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Different prices of Premium Membership


Tschakko
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It is my humble opinion that we should maybe tone down the rhetoric and give GS time to develop and provide a proper solution.

And how long should that take? It's so very simple. I am subscribed to several content, both physical (i.e. printed) and digital, from several companies from different countries all over the world. Any single one of the companies dropped me a note in advance in case they had to change their subsciption rates. Why is it so hard for Groundspeak to do that as well? Oh, and I get propper invoices from any of the companies, by the way...

 

Edit: typos

Edited by squirrel42
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It is my humble opinion that we should maybe tone down the rhetoric and give GS time to develop and provide a proper solution.

 

Thats right! BUT ... our posts seemed to be ignored and the mail-conversation (as you can see in my post) is not amusing. It would have be a big, huge impact to this situation, if someone posts some informations, if GS is doing anything concerning this problem. At the moment it seems to me, that GS just noticed, that the first information went wrong, they decided to change the reason for the new price (still unbelivable) and thats it. This situation reminds me of a song "Hard to say I´m sorry" ... :rolleyes:

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If that were true then every company anywhere in the world who ever sold any products to anyone in the EU would have to abide by EU law.

Do not mix up physical products and digital content. For physcal products the customer pays the tax when receiving the product.

 

Example: I live in Germany and I ordered a smartphone from a Chinese company a few weeks ago. I paid the net price to the Chinese company and paid the tax when I got the product (Einfuhrumsatztsteuer is the term propper in German and that is nothing else than a VAT equivalent for products bought outside the EU).

 

But for digital content, the issuing company has to collect the tax and forward it to the tax authorites.

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Yes. The problem is enforcement, which as previously discussed can be done via bilateral trade treaties.

 

If it's legally enforcable then I wonder why Groundspeak posted in a reply to a member (quoted earlier in the thread) that they "thought long and hard" about charging VAT. When I invoice a customer the thought process over whether to charge VAT is pretty straightforward - HMRC determines whether a supply is subject to VAT (mine all are), so VAT is added, end of consideration. I don't get to "think long and hard" about whether I should charge it or not, HMRC decides that for me and that's pretty much the end of it.

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If that were true then every company anywhere in the world who ever sold any products to anyone in the EU would have to abide by EU law.

Do not mix up physical products and digital content. For physcal products the customer pays the tax when receiving the product.

 

Example: I live in Germany and I ordered a smartphone from a Chinese company a few weeks ago. I paid the net price to the Chinese company and paid the tax when I got the product (Einfuhrumsatztsteuer is the term propper in German and that is nothing else than a VAT equivalent for products bought outside the EU).

 

But for digital content, the issuing company has to collect the tax and forward it to the tax authorites.

 

I see the distinction but "the issuing company has to collect the tax" depends on what, if any, jurisdiction the tax authorities have over the issuing company in the first place.

 

If there's a way it can be enforced (and there may be, but it would be nice for Groundspeak to tell us what's going on) then it has to be charged. But for Groundspeak to refer to how they "thought long and hard" about whether to charge it does rather suggest it's not enforceable, or their "thought long and hard" would have been a very short "decided to comply with regulations".

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Just got the "your PM is expiring" email. It includes this snippet:

 

If you currently pay via a recurring PayPal payment, please cancel this payment and renew your Premium Membership via the Groundspeak Premium Membership upgrade page

 

Am I correct in understanding that following that instruction would cancel the US$30 membership and replace it with a €30 membership?

 

THIS IS NOT THE MEMBERSHIP YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

 

LOOK, over there! That one is SO much nicer! :)

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If it's legally enforcable then I wonder why Groundspeak posted in a reply to a member (quoted earlier in the thread) that they "thought long and hard" about charging VAT.

 

Well, perhaps they thought long and hard about whether they wanted to be able to visit Europe in the future ;)

 

Perhaps. Maybe they're "thinking long and hard" about whether to bother telling their paying customers just what's really going on.

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This is just me throwing stuff out there.

 

I am guessing that if they ever wanted to open a distribution center for cache supplies, or place a small office somewhere in Europe, they would be responsible for all the past VAT taxes. So if they ever wanted to keep that option open they would need to be paying the VAT

 

If I was selling something out of my home, and I was never growing, I would not worry about it. But if I was a growing company and I had a long term plan with the possibility then I would want to keep up on my payments.

