What Irks you most?

[+Goldenwattle]

1 hour ago, colleda said:

Talking about steps as in stairs, not paces.

That makes it easier then. I was thinking of a multi where the steps (many) were 'paces'. (They had stairs as well in this multi.) However, even with stairs, it then always comes down to was the top landing counted a a step or not. Ladders are similar. They are sometimes built into a structure and the rungs are not always clear, as the rungs can be structure, so are these counted.

[+barefootjeff]

On 1/1/2020 at 11:00 AM, barefootjeff said:

Today's irk for me is people who don't put the cache back where they found it. I have a 2.5/2.5 traditional in a wet cave (although it's bone dry at the moment with the drought), which I'm pretty OCD about checking on each time it gets a find as it has a covering rock that has to be wedged against the side to prevent the cache washing away in a flash flood. It had a group of out-of-town cachers find it a couple of days ago so I went around this morning to check, only to find the covering rock was exactly in place but there was no cache behind it. Dadgum, I said, or words to that effect, and was about to write it off as muggled but thought I should do a thorough search of the cave just in case. Lucky I did as I found it sitting on a ledge in the roof, in full sight of any muggles who might go in there.

 

There've been some more logs since then so I went back over for another check. Just as well as this is what I found in the cave:

 

 

The cache is supposed to be behind the rock, with the rock standing vertically and wedged against the side to both conceal it and protect it from flash flooding, like this:

 

 

In natural light it looks like this:

 

 

So far in the cache's four and a half years, that's been enough to shield it from the kids that are often climbing around these rocks, as well as the occasional flooding, and I'd really like to keep it that way. If it goes missing I'll archive it as I doubt I'll be able to find a replacement imp. I'll be glad when the school holidays are over and all the muggles-with-apps go home.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by barefootjeff

[+BethDaddyKaty]

15 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

There've been some more logs since then so I went back over for another check. Just as well as this is what I found in the cave:

A couple of my caches weren't replaced properly. I've started tying string to them, even a very long one when the cache is in a precarious location and they may need to retreat to safety. I just wrap the string around the cache whilst required. May not look ideal but it does seem to provide a prompt to cachers to return it to the right location.

 

Can understand why you haven't in your case though, the imp looks amazing and it would be a shame to detract from it. Frustrating when people don't rehide properly.

Edited January 2, 2020 by daddybeth

[+HunterandSamuel]

There's another cache that we found that deserves the irk title.  It didn't irk me at the time. Maybe after reading this thread...I'm becoming an irk detective. Traveling we found an interesting cache description at a service station. It said they wanted to try something different than the same old cache container.  We were intrigued and stopped to find it. It was a plain ziploc baggy with swag and a log,  hidden inside a guardrail. lol 

[+HunterandSamuel]

21 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

There've been some more logs since then so I went back over for another check. Just as well as this is what I found in the cave:

 

 

The cache is supposed to be behind the rock, with the rock standing vertically and wedged against the side to both conceal it and protect it from flash flooding, like this:

 

 

In natural light it looks like this:

 

 

So far in the cache's four and a half years, that's been enough to shield it from the kids that are often climbing around these rocks, as well as the occasional flooding, and I'd really like to keep it that way. If it goes missing I'll archive it as I doubt I'll be able to find a replacement imp. I'll be glad when the school holidays are over and all the muggles-with-apps go home.

 

 

 

Wow. Just wow! That is a great cache and hide!!!!!!!!

[+HunterandSamuel]

A Saturday morning irk. What to do?  Recovering from a nasty cold, this morning we get a notice of a new cache published. Although it was raining and cold and I'm suffering,  we jumped in the car and found the location. Now to find the cache in the freezing rain. The coords were off and had us across the road. Anyhow, we became the FTF.  Yay! We quickly logged it online as FTF and then noticed the cache's paper log already had four signatures dated 12/30/19 and 1/01/20. The cache was published on 1/4/20!! It was obvious they were family members and not geocache screen names. The CO is new and only has I hide and 7 finds. I want this FTF and deserve it! I was too sick to do the old and new souvenir. We took a photo of the log with the signatures and also a photo of our FTF online log in case there is a disagreement with the CO. I'm trying to be gentle with the CO because obviously she/he is new to geocaching.  

Edited January 4, 2020 by HunterandSamuel

[+HunterandSamuel]

PS. This is what I logged online (with all my irk complaining we did give it a favorite because the goose was so cool and made us jump!): FTF! Although there are signatures written in December on the cache log (published 1/4/20) but not logged online so a bit confused.

