Difficult Route To Cache

[+ByronForestPreserve]

Our forest preserve bought several acres of riverfront property that used to be a private camping area/boat launch. Whoo-hoo! Of course my first thought was to put a cache there. Problem is, the route to the property is a little sketchy, and Google Maps shows a road in the wrong place.

 

My options are to either wait several months--maybe a year or more--until our maintenance crew puts down new gravel on the road and puts signs up, which will solve the problem. Or I could give directions on the cache page, but I'm pretty sure that cachers who don't read the page would not get to the cache.

 

In a perfect world everyone reads the cache page before heading out, but we all know that's often not the case...

[+Bunya]

I think the answer is often "No, they don't read the cache page - at least not anything but the cache type, coords and hint".

More than once I've had cachers complain that one of my caches should have had a hint.

In fact it did have a hint, but it was in the description, not in the “Additional Hints” area.

After all, this area is called Additional Hints, implying that there may be hints elsewhere!

[+GeoTrekker26]

Our forest preserve bought several acres of riverfront property that used to be a private camping area/boat launch. Whoo-hoo! Of course my first thought was to put a cache there. Problem is, the route to the property is a little sketchy, and Google Maps shows a road in the wrong place.

 

My options are to either wait several months--maybe a year or more--until our maintenance crew puts down new gravel on the road and puts signs up, which will solve the problem. Or I could give directions on the cache page, but I'm pretty sure that cachers who don't read the page would not get to the cache.

 

In a perfect world everyone reads the cache page before heading out, but we all know that's often not the case...

 

No they (and often I) don't read the cache page before the fact. If the conditions permit, the best way to guide cachers to a cache is to make it a multi using intermediate stages to lead them where you want them to go.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

More than once I've had cachers complain that one of my caches should have had a hint.

In fact it did have a hint, but it was in the description, not in the "Additional Hints" area.

After all, this area is called Additional Hints, implying that there may be hints elsewhere!

 

You're overthinking it. Hints should go in the Additional Hint area. That's what it's for.

 

As for the OP, isn't finding a route to the cache part of the adventure? Unless they would be treading across something that's environmentally sensitive, let them figure out how to get to GZ on their own. You don't have to lead them by the hand.

[+pppingme]

If there's a new entrance or something, just add an additional coordinate for the parking entrance. I usually prefer parking coordinates that point to the entrance, not the parking spot itself, they just make more sense when driving.

[+Walts Hunting]

I only read the description if I can't find it after a few minutes.

 

There are a couple of ways to get people to read it. Make it a multi or mystery. A multi could start at the location where you want them to enter the place. Something there gets read and stage two calculated. Once you get them started it should work.

[+FMT15]

The path to the cache is where all the fun is.

[+ngrrfan]

The reality is that everyone will find a way to the cache, and then on the way out find an easier way to go. Several of mine are like that. If you follow the GPS you'll end up rock scrambling, or making a T4.5 hike. Once you find the cache and look around you'll spot easier ways that you could have come and the T rating drops way down to a 2.5.

[+dprovan]

People will read the description if they need to. And if they don't read about the cache, that may make it harder to find it. So what? Provide the information you want in a convenient place and don't worry about who bothers to look for it.

 

Think about it: your choice is to plant a great cache in a great location that some people won't be able to get to because they won't read your directions, or don't plant a cache at all, thus insuring that no one at all will be able to find it.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Echoing Walts Hunting - make a multi-cache.

 

One of the great strengths of the type is the way it can enforce a particular route. Use the least number of stages that will set people on the correct road to the correct trail (sounds like maybe only one, if the main issue is finding the entry road) and be generous with hints on those so that they go easily.

 

Multis will be found less then trads. So in a year or so, when a trad would work, you can archive the multi, move the final a bit and make it a trad. This lets you bring some people there now, and more people there later...

 

I own a multi that started out as a traditional. Because of the layout of caches on two adjacent properties, cachers were coming down a hill on well defined trail, running into a fence line, cache not far on the other side, and rather than turning away from their "goto" line looking for the walk-through, they'd climb the fence. This was damaging the fence and the county park rangers were not happy about it. The listing had coords for the walk-through. Too late, cachers were on point already.

 

I archived the traditional and redesigned it as an off set multi, the first stage coords at the sign on the walk-through, using a simple formula to generate coords for the final. Oddly, the original trad had no favorite points, and this multi-cache does. I don't really like this style a whole lot, where the numbers used are entirely forgettable, but it sure is useful. Nothing for you to maintain at the stage, and no shot of people not being able to find it. You might be able to do something like it.

 

http://coord.info/GC2RG40

[+wmpastor]

The path to the cache is where all the fun is.

True. I went to one cache where the access route was not clearly indicated in the listing. At first I thought that was a defect in the listing, but then I took it as a challenge. I used the map and the satellite image to decide what to do. A topo map would also have helped.