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This is just me throwing stuff out there.

 

I am guessing that if they ever wanted to open a distribution center for cache supplies, or place a small office somewhere in Europe, they would be responsible for all the past VAT taxes. So if they ever wanted to keep that option open they would need to be paying the VAT

 

I can only imagine the "learning curve" regarding European employment legislation if that ever happened.

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I'm sure it's all been said before, but here's my two-penn'orth:

 

I've just logged on to GC to renew our membership and was shocked to see that US$29.99 "becomes" £24.99 in the UK. Last year our GC membership (paid by credit card) cost £19.35. No bank charges, no commission, no extra charges.

 

GC send us weekly emails about new caches, events near us, maintaining our caches etc, but as far as I can see, no mention has been made of the price increase. This is such a simple way to communicate with a huge loyal customer base. How hard can it be to announce a price increase in an email which goes out weekly?

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This is just me throwing stuff out there.

 

I am guessing that if they ever wanted to open a distribution center for cache supplies, or place a small office somewhere in Europe, they would be responsible for all the past VAT taxes. So if they ever wanted to keep that option open they would need to be paying the VAT

 

If I was selling something out of my home, and I was never growing, I would not worry about it. But if I was a growing company and I had a long term plan with the possibility then I would want to keep up on my payments.

 

That is a reasonable guess as any.

 

There is a difference between jurisdiction to impose a tax and the means to enforce it. The United States Department of Commerce advises that "U.S.-based companies selling ESS to EU-based non-business customers must now collect VAT on sales at the rate applicable in the place where the customer resides." I take it to mean that the U.S. acknowledges the EU's authority to develop a scheme to collect VAT for electronic services. There were some initial protests or concerns, but apparently those have been resolved.

 

Even if the EU does not have a direct means of enforcing that obligation and relies upon voluntary compliance, Groundspeak would have to make a business decision about whether to comply. I am sure that it involved it a "long and hard" thought process, but there may have been a number of considerations. Like any other business, perhaps, they had to decide whether it would be in their interests to begin compliance. However, since communication from Groundspeak is minimal at best, all we can do is speculate.

Edited by geodarts
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This is just me throwing stuff out there.

 

I am guessing that if they ever wanted to open a distribution center for cache supplies, or place a small office somewhere in Europe, they would be responsible for all the past VAT taxes. So if they ever wanted to keep that option open they would need to be paying the VAT

 

If I was selling something out of my home, and I was never growing, I would not worry about it. But if I was a growing company and I had a long term plan with the possibility then I would want to keep up on my payments.

 

That is a reasonable guess as any.

 

There is a difference between jurisdiction to impose a tax and the means to enforce it. The United States Department of Commerce advises that "U.S.-based companies selling ESS to EU-based non-business customers must now collect VAT on sales at the rate applicable in the place where the customer resides." I take it to mean that the U.S. acknowledges the EU's authority to develop a scheme to collect VAT for electronic services. There were some initial protests or concerns, but apparently those have been resolved.

 

Even if the EU does not have a direct means of enforcing that obligation and relies upon voluntary compliance, Groundspeak would have to make a business decision about whether to comply. I am sure that it involved it a "long and hard" thought process, but there may have been a number of considerations. Like any other business, perhaps, they had to decide whether it would be in their interests to begin compliance. However, since communication from Groundspeak is minimal at best, all we can do is speculate.

 

That's interesting. If the US has a law requiring VAT to be collected that clearly would apply to Groundspeak although if they are supposed to collect it at the rate applicable where the customer resides that rather blows a hole in the idea of charging 20%, given the differing rates of VAT acros Europe.

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This is just me throwing stuff out there.

 

I am guessing that if they ever wanted to open a distribution center for cache supplies, or place a small office somewhere in Europe, they would be responsible for all the past VAT taxes. So if they ever wanted to keep that option open they would need to be paying the VAT

 

If I was selling something out of my home, and I was never growing, I would not worry about it. But if I was a growing company and I had a long term plan with the possibility then I would want to keep up on my payments.

