Be careful.

[+T.D.M.22]

A recent discussion has prompted me to post this. I ask you when(I know none of you will stop) are doing these guard rail caches, or other caches along the side of a road to be careful. This didn't happen on a busy road, nor at a busy time. It was because one person was not paying attention. This has affected me greatly, and I hope it doesn't happen to you. If you must stop on the highway please make sure you are out of the driving lanes. And even better pull off the pavement. Into the ditch on a secondary highway. The meridian on a large multi lane highway. Park in front of a light standard, or the end of a guard rail that way if it does happen to you, they will hit something else and may not even hit you/your vehicle. You vehicle-after being hit- can injure you as much as the other vehicle. No I hope you feel better, or I feel sorry for you. Nothing negative. If you have a similar story and want to post it feel free to, but This is not a discussion. It is a reminder to be careful, and of what could happen

 

It's night with clear visibility. Full moon. a flat, straight stretch of road for 2km(just over 1 mile) coming back from a family function. Coyote darts out in from of a car and car hits it. Lights are on(red lights in the back) and hazard lights are flashing as the driver gets out to check the car; a little damage to the bumper and the coyote is no more. Driver gets back in the car. Another car passes going the opposite way-it's headlights illuminate the stopped car. A truck coming headlights illuminating the road ahead. Truck hits the stopped car, car spins and stops on the other side of the road after spinning 180. Diver/passengers in truck not injured at all but truck it wrote off. Car has no trunk left, and even compacted the back seat. Driver of car has concussion. Front passenger has deep bruising. Passenger in the back severely injured. Broken right heel that is stuck between the front and back seats. Broken and dislocated left hip, and he is putting all his weight on that leg after he tried to crawl out the window. That passenger had no idea what happened, lost memory of 2 minutes before until 2 minutes after impact, then lost memory of most of the next hour give or take. HE could have very easily have died. He had to wait for the Fire Fighters to come and cut the front door and front seat to get me out. I was taken by ambulance(We didn't have a heli at that time) 30 minutes into town then to the hospital. Xrays. Well that was painful. I was screaming. They could hear me through 2 sets of doors, and a couple walls. I had have my pants cut off to go number one. I had to lay with no pants or underwear for a couple hours until a plane was ready to fly me 200 KM away. I couldn't eat(Didn't want to) I was dehydrated. They gave me an IV but I was going into surgery and couldn't have a drink. Imagine screaming and yelling in pain as loud as you could for an hour. Your mouth would be dry, throat sore. Add some crying to that, sweating. Possibly wetting myself when I was unconscious. You would be so dehydrated and have a dry sore throat. All I wanted was a drink, but I couldn't have one. I had a small damp sponge to suck on. enough water to put out a couple candles. I now have a pin in my hip. The pain has gotten worse over the next 9 years. I got to the point where pain medication does nothing I was taking 2 T3's and 6 OTC painkillers at one time and they did nothing. I have had a couple opportunities for great jobs that I can't take because of my injury. I still get upset thinking about it. I'm still in pain-Can't get out of my car without hurting. I am terrified at driving in the dark. I mean to the point that I can't sleep in a car, I have to look out the drivers window. I hang on to something. There are times where I am shaking, and almost crying. Just because it is night time.

 

Please be careful.

Edited April 16, 2013 by T.D.M.22

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

Very sorry to hear all that. I hate GR caches because of all the icky stuff you can grab on to under there. I rarely go for them unless they are at a dead end, access road or other out of the way place. When you think about it, the guard rails are there to try stoping a car going around a curve.

[+kunarion]

If you must stop on the highway please make sure you are out of the driving lanes. And even better pull off the pavement. Into the ditch on a secondary highway. The meridian on a large multi lane highway. Park in front of a light standard, or the end of a guard rail that way if it does happen to you, they will hit something else and may not even hit you/your vehicle. You vehicle-after being hit- can injure you as much as the other vehicle.