[+OZ2CPU]

we tried it many times, to actually be at GZ,

then open the cache page and read stuff,

the text could surprise us with :

WARNING you must follow this and that road, and then turn at the red house,

then enter bla bla and turn left,

to avoid the private property area with crasy old armed man..

 

oh that explain why it was so hard to get here....

 

------------

 

Listen :

here is how it works for MOST geocachers :

they only read the cache name and hint,

they drive their car as close to GZ as possible

most even offroad and park where they can, not where it is most legal

or most out of the way.

they walk as little as possible to GZ,

they follow a path if any there, if distance is short, they bush-wack it directly.

No Trespassing sign, means shortest possible route to cache.

 

-----

 

ok some of this is a joke, while some of it is true..

 

in other words : why place a cache where you allready feel the way to it will give alot of people trouble..

THINK.. others will not..

Edited May 2, 2013 by OZ2CPU

[+ras_oscar]

I generally load 5000-6000 caches into my GPS. For each cache I get the GC code, name, D/T, last 4 finds, date last found, and the hint. If I do a DNF, I will often check the web page to see if there was a trail head or parking coord, but I agree with above, finding the route in is part of the challenge. If the cache is difficult to get to, consider a higher terrain rating. I also load maps from open street maps that show trails. If I gather a group of caches on a trail system I wil generally add them to the map. If you have an inaccurate base map, consider adding the correct trail system to Open Street Map. Its not difficult, although I'm not sure how common OSM use is in geocaching.

[+Z_Statman]

Do recall the theme of geocaching is "Where you are the search engine" and that says it all

 

While I scan the cache description it more for what I am looking for (micro, regular, camo'd bison,...) and with this in mind, the type "not chosen" should be abolished - the cache is something even a container inside a container starts off as something so "micro well camo'd inside a host" versus the ridiculous "not chosen"

 

Let the war of opinions begin

[+3isamagic#]

If you are really worried, you could put something in the name of the cache like "Future Road" or "Don't believe everything your gps tells you" or you could do a series of "Better read the description first number 1"

[+NYPaddleCacher]

we tried it many times, to actually be at GZ,

then open the cache page and read stuff,

the text could surprise us with :

WARNING you must follow this and that road, and then turn at the red house,

then enter bla bla and turn left,

to avoid the private property area with crasy old armed man..

 

oh that explain why it was so hard to get here....

 

------------

 

Listen :

here is how it works for MOST geocachers :

they only read the cache name and hint,

they drive their car as close to GZ as possible

most even offroad and park where they can, not where it is most legal

or most out of the way.

they walk as little as possible to GZ,

they follow a path if any there, if distance is short, they bush-wack it directly.

No Trespassing sign, means shortest possible route to cache.

 

-----

 

ok some of this is a joke, while some of it is true..

 

in other words : why place a cache where you allready feel the way to it will give alot of people trouble..

THINK.. others will not..

 

Your list of "how it works" looks pretty close to me but I disagree with the notion that a CO is placing a cache knowing that it will give people trouble.

 

I have a cache that I placed a few years ago in a spot that lots of people see every day but don't actually visit unless they'll going after my cache. When I went to place it I discovered that GZ is accessible via an undeveloped rail-to-trail. Basically there is a short trail where their used to be a rail line. It's undeveloped but gets just enough use that there is a obvious path. There's a place to park about 400 feet from GZ at the entrance to a portion of the trail and I include those parking coordinates on the cache page and recommended using them in the description. If someone take that approach they'll have a short, flat 400 foot walk that goes past a really pretty small gorge with a spur trail that could be explored. However, there's also small turnout about 100 feet from GZ with a place where one could park and scramble up a hill to get to GZ. It's clear from many of the logs that many either don't read the description or ignore the recommended parking coordinates and instead try to drive a close as they can to GZ before getting out of their vehicle. As a result, they miss out on one of the reason I placed that cache: to take people down a pretty little trail that few are aware even exists. There *have* been a few logs that mentioned using the recommended parking coordinates and also mentioned what a nice little trail they found.

[+Off Grid]

we tried it many times, to actually be at GZ,

then open the cache page and read stuff,

the text could surprise us with :

WARNING you must follow this and that road, and then turn at the red house,

then enter bla bla and turn left,

to avoid the private property area with crasy old armed man..

 

oh that explain why it was so hard to get here....

 

------------

 

Listen :

here is how it works for MOST geocachers :

they only read the cache name and hint,

they drive their car as close to GZ as possible

most even offroad and park where they can, not where it is most legal

or most out of the way.

they walk as little as possible to GZ,

they follow a path if any there, if distance is short, they bush-wack it directly.

No Trespassing sign, means shortest possible route to cache.

 

-----

 

ok some of this is a joke, while some of it is true..

 

in other words : why place a cache where you allready feel the way to it will give alot of people trouble..

THINK.. others will not..

