Premiums that don't award favorite points

[+mobywv]

My original intent of this thread was to perhaps discover why a statistically significant number of premium members don't EVER award favorite points. Why? Because I couldn't imagine why a person would NEVER want to award a cacher for hiding a GREAT cache. ONE guy in this thread actually admitted to not awarding favorites and explained his reasoning. I didn't really agree with the reasoning, but I appreciated him responding. It wasn't my intent to attack these people, but just to understand them. But since this thread ended up going all over the place, I'll tell you what I think. I believe it's selfish to NEVER award favorite votes, particularly when you're one of those guys with thousands and thousands of cache finds and ZERO hides. Try giving a little back to the game, eh? Seriously, is awarding a SINGLE favorite vote too much to ask? Or will checking that little box take up too much time? How would you feel, prolific cache finder, if nobody ever recognized your milestones or challenges? Not so good, huh?

 

By the way, I like micros. Actually, love em. You hear me? LOVE EM! As a matter of fact, I'm gonna go hide one right now. SEE YA!

 

[+uxorious]

I believe it's selfish to NEVER award favorite votes,

 

And I think it is selfish to be judgmental toward those who view parts of this game different than you. I award favorites to a few caches, but it is really not my place to judge those that never do. For what ever reason they have for not doing so.

[+tozainamboku]

I believe it's selfish to NEVER award favorite votes,

 

And I think it is selfish to be judgmental toward those who view parts of this game different than you. I award favorites to a few caches, but it is really not my place to judge those that never do. For what ever reason they have for not doing so.

This seems borderline pot and kettle.

 

I happen to view the favorite points differently than the OP. Rather than award I give the caches I like the most, I see the favorites a quick way to share with the geocaching community which caches I like. Anyone can look at my favorite and get a list of caches I like. They may be able to use my list in conjunction with other people's lists to find caches they might like.

 

I guess one of the definitions of selfish I learned in kindergarten was someone who doesn't share. In this respect I can agree that someone who never gives a favorite is in someway being a little selfish. On the other hand, someone may be reluctant or even embarrassed to share her personal preference with a large group of people she doesn't know. I have to admire the OP's willingness to admit that he likes micros.

[+Cardinal Red]

My original intent of this thread was to perhaps discover why a statistically significant number of premium members don't EVER award favorite points. Why? Because I couldn't imagine why a person would NEVER want to award a cacher for hiding a GREAT cache. ONE guy in this thread actually admitted to not awarding favorites and explained his reasoning. I didn't really agree with the reasoning, but I appreciated him responding. It wasn't my intent to attack these people, but just to understand them. But since this thread ended up going all over the place, I'll tell you what I think. I believe it's selfish to NEVER award favorite votes, particularly when you're one of those guys with thousands and thousands of cache finds and ZERO hides. Try giving a little back to the game, eh? Seriously, is awarding a SINGLE favorite vote too much to ask? Or will checking that little box take up too much time? How would you feel, prolific cache finder, if nobody ever recognized your milestones or challenges? Not so good, huh?

 

By the way, I like micros. Actually, love em. You hear me? LOVE EM! As a matter of fact, I'm gonna go hide one right now. SEE YA!

 

 

We certainly play the game differently, though I do evolve slowly sometimes. I think Micro's suk. I used to actually avoid them totally. I still won't hide them, but I have come around to finding them.

 

I was originally totally against the Favorites implementation idea. I didn't think the caches I like would be very well represented, but I really have not bothered to verify that. If that makes me selfish, fine. I can live with it. I also think they are awarded much to freely. 10 percent is a joke. If it was half of that or less, it could mean more to me. Some cachers proudly announce that they award Favorites for each of their FTF's. You expect me to take a system that allows that seriously? Out of curiosity I did look at Favorites briefly when they were new. I'm sure it's been more than a year since I looked last. I have never targeted a cache search based on Favorites, but I do reserve the right to change my mind some day.

 

Favorites are not the only facet of the game I do not embrace. I don't log Virtuals, Events, or Webcams. I don't consider myself an overly prolific cache finder. My milestones are my business, not yours. And you can take every Challenge ever created and find a place where the sun doesn't shine to put them. I don't have any interest in trackables either.

