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What Irks you most?

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34 minutes ago, ParrotRobAndCeCe said:

I see your point, but I guess there are multiple ways of looking at it.  If it has "nothing to do with me" then I wouldn't pick it up in the first place. 

The fact that you pick it up and put it in your pocket sort of nullifies the "nothing to do with me" argument ;)

 

As for not knowing what the goal is, I perfectly understand, because as you so eloquently put the fact that I'm getting old (lol), yes I DO remember the days before smartphone caching.  But even then, on the rare occasions I found a trackable, I almost never re-deployed it before I logged it as "retrieved" and read about it.  To each their own, I guess.

 

The trackable's goal has nothing to do with us.  It's the goal of it's Owner.  We pick up a trackable and try to honor it's goal.  Simple...

We never sent a trackable back out without Retrieving it first, contrary to what you imply...

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2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

 

The trackable's goal has nothing to do with us.  It's the goal of it's Owner.  We pick up a trackable and try to honor it's goal.  Simple...

We never sent a trackable back out without Retrieving it first, contrary to what you imply...

 

OK so help me understand this then... you mentioned that you play with a GPSr and if there's no mention of the goal on the TB, you don't know it.  But then you said you never release a trackable until after you "retrieve it".  So... if you hold on to it long enough to "retrieve it", then you've got it long enough to read what it's objective is.  The only difference is the phone user knows it in the field and you know it later when you do your retrieve logs.  I'm completely not seeing how your device has anything to do with whether you choose to honor the wishes of the owner or not.

The only difference I can see is if you pull a TB from a cache someplace where it's no longer possible to meet it's goal, and that's unavoidable.  However.... in the (real life) example I used, this bug's goal was CLEARLY to stay in the United States, which is not a really difficult thing to do - especially when the retriever dipped it in several US caches before dragging it overseas.  There's no reason to do that.

It sounds like what you're basically saying is "Go ahead and give it a goal, but don't expect anyone like me to give a rat's a** what it is".  All I'M saying is "Maybe you can't help it on its way to its goal, but the least you can do is not HINDER it deliberately".

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ParrotRobAndCeCe said:

OK so help me understand this then... you mentioned that you play with a GPSr and if there's no mention of the goal on the TB, you don't know it.  But then you said you never release a trackable until after you "retrieve it".  So... if you hold on to it long enough to "retrieve it", then you've got it long enough to read what it's objective is.  The only difference is the phone user knows it in the field and you know it later when you do your retrieve logs.  I'm completely not seeing how your device has anything to do with whether you choose to honor the wishes of the owner or not.

 

Perhaps I can give my perspective on this. A phone cacher who logs the retrieve while at GZ can immediately see what its goal is and, if they can't comply with it, can immediately drop it back in that cache. Someone who uses a GPSr and logs at home can't do that. For example, a couple of months back I was down in central Sydney for the day and found a trackable in a micro so thought I'd better retrieve it as it was a pretty tight squeeze for it and the log. When I got home and logged it, I found that it had come from overseas with a goal to travel to Sydney where the TO hoped some of his caching friends there might discover it:

 

Quote

We're a group of friends-turned-geocaching buddies in Spokane, WA and we're hoping this trackable will make it to our friends in Sydney, Australia. Feel free to move it anywhere--we're hoping it will have some fun adventures before it makes it to Australia.

 

From the logs it appeared an overseas visitor had dropped it in that cache two days before I found it. Oops. A trip to central Sydney is a couple of hours each way for me so I wasn't about to go back down there just to return it to that micro, the best I could do was drop it in a cache on the northern fringes of Sydney a few days later when I was in that vicinity on other business. Sadly I see that the next person to retrieve it has taken it down to Canberra, so I guess the TO's mates won't be discovering it just yet. Is that my fault? How was I to know any better when I came across it in that micro?

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2 hours ago, ParrotRobAndCeCe said:

 

OK so help me understand this then... you mentioned that you play with a GPSr and if there's no mention of the goal on the TB, you don't know it.  But then you said you never release a trackable until after you "retrieve it".  So... if you hold on to it long enough to "retrieve it", then you've got it long enough to read what it's objective is.  The only difference is the phone user knows it in the field and you know it later when you do your retrieve logs.  I'm completely not seeing how your device has anything to do with whether you choose to honor the wishes of the owner or not.

The only difference I can see is if you pull a TB from a cache someplace where it's no longer possible to meet it's goal, and that's unavoidable.  However.... in the (real life) example I used, this bug's goal was CLEARLY to stay in the United States, which is not a really difficult thing to do - especially when the retriever dipped it in several US caches before dragging it overseas.  There's no reason to do that.

