What Irks you most?

January 28, 2023

18 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Several of those T5s I have swum to, so not everyone takes a boat. Try signing a log while you are treading water in a current. Easier if the cache is on an island; even if having stared at the island long enough (this only recommended for lonely places) have decided , 'what the heck', pulled your clothes off and taken the swim.

LOL, that was exactly my D5/T5 find! Couldn't have used a boat if we wanted to - in a river not far off a bridge, strong current! (Went prepared...)

January 28, 2023

20 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with this. T rating isn't a measure of difficulty or skills needed, it's a guide to what needs to be traversed between where you leave the trappings of civilisation and the cache. A T5 rating just means you'll need more than just yourself to get there. Of the 34 T5s I've found, yes most have needed a boat, not unexpected since I live in a coastal area with lots of waterways, but there are a fair few that needed climbing equipment such as a ladder or ropes. In an area like the Blue Mountains west of Sydney, I'd expect most of the T5s would be abseiling ones.

What irks me is kind of the opposite, where some "specialised equipment needed" caches are rated T4.5, meaning "T5 lite" rather than "Extremely demanding movement over potentially hazardous terrain." This results in the same terrain rating having almost two opposite meanings.

FWIW I am not saying that I don't think boat caches shoud be T5 (well, they are not for me) but that there are SO MANY of them while there are SO FEW that are actually tough hikes etc.

On your other point it seems contradictory: a boat is absolutely "specialised equipment needed" !!!!! And yup, very very often I see T ratings with nearly opposite meanings. But there is not much nuance in just two basic ratings anyway.

15.3k · January 28, 2023

On 1/27/2023 at 3:40 PM, barefootjeff said:

What irks me is kind of the opposite, where some "specialised equipment needed" caches are rated T4.5, meaning "T5 lite" rather than "Extremely demanding movement over potentially hazardous terrain." This results in the same terrain rating having almost two opposite meanings.

Yeah, I noticed that before Groundspeak updated the descriptions of difficulty and terrain ratings to include the half-star ratings. Some 4.5-star caches were "5-star lite" and relatively easy. Others were "4-star heavy" and about as difficult as possible.

January 28, 2023

The proliferation of worthless P&Gs

We, IMHO, need to encourage more "challenging" caches!

But: I do understand the hidden objective of Groundspeak is the "family experience," so, OK to an extent!

February 5, 2023

Just a small one but:

Finders posting spoiler photos for other cachers' cleverly made hides.

I had this happen today, not the end of the world for me as it was a type of hide I have seen before, but the "Ahh THERE it is! Very clever!" factor was missing as I could just walk straight up to GZ knowing what I was looking for and could see the cache camoflage as I approached. For someone who hadn't seen this type of hide before the experience of searching for the cache then realising you've found it would be gone.

Turns out the finder posts a lot of photos of the caches they find "to help others".

If a cache owner wants to post a spoiler photo then it's up to them, but posting spoiler photos on other people's hides can kind of defeat the point of difficulty ratings in my opinion.

1.4k · February 5, 2023

I've had a finder post some spoiler text on one of my hides. I sent them an e-mail pointing out the problem and asking if they would reword their log. They did it. I would have had no hesitation in deleting the log if they had refused.

3.4k · February 5, 2023

1 hour ago, Gill & Tony said:

I've had a finder post some spoiler text on one of my hides. I sent them an e-mail pointing out the problem and asking if they would reword their log. They did it. I would have had no hesitation in deleting the log if they had refused.

I have had exactly this experience multiple times. Everyone I've ever asked to change their log has done so, and most have said "Sorry."

4.2k · February 6, 2023

3 hours ago, Gill & Tony said:

I've had a finder post some spoiler text on one of my hides. I sent them an e-mail pointing out the problem and asking if they would reword their log. They did it. I would have had no hesitation in deleting the log if they had refused.

At least you gave them the opportunity. I once had a log deleted because I accidently showed the number of a trackable in the photograph. This was very unlike me, as I normally VERY carefully make sure I DON'T show this number by blanking it out, but somehow this one time the number got past me. I don't how, but it did. Very blunt email arrived from the cache CO with words something like, "Deleted your log are you must not show a TB's number." I replied and told them they were very rude and the normal thing would be to politely point out my mistake for ME to correct. Which I would have done pronto!