 

There's a local trail of guardrail caches. I can pull the car off just enough so it's barely off the asphalt, and against the guardrail, so I open a door into the street. Traffic's light on that road, but everyone's well over the speed limit. My full attention was on the approaching cars, so I really couldn't get into the cache hunt. I looked for 3 or 4 of those guardrail caches, then left. I may be rather safe on the other side of the guardrail, but my car isn't. Plus, getting in and out of the car requires planning, running, and timing. I have zero interest in trying any of those caches again. It just plain did not feel safe.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Sorry to hear what happened to you.

 

I've only found 2 guardrail caches. I was nervous about the traffic at both of them. Fortunately we don't have many of those here.

[+The A-Team]

I've only found 2 guardrail caches. I was nervous about the traffic at both of them. Fortunately we don't have many of those here.

I was just about to say the same thing. Guardrails just aren't very common around here, so there luckily can't be many caches on them.

 

Remember, guardrails by their very nature are placed in dangerous areas. If you're considering hiding a cache on one, think of a better spot. The location of the guardrail probably isn't all that notable anyway, so why bring cachers there?

[+BlueDeuce]

You seem like someone I would invite to dinner. And I haven't even made that offer to the A-Team.

[+stijnhommes]

If you can't pull off the road and park your car safely, then placing a cache there seems to me to be a poor choice of location.

[+The_Incredibles_]

If you can't pull off the road and park your car safely, then placing a cache there seems to me to be a poor choice of location.

 

Interesting that you would say this. I don't think reviewers here will publish a cache next to a highway unless there's a proper pull-out area.

[+Don_J]

If I can't park legally and well off the road, with no blind spots, I just keep on driving. If I'm familiar with the area and I know that it's a bad spot, I'll just ignore it as soon as it's published. I've spent a good portion of my life as a professional driver so I am well aware of the hazards out there. I am constantly amazed at some of the spots that others think are okay for a cache and even more amazed at how many will disregard common sense in order to find them. I have found many guardrail caches where I have felt completely safe as well as passed on just as many because it simply didn't make sense.

[+The_Incredibles_]

You seem like someone I would invite to dinner. And I haven't even made that offer to the A-Team.

 

[+T.D.M.22]

If you can't pull off the road and park your car safely, then placing a cache there seems to me to be a poor choice of location.

 

Interesting that you would say this. I don't think reviewers here will publish a cache next to a highway unless there's a proper pull-out area.

 

My reviewer refused to publish a cache near a highway. Cache was in a safe place and there was safe parking off he highway. His reasoning was that not everyone would park where I said to-had nothing to do with the cache. Actually he denied a couple caches because of that.

[+cheech gang]

If you can't pull off the road and park your car safely, then placing a cache there seems to me to be a poor choice of location.

 

Interesting that you would say this. I don't think reviewers here will publish a cache next to a highway unless there's a proper pull-out area.

 

My reviewer refused to publish a cache near a highway. Cache was in a safe place and there was safe parking off he highway. His reasoning was that not everyone would park where I said to-had nothing to do with the cache. Actually he denied a couple caches because of that.

 

Haven't we been told here ad infinitum that caches are NOT reviewed for safety?

[+Mudfrog]

Hmmm, see below.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Mudfrog

[+Mudfrog]

Not sure what happened here, a burp with the forums i guess. See below

Edited April 16, 2013 by Mudfrog

[+Mudfrog]

To keep from going off topic in the other thread, i didn't say anything. But i sure had an opinion when i read the part about these caches being on a four lane highway. No, i don't know the area or how the traffic really is but going with the facts, that just seems a bad place to cache, especially with kids. It doesn't matter if the traffic is light or not, one mistake by you, your kids, grandkids, or an inattentive driver, can change a life (lives) forever...

 

T.D.M.22, so sorry to hear your story. I hope that things improve in the near future. What's bad is that you didn't purposely put yourself into that situation in the first place. It's just hard to believe that there are some out there who do.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Mudfrog

[+Viajero Perdido]

Occasionally I've seen reviewers archive a cache that was clearly stupid, so nothing's absolute.

 

BTW, sometimes even police cars get rear-ended when they're stopped on the side of the highway, at night, with all their lights flashing. Drunks focus on the lights and drive right into them.

 

When it comes to our game, there's a lesson in there somewhere.

[+Snoogans]

Please be careful.