It sounds like what you're basically saying is "Go ahead and give it a goal, but don't expect anyone like me to give a rat's a** what it is".  All I'M saying is "Maybe you can't help it on its way to its goal, but the least you can do is not HINDER it deliberately".

 

I've picked up trackables and when I get home find that I moved in the wrong direction (like on a trip home, pick up a TB in Oregon only to find when I'm home in Washington it wanted to stay in Oregon).  If I'm not planning on returning to Oregon soon (it's 2-3 hours away) all I can do is drop in a cache and hope someone moves the "right" way.

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9 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Perhaps I can give my perspective on this. A phone cacher who logs the retrieve while at GZ can immediately see what its goal is and, if they can't comply with it, can immediately drop it back in that cache. Someone who uses a GPSr and logs at home can't do that. For example, a couple of months back I was down in central Sydney for the day and found a trackable in a micro so thought I'd better retrieve it as it was a pretty tight squeeze for it and the log. When I got home and logged it, I found that it had come from overseas with a goal to travel to Sydney where the TO hoped some of his caching friends there might discover it:

 

 

From the logs it appeared an overseas visitor had dropped it in that cache two days before I found it. Oops. A trip to central Sydney is a couple of hours each way for me so I wasn't about to go back down there just to return it to that micro, the best I could do was drop it in a cache on the northern fringes of Sydney a few days later when I was in that vicinity on other business. Sadly I see that the next person to retrieve it has taken it down to Canberra, so I guess the TO's mates won't be discovering it just yet. Is that my fault? How was I to know any better when I came across it in that micro?

Unless the TB has a clear note included with its intentions (these sometimes unfortunately go missing), I naturally don't know its intentions either until I get home and go to log it. I use a preloaded GPS, so don't log in the field, as I like to do proper logs on a computer, rather than the common phone log of TFTC.

However it is annoying when you know a TB has a clear note of its intentions and someone still picks it up and moved it the opposite direction.

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On 2/17/2020 at 6:15 AM, Harry Dolphin said:

I picked up a geocoin that wanted to visit Maine lighthouses.  I took it to a Maine lighthouse!  The next cacher took it to Quebec.  It's been travelling about Quebec for the last three years!  At least it made it to one lighthouse.

 

Whereabouts in Quebec? What's the TB#?

 

21 hours ago, ParrotRobAndCeCe said:

I see your point, but I guess there are multiple ways of looking at it.  If it has "nothing to do with me" then I wouldn't pick it up in the first place.  The fact that you pick it up and put it in your pocket sort of nullifies the "nothing to do with me" argument

 

And this is an interesting point... if one doesn't really care about TBs, or cares enough not to have to pick up and move every TB they come across, one could resign to only pick up and move TBs that have their goals attached, so as not to risk doing something with a TB that's counterproductive to its goal. That would be the most considerate, I'd say.  Perhaps with exceptions being if you found a cache that hasn't been found in a year and has a TB or two in it, picking it up to move it to a more active nearby cache could be helpful.

 

But yeah, is it 'safe' to assume that a TB without an a printed attached goal just wants to move around? In many cases probably.  Definitely not all. Why not only pick up TBs that travel with their goal? (or else check online for any others before picking up)

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58 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Why not only pick up TBs that travel with their goal? (or else check online for any others before picking up)

 

Snipping your quote, we generally pick and choose caches to search for using a GPSr (Oregon 600) not smartphone, in our experience checking for TBs in caches prior to trips is pretty pointless due to so many "ghost" trackables, we count ourselves quite fortunate if a listed trackable is still in a cache.

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

And this is an interesting point... if one doesn't really care about TBs, or cares enough not to have to pick up and move every TB they come across, one could resign to only pick up and move TBs that have their goals attached, so as not to risk doing something with a TB that's counterproductive to its goal. That would be the most considerate, I'd say.  Perhaps with exceptions being if you found a cache that hasn't been found in a year and has a TB or two in it, picking it up to move it to a more active nearby cache could be helpful.

 

Curious Do you even know what the point is in regards to that post ? 

I merely responded to :

 

On 2/16/2020 at 9:22 PM, ParrotRobAndCeCe said:

OK, what's irking me today is people who indiscriminately move travelers without paying attention to what their goals are or what their owners are trying to achieve.

Question: When YOU retrieve a TB, do you pay attention to what its owner wants, or do you just figure it wants to "travel" and put it wherever you like?