 

That is a reasonable guess as any.

 

There is a difference between jurisdiction to impose a tax and the means to enforce it. The United States Department of Commerce advises that "U.S.-based companies selling ESS to EU-based non-business customers must now collect VAT on sales at the rate applicable in the place where the customer resides." I take it to mean that the U.S. acknowledges the EU's authority to develop a scheme to collect VAT for electronic services. There were some initial protests or concerns, but apparently those have been resolved.

 

Even if the EU does not have a direct means of enforcing that obligation and relies upon voluntary compliance, Groundspeak would have to make a business decision about whether to comply. I am sure that it involved it a "long and hard" thought process, but there may have been a number of considerations. Like any other business, perhaps, they had to decide whether it would be in their interests to begin compliance. However, since communication from Groundspeak is minimal at best, all we can do is speculate.

 

Unless Groundspeak has plans to expand into Europe it's hard to see why a voluntary charge would require a "long and hard" thought process. Given the choice between increasing your price to thousands of customers by 20% or not increasing your price, when increasing your price upsets your customers and offers you no benefit, it's hard to think of very many reasons to charge the VAT unless it were legally enforceable.

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Maybe GS had not recognized the problems cause they ignore the forum :blink:

 

Well they don't ignore the forum completely because we had Bryan comment on here and he's one of the head honcho's at GS HQ; but then again that was 5 days ago and we've heard nothing since :mad: - is this because they really have no idea what they're doing and they're trying to come up with a strategy to get themselves out of this hole :unsure: ?

 

If their strategy is "ignore it and it will go away" then I think they're in for a rude awakening.

 

This really is an appalling way to run a business :(

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That's interesting. If the US has a law requiring VAT to be collected that clearly would apply to Groundspeak although if they are supposed to collect it at the rate applicable where the customer resides that rather blows a hole in the idea of charging 20%, given the differing rates of VAT acros Europe.

 

The US does not have a law, but its commerce department appears to acknowledge that the EU can impose the ESS VAT on their citizens and states that US companies "must" collect it. The EU has long held that the VAT simply implements policy of the OECD (Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development) that was established in 1998, but I would not begin to try to analyze about how it all plays out under international law. As far as I can tell, it would be a business decision about whether a particular US company takes this advice or not. It would be interesting to know if Groundspeak believes that they may be subject to enforcement either now or at some point in the future.

 

Under the special scheme, Groundspeak can submit payment to a single VAT authority (in this case, the U.K.) but must charge different rates depending on where their customers are based, which will then be distributed accordingly. .

Edited by geodarts
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That's interesting. If the US has a law requiring VAT to be collected that clearly would apply to Groundspeak although if they are supposed to collect it at the rate applicable where the customer resides that rather blows a hole in the idea of charging 20%, given the differing rates of VAT acros Europe.

 

The US does not have a law, but its commerce department appears to acknowledge that the EU can impose the ESS VAT on their citizens and states that US companies "must" collect it. The EU has long held that the VAT simply implements policy of the OECD (Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development) that was established in 1998, but I would not begin to try to analyze about how it all plays out under international law. As far as I can tell, it would be a business decision about whether a particular US company takes this advice or not. It would be interesting to know if Groundspeak believes that they may be subject to enforcement either now or at some point in the future.

 

That makes more sense than anything Groundspeak have said so far.

 

Under the special scheme, Groundspeak can submit payment to a single VAT authority (in this case, the U.K.) but must charge different rates depending on where their customers are based, which will then be distributed accordingly.

 

So it looks like they are already doing it wrong. It's probably academic though, I suspect every geocacher in Europe will be living in Delaware before long B)

Edited by team tisri
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I'm sure it's all been said before, but here's my two-penn'orth:

 

I've just logged on to GC to renew our membership and was shocked to see that US$29.99 "becomes" £24.99 in the UK. Last year our GC membership (paid by credit card) cost £19.35. No bank charges, no commission, no extra charges.

 

GC send us weekly emails about new caches, events near us, maintaining our caches etc, but as far as I can see, no mention has been made of the price increase. This is such a simple way to communicate with a huge loyal customer base. How hard can it be to announce a price increase in an email which goes out weekly?