February 6, 2023

On 1/28/2023 at 4:15 PM, barefootjeff said:

Unless that really tough hike requires specialised equipment, it shouldn't be rated T5 no matter how tough it is. Here are the Help Centre definitions:

Oh I get what the guidelines say but I think climbing a mountain is a LOT harder than a little quick paddle in still water... so therefore apparently what irks me is how Groundspeak decided to define it. Example: Vermont 1 is a tough hike and then a really tough find. But a paddle 50m off a dock to grab a bison on a branch? Not worthy of T5 IMHO despite the "boat". But hey, the topic here is what irks us, rather than do we agree with Groundspeak. The T5 boat thing irks me and that's not gonna change. :-)

February 6, 2023

12 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

as deleting or even editing logs can't be done in the app

Yes, thats a big irk. I mean app user can't even change the found date at the time of logging and are forced to use the current date. And I think what the "curent date" is is also a little bit depending on the timezone the app user is in. I often see logs with apparently wrong (later) dates.

4.4k · February 6, 2023

2 hours ago, Hynz said:

Yes, thats a big irk. I mean app user can't even change the found date at the time of logging and are forced to use the current date. And I think what the "curent date" is is also a little bit depending on the timezone the app user is in. I often see logs with apparently wrong (later) dates.

It's proof that "the app" is an intentionally ~~dumbed down~~ friendly, simplified app, because adding a date field to it should be the easiest thing.

And it degrades the quality of the info in the logs. A find after 7 DNFs, should that have been back-dated?

February 6, 2023

11 hours ago, CCFwasG said:

The T5 boat thing irks me and that's not gonna change. :-)

I had a cache on the top of a lamppost; I originally submitted it as a high difficulty and easy (1.5) terrain, since I placed the cache with my feet on the ground with a painting pole extension thing with a grabber duct taped on. Reviewer made me change it to T5 (special equipment necessary) and D1.5 (easy to find). So people got credit for a T5 cache. That irked me a bit. Photos below including some creative retrievals; I was happy to see the spoiler photos because they were so much fun.

https://www.geocaching.com/seek/gallery.aspx?guid=c12103a5-f61d-4123-a2ae-ac9bcd02dfd3

9k · February 6, 2023

How about this T5 event - GCA3X29 - indoor rock climbing, climbing not required to attend, but attend and you claim the T5, though it has climbing gear and special tool required attributes... Who wants to obsess over this self-described "fizzy filler" event?

(pretty confident here that if we had an event on water implying use of watercraft, but you didn't need to go on the water to attend, reviewers wouldn't publish it as a T5 special tool required event; but, region reviewers be region reviewers! heh)

Edited February 6, 2023 by thebruce0

15.3k · February 6, 2023

1 hour ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I had a cache on the top of a lamppost; I originally submitted it as a high difficulty and easy (1.5) terrain, since I placed the cache with my feet on the ground with a painting pole extension thing with a grabber duct taped on. Reviewer made me change it to T5 (special equipment necessary) and D1.5 (easy to find).

That would irk me too. I've found elevated caches both ways: T5 for caches when you need "specialized equipment" to reach the coordinates, or D5 for caches where you need "specialized tools" to retrieve/replace the cache ("find, solve, or open") once you're at the coordinates.

1 hour ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

So people got credit for a T5 cache.

Yeah, one of the things that irks me is the idea that finders "get credit" for the difficulty/terrain ratings of caches they find. The difficulty/terrain ratings are communication tools (for the CO to describe roughly what kind of caching experience is involved), not points to be won.

February 6, 2023

2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

How about this T5 event - GCA3X29 - indoor rock climbing, climbing not required to attend, but attend and you claim the T5, though it has climbing gear and special tool required attributes... Who wants to obsess over this self-described "fizzy filler" event?

(pretty confident here that if we had an event on water implying use of watercraft, but you didn't need to go on the water to attend, reviewers wouldn't publish it as a T5 special tool required event; but, region reviewers be region reviewers! heh)

We had this issue locally, a T5 CITO event that was a paddle CITO to clean a river. But since you can't put a waypoint on a river since it's moving water, the meeting point was at the launch. So someone showed up at the specified time at the specified coordinates and signed the log, said hi to some people, and left. The event owner kept deleting the log and the attendee kept putting it back. The next time the owner had a CITO they put the meeting point on an island I believe.

February 6, 2023

On 2/6/2023 at 1:21 PM, niraD said:

Yeah, one of the things that irks me is the idea that finders "get credit" for the difficulty/terrain ratings of caches they find. The difficulty/terrain ratings are communication tools (for the CO to describe roughly what kind of caching experience is involved), not points to be won.