 

 - With "I have been following it ever since and saw it make its way to North Carolina, South Carolina and Florida.  Then today I got an email that the Tennessee retriever dropped it off in, of all places, ENGLAND." in that post as well.

 

So I said:

"The majority of trackables we've found simply say they'd like to move cache-to-cache.

 - I'd like to have seen a bit more info,  like to not stay with the same person for over a year...

Once home, if I can help it along, cool.  If not, I'll at least steer it towards it's direction headed and forgetaboutit.

We're not finicky about things that have nothing to do with us, and  don't put watches on trackables not ours.  "

 

There's nothing wrong with that statement....     Sheesh... 

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I'm not sure why you personally took offence to my comment, since I didn't mention you at all, or somehow imply that you didn't care about TBs... :huh: I was offering an idea for managing TBs one might come across as an effort to help reduce the possibility of mis-handling one, and also promoting the idea of including printed goals with TBs, based on a thought raised by the comment I quoted. "Sheesh..."

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19 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Perhaps I can give my perspective on this. A phone cacher who logs the retrieve while at GZ can immediately see what its goal is and, if they can't comply with it, can immediately drop it back in that cache. Someone who uses a GPSr and logs at home can't do that. For example, a couple of months back I was down in central Sydney for the day and found a trackable in a micro so thought I'd better retrieve it as it was a pretty tight squeeze for it and the log. When I got home and logged it, I found that it had come from overseas with a goal to travel to Sydney where the TO hoped some of his caching friends there might discover it:

 

 

From the logs it appeared an overseas visitor had dropped it in that cache two days before I found it. Oops. A trip to central Sydney is a couple of hours each way for me so I wasn't about to go back down there just to return it to that micro, the best I could do was drop it in a cache on the northern fringes of Sydney a few days later when I was in that vicinity on other business. Sadly I see that the next person to retrieve it has taken it down to Canberra, so I guess the TO's mates won't be discovering it just yet. Is that my fault? How was I to know any better when I came across it in that micro?

 

Understood.  But at the very least, you're not going to move it 4,000 miles from Sydney, right?  In the case of the one in tracking, the finder moved it to Europe knowing full well its goal of staying stateside.  That's what irks me. 

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OK, so with all this bickering back and forth, let me try to reset this from the beginning:

 

"What irks you the most?"

 

What's irking me is a geocacher that picks up a travel bug that CLEARLY has the objective/goal of the TB attached right to it, logs it online where the goal is repeated AGAIN, spends a week or two moving it to places that satisfy its goal, THEN MOVES IT FOUR THOUSAND MILES IN THE WRONG DIRECTION knowing full well that's not what the owner wants.

 

Is that better?

 

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2 hours ago, Harry Dolphin said:
7 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Whereabouts in Quebec? What's the TB#?

 

TB78DA1

 

Ack, that may be a bit too far off course for a future road trip... maybe someone else will pick it up and move it closer. d'oh

 

 

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6 hours ago, ParrotRobAndCeCe said:

OK, so with all this bickering back and forth, let me try to reset this from the beginning:

 

"What irks you the most?"

 

What's irking me is a geocacher that picks up a travel bug that CLEARLY has the objective/goal of the TB attached right to it, logs it online where the goal is repeated AGAIN, spends a week or two moving it to places that satisfy its goal, THEN MOVES IT FOUR THOUSAND MILES IN THE WRONG DIRECTION knowing full well that's not what the owner wants.

 

Is that better?

 


Got to ask, though, would the caches the TB was dipped in have been suitable (large enough) for a drop? 😉

 

Something similar happened to me a couple of years ago.  I was in the states on a business trip, and did some very limited caching with my GPSr.  Found two TBs in an infrequently found puzzle cache.  These *didn’t* have goals attached, but I found out that evening that they both wanted to stay in the USA.  I did find a few caches later in the trip, but nothing big enough for a drop so had to bring them back to the UK ... and apologise to the TO.

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Ha! One of my first Bugs had a 'mission' to visit every one of New York State's 62 counties, then return home, about 60 miles north of New York City.


It got picked up and immediately headed west across the country, then back and forth before heading across the pond to England. 

 

All over GB, then south east to the Maldives, Germany, Scandinavia and lots of other exciting places before spending several years on in a lonely cache on a windswept (I imagine) British heath which was eventually archived with my Duck and another trapped inside. Repeated messages to the CO got me several promises to fetch and release. Never happened.

 

Eventually rescued by an archive-hunter, thank you very much.