Hahahahahahahaha I agree that's what it seem. Sometimes I just want parking coordinates

[+UMainah]

Google Maps shows a road in the wrong place.

You can fix this here: http://www.google.com/mapmaker

[+The_Incredibles_]

No, you can't expect them to read it. Your best bet is to include a parking waypoint so it shows up on their GPS. And make it a multi.

[+ByronForestPreserve]

Thanks for the input! I think I'll make it a two-stage multi for now, and then put in a traditional as well a bit farther back. There's a fencepost partway down the road with the old "Boat Club--No Trespassing" sign (which was part of the difficulty), so it might be a good idea to have the first container there with a note that says "Ignore this!" and clear directions to parking. I doubt our crew will take that down until they have an entrance sign fabricated, which sounds like it will be next summer when it "officially" opens. I am allowed to put a cache out now, though, and I like the idea of cachers getting a sneak preview of the property. It already has a picnic shelter and amenities, and we will be using the property for programs and canoeing starting in June.

 

Thanks!

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Personally, I've put a lot of work into my cache descriptions. I want people to read them.

 

I know that many people don't, and as far as I'm concerned if they can't find something or can't get there because they haven't read my work, I can't feel sorry for them.

 

I know, I know, you load 4-5,000 caches at a time, and find 250 a day and don't have time, blah, blah, blah. Not my problem.

 

I always read forum postings about how you can't force people to do things like read descriptions because everybody plays this game differently. I buy into that concept, but in this case it simply works the other way.

 

And, I wouldn't turn a perfectly good stand-alone cache into a multicache just to help people blindly hunt.

 

*Edited to insert missing word.

Edited May 3, 2013 by TeamRabbitRun

[+JL_HSTRE]

the best way to guide cachers to a cache is to make it a multi using intermediate stages to lead them where you want them to go.

 

+1

[+TerraViators]

I read the cache description. As a former journalist, I enjoy the write ups, the comedy and the formatting.

[GPS-Hermit]

If I get home and found out I should have read the cache page I blame myself instead of the CO. Some caches just have the co-ords and almost nothing else, making it all up to you. I recommend you decide if someone will have fun working there way in there or will they hate the hassel of thick bushy woods and thorns to deal with. Most bush whackers prefer reasonably doable woods to trek thru. The route to the cache needs to be something they can figure out without too many trial and errors. Look for old road beds and feel free to add waypoints to your description to help get them started or keep them on track. That will teach carefull reading. Ha HA! I think encouraging them to read the desription is a good thing. GO FOR IT get them out there!

[+TeamRabbitRun]

How many times have you read "The cache is not at the posted coordinates...."?

 

While this SHOULD be an 'unknown' cache type, you can't depend on that blue question mark.

[+ByronForestPreserve]

If I get home and found out I should have read the cache page I blame myself instead of the CO. Some caches just have the co-ords and almost nothing else, making it all up to you. I recommend you decide if someone will have fun working there way in there or will they hate the hassel of thick bushy woods and thorns to deal with. Most bush whackers prefer reasonably doable woods to trek thru. The route to the cache needs to be something they can figure out without too many trial and errors. Look for old road beds and feel free to add waypoints to your description to help get them started or keep them on track. That will teach carefull reading. Ha HA! I think encouraging them to read the desription is a good thing. GO FOR IT get them out there!

 

It's not that they'd have to bushwhack, or at least not far. It's that the entry road looks like an access road for the farmer who owns the adjacent property. I have driven past it for ten years and never thought it was anything but a dirt track for farm equipment. Once you get 1/4 mile down the lane it's obvious the fence is on the other side and it isn't part of the farm field after all. But unless you knew that, you'd never turn in there in the first place.

[+ByronForestPreserve]

Google Maps shows a road in the wrong place.

You can fix this here: http://www.google.com/mapmaker

 

Thank you! I have done that, and it looks like it's on the way to being approved. I just checked, and the road shows up now! Yay. That will certainly solve at least half of the problem. It still looks like part of the farm land in person, but at least it's on the map.

Edited May 8, 2013 by ByronForestPreserve

[+LightHouseSeekers]

Use some additional waypoints for the entrance to the correct road, parking, trailhead and maybe make it a multi.

[+Trucker Lee]

I most often don't have the luxury of reading the cache page before hunting as I load from PQs through GSAK. The only notes I have with me are what comes through a macro run on my filter in GSAK, although I have on occasion jumped online to check something if a cache particularly befuddled me and phone data service was available. But then, I most often have the grandest time trying to find my way around the obstacles in my path, having more fun finding my way to the cache area than the find.

[+popokiiti]

Description will always be read after a recent experience! In a hurry, we left the car, climbed up the bank and close to GZ started a fruitless search. Then the cache was spied - on private property! Yes, it clearly stated that in the description that I hadn't read! Now, I refuse to be rushed...that description will be read, even if it takes longer! All I ask is please don't write a thesis as a description