I think I agree... good point. And something related I was actually thinking about after my last post: what irks me even more about needing specialised equipment? It's basically elitist. It excludes people who cannot afford to buy or rent equipment, or who don't happen to have friends to borrow from. While I am sure that isn't the interntion it certainly is a large part of the function of the "specialized equipment" thing. (Note my use of s and z for the various int'l spellings... ) Hiking is accessible to almost everyone. A T5 could/should be able to be earned by doing a huge multi/long walk in an urban area if someone hasn't got a car and is on a tight budget. Or a long hike somewhere public transport allows. We think geocaching is accessible to "all" but it really is a fair bit less than "all". I'm trying to finish my fizzy just as a motivation to get out and do a variety of caches, but I think the competitive parts of geocaching do turn me off. (That said I totally get that it's why some people even do it. Again, this is a topic for personal views, no one needs to agree with me.)

Edited February 13, 2023 by CCFwasG
correct typo

February 6, 2023

1 hour ago, CCFwasG said:

I think I agree... good point. And something related I was actually thinking about after my last post: what irks me even more about needing specialised equipment? It's basically elitist. It excludes people who cannot afford to buy or rent equipment, or who don't happen to have friends to borrow from. While I am sure that isn't the interntion it certainly is a large part of the function of the "specialized equipment" thing. (Note my use of s and z for the various int'l spellings... ) Hiking is accesible to almost everyone. A T5 could/should be able to be earned by doing a huge multi/long walk in an urban area if someone hasn't got a car and is on a tight budget. Or a long hike somewhere public transport allows. We think geocaching is accessible to "all" but it really is a fair bit less than "all". I'm trying to finish my fizzy just as a motivation to get out and do a variety of caches, but I think the competitive parts of geocaching do turn me off. (That said I totally get that it's why some people even do it. Again, this is a topic for personal views, no one needs to agree with me.)

Geocaching is free, but it's not, so geocaching could be unaffordable to people at different levels.

I've seen people complain about $30 per year for Premium Membership, and that's a legit cost that some people can't afford. But then again, Premium membership is not required to play. But some sort of GPS receiver is. Handheld GPS receivers are quite expensive, I only bought my first one because I found it on clearance for $40, and my newer one I got for free. If not using a GPS receiver, a smartphone is required, and they are definitely required for lab caches as handheld GPSr's don't work with them. It seems that everyone has a smartphone but they're a legit cost, I mean they're more expensive than handheld GPS receivers though they're less specialized.

My point is that while geocaching is free, there are a lot of costs involved that we can take for granted.

1.7k · February 6, 2023

2 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

We had this issue locally, a T5 CITO event that was a paddle CITO to clean a river. But since you can't put a waypoint on a river since it's moving water, the meeting point was at the launch. So someone showed up at the specified time at the specified coordinates and signed the log, said hi to some people, and left. The event owner kept deleting the log and the attendee kept putting it back. The next time the owner had a CITO they put the meeting point on an island I believe.

Ah, but did they make attendees go to the island to claim the event?

Here's an idea: since the problem was that you can't put a waypoint in a flowing waterway because there's no place to stop, then make one! Get a big floaty-thing on a tether with an anchor and make a buoy; THAT'S your event location. If the guy on the dock doesn't get there, then he can't legitimately claim the event.

Maybe you can put your Event Log on it! THAT would be tough, depending on the waterflow, but that would just make it more interesting in my eyes.

15.3k · February 7, 2023

4 hours ago, CCFwasG said:

And something related I was actually thinking about after my last post: what irks me even more about needing specialised equipment? It's basically elitist. It excludes people who cannot afford to buy or rent equipment, or who don't happen to have friends to borrow from.

I think I'm confused. Do you object to owners placing caches in places that require specialized equipment to access? Or do you object to owners using the listing on geocaching.com to indicate to potential seekers that the cache location requires specialized equipment to access?

4.2k · February 7, 2023

9 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I had a cache on the top of a lamppost; I originally submitted it as a high difficulty and easy (1.5) terrain, since I placed the cache with my feet on the ground with a painting pole extension thing with a grabber duct taped on. Reviewer made me change it to T5 (special equipment necessary) and D1.5 (easy to find). So people got credit for a T5 cache. That irked me a bit. Photos below including some creative retrievals; I was happy to see the spoiler photos because they were so much fun.

https://www.geocaching.com/seek/gallery.aspx?guid=c12103a5-f61d-4123-a2ae-ac9bcd02dfd3

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me, as it requires special equipment. I wouldn't be able to retrieve that cache, and would have left disappointed. With a five rating I know not to bother, and don't leave disappointed with a DNF. If I wished to do it, the 5T alerts me to, that I need to prepare. I would need to either buy or make the equipment. And I'm not capable of shimmering up a post (too old the main problem), which would have likely been my first thought of what is required. Equipment doesn't always occur to me. For instance, I have swum to caches everyone else has used a boat for. So really, caches like that don't always require equipment. LOL, one I didn't even bring a swimming costume for.