 

Back around the British Isles for a while, then I got wind that the couple that held it was coming to America for their anniversary! They set up an Event at the base of the statue of Christopher Columbus in Columbus Circle in Manhattan, the southwest corner of New York's Central Park. Come help us celebrate! Awesome! PRACTICALLY in my neighborhood!

 

Problem was, they inadvertently set it up for Labor Day weekend, a holiday here in the States that marks the end of the summer season. We were all barbecuing in our backyards.

 

They had a few people show up, but only a few. I felt guilty about not going, but I couldn't justify the trip. To my wife, I mean. 

 

Anyway, I asked them to stress the TB's mission to whomever they passed it off to. The cacher who got it talked about the mission in his log!

 

Well, it bounced around the Bronx & Queens for a while before, of course, swimming back across to England. Over 38,000 miles and counting, it's in Northern Scotland today.

 

Since then, all my TB's have an attached laminated card. In fact, that 'mission card' is the attached traveler! No more McDonald's toys or rubber ducks for me; too shiny for kids.

 

https://www.geocaching.com/track/map_gm.aspx?ID=3492360

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Postscript: By the way, it's only gotten six of those Counties.

 

Edited by TeamRabbitRun

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5 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

<long story/rant about a TB that didn't go where its owner wanted it to as a result of Thoughtless People.>

 

I cannot imagine a better example of why I avoid trackables like the plague.  It's too bad your servants other cachers didn't comply with your commands wishes.

Edited by fizzymagic
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6 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

 

I cannot imagine a better example of why I avoid trackables like the plague.  It's too bad your servants other cachers didn't comply with your commands wishes.

 

Where's that aggression coming from?

 

My post wasn't a rant; it was a funny-ish story about how my TB release didn't go as expected, and the lessons learned from it. We all know and acknowledge that this is common; that's why we're talking about it.

 

Part of the problem was that there was no 'mission' plainly expressed WITH the TB; a practice as I said I do now. I don't attribute its adventures to, as YOU said, "Thoughtless People" so much as the fact that 'TB mission/goal awareness' isn't common for all sorts of reasons.

 

We here at Team HQ are impressed with that Bug's travels over 9 years, even though it barely knows NY. There's no anger or resentment. We don't think badly of the people who interact with it. On the contrary, we're grateful every time it lands in a new spot as opposed to some kid's toybox or a garbage can.

 

I don't know where you get that "your servants" and "commands" carp, but it came across as a very personal attack. You've misread my post. Of all the contrary stuff in this forum, you let loose on me? Sorry if I touched a nerve.

 

...Bill

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53 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

We here at Team HQ are impressed with that Bug's travels over 9 years, even though it barely knows NY. There's no anger or resentment. We don't think badly of the people who interact with it. On the contrary, we're grateful every time it lands in a new spot as opposed to some kid's toybox or a garbage can.

 

Similar story, only giving me feelings of sadness and remorse - I launched a memorial TB for my mother to travel Iceland and head to Scotland to travel her home country until my trip to the UK when I'd aim to pick it up and give it a grand memorial finale.  It launched from Toronto with a friend who took it and did an amazing job documenting its travels; it changed hands a few times, most of them going out of their way to not only 'visit' the TB in caches but takes photos with it. My trip neared and it ended up only a short detour off our trip itinerary, just outside the town my parents were married in, so I planned a brief delay to make that part of the trip.

 

Shortly before the trip I let the prior holder know about the plan and we were going to work towards having the TB move a little closer so it wouldn't be such a huge detour (it was the opposite direction we were going). They were super courteous and understanding about this TB.

A day before I flew out the prior holder revisited the cache it was in and found no TBs in it. With every effort to try to find it, there was no trace of it. It simply disappeared. There's one logged find between the placement and revisit, someone with 11 finds, and as I recall that log wasn't there until after the trip, and they only cached 5 days and not since.  Whatever happened to that TB in the course of 1 month in a rarely found cache, with loads of detail about its meaning and goal laminated and attached to it the entire way, it didn't complete its goal. It's out there somewhere (even if lying in a garbage heap).

 

No, it's not about "commanding" "servants" to do the bidding of a TB owner. TBs may have specific goals and meaning. And in many cases, it can be devastating if those goals aren't met, let alone TBs simply disappearing without a trace.  Especially if every effort is made to make it clear what its goal is.  We should be grateful for those who understand the value of TBs with goals and go out of their way to help them along, share photos with its travels, even rescue them - whether to revive them, pick them up after being in some dead zone for an extended amount of time, or help them along on or towards their final goals.