[+niraD]

19 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

We quickly logged it online as FTF and then noticed the cache's paper log already had four signatures dated 12/30/19 and 1/01/20. The cache was published on 1/4/20!! It was obvious they were family members and not geocache screen names.

[+kunarion]

14 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

PS. This is what I logged online (with all my irk complaining we did give it a favorite because the goose was so cool and made us jump!): FTF! Although there are signatures written in December on the cache log (published 1/4/20) but not logged online so a bit confused.

 

That's a much-discussed topic. 

 

Groundspeak sells FTF Trackables and places ads for Premium Membership about “getting that FTF!”, but doesn't define what “First To Find” is, it's not a Geocaching.com stat.

 

So you may log that you're the First To Find on any given day, and someone may log that same way tomorrow. Regardless of whether or not “FTF” is officially recognized, it's fine to “claim” it as long as you're not adding to the confusion. For example, you might log that you're “FTF after publication” or something.  Otherwise the persons who found the cache before you did may be surprised that you became the "first".

[+HunterandSamuel]

5 minutes ago, niraD said:

LOL Uh oh. 

[+HunterandSamuel]

27 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

That's a much-discussed topic. 

 

Groundspeak sells FTF Trackables and places ads for Premium Membership about “getting that FTF!”, but doesn't define what “First To Find” is, it's not a Geocaching.com stat.

 

So you may log that you're the First To Find on any given day, and someone may log that same way tomorrow. Regardless of whether or not “FTF” is officially recognized, it's fine to “claim” it as long as you're not adding to the confusion. For example, you might log that you're “FTF after publication” or something.  Otherwise the persons who found the cache before you did may be surprised that you became the "first".

The log date were before it was even published and before it was even submitted to be published.  Logged 12/30/19. Submitted 12/31/19. Published 1/04/20. And then there's another date of 1/1/20. So I'm guessing they are either family members or friends who were told by the CO about the cache and location before it was even published. How else would someone know where a cache is located without navigating on GPS?  It's a form of geocheating IMHO so it's mine, FTF, and I'm keeping it.

Edited January 4, 2020 by HunterandSamuel

[+cerberus1]

4 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

The log date were before it was even published and before it was even submitted to be published. 12/30/19. Submitted 12/31/19. Published 1/04/20. And then there's another date of 1/1/20 with no name. So I'm guessing they are either family members or friends who were told by the CO about the cache and location before it was even published.

How else would someone know where a cache is located without navigating on GPS?  It's a form of geocheating IMHO so it's mine, FTF, and I'm keeping it.

 

We walked around six miles one way once, across a bouldered cliff part of the way for a FTF (the other 2/3rds was a FTF monster).   

Eight names were in that log dated five months earlier, and a month after the CO placed it while deer hunting.  He does that a lot.

You'd be surprised how many others think that area's a good spot too.   

Ever go to what you thought was the middle of nowhere and there's litter all around ?   

 

 

[+HunterandSamuel]

5 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We walked around six miles one way once, across a bouldered cliff part of the way for a FTF (the other 2/3rds was a FTF monster).   

Eight names were in that log dated five months earlier, and a month after the CO placed it while deer hunting.  He does that a lot.

You'd be surprised how many others think that area's a good spot too.   

Ever go to what you thought was the middle of nowhere and there's litter all around ?   

 

 

I don't get your point. Did you keep the FTF? For people to sign a log before the CO even submitted it for publishing should not be honored. Same with the person who signed the log before it's even published. 

[+HunterandSamuel]

Now, our son had a similar experience but it's more of a major irk to him than anything because the FTF was legit, the cacher just didn't sign the log online that he was FTF yet,  just the paper log. Our son traveled many miles in the wee hours of the morning, still in his pajamas, to get that FTF only to find someone before him signed the log already. He would have stayed home in bed if he had known someone was already FTF. LOL Yes, he's a FTF junkie. 

[+kunarion]

 

2 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Now, our son had a similar experience but it's more of a major irk to him than anything because the FTF was legit, the cacher just didn't sign the log online that he was FTF yet,  just the paper log. Our son traveled many miles in the wee hours of the morning, still in his pajamas, to get that FTF only to find someone before him signed the log already. He would have stayed home in bed if he had known someone was already FTF. LOL Yes, he's a FTF junkie. 

 

Your son needs to get up earlier.

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

8 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I don't get your point. Did you keep the FTF? For people to sign a log before the CO even submitted it for publishing should not be honored. Same with the person who signed the log before it's even published. 