 

AGREE!

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It's probably academic though, I suspect every geocacher in Europe will be living in Delaware before long B)

 

Well, I'm not a keen worshipper of USA, but is Delaware a nice place to 'live' in?

 

If you like a zero sales tax it's great. And since the product is virtual it's easy to see how people might effect a virtual (and temporary) move to Delaware.

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It's probably academic though, I suspect every geocacher in Europe will be living in Delaware before long B)

 

Well, I'm not a keen worshipper of USA, but is Delaware a nice place to 'live' in?

 

If you like a zero sales tax it's great. And since the product is virtual it's easy to see how people might effect a virtual (and temporary) move to Delaware.

Oregon is another state with zero sales tax.

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It's probably academic though, I suspect every geocacher in Europe will be living in Delaware before long B)

 

Well, I'm not a keen worshipper of USA, but is Delaware a nice place to 'live' in?

 

If you like a zero sales tax it's great. And since the product is virtual it's easy to see how people might effect a virtual (and temporary) move to Delaware.

 

It is the "garden state" but I used to think that only Joe Biden and corporations lived there.

 

In any event, that would be simpler than the present system. Unless I have misunderstood Bryan's post, by charging one inclusive rate that applies across the EU or the UK, those who live in Luxembourg (with a lower VAT rate) would be paying more for Groundspeak's services than those in Belgium (a higher VAT rate). On top of that, are Groundspeak's "hedges" to cover currency conversion (perhaps both at the point of sale and in paying the money collected for VAT in British pounds) itself subject to VAT since they become part of the cost of the underlying service? I would not want to try to figure out what is actually being charged in each country. And it seems to bear no relationship to the contractual obligation that Groundspeak undertook for many of us when it committed itself not to raise the basic price of membership as long as it was renewed.

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It is my humble opinion that we should maybe tone down the rhetoric and give GS time to develop and provide a proper solution.

 

It's been a week since the announcement and the almost immediate pointing out by several that what they are doing is illegal. Apart from some ill-informed responses during the weekend there has been no communication, no explanation, no apology for untruths.

 

I think that's plenty of time, myself. This is head-in-sand management, and it stinks.

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It's probably academic though, I suspect every geocacher in Europe will be living in Delaware before long B)

 

Well, I'm not a keen worshipper of USA, but is Delaware a nice place to 'live' in?

 

If you like a zero sales tax it's great. And since the product is virtual it's easy to see how people might effect a virtual (and temporary) move to Delaware.

 

It is the "garden state" but I used to think that only Joe Biden and corporations lived there.

 

In any event, that would be simpler than the present system. Unless I have misunderstood Bryan's post, by charging one inclusive rate that applies across the EU or the UK, those who live in Luxembourg (with a lower VAT rate) would be paying more for Groundspeak's services than those in Belgium (a higher VAT rate). On top of that, are Groundspeak's "hedges" to cover currency conversion (perhaps both at the point of sale and in paying the money collected for VAT in British pounds) itself subject to VAT since they become part of the cost of the underlying service? I would not want to try to figure out what is actually being charged in each country. And it seems to bear no relationship to the contractual obligation that Groundspeak undertook for many of us when it committed itself not to raise the basic price of membership as long as it was renewed.

 

Don't know a whole lot about Delaware, I've driven through it but that's about it. From what I saw it looks inoffensive, much like anywhere else when seen from the interstate I guess. Maybe not as pretty as West Virginia but if I wanted to move somewhere on a virtual basis for a day or two it would work as well as anywhere.

 

I've never been to Oregon but suspect it's prettier than Delaware.

 

Groundspeak's commitment to never raise the price was naive at best. Anyone with half a brain knows that freezing a price forever will, sooner or later, end up with customers who cost more than they generate. It's also naive in the extreme to promise to retain a frozen final price regardless of what taxes do.

 

I agree entirely that adding a buffer for themselves in case of currency fluctuation while pretending it's all for our benefit is being less than entirely honest. It seems to me that if they have to pay VAT in pounds they want to receive money in pounds and don't want to take on the currency risk themselves. Which as a business decision is one thing but it's hard to see how suggesting it's for our benefit is anything less than dishonest.