 

So likewise, it's a big irk when people either steal, trash, or simply ignore goals especially when they're traveling with the physical TB.

 

On a lighter note, the first TB I ever released, a tribute to my cat at the time, launched in a desert outside San Diego, eventually made it back near to my home for me to pick up, after traveling the world. I still have it in my collection at home, beat up and tattered and all. THAT was an awesome accomplishment.

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I've done several visits to New Zealand and during my last recent trip, as usual, I ended up finding buried caches. From memory I've found about five or six out of 108 NZ finds. That's close to the same number I've found here in Oz from over 3000 finds. So, are 5% of all NZ caches buried? I wonder?

All but one were containers placed in PVC tubes buried in the ground in public parks. The exception was a fake sprinkler tap in a genuine  box buried in a large public park with no sprinklers anywhere nearby.

As usual these caches have many favourite points and logs commenting on such a "unique" hide or camo. And, from reading back through the logs, no mention of non compliance of guidelines. Are NZ cachers afraid of being labelled Cache Cops if they do? Hmmm.

I'm guessing it's a gradual, creeping, monkey see monkey do kind of thing. One thing common to almost all was damp logs.

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12 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

Where's that aggression coming from?

 

My post wasn't a rant; it was a funny-ish story about how my TB release didn't go as expected, and the lessons learned from it. We all know and acknowledge that this is common; that's why we're talking about it.

 

Sorry about any misunderstanding; given the title of the thread and the lack of any trace of humor, I assumed you were complaining about your TB not completing its mission.

 

When I was new to the game, I embraced TBs with vigor; however, now I avoid them to distance myself from the huge quantity of angst that surrounds them. This thread is a microcosm of that angst.

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12 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

 

Sorry about any misunderstanding; given the title of the thread and the lack of any trace of humor, I assumed you were complaining about your TB not completing its mission.

 

When I was new to the game, I embraced TBs with vigor; however, now I avoid them to distance myself from the huge quantity of angst that surrounds them. This thread is a microcosm of that angst.

 

Well, I understand your take on my post; thanks for the note back.

 

 

"...lack of any trace of humor!!??" ---- OOhhh - pierced through the heart! I might as well go back to bed and hope Friday's better.

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14 hours ago, colleda said:

I've done several visits to New Zealand and during my last recent trip, as usual, I ended up finding buried caches. From memory I've found about five or six out of 108 NZ finds. That's close to the same number I've found here in Oz from over 3000 finds. So, are 5% of all NZ caches buried? I wonder?

All but one were containers placed in PVC tubes buried in the ground in public parks. The exception was a fake sprinkler tap in a genuine  box buried in a large public park with no sprinklers anywhere nearby.

 

I can't count the times we found buried caches. These days most are in a PVC tube as cache sizes are getting smaller but many are placed in a wooden "cellar" with a lid which is then covered with leafs. It can be a challenge find these caches as most of the time we have to poke around with a stick until we hear the familiar "tok".

A while ago we found a large fridge/freezer buried in the woods. It had several playmobil scenes inside and 2 large plastic boxes for TBs and swag + an ammo box with log. That's why they get the many (well deserved) favorite points B)

We also found many buried caches in the Netherlands and I remember at least one buried cache in New Zealand too.

It's one of the hiding methods we're always expecting.

 

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3 minutes ago, on4bam said:
14 hours ago, colleda said:

I've done several visits to New Zealand and during my last recent trip, as usual, I ended up finding buried caches. From memory I've found about five or six out of 108 NZ finds. That's close to the same number I've found here in Oz from over 3000 finds. So, are 5% of all NZ caches buried? I wonder?

All but one were containers placed in PVC tubes buried in the ground in public parks. The exception was a fake sprinkler tap in a genuine  box buried in a large public park with no sprinklers anywhere nearby.

 

I can't count the times we found buried caches. These days most are in a PVC tube as cache sizes are getting smaller but many are placed in a wooden "cellar" with a lid which is then covered with leafs. It can be a challenge find these caches as most of the time we have to poke around with a stick until we hear the familiar "tok".

 

It could also be a challenging find since the guidelines only allow buried caches as an exception, thus one would not expect to have to search for a buried container.  

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4 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

It could also be a challenging find since the guidelines only allow buried caches as an exception, thus one would not expect to have to search for a buried container.  

 

Should every cache that's not 100% following guidelines be archived it would be better to start collecting stamps as there would be a lot less (and certainly less interesting) caches left. As I've written several times before, one size fits all guidelines don't work as there are many regional differences in what is seen as "normal" or "allowed".