 

At it's core, we do play a common game. But there are many different side interests, and I ignore most of them. Favorites is just one more thing to ignore. The one and only to date Favorite point I awarded was a special case of a cache someone had called a waste of time. I didn't agree.

[+mobywv]

I believe it's selfish to NEVER award favorite votes,

 

And I think it is selfish to be judgmental toward those who view parts of this game different than you. I award favorites to a few caches, but it is really not my place to judge those that never do. For what ever reason they have for not doing so.

This seems borderline pot and kettle.

 

I happen to view the favorite points differently than the OP. Rather than award I give the caches I like the most, I see the favorites a quick way to share with the geocaching community which caches I like. Anyone can look at my favorite and get a list of caches I like. They may be able to use my list in conjunction with other people's lists to find caches they might like.

 

I guess one of the definitions of selfish I learned in kindergarten was someone who doesn't share. In this respect I can agree that someone who never gives a favorite is in someway being a little selfish. On the other hand, someone may be reluctant or even embarrassed to share her personal preference with a large group of people she doesn't know. I have to admire the OP's willingness to admit that he likes micros.

 

Oh, I AGREE favorite votes are GREAT way for recommending caches to other cachers. But come on man, don't you also feel good when you award a CO who has hidden a fantastic geocache? Ya know, don't you just get that warm lil fuzzy feeling deep down inside? There are just so many incredible geocaches out there I never would have known about if it wasn't for favorite votes. I know for me that the the implementation of favorite vote system has undoubtedly been the best change made to this site since I've been here.

 

As for the micros, yeah... that's just how I roll, son.

[+mobywv]

My original intent of this thread was to perhaps discover why a statistically significant number of premium members don't EVER award favorite points. Why? Because I couldn't imagine why a person would NEVER want to award a cacher for hiding a GREAT cache. ONE guy in this thread actually admitted to not awarding favorites and explained his reasoning. I didn't really agree with the reasoning, but I appreciated him responding. It wasn't my intent to attack these people, but just to understand them. But since this thread ended up going all over the place, I'll tell you what I think. I believe it's selfish to NEVER award favorite votes, particularly when you're one of those guys with thousands and thousands of cache finds and ZERO hides. Try giving a little back to the game, eh? Seriously, is awarding a SINGLE favorite vote too much to ask? Or will checking that little box take up too much time? How would you feel, prolific cache finder, if nobody ever recognized your milestones or challenges? Not so good, huh?

 

By the way, I like micros. Actually, love em. You hear me? LOVE EM! As a matter of fact, I'm gonna go hide one right now. SEE YA!

 

 

We certainly play the game differently, though I do evolve slowly sometimes. I think Micro's suk. I used to actually avoid them totally. I still won't hide them, but I have come around to finding them.

 

I was originally totally against the Favorites implementation idea. I didn't think the caches I like would be very well represented, but I really have not bothered to verify that. If that makes me selfish, fine. I can live with it. I also think they are awarded much to freely. 10 percent is a joke. If it was half of that or less, it could mean more to me. Some cachers proudly announce that they award Favorites for each of their FTF's. You expect me to take a system that allows that seriously? Out of curiosity I did look at Favorites briefly when they were new. I'm sure it's been more than a year since I looked last. I have never targeted a cache search based on Favorites, but I do reserve the right to change my mind some day.

 

Favorites are not the only facet of the game I do not embrace. I don't log Virtuals, Events, or Webcams. I don't consider myself an overly prolific cache finder. My milestones are my business, not yours. And you can take every Challenge ever created and find a place where the sun doesn't shine to put them. I don't have any interest in trackables either.

 

At it's core, we do play a common game. But there are many different side interests, and I ignore most of them. Favorites is just one more thing to ignore. The one and only to date Favorite point I awarded was a special case of a cache someone had called a waste of time. I didn't agree.

 

Hey, if you want to be a somewhat grumpy cacher, that's certainly your prerogative. As for cachers giving out a favorite votes for a FTF, it doesn't mean jack squat in the long run. Rest assured, in most cases, the cream of the crop will have a hell of a lot more favorite votes than one. Not to mention the fact, as I previously pointed out, the favorite vote percentages are WAY more important than the raw vote count. YES, I know older cachers won't be around 85%, but if I see an OLD cache with over 25%, I'll still know it's a pretty darn good cache. It's certainly not too hard to take the date of the cache into consideration when crunching the favorite vote numbers/percentages.