Not close to a 1.5T as you describe it.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Goldenwattle

4.2k · February 7, 2023

5 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

the meeting point on an island

I've been to a meet and greet on an island.

15.3k · February 7, 2023

22 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

If I wished to do it, the 5T alerts me to, that I need to prepare.

A 5D rating also alerts you that you need to prepare. And I would argue that it more accurately represents a cache that is in an accessible location, but that requires some sort of specialized tool to access.

1.4k · February 8, 2023

Irk: Cache owners playing dead.

There is a CO in my wider area, who has lots of caches, many of them puzzles. I have solved and found most of them, but for the last few unsolved ones I need a bit of help. But no matter how I contact him (E-Mail or Message Center), I don't get any reply whatsoever. He is not super active, but logs a few caches every month and the "last login" on the website is usually only a few days old. So I would have expected some form of answer at least once - even if it's only a final "Don't bother me, I don't give help". In the end, I'm going to ask previous finders (I sort of know one or two of them) for help, even though that's not what I prefer (because quite often I only get answers like "Sorry, can't remember the puzzle, but here are the coordinates").

4.2k · February 9, 2023

5 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Irk: Cache owners playing dead.

There is a CO in my wider area, who has lots of caches, many of them puzzles. I have solved and found most of them, but for the last few unsolved ones I need a bit of help. But no matter how I contact him (E-Mail or Message Center), I don't get any reply whatsoever. He is not super active, but logs a few caches every month and the "last login" on the website is usually only a few days old. So I would have expected some form of answer at least once - even if it's only a final "Don't bother me, I don't give help". In the end, I'm going to ask previous finders (I sort of know one or two of them) for help, even though that's not what I prefer (because quite often I only get answers like "Sorry, can't remember the puzzle, but here are the coordinates").

With no assistance from the CO, don't feel bad, take any offered coordinates from previous owners and 'run'. The CO is in no position to complain about people logging, by not solving their puzzles. You did try to contact them first. That's the result of them not replying.

9k · February 9, 2023

12 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

With no assistance from the CO, don't feel bad, take any offered coordinates from previous owners and 'run'. The CO is in no position to complain about people logging, by not solving their puzzles. You did try to contact them first. That's the result of them not replying.

Yep. The CO can't require you to solve the puzzle "the right way". That is such a slippery slope! I had a CO make a Wherigo that could not run on the iphone app due to a command that wasn't supported. I decompiled the Wherigo AND solved the custom encryption he implemented to thwart cartridge hacking. I got the cache and he was super impressed and congratulatory. What if you use a sudoku solver instead of your pencil? What if you use a friend to help instead of you alone? So many what ifs when it comes to puzzle solving. That's why the only enforcable rule is that your name is in the logsheet to log it found (and not even that you were the one to put ink on the paper, because of course that can't be enforced or verified either).

15.3k · February 9, 2023

19 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Yep. The CO can't require you to solve the puzzle "the right way". That is such a slippery slope!

I knew someone who wouldn't solve puzzles that looked tedious. He found it more interesting to brute-force such caches using other clues (holes in the saturation map, comments and photos in the logs, locations that matched the hint and/or theme, etc.).

In the end, he found the cache and signed the log. That's all that mattered.

13.7k · February 9, 2023

19 hours ago, baer2006 said:

There is a CO in my wider area, who has lots of caches, many of them puzzles. I have solved and found most of them, but for the last few unsolved ones I need a bit of help. But no matter how I contact him (E-Mail or Message Center), I don't get any reply whatsoever.

Not surprised, the last coupla years people have asked here about not receiving any emails on their hides, so plant n forget is a thing...

I'm a dyslexic old fart and if it's tough for others, I'm not doing that puzzle, but I'll pass by hundreds of mediocre caches anyway.

It might be simply that this CO is missing it (one cacher would email us and always turn up in junk mail...), but if they're being a jerk, and someone's willing to help you out, I'd thank them for whatever help they provide. If you really have to get that smiley...

9k · February 9, 2023

3 hours ago, niraD said:

3 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Yep. The CO can't require you to solve the puzzle "the right way". That is such a slippery slope!

I knew someone who wouldn't solve puzzles that looked tedious. He found it more interesting to brute-force such caches using other clues (holes in the saturation map, comments and photos in the logs, locations that matched the hint and/or theme, etc.).

In the end, he found the cache and signed the log. That's all that mattered.

Yep, that said... what irks me are people who use that reasoning to justify just getting final coordinates for every geocache and never solving puzzles or actually having the intended experiences... it's not "against the guidelines", but man it can really bug cache owners when that 'freedom' is abused.

