!  That's one of the things that really irks me!  I dropped a TB in a cache.  Got home twenty minutes later, went to log it, and it had been grabbed from me!  That was many years ago,

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8 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

One of the couple reasons we stopped the FTF side-game is folks who complained that "they weren't made aware immediately" that the other 2/3rds was FTF.   

She was "inconsiderate". 

I stopped when I found I couldn't compete with people who have surgically attached their phone to their hip. In the last few years I have only attempted one FTF, which I got, as I was on my computer at the time and the cache was close to where I live.

8 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

The new kids here had issues with me sometimes, like a smartphone was something new in 2010.

I didn't start using data on my phone until about three years ago, as up till then I couldn't justify the expense (don't confuse justify and afford), when I could go home and use my computer without incurring extra expense. Besides, so much more pleasant and relaxing  using the computer with the larger screen. And not wasting caching time in the field :laughing:. I have been with people who insist on logging in the field, and I start walking and turn and there they are wasting time, fixated on their phone.

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21 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Personally, I'd rather not be told on my way in that it's hangin' on the fence.

As you said personally. That's your personal choice and I respect that. Now respect the personal choice of others to check the hint. I respect your choice not to.

 

"Well, you expended much effort to prove nothing."

 

And I did prove my point, regarding my local caches. Although this has also been my experience in other places I have visited. Most descriptions, although some are very interesting and worth reading, don't give much information to actually find the cache, and most don't need to, as the hint is usually enough. And with so many caches these days with sizes marked wrongly, the hint is more important than ever.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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10 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I stopped when I found I couldn't compete with people who have surgically attached their phone to their hip. In the last few years I have only attempted one FTF, which I got, as I was on my computer at the time and the cache was close to where I live.

 

It's a bit different here, I got a FTF in mid May on a cache about 5km from home and six weeks on I'm still the only finder. My most recent hide (GC8V8WA), published on the 20th of June, has still just had its joint FTF and my other hides this year (GC8JGWN, GC8RTKC and GC8TAFN) have had 3, 3, and 4 finds respectively. FTF races have long become a thing of the past here.

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6 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

It's a bit different here, I got a FTF in mid May on a cache about 5km from home and six weeks on I'm still the only finder. My most recent hide (GC8V8WA), published on the 20th of June, has still just had its joint FTF and my other hides this year (GC8JGWN, GC8RTKC and GC8TAFN) have had 3, 3, and 4 finds respectively. FTF races have long become a thing of the past here.

I too have got FTFs away from Canberra, after a week or more since the cache was published. Some I didn't know were FTF until I opened the log book. They were just caches I had bulk loaded. I did though then check other caches in the area, and in a couple of cases found more FTF caches to head for. Eight in one case. They were in country areas where caching is not so common.

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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

As you said personally. That's your personal choice and I respect that. Now respect the personal choice of others to check the hint. I respect your choice not to.

 

"Well, you expended much effort to prove nothing."

 

And I did prove my point, regarding my local caches. Although this has also been my experience in other places I have visited. Most descriptions, although some are very interesting and worth reading, don't give much information to actually find the cache, and most don't need to, as the hint is usually enough. And with so many caches these days with sizes marked wrongly, the hint is more important than ever.

 

So what's your point, that I shouldn't point out how I play differently than you, and our approaches to the game are different?

You seem to be more about nailing the smiley than I am. I seem to be more about playing the game as a game, playing along WITH the CO, not pushing the CO aside.

I play bad descriptions and wrong size classifications the same way I play explicit instructions: "Well, that's what I have to deal with on this one!"

I DON'T see a bad or (apparently) irrelevant description as a reason to immediately jump to the next step: the hint. Maybe that's why I have a relatively low find count, and a low find-to-outing ratio - much to my wife's chagrin, I take a long dadgum time poking around!

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4 hours ago, IceColdUK said:


I’m with dprovan on this one.  Yes, it’s frustrating that you haven’t had the chance to log the trackable as you’d like, but it is now in the hands of the (impatient) cacher and not in the cache you left it.  I wouldn’t change that.

 

The danger is that they leave it in a cache without realising you’ve taken it from their inventory.  Then, unless they’ve retained the code, they have no way of logging the drop.

They have the physical TB in their hands, that contains the code so they can log it.  I always note - by code - what trackable I leave where, otherwise I'd never know what went where.

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