 

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

It could also be a challenging find since the guidelines only allow buried caches as an exception, thus one would not expect to have to search for a buried container.  

 

While caching with a friend, we had pretty much given up on an ammo box hide, until he told me "Oh, I know where it is.  You're standing on it".  The lid was flush with the ground, and he heard metal creaking. :P

 

I have one hidden in the void of an old tree stump.  It's in a forested area next to soccer fields where caches got muggled too often.  So while wondering if I could place a cache there that might endure, and how big a container it could be, I almost broke my leg as I stepped into a stump hole, one of dozens.  The selected hole was so deep, the container would disappear into the earth.  I had to add some pieces of wood as filler.  Part of my maintenance plan is keeping the box from falling way out of reach.  But the spot accepts a 50-Caliber Ammo Box. :)

 

It's best that these are rare around here.  One of the most famous old local caches is a 5-gallon paint bucket in a rather large eroded Georgia-clay pit.  It probably began as a buried bucket with just the lid showing at the surface.  Today it's not what ya call "hidden".  It doesn't get archived because "you better not archive it, or else".  That's why.  :ph34r:

 

Edited by kunarion

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1 hour ago, on4bam said:

 

Should every cache that's not 100% following guidelines be archived it would be better to start collecting stamps as there would be a lot less (and certainly less interesting) caches left. As I've written several times before, one size fits all guidelines don't work as there are many regional differences in what is seen as "normal" or "allowed".

 

 

The style of caching can cause harm. Did the property owner or manager allow digging on the property? Does the description say that permission was granted? How does one find the buried item? Some may not use the tapping with a hiking stick method. Some will rack an area clean if they think they have to find a buried item. I've seen this happen in my area for a D5 cache. People literally brought rakes and raked a wide section of the forest (and didn't find the D5 cache--perhaps they need to bring shovels). 

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1 hour ago, on4bam said:

 

Should every cache that's not 100% following guidelines be archived it would be better to start collecting stamps as there would be a lot less (and certainly less interesting) caches left. As I've written several times before, one size fits all guidelines don't work as there are many regional differences in what is seen as "normal" or "allowed".

 

 

I wasn't suggesting that it should be archived.  I was just saying that if the guidelines stipulate that caches are not buried,   and the assumption is that the cache owner has complied with the guidelines, then I wouldn't expect that I would need a shovel or to poke a stick in the ground to located a buried container.  

 

Buried caches may be "common" in Belgium (maybe that explains the DNFs I've had there), but the guidelines are global and the exception only allows for caches to be buried with specific permission from the land owner.  Technically, buried caches are not "allowed".   When you geocache in other regions do you follow the practices that are "normal" in your region?  

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We've found a few "trap door" caches our first couple years, some by well-known cachers.   Haven't found any lately...

Since our Reviewer reads these, it wasn't our state.   :D

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I wasn't suggesting that it should be archived.

 

I wasn't suggesting that you suggested caches should be archived :lol:

 

 

1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

When you geocache in other regions do you follow the practices that are "normal" in your region?  

 

Yup. That's why wrote I found buried caches in different countries.

BTW, burying is not allowed, screwing something to a tree is not allowed... and there's more... and yet such caches do have permission from the equivalent of park rangers which means they are OK in my book. The same goes for "no interaction", we found a few of them too (in different continents, so not a local "thing")

To keep on topic: Too much regulation irks me.

 

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1 hour ago, on4bam said:

To keep on topic: Too much regulation irks me.

The way I see regulation in geocaching is that it's an attempt to solidify the spirit of the geocaching, while always allowing for exceptions. So that when people see exceptions, the first thing they think isn't "hey this must be okay" but rather "this must have been a special exception" (or else "this is wrong and needs reviewer attention").  Trying to teach people that the foundation of geocaching is what is fundamentally acceptable - rather than "whatever I see must be allowed by default across the board" which many people think. So the more that "geocaches aren't buried / attached to trees / on private property" is repeated emphatically, the better it'll be for the community, especially when the exceptions are made clear (most of which, I'd think, still aren't).

 

And then there will still be regional differences where reviewers may not apply the same level of standards for cache disclaimers which just confuses the perception of what is/isn't allowed :P   This is why (at least in my region) reviewers are now asking for an explanation of the physical hides, so they can make that analytical judgment before publishing (allowed? or exception?)

