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What Irks you most?

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I'm upset by people who don't understand that micros are designed for hiding in places with little cover, and then go ahead and place them in heavy vegetative cover without understanding that GPS is only good to within 5-7 meters.  Who wants to take the trouble to look for a micro that is the size of half my pinky in dense vegetative cover without even a hint where it is located from the person who placed it?

This is very common in my current Urban location. City slickers don't seem to have a clue as to what the various sizes are for, or how GPS actually works,  and how to best hide things that are FUN to locate.  Mostly these are a senseless waste of time for seekers who end up chasing something that takes hours and many people to rarely find.

Get wise City Slickers!  Just because you found a grove with trees and undergrowth, doesn't mean you don't have a responsibility to those trying to to find something you hide within a reasonable amount of time.

 

Edited by TyrehlByk
badly written first draft
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3 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

Guess I don't understand why you'd post that then.  Didn't you draw that attention yourself by posting it?  

Don't be surprised if your Reviewers already saw this, as saying, "It can take months to get a bad cache removed here" even specifies where...     :)

We don't have those issues in our area.

This thread is titled "What irks you most?", so people post just that.

I'm glad that you and dprovan live in Geocaching La-La-Land, where everything is just fine. Others don't, so they post according to the title. They don't have to justify that.

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41 minutes ago, Rebore said:

I'm glad that you and dprovan live in Geocaching La-La-Land, where everything is just fine. Others don't, so they post according to the title. They don't have to justify that.

Where'd this come from? I don't think anyone could have been more supportive of gasbottle's comments than I was, and I encouraged him to take them somewhere they'd do some good. How could you possibly interpret that as me thinking everything was just find and anyone that didn't think so would need to justify thinking otherwise?

I'm really sorry you live in such a miserable community. I definitely want us all to do whatever we can to improve it. The irk thread isn't the place to make that happen. Nor does it help solve the problem to tell me, as gasbottle did, that I should take responsibility for starting a thread to discuss a problem I have no experience with and don't really understand. If gasbottle can't be bothered, why would anyone else take his complaints seriously?

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16 minutes ago, dprovan said:

Where'd this come from? I don't think anyone could have been more supportive of gasbottle's comments than I was, and I encouraged him to take them somewhere they'd do some good. How could you possibly interpret that as me thinking everything was just find and anyone that didn't think so would need to justify thinking otherwise?

I'm really sorry you live in such a miserable community. I definitely want us all to do whatever we can to improve it. The irk thread isn't the place to make that happen. Nor does it help solve the problem to tell me, as gasbottle did, that I should take responsibility for starting a thread to discuss a problem I have no experience with and don't really understand. If gasbottle can't be bothered, why would anyone else take his complaints seriously?

That's because I have the feeling as soon as somebody complains about somethiutng your standard answer is always the same:

Quote

We don't have either of these problems in my area.

I live in a fine community, but I wouldn't exaggerate it to the point you do. Or maybe you don't and everything is just perfect in your area. Lucky you.

Gabottle just posted what irks him, which is on topic here. If you want to discuss side aspects, it's up to you to open a new topic, you've been invited to quote him.

To stay on topic, discussions like this irk me.

 

 

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8 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

Don't be surprised if your Reviewers already saw this...

If any moderator or reviewer sees a forum complaint, we can write emails and stuff.

I'd be happy to see a separate thread on this subject.  Example of "horrible reviewer" syndrome:  Several times a year, I make a mistake or the website has a glitch when I'm disabling caches.  I rely on bookmark lists, and I move very quickly.  Sometimes I don't notice that a cache wasn't bookmarked until months later.

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14 hours ago, Rebore said:

This thread is titled "What irks you most?", so people post just that.

I'm glad that you and dprovan live in Geocaching La-La-Land, where everything is just fine. Others don't, so they post according to the title. They don't have to justify that.

I agree.  I even answered one questioning my "irk", but that wasn't what I responded to...

The poster had one say that their "irk" would make a good thread topic.  That poster said they were reluctant to do so, because it'd risk unwarranted attention. 

 - I merely pointed out that posting that irk for all to see (including where),  "attention" probably already happened.    :)

I don't have issues with my Reviewers, and we've seen  they're consistent in their actions. 

 

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There are only few reviewers in my country, I think two right now. The nickname of the local one being in charge since the beginning is "High Horse" in the online community. He once hosted the "official" geocaching forum for our country, until he pissed off so many people that one of them set up a new forum, and most users switched. We also had a very motivated reviewer once, who was really engaged with and liked by the community, but he threw the towel after a few months/years. I can't tell for sure, but I don't think it wasn't only the community that irked him. Many oldtimers miss the times when a foreign reviewer (the one who published the first caches in my country) was in charge.