 

I do appreciate you sharing your point of view. And while it's none of my business, I do hope you enjoy your next milestone. Happy caching.

[+ras_oscar]

To this day I still remember the wonderment of my first 2 caches. When I relive that "aha" moment I award a favorite point. Seems like that experience is few and far between these days. Is it me? perhaps. My first 2 were actually quite ordinary in retreospect. I presently have 386 favorite points, 312 of which are available to award.

[+L0ne.R]

 

I happen to view the favorite points differently than the OP. Rather than award I give the caches I like the most, I see the favorites a quick way to share with the geocaching community which caches I like. Anyone can look at my favorite and get a list of caches I like. They may be able to use my list in conjunction with other people's lists to find caches they might like.

 

 

This is how I use the favorite points too. Well said.

 

I have a total of 166 favorite points - gave out 152, have 14 remaining

 

What good does it do the community if I choose to give only the amazing (5/5) caches an FP, and let 1/2 of my FPs go to waste? I hope when people see my name on a FP list they'll know my style and think -- if Lone R favored this cache then it must at least have been a good hide, a maintained cache, in a quality container, in a decent location. When I look at an FP list I look for names I recognize, who use the FP vote appropriately -- to recommend above average caches.

[JASTA 11]

 

.... When I look at an FP list I look for names I recognize, who use the FP vote appropriately -- to recommend above average caches.

 

But, they're 'Favorite Points'.

 

If they were 'Above Average Cache Points', wouldn't we earn 49 for every 100 caches found instead?

 

That would seem appropriate to me.

[+L0ne.R]

.... When I look at an FP list I look for names I recognize, who use the FP vote appropriately -- to recommend above average caches.

 

But, they're 'Favorite Points'.

 

If they were 'Above Average Cache Points', wouldn't we earn 49 for every 100 caches found instead?

 

That would seem appropriate to me.

 

It's been my experience that average and below average caches are about 90% of my cache finds (30% below average, 60% average, 10% above average). My definition of average is a reasonably good hide in a reasonably good location, in a reasonably good container, in decent shape not showing many months of neglect, with a log of some sort that also is in reasonably good shape. What I like to recommend are those caches where the cache owner seems to really care about the experience of the finder. Those are above average and not so common.

[+NeverSummer]

Bottom line for me is:

If it isn't one of my favorites, it doesn't get a favorite point.

 

This is guided by the way I cache. I have seen some pretty awesome cache containers, some great hide locations, etc. in my caching career. But, I'm not going to just scatter my favorite points to just any cache. Oftentimes, I go back through my finds and add some more favorites to my list. I might see some caches for the hide location, care taken in creating the cache experience, the fancy container, or some of any other possible variables. There is no hard rule to follow.

 

I look at favorite points as my favorites, not as a way to point other cachers to that cache, specifically. If a cache gets enough favorite points over time, it can surely attract more attention...but that's not my obligation. An unremarkable cache might get lots of favorites because it is an oldest active for a state, or something else that isn't that big of a factor for me to hand out a favorite point. If the cache isn't remarkable to me overall, I'm not giving it a point. I have many, many favorite points that I have yet to award. And that's ok with me, and should be ok with the OP as well.

[+NeverSummer]

I believe it's selfish to NEVER award favorite votes,

 

And I think it is selfish to be judgmental toward those who view parts of this game different than you. I award favorites to a few caches, but it is really not my place to judge those that never do. For what ever reason they have for not doing so.

As stated in one of the first responses to this thread, some cachers don't know about them, or how to award them. Others have been at this long enough to know a game without favorite points (quite a few of us in that demographic, by the way), and don't see a need to add anything to the most simple levels of the game: hide, find, sign, log online.

[+tozainamboku]

 

.... When I look at an FP list I look for names I recognize, who use the FP vote appropriately -- to recommend above average caches.

 

But, they're 'Favorite Points'.

 

If they were 'Above Average Cache Points', wouldn't we earn 49 for every 100 caches found instead?

 

That would seem appropriate to me.

That would be above median points.