 

Many caches are placed and offered for finds before "publishing", especially when a new park opens to caches.  The first person to find it sometimes presumes to be the first.  Which we know is wrong, because the one who found it after those people is actually the first. 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by kunarion

[+HunterandSamuel]

1 minute ago, kunarion said:

Many caches are placed and offered for finds before "publishing"

Odd. How does one do this? Word of mouth? Emails to friends? It's also not an official geocache then, right? Until published, if it's even published. 

[+cerberus1]

Just now, HunterandSamuel said:

I don't get your point. Did you keep the FTF? For people to sign a log before the CO even submitted it for publishing should not be honored. Same with the person who signed the log before it's even published. 

 

The point was many people (non cachers) find caches. 

You're assuming that the cache was signed by family members, when someone could have simply spotted it.  Happens a lot.

What did someone signing the log have to do with you ?

You're concerned about a side-game that has no rules...  

I've found a few dozen unpublished caches over the years.   Most never made it to being published.

 

Also, we know of a few COs who still have someone "beta test" their caches for issues.

They'll sign the log (they found it), but won't log in until after the first log or two.  They don't claim FTF either.

 - There's nothing wrong with that.

[+HunterandSamuel]

7 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

 

Your son needs to get up earlier.

 

LOL!!!!! 

[+HunterandSamuel]

3 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

The point was many people (non cachers) find caches. 

You're assuming that the cache was signed by family members, when someone could have simply spotted it.  Happens a lot.

What did someone signing the log have to do with you ?

 

 

No, there was no way someone could spot this cache without being published. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

You're concerned about a side-game that has no rules...  

 

A side game? Then how come official geocache logs have "FTF" at the top? 

 

 

 

[+kunarion]

1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Odd. How does one do this? Word of mouth? Emails to friends? It's also not an official geocache then, right? Until published, if it's even published. 

 

It's sometimes a special Event, but also often just advertised as a "kickoff" celebration or a "poker run" or something, by a local Geocaching organization or a county.  In that case, the caches are not online yet.  I'm handed a list of 25 new caches, which I get to enter into my GPS without making a typo.  I love that!  Not.

[+cerberus1]

10 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Now, our son had a similar experience but it's more of a major irk to him than anything because the FTF was legit, the cacher just didn't sign the log online that he was FTF yet,  just the paper log.

Our son traveled many miles in the wee hours of the morning, still in his pajamas, to get that FTF only to find someone before him signed the log already. He would have stayed home in bed if he had known someone was already FTF. LOL Yes, he's a FTF junkie. 

 

Again, you're creating "rules" for a side-game that has none.    

 

We see this a lot with phone cachers ...assuming that everyone can, or wants to log immediately. 

We know of a couple who won't log their FTF because once FTF's noted, that brand-new cache often sits for a week before folks head to it.

 - The other 2/3rds would have gone back to bed, and logged in after breakfast... 

[+HunterandSamuel]

13 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

 

Your son needs to get up earlier.

 

PS. As soon as the bing went off on his cell, he jumped out of bed and drove to the cache!  Very competitive FTF cachers!

[+HunterandSamuel]

1 minute ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Again, you're creating "rules" for a side-game that has none.    

 

 

 

How so??? Try to remember these are irks. As for my irk...it's legitimate. 

[+cerberus1]

1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

A side game? Then how come official geocache logs have "FTF" at the top? 

 

When did Groundspeak place FTF in our stats?   

[+HunterandSamuel]

4 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

It's sometimes a special Event, but also often just advertised as a "kickoff" celebration or a "poker run" or something, by a local Geocaching organization or a county.  In that case, the caches are not online yet.  I'm handed a list of 25 new caches, which I get to enter into my GPS without making a typo.  I love that!  Not.

Quote

 

Ah, so it's not associated with geocaching.com? I don't belong to any other geocache organizations. 

[+HunterandSamuel]

1 minute ago, cerberus1 said:

 

When did Groundspeak place FTF in our stats?   

What do you mean? You are about to give me another irk to irk about. 

[+kunarion]

15 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Ah, so it's not associated with geocaching.com? I don't belong to any other geocache organizations. 

 

Lists of cache descriptions and coordinates may be handed out when the park opens, the celebration begins, everybody arrives, and the caches are not yet online.  They were supposed to be activated at 10am, but they aren't online yet.

 

I was at a small local Event where coordinates to a pending cache were given as a "prize".  My friend "BUGGO49" won the coordinates, but it was getting dark out and she didn't want to go hunt it by herself, so I went along for the ride and helped out with an unacceptably dim flashlight at a pull-off in a field of tall weeds next to a bridge.  She signed the log first, I spotted the container first, and another cacher found it after it was published.