 

I wish Groundspeak would embrace that message a little bit more supportively rather than standing behind their disclaimer.

 

I get the legal position they are in, but they are getting bad advice.

 

One only needs to look through the topics to see there is an underlying theme of safety concerns that should be at least addressed upfront with adequate space for the community to concentrate on these particular concerns & issues.

 

It takes a few key strokes to create a safety forum.

 

It takes a few more to encourage event hosts to spend 3 to 5 minutes during an event to address geocaching safety for the benefit of all who attend.

 

It takes a few more to add a periodic/semi-regular safety message to Groundspeak's various media without doing it to death.

 

For instance...Ask yourself this... How many cachers do you know that have had an eye injury or a near miss with branches/objects in their eyes while caching? Ask the crowd at your next event and see what happens.

 

Now, how many of those future injuries and near misses could be prevented if awareness was raised just to add a pair of safety glasses to your caching supplies and to remember to use them when the need arises?

 

We can do this ourselves, but endorsement by the Lilly Pad would expedite the process.

 

Whoa. How'd that soapbox get under me? /steps off

[+lamoracke]

Have evolved from the point I started caching where I might try every cache, but now if its on a guard rail next to a anywhere close to possibly busy road, I might just skip it unless I can access the GR from a safe spot. Just not worth it. Many guard rail caches are just fine, so I do not want lump them all into not safe, but some of them, not so much.

 

No single cache is worth getting into a driver's way.

[+J Grouchy]

Can't say I've even SEEN a GR cache next to a busy road. Closest I've seen is one at an exit from a parking structure. Normally the GR caches I've found have been next to parking lots that are adjacent to retaining walls or steep slopes, therefore not really in a traffic 'danger zone'. I'm surprised anyone would put one along a stretch of roadway where there is no place to stop (i.e., scenic overlook, rest area, etc.).

[+Off Grid]

A recent discussion has prompted me to post this. I ask you when(I know none of you will stop) are doing these guard rail caches, or other caches along the side of a road to be careful. This didn't happen on a busy road, nor at a busy time. It was because one person was not paying attention. This has affected me greatly, and I hope it doesn't happen to you. If you must stop on the highway please make sure you are out of the driving lanes. And even better pull off the pavement. Into the ditch on a secondary highway. The meridian on a large multi lane highway. Park in front of a light standard, or the end of a guard rail that way if it does happen to you, they will hit something else and may not even hit you/your vehicle. You vehicle-after being hit- can injure you as much as the other vehicle. No I hope you feel better, or I feel sorry for you. Nothing negative. If you have a similar story and want to post it feel free to, but This is not a discussion. It is a reminder to be careful, and of what could happen

 

It's night with clear visibility. Full moon. a flat, straight stretch of road for 2km(just over 1 mile) coming back from a family function. Coyote darts out in from of a car and car hits it. Lights are on(red lights in the back) and hazard lights are flashing as the driver gets out to check the car; a little damage to the bumper and the coyote is no more. Driver gets back in the car. Another car passes going the opposite way-it's headlights illuminate the stopped car. A truck coming headlights illuminating the road ahead. Truck hits the stopped car, car spins and stops on the other side of the road after spinning 180. Diver/passengers in truck not injured at all but truck it wrote off. Car has no trunk left, and even compacted the back seat. Driver of car has concussion. Front passenger has deep bruising. Passenger in the back severely injured. Broken right heel that is stuck between the front and back seats. Broken and dislocated left hip, and he is putting all his weight on that leg after he tried to crawl out the window. That passenger had no idea what happened, lost memory of 2 minutes before until 2 minutes after impact, then lost memory of most of the next hour give or take. HE could have very easily have died. He had to wait for the Fire Fighters to come and cut the front door and front seat to get me out. I was taken by ambulance(We didn't have a heli at that time) 30 minutes into town then to the hospital. Xrays. Well that was painful. I was screaming. They could hear me through 2 sets of doors, and a couple walls. I had have my pants cut off to go number one. I had to lay with no pants or underwear for a couple hours until a plane was ready to fly me 200 KM away. I couldn't eat(Didn't want to) I was dehydrated. They gave me an IV but I was going into surgery and couldn't have a drink. Imagine screaming and yelling in pain as loud as you could for an hour. Your mouth would be dry, throat sore. Add some crying to that, sweating. Possibly wetting myself when I was unconscious. You would be so dehydrated and have a dry sore throat. All I wanted was a drink, but I couldn't have one. I had a small damp sponge to suck on. enough water to put out a couple candles. I now have a pin in my hip. The pain has gotten worse over the next 9 years. I got to the point where pain medication does nothing I was taking 2 T3's and 6 OTC painkillers at one time and they did nothing. I have had a couple opportunities for great jobs that I can't take because of my injury. I still get upset thinking about it. I'm still in pain-Can't get out of my car without hurting. I am terrified at driving in the dark. I mean to the point that I can't sleep in a car, I have to look out the drivers window. I hang on to something. There are times where I am shaking, and almost crying. Just because it is night time.