So yes, it's absolutely possible that cachers are not fond of their reviewer, and the reason is not just because he didn't publish a cache due to a guideline violation.

If this post is too off topic for this thread, I'm not irked if it gets deleted or moved. ;)

Edited by Rebore
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On 12/1/2017 at 5:55 PM, Rebore said:

I live in a fine community, but I wouldn't exaggerate it to the point you do. Or maybe you don't and everything is just perfect in your area. Lucky you.

Nope, no exaggeration. Let's figure out how to make it the same in your area. (Hint: 9 times out of 10, the reason things are better in my area is because geocachers take responsibility for what's happening instead of wasting time complaining about reviewers or Groundspeak.)

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9 hours ago, dprovan said:

Nope, no exaggeration. Let's figure out how to make it the same in your area. (Hint: 9 times out of 10, the reason things are better in my area is because geocachers take responsibility for what's happening instead of wasting time complaining about reviewers or Groundspeak.)

Okay, let's see. What can I do to stop people sharing final coordinates of difficult Multis and Mysteries, so that the owners don't think "Why bother? I'll find another pasttime where nobody irks me." Ah yes, I know. It's the owners fault, because they can't just ignore those people. A find is a find, be happy.

 

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11 hours ago, dprovan said:

Nope, no exaggeration. Let's figure out how to make it the same in your area. (Hint: 9 times out of 10, the reason things are better in my area is because geocachers take responsibility for what's happening instead of wasting time complaining about reviewers or Groundspeak.)

I think the only way to deal with the few reviewers that won't archive caches despite multiple NMs, NAs and even reviewer notes is to point out the problem to Groundspeak. I can't see any other way to deal with the problem. 

I'm lucky in my area, reviewers who disable a cache will follow-up in a month and archive if there is no response. 

I have seen examples in some areas of caches with multiple NAs being ignored, even multiple reviewer notes going on for months even years. Those caches are old pre-2005 and it seems some reviewers don't want to be the guy that archives an old cache. 

Edited by L0ne.R

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2 hours ago, Rebore said:

Okay, let's see. What can I do to stop people sharing final coordinates of difficult Multis and Mysteries, so that the owners don't think "Why bother? I'll find another pasttime where nobody irks me." Ah yes, I know. It's the owners fault, because they can't just ignore those people. A find is a find, be happy.

It used to be appreciated when the owner of a difficult multi-stage cache designed it to loop back towards the parking location, so seekers didn't have to backtrack the entire route when they completed the adventure. Now, that seems to attract "finds" from people interested in a quick log to fill a D/T square.

I'm not sure what the CO can do to eliminate the shortcuts, other than to design epic multi-stage caches as out-and-back hikes, so that at the very least, everyone does the hike even if someone gave them the final coordinates.

But what kind of recognition do people who shortcut get from the community? Are they laughed at for their ridiculous "accomplishment"? Are they praised for filling their D/T grid? Are the criticized for treating the cache owner's creation with disrespect?

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3 hours ago, niraD said:

I'm not sure what the CO can do to eliminate the shortcuts, other than to design epic multi-stage caches as out-and-back hikes, so that at the very least, everyone does the hike even if someone gave them the final coordinates.

Oddly, today, I found my fourth multi where I found the final stage, but not the first stage.  Today's was only  a half-mile hike in.

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8 hours ago, Rebore said:

Okay, let's see. What can I do to stop people sharing final coordinates of difficult Multis and Mysteries, so that the owners don't think "Why bother? I'll find another pasttime where nobody irks me." Ah yes, I know. It's the owners fault, because they can't just ignore those people. A find is a find, be happy.

I couldn't have said it better ;) .

I'm the owner of quite a few difficult puzzle caches, and I don't like it at all that final coordinates are regularly shared without any explanation about the puzzle. The problem in the community here is that many take it for granted that finals are "shared". Nobody seems to have the slightest bit of bad conscience when doing it. It's especially true for D5- or T5-rated caches. My "solution" to the problem was to downgrade most of my D5 puzzles to D4,5 max, and to take all T5 finals down from the tree and make it T2 max.