15.3k · February 9, 2023

28 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Yep, that said... what irks me are people who use that reasoning to justify just getting final coordinates for every geocache and never solving puzzles or actually having the intended experiences... it's not "against the guidelines", but man it can really bug cache owners when that 'freedom' is abused.

Yep. I know someone who archived his caches and left the game because stats hounds were going directly to the final of one of his multi-caches. He had designed it as an all-day hike in a loop that returned to the parking area. Once upon a time, folks thought it considerate for the owner of a multi-cache to design it as a loop that brought them back somewhere near the parking area. Now it's seen as an excuse to shortcut the hike and go directly to the final, especially if the multi-cache helps you with some stats-based challenge.

1.4k · February 9, 2023

17 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

With no assistance from the CO, don't feel bad, take any offered coordinates from previous owners and 'run'. The CO is in no position to complain about people logging, by not solving their puzzles. You did try to contact them first. That's the result of them not replying.

If the CO is silent, I don't feel bad if I get help elsewhere, and plain final coordinates are better than nothing. The point is: In principle, I like puzzles (I know, that's nerdy ), and if I work on one and can't solve it, there comes the point where I really want to know the solution. Because I want to know: Was it basically "moon logic", or did I just not see the path offered by the CO?

1.4k · February 9, 2023

3 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

It might be simply that this CO is missing it (one cacher would email us and always turn up in junk mail...), but if they're being a jerk, and someone's willing to help you out, I'd thank them for whatever help they provide.

Sure, that's what I usually do in the end. Or, if the cache allows it, resort to "alternate" solutions ... e.g. for one of the unsolved puzzles, I'm quite sure about the general area where the cache is (a roughly 200 m long and 20 m zone) and there are spoiler photos. Geocaching with very fuzzy coordinates !

3 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

If you really have to get that smiley...

Well ... I don't have to, but it would still be nice .

February 9, 2023

On 5/24/2013 at 9:05 PM, GrizzFlyer said:

...like the now-defunct Challenges...

Ambiguity clarification:
Are you thinking the challenge category is defunct and now it is represented with an attribute.
Or are you thinking challenges as a whole are defunct?
I confess, American is my second language so I had to look up Defunct (No longer existing or functioning).

If you are thinking along the lines of challenges as a whole being defunct, I personally disagree and think they're alive and well. There are are a bunch being released in my area in South East Idaho and I think they enrich the game. I'd say my friends like challenges too but they don't like challenges.... they LOVE them.

21.9k · February 9, 2023

1 minute ago, CheekyBrit said:

Ambiguity clarification:
Are you thinking the challenge category is defunct and now it is represented with an attribute.
Or are you thinking challenges as a whole are defunct?
I confess, American is my second language so I had to look up Defunct (No longer existing or functioning).

If you are thinking along the lines of challenges as a whole being defunct, I personally disagree and think they're alive and well. There are are a bunch being released in my area in South East Idaho and I think they enrich the game. I'd say my friends like challenges too but they don't like challenges.... they LOVE them.

You are replying to a comment from nearly ten years ago. In that context, saying "now-defunct Challenges" is an obvious reference to "Geocaching Challenges" (which became defunct as of December 4, 2012) and not a reference to "Challenge Caches."

4.2k · February 9, 2023

7 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Yep. The CO can't require you to solve the puzzle "the right way". That is such a slippery slope! I had a CO make a Wherigo that could not run on the iphone app due to a command that wasn't supported. I decompiled the Wherigo AND solved the custom encryption he implemented to thwart cartridge hacking. I got the cache and he was super impressed and congratulatory. What if you use a sudoku solver instead of your pencil? What if you use a friend to help instead of you alone? So many what ifs when it comes to puzzle solving. That's why the only enforcable rule is that your name is in the logsheet to log it found (and not even that you were the one to put ink on the paper, because of course that can't be enforced or verified either).

I have 'solved' several puzzle caches and multicaches by accidently finding them, either by guessing their hides, or truly accidently coming upon them. Walking through some trees and finding a cache out in the open, as happened with one of them. Reaching into a metal sculpture to demonstrate to a friend that would be a great place for a cache; 'what do they think'; only to place my hand on a cache and find it already occupied. The puzzle then often is, finding what puzzle it is.

February 10, 2023

23 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Yep. The CO can't require you to solve the puzzle "the right way". slippery slope!

17 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Sure, that's what I usually do in the end. Or, if the cache allows it, resort to "alternate" solutions ...

This reminds me of the time I accidentally skipped half a cryptography puzzle because I just felt like this was probably an f and that would probably be a 5 and if just give it a try and oooh green light!