 

But then I suspect this post is just another one that floats into the ether to be ignored by those who make fine-sounding promises to communicate better but still seem to have very little idea how to deal with concepts like "customer loyalty" and "customer satisfaction".

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Groundspeak's commitment to never raise the price was naive at best. Anyone with half a brain knows that freezing a price forever will, sooner or later, end up with customers who cost more than they generate. It's also naive in the extreme to promise to retain a frozen final price regardless of what taxes do.

 

I don't agree with that completely. What about the non premium users? They pay completely nothing and they play the game too. And that's perfectly fine by me. But what if a whole bunch of premiums decide to not renew their membership? Will Groundspeak raise their price for the premiums again then to keep things in balance? So those who willingly decided to (financially) support Groundspeak will be punished again?

If they need to raise the price to keep things running there is something very wrong with their business model because by doing so they are digging their own grave.

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Groundspeak's commitment to never raise the price was naive at best. Anyone with half a brain knows that freezing a price forever will, sooner or later, end up with customers who cost more than they generate. It's also naive in the extreme to promise to retain a frozen final price regardless of what taxes do.

 

I don't agree with that completely. What about the non premium users? They pay completely nothing and they play the game too. And that's perfectly fine by me. But what if a whole bunch of premiums decide to not renew their membership? Will Groundspeak raise their price for the premiums again then to keep things in balance? So those who willingly decided to (financially) support Groundspeak will be punished again?

 

To guarantee to never raise prices is silly.

 

Back in 2003 the $30 for a premium membership would easily buy a couple of pizzas. In 50 years time perhaps $30 will buy a slice of pizza. Do you really think it's anything other than naive for us as customers to assume that despite the price of pizza going up by 15-20 times we should still be paying the same for a premium membership?

 

Basic members are nothing to do with it, the issue is what is charged for premium members and what is offered in exchange. If you add a bunch of new features and take on the associated costs of the servers to handle the load it's not unreasonable to increase prices. I'd be surprised if you can find me very many examples of services where the price never rises at all, ever, come what may. The costs Groundspeak must pay rise - wage bills rarely go down, replacing and updating servers isn't usually a low-budget activity and all the costs of doing business seldom go down. Hence the comment a few people (myself included) have made which is that if Groundspeak need to put the price up they should just go ahead and do it rather than using all sorts of underhand means to raise prices while pretending it's for our benefit.

 

There's a different argument for restricting basic members (maybe let people play as a basic member for three months before requiring at least some form of payment) but that's unrelated to the issue we're discussing here.

 

If they need to raise the price to keep things running there is something very wrong with their business model because by doing so they are digging their own grave.

 

Sure, just like every other company who puts prices up every year goes out of business by doing so?

Edited by team tisri
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GS does not only make revenue from Premier Memberships. They also control and sell every trackable code. I have heard it is $1.50 per trackable code. I can not even begin to speculate on how many trackable codes they sell a year but they are basically pure profit. They also sell their merchandise and advertising on the webstie.

 

This being said, they could possibly keep the PM cost at $30 for probably quite a bit longer but to say forever is unreasonable. Sooner or later they have to raise the price. Sounds to me this statement or policy was made when the hobby was still young and no one knew how big it would get.

 

I for one would not get upset about them raising the price as long as I was properly informed.

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340+ posts on this topic by only a handful of people. I stumbled upon this discussion by accident. Why would G$ worry about the few people who read this board and more specifically this topic. I don't know anyone in Belgium who knows about this discussion (I know at least one of the previous posters is Belgian) but I think most people have no clue about what's happening here. And I believe G$ must come to the same conclusion.

 

If we really want to do something about this, WE should inform the European geocaching community because G$ surely isn't going to. We could start by informing our geocaching buddies and maybe start some kind of petition. Just my 2 cents.

 

btw: if I wouldn't have seen this thread I probably wouldn't even have noticed the price difference. I think most people wouldn't and that is of course what G$ is hoping for.

 

About paying more for my PM: no problem. In the few months I have been geocaching I've become an addict. But the raise should be equal for all members. And if they want us to pay more, we should get something in return like a faster connection. Because lately the website is EXTREMELY slow. I have been a PM from the start so I don't really know what the difference is between basic and premium, but from what I have read here, the differences aren't really worth the price.