As a reaction, I placed a D5/T5 puzzle cache, which can only be found if you have understood how the puzzle works. Either by solving it yourself, or getting a thorough explanation by someone who has. Needless to say, it's a lot of extra work for me (basically, I have to move the final after every find). But it's quite telling to see, who has not logged a find so far, even if they usually don't seem to have a lot of difficulties to find other D5 hides in the vicinity ;) .

 

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38 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

I couldn't have said it better ;) .

I'm the owner of quite a few difficult puzzle caches, and I don't like it at all that final coordinates are regularly shared without any explanation about the puzzle. The problem in the community here is that many take it for granted that finals are "shared". Nobody seems to have the slightest bit of bad conscience when doing it. It's especially true for D5- or T5-rated caches. My "solution" to the problem was to downgrade most of my D5 puzzles to D4,5 max, and to take all T5 finals down from the tree and make it T2 max.

As a reaction, I placed a D5/T5 puzzle cache, which can only be found if you have understood how the puzzle works. Either by solving it yourself, or getting a thorough explanation by someone who has. Needless to say, it's a lot of extra work for me (basically, I have to move the final after every find). But it's quite telling to see, who has not logged a find so far, even if they usually don't seem to have a lot of difficulties to find other D5 hides in the vicinity ;) .

 

It's amazing that you put so much effort in your hides. If life takes me to your area, I'll surely look for at least one of them. :)

Edited by Rebore
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Aargh.  Went looking for two caches by a CO who was active Feb and March of this year.  Thirteen caches found and two hidden.  The first was an ammo can in the woods.  Logs said the coords were off, so I expanded my search, and found it sixty feet off.  Supplied my coords.  The seconds was a micro in a playground/park.  The coords lead to the center of the hockey rink.  I did not have the corrected coords by an earlier finder,  (Only have five logs in Gupy.)  CO said "Thank u 'finder' for coordinates I replaced them.  Nope he did not correct the coords.  This one was 80' off by the corrected coords.  Google shows the middle of the hockey rink.  White star shows the corrected coords.  AARGH!

Shoot.jpg

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7 hours ago, Harry Dolphin said:

CO said "Thank u 'finder' for coordinates I replaced them.  Nope he did not correct the coords.

 

The reason for this might be a misunderstanding by the CO about what the "Correct these coordinates" feature (the "pencil" near the listing coordinates) is about. There were at least two recent situations in my homezone just like that. Coords were off, finders provided better ones, nothing happened ,,, and days or weeks later it turned out that the CO thought they had updated the public coordinates using the "pencil" tool.

I vaguely remember that when GS opened the "Corrected coordinates" feature to cache types other than "Puzzle", some people warned about this possible problem. But don't get me wrong ;) - I still think it's a great feature, I only wish that people would actually read what's shown to them on a screen. After all, it clearly says "Corrected Coordinates (hidden from others)" in the popup dialog.

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On 12/3/2017 at 6:45 AM, Rebore said:

Okay, let's see. What can I do to stop people sharing final coordinates of difficult Multis and Mysteries, so that the owners don't think "Why bother? I'll find another pasttime where nobody irks me." Ah yes, I know. It's the owners fault, because they can't just ignore those people. A find is a find, be happy.

What does this have to do with reviewers not attending promptly to NA. That's what we were talking about.

Anyway, since you ask, in my area, there's no general sharing of final coordinates, so I have no experience fixing that problem. I can't even tell you why that doesn't happen because whoever managed to make solve-yourself the community standard did it before my time. I imagine that if it started happening regularly, one or more people would have a private conversation with the person taking advantage of illicitly obtained coordinates to make it clear how embarrassed they should be to be claiming finds on puzzle caches they didn't solve. Meanwhile, most everyone else would be laughing out loud at them. Dunno if it would stop them, but the community wouldn't go into a tizzy about it. The important thing is that the community makes it clear to the COs that their puzzle caches are appreciated, so the COs don't generally feel that a few non-solve finds invalidates the value of the cache for the rest of the community.

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23 hours ago, baer2006 said:

...

As a reaction, I placed a D5/T5 puzzle cache, which can only be found if you have understood how the puzzle works. Either by solving it yourself, or getting a thorough explanation by someone who has. Needless to say, it's a lot of extra work for me (basically, I have to move the final after every find). But it's quite telling to see, who has not logged a find so far, even if they usually don't seem to have a lot of difficulties to find other D5 hides in the vicinity ;) .

 

That would irk me ... sometimes it takes me months to solve a puzzle by chipping away at it and looking for inspiration.  Then I mark it and keep track of my answer, but it might take me months again before I actually get out to try to find it.   I wouldn't be thrilled to realize the final changed out from under my solution.