 

Anyway, there really are lots and lots of discussions about FTF already.  Here are some of them:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by kunarion

[+cerberus1]

29 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

A side game? Then how come official geocache logs have "FTF" at the top? 

24 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

When did Groundspeak place FTF in our stats?   

 

21 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

What do you mean? You are about to give me another irk to irk about. 

 

The fact is that your stats page on this site has never shown FTF...  It's a "side game" to the hobby that is Geocaching.

It's simply something the site realizes some people do.  

When we first started, the site mentioned notifications for FTFs as good reason for being a PM.  

That (and FP) are still the functions that we use that requires a PM.

Edited January 4, 2020 by cerberus1

[+Aguila317]

32 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Odd. How does one do this? Word of mouth? Emails to friends? It's also not an official geocache then, right? Until published, if it's even published. 

 

Easy!

 

I spotted a local CO hiding a new cache while I was some distance away. After she left, I went back to see what she had been doing. The new log sheet already had 3 family members names on it at the time of placement even though the cache wasn't published for further 4 days. All 3 claimed joint FTF even though though only one of them lives locally. 

 

[+HunterandSamuel]

12 minutes ago, kunarion said:

Lists of cache descriptions and coordinates may be handed out when the park opens, the celebration begins, everybody arrives, and the caches are not yet online.  They were supposed to be activated at 10am, but they aren't online yet.

Ah, I understand. This cache wasn't in an event like that. 

[+HunterandSamuel]

14 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

Lists of cache descriptions and coordinates may be handed out when the park opens, the celebration begins, everybody arrives, and the caches are not yet online.  They were supposed to be activated at 10am, but they aren't online yet.

 

I was at a small local Event where coordinates to a pending cache were given as a "prize".  My friend "BUGGO49" won the coordinates, but it was getting dark out and she didn't want to go hunt it by herself, so I went along for the ride and helped out with an unacceptably dim flashlight at a pull-off in a field of tall weeds next to a bridge.  She signed the log first, I spotted the container first, and another cacher found it after it was published.

 

Anyway, there really are lots and lots of discussions about FTF already.  Here are some of them:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the links. I also want to note that the people who found the cache before it was submitted or published didn't write FTF in the log. But I did! 

[+HunterandSamuel]

6 minutes ago, Aguila317 said:

 

Easy!

 

I spotted a local CO hiding a new cache while I was some distance away. After she left, I went back to see what she had been doing. The new log sheet already had 3 family members names on it at the time of placement even though the cache wasn't published for further 4 days. All 3 claimed joint FTF even though though only one of them lives locally. 

 

LOL What if the reviewer didn't publish the cache? A cache (a traditional cache to hide, not at a park event, etc.) isn't considered an official geocaching.com cache until published, right? 

[+HunterandSamuel]

21 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

 

The fact is that your stats page on this site has never shown FTF...  It's a "side game" to the hobby that is Geocaching.

It's simply something the site realizes some people do.  

When we first started, the site mentioned notifications for FTFs as good reason for being a PM.  

That (and FP) are still the functions that we use that requires a PM.

 

We aren't discussing stats now are we? Let me have my irk, please. 

[+cerberus1]

1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

We aren't discussing stats now are we? Let me have my irk, please. 

 

Okay , I'm done...  If you can't stay on-topic I can't help you with your questions.

[+HunterandSamuel]

13 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Okay , I'm done...  If you can't stay on-topic I can't help you with your questions.

Good. I'm on topic, you when off it with stats. Stats had nothing to do with my questions.  

[+The Jester]

30 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

LOL What if the reviewer didn't publish the cache? A cache (a traditional cache to hide, not at a park event, etc.) isn't considered an official geocaching.com cache until published, right? 

There are other listing services besides GC.  So if a cache is listed elsewhere and found, then listed on GC and you find it, are you FTF?  No.

 

As for online logging, I found a cache in northern BC almost a year after it was published.  The only online log was a DNF a couple of weeks before we got there.  When I opened the log, there were three logs from the first month after publishing, but none of them did an online log.  Does that make me FTF?  No.

 

[+HunterandSamuel]

Another irk. Geocaching is also based on a honor system. Is it honorable to declare a FTF on a cache before it's published or even submitted for publication? Recently I deleted a log on a cache because fellow cachers here felt it was a "throwdown", something I never heard of before. But nowhere is it mentioned that a "throwdown" is against geocaching.com rules. It's discouraged but not an offense. But here I'm finding that signing a log in a cache before it's even published or submitted for publication is fine and a FTF claim is okay. Sure there aren't "stats" for FTFs but that doesn't justify what is the right thing to do...sign a log when a cache is published and not before.   