Edited by Bart en Myri
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Actually if you look at it, the higher price for Europeans makes a bit of sense. I have cached in the USA and I think 8 different European countries. The caches in Europe are of much higher quality then the USA ones in my opinion. The Euro ones tend to take you to an interesting location where there is something cool to see. The USA ones take you to a lamp post in a Walmart parking lot or nano in a pine tree in the middle of nowhere.

 

So therefore since Euro caches are of higher quality, it costs more to find them. Right?

Edited by Geo Jedimeister
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Actually if you look at it, the higher price for Europeans makes a bit of sense. I have cached in the USA and I think 8 different European contries. The caches in Europe are of much higher quality then the USA ones in my opinion. The Euro ones tend to take you to an interesting locatoin where there is something cool to see. The USA ones take you to a lamppost in a Walmart parking lot or nano in a pine tree in the middle of no where.

 

So therefore since Euro caches are of higher quality, it costs more to find them. Right?

 

No! The supposed better quality of European caches - whatever it is quality - is the result of the work and imagination of European geocachers. Not an effort or investment from Groundspeak. So, why should European geocachers (actually €uro geocachers ) pay more for something that is "better" due to their own effort and work?

 

I, as said several times in this topic, agree that if GrounSpeak needs more money should raise the base price for everyone, equally. And then add VAT/taxes as applicable.

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Actually if you look at it, the higher price for Europeans makes a bit of sense. I have cached in the USA and I think 8 different European countries. The caches in Europe are of much higher quality then the USA ones in my opinion. The Euro ones tend to take you to an interesting location where there is something cool to see. The USA ones take you to a lamp post in a Walmart parking lot or nano in a pine tree in the middle of nowhere.

 

So therefore since Euro caches are of higher quality, it costs more to find them. Right?

 

This does not make sense as you would be punishing the ones that keep the quality high standard. Furthermore they are charging the website services they provide. The caches belong to the cachers/customers. Without them they are nothing.

 

And I have to say, that there is a high number of dumb caches in europe too. And they are becoming more...

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340+ posts on this topic by only a handful of people. I stumbled upon this discussion by accident. Why would G$ worry about the few people who read this board and more specifically this topic. I don't know anyone in Belgium who knows about this discussion (I know at least one of the previous posters is Belgian) but I think most people have no clue about what's happening here. And I believe G$ must come to the same conclusion.

 

If we really want to do something about this, WE should inform the European geocaching community because G$ surely isn't going to. We could start by informing our geocaching buddies and maybe start some kind of petition. Just my 2 cents.

 

btw: if I wouldn't have seen this thread I probably wouldn't even have noticed the price difference. I think most people wouldn't and that is of course what G$ is hoping for.

 

About paying more for my PM: no problem. In the few months I have been geocaching I've become an addict. But the raise should be equal for all members. And if they want us to pay more, we should get something in return like a faster connection. Because lately the website is EXTREMELY slow. I have been a PM from the start so I don't really know what the difference is between basic and premium, but from what I have read here, the differences aren't really worth the price.

 

Be asured that there is forums out here that are frequented more thorougly. Even though there is not that many members discussing in here each of those speak for more than just one.

 

I have been to several events lately and there have been many more upset about this policy that´s happening right now.

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I am actually a bit surprised that some of the more vocal American members are not chiming in on this. If in fact a lot of Europeans begin jumping the PM ship, GS will have a lot less revenue to make improvments to their services. Also, I foresee this same situation occuring on the day they up the price on US PM without communicating it beforehand.

 

Or....maybe that was the plan all along...keep uping the price on the foreigners so the price can remain the same for the Americans.

Edited by Geo Jedimeister
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Or....maybe that was the plan all along...keep uping the price on the foreigners so the price can remain the same for the Americans.

 

This is what I think it is. That is why the subhead of this topic is "Discrimination of Europeans?".

 

I suppose most Americans won´t jump in on this as it might happen they would have to pay 2$ more on their PM too.