As a CO of some puzzles I quite enjoy seeing people's different approaches - especially to the knitting puzzle I have - there are 4 kinds of finders, those that can knit, those that can use Excel, those that bribe lover ones who can knit and those that got bribed into knitting the puzzle so might as well come out for a cache and paddle 🤣 (personally having done both I think knitting it's much easier...)

4.2k · February 11, 2023

10 hours ago, HuggableHamster said:

This reminds me of the time I accidentally skipped half a cryptography puzzle because I just felt like this was probably an f and that would probably be a 5 and if just give it a try and oooh green light!

As a CO of some puzzles I quite enjoy seeing people's different approaches - especially to the knitting puzzle I have - there are 4 kinds of finders, those that can knit, those that can use Excel, those that bribe lover ones who can knit and those that got bribed into knitting the puzzle so might as well come out for a cache and paddle 🤣 (personally having done both I think knitting it's much easier...)

Sounds a fun puzzle for those who know knitting terminology. I wouldn't have a clue with what stitches are called, even having knitted three jumpers and some smaller things in the past. I was shown how to knit and just knitted. Two of the jumpers I made up the patterns myself, so didn't follow a pattern. Got bored after this and haven't knitted since.

1.4k · February 12, 2023

On 2/11/2023 at 12:55 AM, HuggableHamster said:

This reminds me of the time I accidentally skipped half a cryptography puzzle because I just felt like this was probably an f and that would probably be a 5 and if just give it a try and oooh green light!

As a CO of some puzzles I quite enjoy seeing people's different approaches - especially to the knitting puzzle I have - there are 4 kinds of finders, those that can knit, those that can use Excel, those that bribe lover ones who can knit and those that got bribed into knitting the puzzle so might as well come out for a cache and paddle 🤣 (personally having done both I think knitting it's much easier...)

I was a programmer, never a knitter, so I solved one like that near home via the Excel route. I got the FTF, plus a hint to a nearby hollow where a nice bottle of red was waiting for the FTF. Can't put alcohol in a cache, can we?

February 13, 2023

On 2/6/2023 at 7:01 PM, niraD said:

I think I'm confused. Do you object to owners placing caches in places that require specialized equipment to access? Or do you object to owners using the listing on geocaching.com to indicate to potential seekers that the cache location requires specialized equipment to access?

Sorry if I was confusing, it's why I added that no one needs to agree with me. I don't care what any CO does with their caches, whether they need special equipment or not, it's all fine... but my point was that it excludes a fair number of people. And that's what most T5s do... just because I think it's exclusive doesn't mean anyone need agree with me! I'm just voicing an opinion in the place someone made for it ("what irks you"). It irks me that I'm excluded (and also that more folks than myself are, as at least I have a car!). I don't think any CO should be prevented from placing such caches of course - lots of them are interesting or fun, like @barefootjeffsaid (he sounds offended, I hope no one is offended by an opinion that is clearly not necessarily shared, which again is why I said: no one need agree with me!). Anyway I hope this clarifies. :-)

Edited February 13, 2023 by CCFwasG
further clarification!

February 13, 2023

On 2/9/2023 at 2:50 PM, baer2006 said:

If the CO is silent, I don't feel bad if I get help elsewhere, and plain final coordinates are better than nothing. The point is: In principle, I like puzzles (I know, that's nerdy ), and if I work on one and can't solve it, there comes the point where I really want to know the solution. Because I want to know: Was it basically "moon logic", or did I just not see the path offered by the CO?

This is where numerous online puzzle groups can be helpful! And they're international. (I'm happy to connect you with someone who does this, feel free to message me.)

February 13, 2023

Only two I can think of atm...

There is a solid reason why membership continues to fall and its because of community content that is meant to isolate or exclude. You know the type.....

1. Challenge caches which are unrealistic to newer cachers. For instance the 2000+ cache requirement. The way I look at it is that I'm going to log the cache and either the owner is going to be jerk and remove the electronic log or choose not to and let me work on the requirement. The reality is that the cache will be removed by the time I complete the challenge. Its important to remember that its a two way street. Playground rules. If you're going to act like a jerk to me then that means I have to act like a jerk to you.

2. When you log a cache and physically sign the log but report a maintenance issue. So the cache owner deletes your log and disables the cache... When I say there is an issue its meant to help you out. There will not be a next time. I'll let that **** blow away.

1.9k · February 13, 2023

1 hour ago, LewisFlyers said:

Challenge caches which are unrealistic to newer cachers. For instance the 2000+ cache requirement. The way I look at it is that I'm going to log the cache and either the owner is going to be jerk and remove the electronic log or choose not to and let me work on the requirement. The reality is that the cache will be removed by the time I complete the challenge. Its important to remember that its a two way street. Playground rules. If you're going to act like a jerk to me then that means I have to act like a jerk to you.