 

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9 hours ago, fuzziebear3 said:

That would irk me ... sometimes it takes me months to solve a puzzle by chipping away at it and looking for inspiration.  Then I mark it and keep track of my answer, but it might take me months again before I actually get out to try to find it.   I wouldn't be thrilled to realize the final changed out from under my solution.

That's not how my cache works.

The outdoor part is a one-stage multi. The solution of the puzzle in the listing leads you to stage 1, which does not move. At S1, you find a field puzzle, which is rather simple to solve if you know how to solve the listing puzzle, but impossible if you don't. When I move the final, I also replace the field puzzle at S1 (I have a set of future final locations and corresponding field puzzles prepared, so I can do this at very short notice ;) ). So your solution for stage 1 remains valid forever. But you have a problem, if you either just grabbed the final coordinates from a previous finder, or got the coords for S1 but not the knowledge how the puzzle works :P.

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On 12/3/2017 at 6:15 PM, baer2006 said:

(basically, I have to move the final after every find).

I dunno...that seems to be against the spirit of "cache permanence".  Placing a cache in "reaction" to something and changing it after every solve & find comes off as a 'spite cache'.  

So yeah...that's exactly the kind of cache owner I lose respect for...someone who puts a cache out there primarily as a reaction to something they don't like about how others play the game.

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1 hour ago, J Grouchy said:

I dunno...that seems to be against the spirit of "cache permanence".  Placing a cache in "reaction" to something and changing it after every solve & find comes off as a 'spite cache'.  

So yeah...that's exactly the kind of cache owner I lose respect for...someone who puts a cache out there primarily as a reaction to something they don't like about how others play the game.

I think more non-trad cache owners would do what Baer did if it wasn't so difficult to manage. I feel the victim (the CO) is being blamed. He is being blamed for trying to circumvent the poor behavior of many finders. Finders who pass final coordinates amongst themselves so they can skip stages and accumulate non-trad smileys quicker.  

In baer2006's example, the finder is not harmed if they search for the cache as intended. In fact, they should end up with a more rewarding experience. 

 

Edited by L0ne.R
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2 hours ago, J Grouchy said:

So yeah...that's exactly the kind of cache owner I lose respect for...someone who puts a cache out there primarily as a reaction to something they don't like about how others play the game.

Sorry to hear that. But being "everybody's darling" is not my goal anyway :rolleyes: .

Of course it's a reaction to how others play the game. But that way (openly sharing final coordinates) is clearly something that irks me (q.v. thread subject ;) ) and that special cache will definitely remain a one-off experiment. I played with the idea for almost a year before actually implementing it, and had no idea how it would "work". The cache has been online for three months so far, and the find rate is still low, even though the typical "critical" threshold of finders (after which shared final coordinates multiply rapidly) has been passed. On the other hand, regularly moving the final is no fun at all for me, and the overall lifetime of the listing will most likely be significantly shorter than my usual standard (5+ years). At the end of the day, I wouldn't recommend it to other owners.

 

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52 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

Sorry to hear that. But being "everybody's darling" is not my goal anyway :rolleyes: .

Of course it's a reaction to how others play the game. But that way (openly sharing final coordinates) is clearly something that irks me (q.v. thread subject ;) ) and that special cache will definitely remain a one-off experiment. I played with the idea for almost a year before actually implementing it, and had no idea how it would "work". The cache has been online for three months so far, and the find rate is still low, even though the typical "critical" threshold of finders (after which shared final coordinates multiply rapidly) has been passed. On the other hand, regularly moving the final is no fun at all for me, and the overall lifetime of the listing will most likely be significantly shorter than my usual standard (5+ years). At the end of the day, I wouldn't recommend it to other owners.

 

How do you deal with approvals? Have you sought reviewer clearance each time(!) or are you moving it just under the distance limit?

If you've moved it a bunch of times without approval, will it eventually come up on Reviewers' Radar?

I like your idea, but how does it work in practice?

Conflicts with other cachers trying to hide things close by could get interesting...

For the record, I agree that sharing final coords is bad and I'm interested in ideas to help discourage the practice. But, I'm not sure a "Half-Travelling" cache is kosher, either.

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Another irk,, people that whine when a cache owner takes steps to deter puzzle cheating sites, PAFing, and loud mouths that give their cache away. :(

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1 hour ago, Mudfrog said:

Another irk,, people that whine when a cache owner takes steps to deter puzzle cheating sites, PAFing, and loud mouths that give their cache away. :(

Is this directed at me, or just in general, 'cause I'm intrigued by this guy's solution, as long as we as a community consider it in-game.