 

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Hints that are misleading

Hints that only make sense after I find the cache

Hints are not mandatory. If you don't want to leave a helpful hint leave that field blank

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2 hours ago, ras_oscar said:

Hints that are misleading

Hints that only make sense after I find the cache

Hints are not mandatory. If you don't want to leave a helpful hint leave that field blank

 

x2

 

Hints that say no hint needed, or easy find.

 

Or no hints in high muggle areas and they want you to be stealthy.

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10 hours ago, ras_oscar said:

Hints that are misleading

Hints that only make sense after I find the cache

 

The worst are the ones that are filler only, but I can't tell that they aren't in fact "hintful".  I'm standing in mud while racking my brain about what the hint means.

 

But one of my biggest irks is not that the hints are wrong, because I'll check out every shred of a clue I can get.  I'm irked that I'm really bad at Geocaching.  With practice, I'd swear I've actually become worse at it.  Looks like fun, though!  :anicute:

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9 hours ago, MNTA said:

 

x2

 

Hints that say no hint needed, or easy find.

 

Or no hints in high muggle areas and they want you to be stealthy.

 

Agree. This was, of course, MORE of a problem back in the paper-caching days, when we'd plan a trip to nail five or ten hides, print the cache descriptions and take them with us.

 

In THAT scenario, it made sense to have the hint encrypted with the ROT13 key printed right next to it, on every cache page. If you determined you need the hint, standing there at Ground Zero you'd grab a pencil and work it out. (Yes, kids, that's why that ROT13 thing is there! For back when the internet was steam-powered!)

 

So, a hint that wasn't a HINT was annoying, because it was a waste of time and effort, and gave you hope on your way to the hide that "at least if I get in a bind, there's a hint."

 

Long, irrelevant hints sucked. 

 

These days, with phone or GPS caching, meh. CLICK - "Oh, that's no help; what a jerk."

 

There are still people paper-caching, but very few. And, as you said, if no hint is necessary, don't WRITE that, just don't add a 'hint'!

 

But, I don't get your last line. If I go to a place with a lot of people around, I don't need a hint to tell me to be stealthy. I would consider THAT hint to be unnecessary. Am I missing your point?

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6 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

But, I don't get your last line. If I go to a place with a lot of people around, I don't need a hint to tell me to be stealthy. I would consider THAT hint to be unnecessary. Am I missing your point?

 

I take it to mean a good hint is important in busy locations. It helps finders get in and out of there quickly, without drawing too much attention. 

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I was (and still am) majorly irked because one of my hides has disappeared, with three travel bugs recently placed in it.   I realize this stuff happens, and as a CO, I need to deal with it, but it still irks me!  This was the middle of a series of puzzles, with a bonus 4th that you need all the previous 3 to find the bonus. This was the largest of the containers, people liked it as it was hidden from muggles but easily found by geocachers, and big enough for TB's.  The fact that it is a series of puzzles, on a walking/biking trail keeps it off the radar for casual cachers who are those most likely to muggle things up.

 

It had 3 TB's in it (dropped January1) that most of the subsequent finders "discovered" but didn't take with, last find and discover was Feb. 19.  Today it's missing.  :mad:  I disabled it, and will go out in a the next day or two with a replacement container, and if it doesn't magically show up in the meantime, I'll have to mark those three TB's as missing.  Grrrrrr.

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On 2/26/2020 at 11:23 PM, ras_oscar said:

Hints that are misleading

Hints that only make sense after I find the cache

Hints are not mandatory. If you don't want to leave a helpful hint leave that field blank

Yup. I changed one of my hints because it had cachers looking in the wrong location. The wrong location was a electrical utility box. Yikes! 

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COs who don't maintain their caches and then ignore comments in logs about needed maintenance and also ignore NMs. Then when finally after more then two years when a NA is made they write silly comments like, " will disable this cache since the full log upsets people" :rolleyes:.         "and havnt had a chance to replace it"  (In over two years :lol:)

Found it 22/Jan/2018   Log is very full. Managed to shoehorn myself in, but it needs replacing ASAP.

Needs Maintenance 23/Jan/2018         As per found log, the paper log scroll is full and needs replacing.

(CO) Write note   08/Feb/2018          organising a replacement log

Found it           Found but no room for a name to go on

Found it           No room on log so put initials in tiny spots! TFTC

Found it           we managed to squeeze our initials in random spots

Found it           Easy find TFTC needs a new sign scroll though ☺

Found it           Log full unable to sign but have photo if required

Found it           the logbook was full.

Needs Maintenance 02/Oct/2018      The logbook if full and needs replacing.