 

Of course colloquially average can mean any measure of central tendancy, not just the arithmetic mean, so for some an average cache may be one that has half the caches better and half the cache worse. But my guess is that people tend to assign some estimate of how much they enjoy a cache (for example on a scale of 1 to 5) and the arithmetic mean could be at the 90 percentile (9 out of 10 caches are below average). The problem here is that no two cachers have the same scale, so averaging the above average caches of several cachers doesn't have any real meaning (i.e. the percentage of premium members that give a cache a favorite point only tells you it that for premium cachers who found that particular cache, the probablity that they gave it a favorite vote; it does not indicate that the cache is any more likely to be above average).

 

Ideally, a favorite point means that I like this cache more than I liked 90% of the caches that I found. Since some of us are stingy, it means I like this cache more than I liked at least 90% of the caches I found.

Edited May 13, 2013 by tozainamboku

[+K13]

Bottom line for me is:

If it isn't one of my favorites, it doesn't get a favorite point.

<snip>

 

I look at favorite points as my favorites, not as a way to point other cachers to that cache, specifically. If a cache gets enough favorite points over time, it can surely attract more attention...but that's not my obligation. An unremarkable cache might get lots of favorites because it is an oldest active for a state, or something else that isn't that big of a factor for me to hand out a favorite point. If the cache isn't remarkable to me overall, I'm not giving it a point. I have many, many favorite points that I have yet to award. And that's ok with me, and should be ok with the OP as well.

 

^THIS^

[+Walts Hunting]

I'm going to plus one NeverSummer's post. I may do a day on my bike in an area and find thirty caches none of which will warrant a FP from me (Somebody commented that doing something like that means I am going to crappy caches which I disagree with just average ones) or I could have a day like yesterday where I found 6 and FP'd 4.

 

I will give one to a cache that is part of a string by the same cacher to show appreciation for it but maybe not. I recently did a GeoArt one in Ridgecrest that had 90 caches and he had requested notes both positive or negative be on two of them (I am guessing he has his email automatically trash the rest of the finds logs) and I FP'd them. Then I had 7 left over for other times. Like a 7 mile hike in San Luis Obispo where I gave out 5.

[JASTA 11]

 

This is how I use the favorite points too. Well said.

 

I have a total of 166 favorite points - gave out 152, have 14 remaining

 

What good does it do the community if I choose to give only the amazing (5/5) caches an FP, and let 1/2 of my FPs go to waste? I hope when people see my name on a FP list they'll know my style and think -- if Lone R favored this cache then it must at least have been a good hide, a maintained cache, in a quality container, in a decent location. When I look at an FP list I look for names I recognize, who use the FP vote appropriately -- to recommend above average caches.

 

L0ne R, I think you hit the nail on the head with the first few lines in your previous post (above).

 

What's on your Favorites List is a good indication of your caching style, and not all styles are alike. We like the higher terrain difficulty caches, but a 5/5 doesn't guarantee a favorite point from us.

 

We've earned 110 points and have used 75 of them, so it's not like we never award them.

 

It's left up to the cacher's discretion what kind of hides they'll favorite or not.

 

A well written log and word of mouth also go along way toward letting others know when a cache is worth searching for.

 

I'll disagree with the '... who use the FP vote appropriately...' part though.

[+L0ne.R]

This is how I use the favorite points too. Well said.

 

I have a total of 166 favorite points - gave out 152, have 14 remaining

 

What good does it do the community if I choose to give only the amazing (5/5) caches an FP, and let 1/2 of my FPs go to waste? I hope when people see my name on a FP list they'll know my style and think -- if Lone R favored this cache then it must at least have been a good hide, a maintained cache, in a quality container, in a decent location. When I look at an FP list I look for names I recognize, who use the FP vote appropriately -- to recommend above average caches.

 

L0ne R, I think you hit the nail on the head with the first few lines in your previous post (above).

 

What's on your Favorites List is a good indication of your caching style, and not all styles are alike. We like the higher terrain difficulty caches, but a 5/5 doesn't guarantee a favorite point from us.

 

Oops, my mistake. I didn't mean D/T rating. Rather, a rating that measures quality....a 5 out of 5 type of rating, as opposed to an average 3 out of 5 rating.

 

A well written log and word of mouth also go along way toward letting others know when a cache is worth searching for.

 

I agree, the current logs are an important resource for deciding whether a cache would be a good one to hunt.