We've signed challenges we'll (almost certainly) never achieve. But in the off chance we move and I can get that 150 day streak done etc, I can log it even after its archived. I *always* post a log photo with challenge notes in case someone wants proof in 10 years after the cache has been replaced 3 times.

Nobody has ever been a jerk to me, I'm not even sure what you mean?

We don't go out of our way to sign this sort of challenge, only if we happen to be within a short walk/easy find....

1.9k · February 13, 2023

1 hour ago, LewisFlyers said:

There is a solid reason why membership continues to fall and its because of community content that is meant to isolate or exclude. You know the type.....

I missed this line first - I do agree to a degree with this. Experienced cachers/hiders should attempt to involve newer cachers more. I'm thinking of the amount of crazy difficult/obscure puzzles that abound. Unless I'm pitching in to a group effort, I've found puzzle solving to be pretty arduous in the past few years, as people seem to be endlessly trying (it seems to me) to be one-upping each other with more and more complex puzzles, the end result generally being hardly anyone gets to find them!

15.3k · February 13, 2023

2 hours ago, LewisFlyers said:

1. Challenge caches which are unrealistic to newer cachers.

IMHO, that's what the Ignore List is for. The only caches on my Ignore List are challenge caches that were in my blast radius, where I never expect to complete the challenge requirements.

2 hours ago, LewisFlyers said:

2. When you log a cache and physically sign the log but report a maintenance issue. So the cache owner deletes your log and disables the cache...

I can't say that I've ever had that happen, but that actually does sound like a CO being a jerk.

1.9k · February 13, 2023

2 hours ago, LewisFlyers said:

When you log a cache and physically sign the log but report a maintenance issue. So the cache owner deletes your log and disables the cache...

I've had that happen.... I just followed it up with a NA suggesting a reviewer check the situation.

15.3k · February 13, 2023

56 minutes ago, lee737 said:

I missed this line first - I do agree to a degree with this. Experienced cachers/hiders should attempt to involve newer cachers more. I'm thinking of the amount of crazy difficult/obscure puzzles that abound. Unless I'm pitching in to a group effort, I've found puzzle solving to be pretty arduous in the past few years, as people seem to be endlessly trying (it seems to me) to be one-upping each other with more and more complex puzzles, the end result generally being hardly anyone gets to find them!

When I was living (and geocaching) in the San Francisco Bay Area, the highlight of the geocaching year was the annual visit from Venona. He would taunt us in the GBA forums, challenging us with various "ACTIVITIES", which were crazy-hard puzzles specifically intended to be solved cooperatively by teams of people in the forums. And if you figured out the final step of one of Venona's puzzles, you couldn't just provide the solution. You had to explain how the puzzle worked and how you had solved it. And each year, there was a final event, which included a final puzzle to be solved at the event, revealing the location of the geocoins Venona awarded to everyone who had contributed in any way during that year's "ACTIVITIES".

Back on topic, it irks me that Facebook basically killed those forums. The kind of conversation required for Venona's "ACTIVITIES" don't really work on Facebook.

4.2k · February 13, 2023

1 hour ago, lee737 said:

I'm thinking of the amount of crazy difficult/obscure puzzles that abound.

Simple, ignore them. I do. That's someone's choice to publish such a cache, and others choice, if they choose, not to do it.

4.2k · February 13, 2023

3 hours ago, LewisFlyers said:

Only two I can think of atm...

There is a solid reason why membership continues to fall and its because of community content that is meant to isolate or exclude. You know the type.....

1. Challenge caches which are unrealistic to newer cachers. For instance the 2000+ cache requirement. The way I look at it is that I'm going to log the cache and either the owner is going to be jerk and remove the electronic log or choose not to and let me work on the requirement. The reality is that the cache will be removed by the time I complete the challenge. Its important to remember that its a two way street. Playground rules. If you're going to act like a jerk to me then that means I have to act like a jerk to you.

2. When you log a cache and physically sign the log but report a maintenance issue. So the cache owner deletes your log and disables the cache... When I say there is an issue its meant to help you out. There will not be a next time. I'll let that **** blow away.