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But you know what. GS won't lose all their Euro premier members even if they keep the pricing right as they have it now and NEVER provide an explaination. They will lose some, but most probably don't or won't care and will just continue to pay a higher price. But I think once GS gets it figured out they will provide an explaination.

 

Euro citizens are used to this now since many American companies simply take whatever they sell their product for in USD and make that the Euro price. I saw this today on proclip.com when looking for a phone mount. USD price of the mount is $59.99. Switch to the Germany site and the same thing is 59.99 Euro. I did not check the UK price. Is it fair? Of course not but what are you gonna do? In my case with the phone mount I could have had it shipped to a USA family member and they send it to me in Germany or go to Amazon.com and buy a different product that does the same thing for half the price. I chose the latter.

 

Heck even Europeans did it to themselves back in 2002 when everyone, except the Brits, turned in their currency and started using Euro. At least that is what happened with the Deutschmark. Not immediately but very quickly items that were 25 DM changed raised to 25 Euro.

Edited by Geo Jedimeister
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340+ posts on this topic by only a handful of people. I stumbled upon this discussion by accident. Why would G$ worry about the few people who read this board and more specifically this topic. I don't know anyone in Belgium who knows about this discussion (I know at least one of the previous posters is Belgian) but I think most people have no clue about what's happening here. And I believe G$ must come to the same conclusion.

Most of the people do not notice the new price until their premium membership will expire. This will take months. And when they want to renew their PM, it is not so easy to see clearly that it is now 30 Euro instead of 30 Dollar.

So it could be a good plan from Groundspeak to say nothing and wait until the complaints are forgotten.

Edited by dbox
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But you know what. GS won't lose all their Euro premier members even if they keep the pricing right as they have it now and NEVER provide an explaination. They will lose some, but most probably don't or won't care and will just continue to pay a higher price. But I think once GS gets it figured out they will provide an explaination.

 

Euro citizens are used to this now since many American companies simply take whatever they sell their product for in USD and make that the Euro price. I saw this today on proclip.com when looking for a phone mount. USD price of the mount is $59.99. Switch to the Germany site and the same thing is 59.99 Euro. I did not check the UK price. Is it fair? Of course not but what are you gonna do? In my case with the phone mount I could have had it shipped to a USA family member and they send it to me in Germany or go to Amazon.com and but a different product that does the same thing for half the price.

 

Heck even Europeans did it to themselves back in 2002 when everyone, except the Brits, turned in their currency and started using Euro. At least that is what happened with the Deutschmark. Not immediately but very quickly items that were 25 DM changed raised to 25 Euro.

 

I will just keep telling everyone I meet if they want a PM they should get it to certain Resellers. Those do not charge "VAT" and furthermore they provide a better price. PLUS I am sure the resellers get a certain percentage of it. This way G$ gets even less than before.

 

And I am sure everybody will get their punishment for discriminating others one day or the other. If G$ wants to be such an entity that does not care, so let it be. Sort of a Karma thing.

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340+ posts on this topic by only a handful of people. I stumbled upon this discussion by accident. Why would G$ worry about the few people who read this board and more specifically this topic. I don't know anyone in Belgium who knows about this discussion (I know at least one of the previous posters is Belgian) but I think most people have no clue about what's happening here. And I believe G$ must come to the same conclusion.

 

If we really want to do something about this, WE should inform the European geocaching community because G$ surely isn't going to. We could start by informing our geocaching buddies and maybe start some kind of petition. Just my 2 cents.

 

btw: if I wouldn't have seen this thread I probably wouldn't even have noticed the price difference. I think most people wouldn't and that is of course what G$ is hoping for.

 

About paying more for my PM: no problem. In the few months I have been geocaching I've become an addict. But the raise should be equal for all members. And if they want us to pay more, we should get something in return like a faster connection. Because lately the website is EXTREMELY slow. I have been a PM from the start so I don't really know what the difference is between basic and premium, but from what I have read here, the differences aren't really worth the price.

 

Be asured that there is forums out here that are frequented more thorougly. Even though there is not that many members discussing in here each of those speak for more than just one.

 

I have been to several events lately and there have been many more upset about this policy that´s happening right now.

 

From the Marketing: "A happy customer tells one friend, an unhappy customer tells everybody."

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