 

Generally when I plan a geocaching outing (especially in a new area with lots to choose from), I run a PQ. Open the list, float the FPs to the top. Read a few of the current logs to see if the cache is something I'd like to try. If it's a good cache with no FPs I might miss it. C'est la vie. But the owner might have liked a visit to their cache. However, when I'm at a cache with some FPs I'll look for nearest caches and read the last few logs to see if it's worthwhile. So yes, well written logs do help me decide whether to hunt 1-FP or no-FP caches that are near caches that are highly favored.

 

I'll disagree with the '... who use the FP vote appropriately...' part though.

 

I probably should have said,' who use the FP vote as Groundspeak intends it to be used.'

[AZcachemeister]

I believe it's selfish to NEVER award favorite votes,

 

And I think it is selfish to be judgmental toward those who view parts of this game different than you. I award favorites to a few caches, but it is really not my place to judge those that never do. For what ever reason they have for not doing so.

This seems borderline pot and kettle.

 

I happen to view the favorite points differently than the OP. Rather than award I give the caches I like the most, I see the favorites a quick way to share with the geocaching community which caches I like. Anyone can look at my favorite and get a list of caches I like. They may be able to use my list in conjunction with other people's lists to find caches they might like.

 

I guess one of the definitions of selfish I learned in kindergarten was someone who doesn't share. In this respect I can agree that someone who never gives a favorite is in someway being a little selfish. On the other hand, someone may be reluctant or even embarrassed to share her personal preference with a large group of people she doesn't know. I have to admire the OP's willingness to admit that he likes micros.

 

The favorite point was never meant to be a 'score', but as a way to share your Geocaching experience.

But (in many ways), the Favorite Point is being used as and viewed as a 'scoring' situation.

 

Are you in favor of 'online scores', or not?

[+beaniejunkie]

I personally love the favorite points. I use them up as soon as I get them usually. I keep in mind the really good caches and cleaverly hidden ones and award as soon as I have the points. I think a person who goes out of his or her way to make an exceptional cache deserves some recognition.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I personally love the favorite points. I use them up as soon as I get them usually. I keep in mind the really good caches and cleaverly hidden ones and award as soon as I have the points. I think a person who goes out of his or her way to make an exceptional cache deserves some recognition.

 

I agree. There are some caches I wish I could give 10 FP to...or more.

 

I haven't used all of my favorite points. I try to be even more selective than the top 10%. Whenever this subject comes up, I am compelled to go through my list and see if there are any caches I've favorited that no longer "make the cut", but I'll be darned if every cache on my list brings back the memories of finding it and it remains as a favorite find.

[+Don_J]

 

.... When I look at an FP list I look for names I recognize, who use the FP vote appropriately -- to recommend above average caches.

 

But, they're 'Favorite Points'.

 

If they were 'Above Average Cache Points', wouldn't we earn 49 for every 100 caches found instead?

 

That would seem appropriate to me.

That would be above median points.

 

Of course colloquially average can mean any measure of central tendancy, not just the arithmetic mean, so for some an average cache may be one that has half the caches better and half the cache worse. But my guess is that people tend to assign some estimate of how much they enjoy a cache (for example on a scale of 1 to 5) and the arithmetic mean could be at the 90 percentile (9 out of 10 caches are below average). The problem here is that no two cachers have the same scale, so averaging the above average caches of several cachers doesn't have any real meaning (i.e. the percentage of premium members that give a cache a favorite point only tells you it that for premium cachers who found that particular cache, the probablity that they gave it a favorite vote; it does not indicate that the cache is any more likely to be above average).

 

Ideally, a favorite point means that I like this cache more than I liked 90% of the caches that I found. Since some of us are stingy, it means I like this cache more than I liked at least 90% of the caches I found.

 

For me, there is no math involved. If I am hiking along and I think, "Wow, what a cool trail", or I get to GZ and Mother Nature makes me think, "Wow", or I find the cache and it's so cleverly hidden that I think, "Wow", or the cache itself is so cleverly crafted that I think, "Wow", then that cache listing gets a favorite. That might be 5 out of 10 caches on a particular day, or it could be 1 out of a 100 spread out over two months.

 

There is no mutually exclusive reason why I assign favorites. It's for me as I can look at them later to remind me of the caches that stood out from the rest. It's an "atta boy" for the cache owner. If people like my caches, they can look at my list to see what caches I like and perhaps make a decision that they may like those caches as well.