Found it           Log full (They supplied a photograph of the full log)

Found it           log full (They also supplied a photograph of the full log)

Found it           another full nano log

Found it           Log full

Write note      26/Apr/2019    Maintenance - Log full

Found it           Log book is completely full and needs replacing. TFTC.

Needs Maintenance 15/May/2019    This geocacher reported that the logbook is full.

Found it           The log is full.

Found it           Needs new log - nowhere to write.

Needs Maintenance  09/Sep/2019    Needs new log please.

Found it           Still needs new log.

Found it           I managed to squeeze my name on the log

Found it           Found it but unfortunately the log was full

Found it           05/Mar/2020

I found a full log and had to squeeze in initials in space 11, sharing with another finder.

 

Needs Archived         06/Mar/2020

Four NMs going back to 23/Jan/2018, and still the full log has not been replaced. Shame, as it's a nice place for a cache.

 

Owner Maintenance  06/Mar/2020

i will disable this cache since the full log upsets people.. and havnt had a chance to replace it

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Yowza.

And while fundamentally, a full log doesn't mean you can't log the cache found (a minor technicality that's not a huge hindrance to geocaching) - it can also bring people out of the woodwork to "find" the cache from the couch since there's no room for the signature evidence. Once that ball is rolling, you end up with a handful of legit finders who can't sign, plus non-finders who capitalize on the CO's laziness, and of course a lazy cache owner who's letting it all slip by without a care in the world. *sigh*

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Listing a micro as a small, because it’s not a nano, is the most common annoyance I find. Another is putting “none needed” or “no hints” in the hint field, instead of just leaving it blank. 

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On 3/6/2020 at 12:14 AM, Goldenwattle said:

COs who don't maintain their caches and then ignore comments in logs about needed maintenance and also ignore NMs. Then when finally after more then two years when a NA is made they write silly comments like, " will disable this cache since the full log upsets people" :rolleyes:.         "and havnt had a chance to replace it"  (In over two years :lol:)

 

 

Went geocaching today. Got 3 DNFs. Saw this OM log that reminded me of GW's irk.

 

Wet log reports for 1 year. 

 

11/25/2018

...the log is very wet, and likely to freeze solid soon

 

12/02/2018

... Log is quite wet. 

 

 

12/28/2018

Logsheet is completely soaked. 

 

 

08/16/2019

... there were many ripped up papers in here that were damp so I removed them.

 

10/17/2019
This one was very wet. I dumped out the water
 
Finally an NM on 10/21/2019

could not sign it - too wet so will not log a FOUND- rules say one has to SIGN it !

 

Followed by this OM in Nov 2019

Most people would simply replace the log. I've done just that. This one has a nice new dry log. The old one wasn't all that bad, but we replaced it anyway! 

 

 

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On 5/23/2013 at 2:42 PM, avroair said:

What would you consider a Deadly Sin in geocaching? What irks you most? I'm compiling a list for an event...

 

I wonder if the OP is still compiling this list?  :laughing:

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38 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I wonder if the OP is still compiling this list?  

 

Over 7 years in the making!

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1 hour ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

I wonder if the OP is still compiling this list?  :laughing:

 

Doesn't matter!

This thread is our cathartic center; our opportunity to howl at the moon in frustration.

Anyplace else, and it's "What's up with him; no coffee this morning?"

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3 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I wonder if the OP is still compiling this list?  :laughing:

Speaking of irks... It irks me when the OP deletes a thread, and everyone's contributions vanish.

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This seems like the place to maybe get some advice.  I recently did a Virtual Cache which required me to gather answers and send them to the cache owner.  How long should I wait to hear back from the cache owner (who gives permission to log the find) before getting irked?

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5 minutes ago, StarkIndustries2020 said:

This seems like the place to maybe get some advice.  I recently did a Virtual Cache which required me to gather answers and send them to the cache owner.  How long should I wait to hear back from the cache owner (who gives permission to log the find) before getting irked?

 

Once you send your answers, you may log your find online before hearing back from the cache owner.  This guidance from the Help Center supersedes any contrary statement that you might see on the cache page.

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19 minutes ago, StarkIndustries2020 said:

This seems like the place to maybe get some advice.  I recently did a Virtual Cache which required me to gather answers and send them to the cache owner.  How long should I wait to hear back from the cache owner (who gives permission to log the find) before getting irked?

Don't wait. I don't hear back from CO's half the time.

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Well, we have a few newbies finding our caches, which is great, but one messaged me to say one of our logs is almost full and to "replace" it. We checked on it right away and there are 15 spaces left in the log for cachers to sign. When did newbies become so demanding? Who taught them this?  lol

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