Sure it's considered by some that claiming a FTF before the cache is published is "only" a "side game". If that's the case...then many of the  complaints about unethical behavior can also be considered just a "side game" and shouldn't get people uptight about. 

[+HunterandSamuel]

9 minutes ago, The Jester said:

There are other listing services besides GC.  So if a cache is listed elsewhere and found, then listed on GC and you find it, are you FTF?  No.

 

 

That's not my point and isn't the case here.  

[+The Jester]

7 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Another irk. Geocaching is also based on a honor system. Is it honorable to declare a FTF on a cache before it's published or even submitted for publication? Recently I deleted a log on a cache because fellow cachers here felt it was a "throwdown", something I never heard of before. But nowhere is it mentioned that a "throwdown" is against geocaching.com rules. It's discouraged but not an offense. But here I'm finding that signing a log in a cache before it's even published or submitted for publication is fine and a FTF claim is okay. Sure there aren't "stats" for FTFs but that doesn't justify what is the right thing to do...sign a log when a cache is published and not before.   

Sure it's considered by some that claiming a FTF before the cache is published is "only" a "side game". If that's the case...then many of the  complaints about unethical behavior can also be considered just a "side game" and shouldn't get people uptight about. 

So, if someone finds a cache before it published (and there are lots of examples of that happening) they can't sign the log?  Bull, an accidental find is still a valid find.

[+HunterandSamuel]

1 minute ago, The Jester said:

So, if someone finds a cache before it published (and there are lots of examples of that happening) they can't sign the log?  Bull, an accidental find is still a valid find.

Sigh. Pay attention. It was not an accidental find. 

[+The Jester]

8 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

That's not my point and isn't the case here.  

Your point seems to be that a cache isn't a cache until published on GC.  The co-ords to a cache can be listed elsewhere - on a different listing service or privately - before GC, but that doesn't make a non-cache.  You're irked because someone signed before you, that happens.

[+HunterandSamuel]

Just now, The Jester said:

Your point seems to be that a cache isn't a cache until published on GC.  The co-ords to a cache can be listed elsewhere - on a different listing service or privately - before GC, but that doesn't make a non-cache.  You're irked because someone signed before you, that happens.

Don't tell me what I'm irked about. When did the irk thread become a debate thread to debate ones irks? I'm not irked because someone signed before me and you know it. You're just looking for an argument that isn't there so stop it. 

[+The Jester]

2 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Sigh. Pay attention. It was not an accidental find. 

See the highlighted text.  You are saying only sign after publishing, which makes accidental finds "illegal".  Your statement is broader than your minor little irk, and is untrue.

[+IceColdUK]

2 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Sigh. Pay attention. It was not an accidental find. 

The point is that there are any number of reasons (‘legitimate’ or not) for somebody to get their name on a logbook before a cache listing is published on geocaching.com.

 

As has been pointed out, the FTF side-game has no rules.  Sure, people will roll their eyes or become irked by ‘unethical’ behaviour, but nothing can be done about it.  HQ will not get involved.

 

If you feel justified in claiming a FTF after publication, great; put that in your log.  Everybody’s happy.

[+HunterandSamuel]

Just now, The Jester said:

See the highlighted text.  You are saying only sign after publishing, which makes accidental finds "illegal".  Your statement is broader than your minor little irk, and is untrue.

No dear, that's not what I said. 

[+The Jester]

2 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Don't tell me what I'm irked about. When did the irk thread become a debate thread to debate ones irks? I'm not irked because someone signed before me and you know it. You're just looking for an argument that isn't there so stop it. 

I'm looking for an argument?  You've taken a minor incident and spread it across multiple threads and are making very broad claims that don't hold up.  But you won't accept anything/anyone that doesn't agree with you.  So, sure, I'm done.

[+HunterandSamuel]

1 minute ago, IceColdUK said:

If you feel justified in claiming a FTF after publication, great; put that in your log.  Everybody’s happy.

That's exactly what I did. Also, I'm giving my opinions on an irk of mine.  

[+HunterandSamuel]

Just now, The Jester said:

I'm looking for an argument?  You've taken a minor incident and spread it across multiple threads and are making very broad claims that don't hold up.  But you won't accept anything/anyone that doesn't agree with you.  So, sure, I'm done.

LOL Show me broad "claims" across multiple threads I'm making? I'm asking question and giving my personal opinions on links another person gave me here on this thread. I'm amazed that my irk has irked you to this level. Yes, it's best that you are done. 

[+on4bam]

It's so simple, Your name is not the first in the paper log so you're not FTF.

No matter what the reason, someone else logged it first.

 

No prices to be won, so better not worry and carry on.