Challenge caches:

There are a lot of these I will never manage to get, so I don't get upset; I just don't bother with them. Easy to ignore. Others I can see myself completing, although sometimes that takes years, so I find and sign the log, write a note and add them to my list of challenges I have signed, but I need to work towards. Challenges are fun, as they give something to aim for. Many are of more interest for more experienced cachers, and why do you think that there shouldn't be caches for more experienced cachers? Beginners are very well catered for, as even road guards and caches on lampposts are exciting to start with. I have seen very simple challenges (find a hundred traditionals), which is for beginners. That's fine, but I likely won't bother going out of my way for such a basic challenge, as it isn't a challenge. A challenge is something to aim for. I am about to leave on a trip and I have listed caches to find to help qualify for challenge caches. These days, I find less random caches and target caches more.

I have never had a log deleted (oops, one very weird exception - will explain that one following*) because I have reported a maintenance issue. I have been told off for NM/NA a few times by spineless, weak owners who take this as a personal attack, who can't accept someone saying their cache needs a new log (I was nasty, ruining the game and they didn't have time and it was up to others to replace the logs when they were full). I was pleased the reviewer said some thing to them on that occasion, that I had said nothing nasty and it was the CO's job to maintain the caches. If someone deletes a log because you mentioned it needed maintenance, contact HQ. Beginners shouldn't log a NM if they are the first DNF. They should just log a DNF. A beginner logging a NM just because they couldn't find it, while others can, can be annoying. They need to be realistic and accept they are a beginner and aim to get more experience first.

* This CO had placed a cache 150 metres from the coordinates, and it turned out they knew this. This after people (including myself) had patiently explained to them that their coordinates were out. They had placed the cache where they wanted to, but couldn't put the coordinates there, because another cache was there. Basically they wanted the other cache removed so they could have that spot. If someone contacted them (which they seemed to believe everyone would) I think they were given the correct coordinates. The CO was deleting some logs that had pointed out the coordinates were out. Another geocacher contacted me to comment on this behaviour and said they are "mad". I had to agree they weren't exactly sane. The reviewer came in and disabled the cache, the CO reenabled it. I let the reviewer know and they came back and disabled the cache again, saying they weren't playing games. Soon after the CO, finally got the message and archived it.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Goldenwattle

13.7k · February 14, 2023

18 hours ago, LewisFlyers said:

There is a solid reason why membership continues to fall and its because of community content that is meant to isolate or exclude. You know the type.....

1. Challenge caches which are unrealistic to newer cachers. For instance the 2000+ cache requirement. The way I look at it is that I'm going to log the cache and either the owner is going to be jerk and remove the electronic log or choose not to and let me work on the requirement. The reality is that the cache will be removed by the time I complete the challenge. Its important to remember that its a two way street. Playground rules. If you're going to act like a jerk to me then that means I have to act like a jerk to you.

2. When you log a cache and physically sign the log but report a maintenance issue. So the cache owner deletes your log and disables the cache... When I say there is an issue its meant to help you out. There will not be a next time. I'll let that **** blow away.

Memberships are falling? Sad that there's even two problems already in a hobby meant to be fun. Wish we could help.

Challenge caches are still on my ignore list, along with all Lab Cache types, guard rails, and lamp post skirts.

We understood that for challenges you enter a Write Note and log a Found It after it's completed. Has that changed?

We've found and logged a lot of archived caches, and after logging it myself first, any issues with the CO would go to HQ.

Maybe it's just me, and no offense, but when we realized that this hobby became a game, we didn't much care whether folks got certain caches or not. We found it odd that Groundspeak created a Locationless-like cache to help those joining much later, when whining about not having that icon...

- That's what games are all about. Someone has to win; the rest are losers...

The rare time we know of someone having their "smiley" removed by a CO, if the finder did sign the log and contacted HQ, their find was reinstated.

- Caches with maintenance issues, it helps to take a pic JIC HQ asks, and always log that NM...

13.7k · February 14, 2023

16 hours ago, niraD said:

IMHO, that's what the Ignore List is for.

Yep, shades of "War Games" (1983) ... the only winning move is not to play.

15.3k · February 14, 2023

2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

We understood that for challenges you enter a Write Note and log a Found It after it's completed. Has that changed?

No, that hasn't changed. A few like me simply avoid finding challenge caches until after we've completed the challenge, but those who do find challenge caches before they've completed the challenge are free to log a Note at the time they find the cache, and to log a Find after they've completed the challenge.

2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

- That's what games are all about. Someone has to win; the rest are losers...

FWIW, some of my favorite games are cooperative games, where everyone wins the game together, or everyone loses the game together. For example, The Captain Is Dead, Just One, Burgle Bros., Forbidden Island, Forbidden Desert, or Pandemic.

2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

The rare time we know of someone having their "smiley" removed by a CO, if the finder did sign the log and contacted HQ, their find was reinstated.

My understanding is that Groundspeak usually locks the reinstated Find log to prevent the CO from deleting it again.

What Irks you most?

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment