Smith & Wesson

24.7k · July 16, 2003

Does anyone know what S&W models have been modified per the Agreement that S&W signed with HUD?

I rather like the 340PD, but I don't want to get someting if they have been modified to a kindler gentler pistol. That defeates the purpose.

Anything else out there similar? This one is light but pricey. 568 at a discount store.

1.4k · July 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
Does anyone know what S&W models have been modified per the Agreement that S&W signed with HUD?

One of the better things GWB did was to release S&W from that agreement. I do not know much about S&W any more. Once they knuckled under to the Klinton mandate, most gun owners abandoned S&W.

If you want lightweight power for defensive purposes, try what my wife got. A Taurus 617 revolver. Lightweight titanium, 7 shot .357 magnum. I love it too. Kicks like a mule, but easy to carry.

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

24.7k · July 17, 2003

Thanks Desert_Warrior

In digging up some info I came accross a thread on that. Glock refused to buy into any agreemetn (that too is on my list but they didn't compromise so no worries) I'll take a look at the Taurus. It's been mentoned more than once as the S&W alternate for former S&W fans. Besides you nailed my reasons for liking that particualr S&W.

1.3k · July 17, 2003

I'm pretty happy with my Sigma SW40V. Sadly, it's post ban mags. I just can't bring myself to lay out over a hundred bucks for a pre ban. I could buy a couple more 10 rounders for less than that. Not that I'm complacent or anything.

"Chock full of essential vitamins and waypoints"

1.4k · July 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BloenCustoms:
I'm pretty happy with my Sigma SW40V. Sadly, it's post ban mags. I just can't bring myself to lay out over a hundred bucks for a pre ban. I could buy a couple more 10 rounders for less than that. Not that I'm complacent or anything.

I lucked out and got my Glock, also in .40 S&W, right before the ban so I got the 2 15's. I see mags for sale every so often for around $100-125 for a pre ban mag for my model 22. If i ever get a new one I guess I will get a .45 now since the mag cap. will most likly be the same.

July 17, 2003

Ahhh, technology (GPS) and guns! What more could a guy ask for? It is my understanding that S&W is not the same company any longer having been totally bought out. At any rate, my wife doesn't care for her Lady Smith Airweight hammerless in .38 SPL so I guess I'll carry it. Only five shots but as in most things success is in location, location, location. And that still leaves me two to play with.

1.3k · July 18, 2003

Truth be told, I'd rather have it in 9mm. Less power, but in the event of a total societal breakdown, or invasion, chances are the bad guys will have your caliber on them in the event you should run low.

"Chock full of essential vitamins and waypoints"

July 18, 2003

Enough time has gone by since the magazine round cut-down to ten. I think we should lobby congress to get the thing removed. Let's all contact the NRA and get the ball rolling.

Firefishe

Caching In On The Journey

The year is 2003.

The name is S.A. Brown.

BrowNAV (Brown Navigation)

July 18, 2003

I have a Khar K40 and have been very happy with it. It's also easy to carry and conceal.

If you get lost while geocaching, don't worry. Someone else will get lost while geocaching and find you.

1.4k · July 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Firefishe:
Enough time has gone by since the magazine round cut-down to ten. I think we should lobby congress to get the thing removed. Let's all contact the NRA and get the ball rolling.

That bill had an experation date on it that is coming up soon. So if it gets pushed aside it may get removed. No telling though if that will happen.

1.4k · July 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BloenCustoms:
Truth be told, I'd rather have it in 9mm. Less power, but in the event of a total societal breakdown, or invasion, chances are the bad guys will have your caliber on them in the event you should run low.

If that happend I would hope I could pick up something up that was a little more effective in that situation. Like something in a 7.62mm.

1.4k · July 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Firefishe:
Enough time has gone by since the magazine round cut-down to ten. I think we should lobby congress to get the thing removed. Let's all contact the NRA and get the ball rolling.

I will tell you how to get it done. It will take a bit of your time and effort, so if you really don't mean to do it, stop reading now.

I wrote a letter. Including the parts of the sunset on tis law, the letter ran 4 pages. I sent it to every politicritter on my chain of command. From President Bush, Cheney, senators, house reps, and the GOP and DNC party presidents.

In simple words, I promised them that ANY politicritter who made the mistake of signing on to the renewal of this law would be placed on my list, and that I would ACTIVELY campaign to sink their chances of getting into office by any means available. Furthermore, I would give no further political contributions to ANYONE until this law was gone. Too bad it falls so close to the elections. I also promised to leave an office blank if all candidates were on the list.

Ask them, can they afford to have 5 million NRA members quit donating to them, not voting for them. 15 million family members supporting the NRA members. How many more gun owners?

Take the time, write the letter. Send it to them all!

Or do nothing and hope my letter was enough!

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

July 18, 2003

Ruger and the NRA had much to do with the 10 round getting buy. Ruger bc it was loosing a boat load of money to a newer company called Glock with high cap mags with the NRA it was a compromise.

"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines.

"By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item.

"A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives."

William B. Ruger

Sturm, Ruger Firearms

This letter was taken from the American Handgunner magazine, dated Sept 1992 page 18.

July 19, 2003

I have the .38 special version of that S&W gun. Is it called the 342? I don't remember. I have it for concealed carry with a permit.

Having 5 shots makes it very small and narrow. The light weight and smallness makes it very easy to carry in my pants pocket with no one noticing what I am carrying. No exposed hammer makes it very easy to pull from my pocket. Also that removes one opening that pocket lint and dirt can get into.

Being a revolver it will always work, dirty or clean.

If 5 shots doesn't take care of the situation then I'm out gunned anyway and need more shooters on my side.

The short barrel is not very accurate beyond 30-40 feet but the law says if I am that far away from the threat then I have to run anyway.

I'm happy with mine.

Just my opinion.

Bobby

24.7k · July 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bherder:
Ruger and the NRA had much to do with the 10 round getting buy. Ruger bc it was loosing a boat load of money to a newer company called Glock with high cap mags with the NRA it was a compromise.

I like taking things to their logical extreme to see if they still make sence.

If you take it as bullet capacity then why 10? Why not 5, or a single shot. Surly at close range a single round is enough for self defense. It seems that it would soon become an issue that their are any bullets at all so that the police could better do their job. An unfotunate reality of police work is that much of it is forensic.

In this light reducing capacity is just a step on the way to a ban. The fight to bring back even normal clips now has to wade through the argument of how many rounds is enough. The original argument was a compromise on that question. It's the wrong questions. Nowhere does the right to bear arms depend on ammo, and yet without ammo it's not an 'arm' it's a club or a rock.

bdaniel, good points. That's why I was looking at that particualr S&W. 357 for it's better stopping power. Airlight for it's light weight and small size.

[This message was edited by Renegade Knight on July 19, 2003 at 07:32 AM.]

July 20, 2003

I went with with the Glock 21 over the Ruger because of capacity. I happy I did. The next one will probably be the Tauris 617 Stainless W/ concelled hammer. I like something that small with 7 rounds. Now if IL would legalize concelled carry.

July 28, 2003

I hate S&W, but I like their revolvers. Have you looked into the 360PD model? It is similar to the 340 but has HiViz sights and a darker finish.

July 30, 2003

According to an artile in American Riffleman S&W is now American owned again. With the change of ownership they are also out from under that stupid deal they agreed to.

The new 50cal revolver is out, S&W now again makes the most powerful handgun in the world.

I don't have that many handguns, just a model 27 smith .357 and a smith .22cal revolver. Then 12 other riffles and shotguns......

1.5k · July 31, 2003

Not quite sure I'd want a revolver that breaks your wrist in one shot. It would be kinda like bringing a single-shot .22 to a gun battle.

Brian

Team A.I.

September 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
bdaniel, good points. That's why I was looking at that particualr S&W. 357 for it's better stopping power. Airlight for it's light weight and small size.

[This message was edited by Renegade Knight on July 19, 2003 at 07:32 AM.]

RK, have you actually fired one of those thing? Not my idea of a good time. I prefer the all steel versions, but to each his own.

As for the changes in which models - it is my understanding that all S&W revolvers, with the possible exception of some Performance Center guns, are now equipped with an internal trigger locking device. Known to many gunnies as "the safety zit", it seems fairly innocuous. You can just leave it unlocked if you wish, and it doesn't get in the way. I wouldn't let it concern me enough to effect my choice of gun.

Anyway, the really onerous stuff had nothing to do with the actual design of the guns - and it seems that those ltlle treats may now be history.

BTW - I carried the flag for the S&W boycott in my area. With the company in new (American!) ownership, the boycott is officially over, as far as I'm concerned.

"...clear as mud?"

September 7, 2003

You can talk your auto. all you want to, and to be truthful I do like them myself. But, in time each and every auto. will jam. That why I trust & love my Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 mag. The way I see it, if I'm going to shoot a intruder in my home, I don't want to just wound him, I want to blow him through my front door & put a B I G hole in him. Besides that there is nothing like shooting a large bore handgun.

*** Long Live the NRA !! ***

September 13, 2003

My brother has a Glock model 22 40. caliber pistol it is one of the most reliable guns out ther it has never ever jammed...there have even been tests where they have frozen the gun in an ice block for 2 years then took it out and fired 1000 rounds and not one problem they can shoot underwater and other weird things like that they are great guns so if you are looking for a gun to buy buy a Glock!

2.7k · September 14, 2003

My next handgun will Rugers new .17 cal rimfire revolver.

That's stopping power!

(no that is not a misprint, and it is a real firearm)

---------------------

Don't hurt me. I'm new here.

September 14, 2003

Personally, I don't like the lightweight S&W, I found it hard to shoot, probably because it was so light. I only put 20 rounds through one, but found I was shooting better with my Stainless .38 special, same barrel length (2 1/2"?)

just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you

September 17, 2003

The .38 special is probably still the King of home defense IMHO. I'd also give honorable mention to the .45 and 12 gauge shotgun. Why?

Because other rounds are going to go through multiple walls possibly hitting your kids or neighbors.

And the whole argument about round capacity (i.e super mags) is a mute point. Gun fights are short in duration. If you can't hit them w/ six rounds from a revolver you might as well save the last round for yourself.

Snipe33

2.7k · September 17, 2003

/agree

And use hollowpoints for home defense, not ball ammo, for the same reason posted above: ball ammo will got hrough walls with very little resistance. Hollowpoints 'mushroom' and create more drag (if they dont break apart, even) and be stopped 'sooner'.

---------------------

Don't hurt me. I'm new here.

4.5k · September 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Snipe33:
...And the whole argument about round capacity (i.e super mags) is a mute point. Gun fights are short in duration. If you can't hit them w/ six rounds from a revolver you might as well save the last round for yourself.

Snipe33

What makes you so sure they'll have any better luck on themselves?

Alan

2.3k · September 18, 2003

It is my humble opinion that this thread is off topic to the sport of Geocaching. It would be nice if it died and slid off the page.

CO Admin

Bureaucratic nonsense and petty power mongering a speciality

The Frog is my friend

1.4k · September 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by CO Admin:
It is my humble opinion that this thread is off topic to the sport of Geocaching. It would be nice if it died and slid off the page.

I respectfully disagree. Many of us cache in out of the way areas. And many of us are legally licensed to carry a firearm. It is a tool, another piece of gear. And like any other, some carry it and some don't. But calling our discussion of this piece of gear off topic would be the same as declaring the camelbak thread off-topic because not every cacher carries one. Gear is in the eye of the beholder. This particular thread has been quite civil - don't you agree?

Again, and quite respectfully (as I suck up so I don't get banned for life) I disagree.

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

2.3k · September 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Warrior:

quote:
Originally posted by CO Admin:
It is my humble opinion that this thread is off topic to the sport of Geocaching. It would be nice if it died and slid off the page.

I respectfully disagree. Many of us cache in out of the way areas. And many of us are legally licensed to carry a firearm. It is a tool, another piece of gear. And like any other, some carry it and some don't. But calling our discussion of this piece of gear off topic would be the same as declaring the camelbak thread off-topic because not every cacher carries one. Gear is in the eye of the beholder. This particular thread has been quite civil - don't you agree?

Again, and quite respectfully (as I suck up so I don't get banned for life) I disagree.

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

I too am licensed to carry in the state of Colorado. I enjoy guns.

A discussion of carrying guns while caching is on-topic, INCLUDING what types pack well, etc. However, debate about gun vs. anti-gun, 2nd amendment, etc. is off-topic and after a certain point, talking about howitzers and uzi's becomes off-topic.

CO Admin

I work for the Hottie that works for the Frog

The Frog is my friend

[This message was edited by CO Admin on September 18, 2003 at 08:04 PM.]

1.4k · September 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by CO Admin:
I too am licensed to carry in the state of Colorado. I enjoy guns.

A discussion of carrying guns while caching is on-topic, INCLUDING what types pack well, etc. However, debate about gun vs. anti-gun, 2nd amendment, etc. is off-topic and after a certain point, talking about howitzers and uzi's becomes off-topic.

I guess I see your point... someone DID mention a .50 AE pistol, the next thing to a Howitzer, on here earlier! The original message was about the airweight, and my follow-up was the Taurus Titanium, both fine back-packing guns. The .50 AE was off topic.

Mike.

September 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Warrior:

quote:
Originally posted by CO Admin:
I too am licensed to carry

I guess I see your point...

Mike.

Looks like we're going to see who has the most fire power, at least in the forums.

4.5k · September 19, 2003

quote:
A discussion of carrying guns while caching is on-topic, INCLUDING what types pack well, etc. However, debate about gun vs. anti-gun, 2nd amendment, etc. is off-topic and after a certain point, talking about howitzers and uzi's becomes off-topic.

I don't own a gun and it's practically impossible to get a carry license in NY. However, I agree with the above post and cachers should be allowed to chat about this as its something you do, use or carry while caching.

My own poll on the subject showed 2/3 of cachers own a gun and about half of those carry while caching. Can't find the poll right now, but those were the numbers when I looked awhile back.

ALan

1.2k · September 19, 2003

Having carried for about 24 years now, on a daily basis, I've handled a lot of handguns. On various assignments both with the military and police, I've carried the smith .38 & .357 revolvers, Colt .45 slabsides, Berreta 9mm, .40 cal, .22 cal and .380. I've fired just about everything under the sun in the pistol, rifle and shotgun range of weapons (as well as a bunch of stuff in the military that would be waaaaaaay off topic) and I find I like to have my full duty weapon and loads with me when I Geocache.

Admittedly, I'm required to carry off-duty, but even if I wasn't, I would. We hunt caches wherever they are, and some of those places are not necessarily in the best places, if ya know what I mean. I've been very surprised to find some of the really lousy places people place caches...lol. If you get the chance to hit any of mine down here on the coast of Texas, you'll probably say to yourself...*Man, what a nice field of fire around this cache...* LOL.

"Afghanistan was a battle. Iraq was a battle. The war goes on."

September 19, 2003

I always carry my sidearm off-duty too while caching. You never know who you might run into out there doing who-knows-what....

D'oh.

Snipe33

September 19, 2003

I carry a cutlass and me trusty dagger, good fer carvin' the hearts outa the scurvy swine that try ta steal me booty! Arrrrrr!

--------------------

Searching for the lost, Geocache.......

4.1k · September 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Brian - Team A.I.:
Not quite sure I'd want a revolver that breaks your wrist in one shot. It would be kinda like bringing a single-shot .22 to a gun battle.

Brian

Team A.I.

With a 50 cal. you only need one shot...if you wait until they are all lined up

2oldfarts

*******************************************************

Everybody is entitled to my opinion - the ornery oldfart

2.3k · September 19, 2003

This thread has out lived its usefulness here. It is again going off topic.

CO Admin

I work for the Hottie that works for the Frog

The Frog is my friend

Smith & Wesson

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