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2 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Conflicts with other cachers trying to hide things close by could get interesting...

One way to deal with that would be to mark the corners of a modest (less than 528ft by 528ft) area with physical waypoints, and then keep the final location within that marked area.

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1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Is this directed at me, or just in general, 'cause I'm intrigued by this guy's solution, as long as we as a community consider it in-game.

For the record, I don't make a big secret out of the fact that the final of my cache is moving. Otherwise, I wouldn't have mentioned it in a public forum anyway.

Edited by baer2006
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3 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

How do you deal with approvals? Have you sought reviewer clearance each time(!) or are you moving it just under the distance limit?

If you've moved it a bunch of times without approval, will it eventually come up on Reviewers' Radar?

I like your idea, but how does it work in practice?

Conflicts with other cachers trying to hide things close by could get interesting...

For the record, I agree that sharing final coords is bad and I'm interested in ideas to help discourage the practice. But, I'm not sure a "Half-Travelling" cache is kosher, either.

It should be as kosher as it can get - I discussed the whole idea with a reviewer before submitting anything :) .

I have prepared a set of potential locations for the final, all within an otherwise cache-empty wood, in an area of about 0.5 sq.km. These locations are all entered as hidden physical waypoints in the listing, so other cachers won't be able to hide anything there. When I run out of "unused" final waypoints, I could add e.g. 10 more, and would then ask the reviewer to check and approve these in one go.

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2 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Is this directed at me, or just in general, 'cause I'm intrigued by this guy's solution, as long as we as a community consider it in-game.

No sir, not at all. Like you, i was curious to how know how Baer worked it out. I see his post now. Back in the day, his solution might have been more trouble than it was worth. I have a feeling that it probably isn't too hard to maintain since the majority go for the easier caches these days.

Have heard the whining elsewhere though. I've actually had a couple of people get upset at me when i didn't give them final coordinates to someone else' puzzle cache that i had previously found.

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1 hour ago, Mudfrog said:

I've actually had a couple of people get upset at me when i didn't give them final coordinates to someone else' puzzle cache that i had previously found.

I'm at more than a few now...     Last was a LBH with a lot of projecting waypoints involved. They first tried to find it by a hint.  Then zigzagged, looking for hiding spots.  Already got a call earlier that they were asking for just the final.  Got "the call" about an hour later.  They shouldn't have had my number, and I don't answer to "no name".  Someone finally pointed them to the final.  I'm one of a couple they badmouthed on faceplant.  Yeah, it's my fault...

Can't figure why folks have that need  to hit caches, even when they realize they just don't have the ability.  Weird...

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3 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

No sir, not at all. Like you, i was curious to how know how Baer worked it out. I see his post now. Back in the day, his solution might have been more trouble than it was worth. I have a feeling that it probably isn't too hard to maintain since the majority go for the easier caches these days.

Have heard the whining elsewhere though. I've actually had a couple of people get upset at me when i didn't give them final coordinates to someone else' puzzle cache that i had previously found.

Yup, the whole thing as he describes it sounds fine.

So, when he moves the final, does that make it a new cache? Can't get credit for it more than once, but just for the sake solving puzzles I might hit this one repeatedly!

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12 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Yup, the whole thing as he describes it sounds fine.

So, when he moves the final, does that make it a new cache? Can't get credit for it more than once, but just for the sake solving puzzles I might hit this one repeatedly!

Since it's always the same GC Code and it's not possible to log a find more than once anymore, you could only write a note or DNF for recurring visits.

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54 minutes ago, Rebore said:

Since it's always the same GC Code and it's not possible to log a find more than once anymore, you could only write a note or DNF for recurring visits.

Exactly - that's what I meant when I said "just for the sake of solving puzzles."

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9 minutes ago, igator210 said:

Mother Nature... when she either burns up caches or buries them under feet of snow.

... and owners, who hide their cache on the ground, and set the "Available in winter" icon - in an area where lots of snow is normal in winter. But to be honest, that doesn't really irk me ... only making me shake my head and ramp up my DNF count :rolleyes:.

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26 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

... and owners, who hide their cache on the ground, and set the "Available in winter" icon - in an area where lots of snow is normal in winter. But to be honest, that doesn't really irk me ... only making me shake my head and ramp up my DNF count :rolleyes:.

If there is some kind of landmark close to GZ, like a tree or a large rock, the coords are good and there is a spoilerpic, you can always bring an avalanche shovel. Some guys did that in my early days and were quite successful. :)

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People not logging DNFs.

I've done trails where one cache is missing and there have been no DNFs logged, even though the caches either side of it along the same trail have been regularly found and cachers would have had to walk past the missing one too. This means a cache can stay missing for a long time as the owner is unaware that there is a problem.

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1 hour ago, vw_k said:

People not logging DNFs.

I've done trails where one cache is missing and there have been no DNFs logged, even though the caches either side of it along the same trail have been regularly found and cachers would have had to walk past the missing one too. This means a cache can stay missing for a long time as the owner is unaware that there is a problem.

YES!!!!!

 

 

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I have noticed a tendency for some COs to "retire" a series and archive the caches, only to then create a new series using almost the same set of hides. Unless a walk is spectacularly beautiful, I cannot be bothered to retrace my steps just to clear an outbreak of green on the map. It is very irritating and I wish people would not do it.

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2 hours ago, ncambray said:

I have noticed a tendency for some COs to "retire" a series and archive the caches, only to then create a new series using almost the same set of hides. Unless a walk is spectacularly beautiful, I cannot be bothered to retrace my steps just to clear an outbreak of green on the map. It is very irritating and I wish people would not do it.

Meh. I have to admit that it seems like cheating and I'd rather a CO that gets tired of a series would just archive the caches and leave the area for someone else. (That's what happens more commonly in my area.) But it doesn't irritate me. In fact, I have to admit enjoying having new caches give me an excuse to enjoy a walk again that I enjoyed before.

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Nothing quite so frustrating as making an exhaustive search for a supposedly easy cache with no luck, only to have someone else log a find within a few days.  Bonus points if that next person claims how easy it was!

Edited by MysteryGuy1

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Similar to Mystery Guy1, someone who calls everyone-and-their-brother to tell them where the cache is, then writes it was an easy find on the log. 

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17 hours ago, MysteryGuy1 said:

Nothing quite so frustrating as making an exhaustive search for a supposedly easy cache with no luck, only to have someone else log a find within a few days.  Bonus points if that next person claims how easy it was!

Yeah...especially if their log is something like "quick find" or "TFTC"...almost a slap in the face to anyone who had difficulty.  

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3 hours ago, J Grouchy said:

Yeah...especially if their log is something like "quick find" or "TFTC"...almost a slap in the face to anyone who had difficulty.  

Then to return to the spot to find a pill bottle with a new log, in the spot you had looked at before. <_<

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On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 1:27 PM, blocko1000 said:

Power trails!!!

Power trails out where I live are pretty amazing because they take you for miles into beautiful forests and along rivers.

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18 hours ago, SeattleWayne said:

Power trails out where I live are pretty amazing because they take you for miles into beautiful forests and along rivers.

We have many beautiful forests and rivers where I live too.   Having a power trail near them wouldn't make it any more likely that I would visit those places to go geocaching.  Personally I think that if there are fewer caches in places like that it provides more time to enjoy the scenery than stopping every 3 minutes to retrieve and sign a cache log under a "hidden" under a pile of rocks. 

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2 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:
20 hours ago, SeattleWayne said:

Power trails out where I live are pretty amazing because they take you for miles into beautiful forests and along rivers.

We have many beautiful forests and rivers where I live too.   Having a power trail near them wouldn't make it any more likely that I would visit those places to go geocaching.  Personally I think that if there are fewer caches in places like that it provides more time to enjoy the scenery than stopping every 3 minutes to retrieve and sign a cache log under a "hidden" under a pile of rocks. 

So true. Actually a power trail would make it less likely that I would visit that trail. Especially a power trail of cheap leaky containers that never get monitored and maintained (the usual scenario). I'd rather just walk the trail when I'm in the mood for a hike in the woods. Stopping every .1 miles for junk caches would spoil the experience. Just a small variety of maintained caches along the way hidden at the nicest spots would be more enjoyable and rewarding.

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I was really bothered by the over 100 Notes that were posted to some of the HQGT cache pages on New Years Day, which were not related to the cache and were just wishing Happy New Year and thanks for the souvenir.  If people want to wish HQ Happy New Year or thank them for something, I don't think a Note on a traditional cache is the right way to do it, and it makes it hard for real cache searchers to refer to older logs.  Geocaching's response to my concern was "Notes are part of geocaching, they do not devalue find logs."  I disagree.  See for an example, GC4GWB5

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