 

Please be careful.

it goes by if you think its dangerous why put it there when me and my dad place a cache we stand there for a second and pretend to act dumb and see if we would still place it there.

[+ras_oscar]

My brother was coming back from a " late night function" in his teen years. Old winter beater car, a ford station wagon. Divided highway. Got a flat tire. Pulled on to the shoulder, completely off the road. The spare was already flat. Decided to curl up in the back. A couple hours later a trooper cruises by and raps on the window. "You can't sleep here" takes him to the station. He calls home, and little brother and father go pick him up. Morning, another call from the same trooper. Your car has been totalled. Later that night, a weary driver saw the reflected tail lights and thought that was the travel lane. The rear comnpartment was completely crushed from the back of the back seat to the tailgatge. Lesson learned. This has nothing to do witjh geocaching and everything to do with personal safety.

[+BlackRose67]

One of the first caches I put out was a GRC. At the time, I thought they were great.

 

I soon changed my mind on that and when the cache went missing, I moved it across the road into the trees.

 

I still do look for GRCs on occasion, but I make sure I am well off the road and only look for them from behind the barrier.

 

I regularly check the traffic flow and will stop and wait for large groups of vehicles to pass before resuming the search.

Edited April 16, 2013 by BlackRose67

[+The_Incredibles_]

If you can't pull off the road and park your car safely, then placing a cache there seems to me to be a poor choice of location.

 

Interesting that you would say this. I don't think reviewers here will publish a cache next to a highway unless there's a proper pull-out area.

 

My reviewer refused to publish a cache near a highway. Cache was in a safe place and there was safe parking off he highway. His reasoning was that not everyone would park where I said to-had nothing to do with the cache. Actually he denied a couple caches because of that.

 

Haven't we been told here ad infinitum that caches are NOT reviewed for safety?

 

In our area, it's more about our reviewers complying with the wishes of our local Ministry of Transportation, rather than with reviewers themselves making judgements about safety.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Can't say I've even SEEN a GR cache next to a busy road. Closest I've seen is one at an exit from a parking structure. Normally the GR caches I've found have been next to parking lots that are adjacent to retaining walls or steep slopes, therefore not really in a traffic 'danger zone'. I'm surprised anyone would put one along a stretch of roadway where there is no place to stop (i.e., scenic overlook, rest area, etc.).

 

I've found a few caches that were on guard rails and don't recall feeling particularly unsafe on any of them. However, there were only a couple of them that were actually memorable. One was on a guard rail in the parking lot next to doubleday field in Cooperstown, NY and the other was a regular size container on a guard rail that at a large pull off area with an amazing view. Neither was unsafe by any definition but unlike most guard rail caches both were at locations that were actually worth visiting.

[+Castle Mischief]

If you don't feel safe hunting a cache then you don't have to hunt the cache.

 

Caches are placed in the real world were real dangers are present all around them. How many venomous snakes and other wild animals have been encountered while caching? How many cachers have become lost in the woods? How many cachers have been killed or injured while climbing to a cache?

 

So yeah, be careful- at every cache.

[+Mudfrog]

If you don't feel safe hunting a cache then you don't have to hunt the cache.

 

Caches are placed in the real world were real dangers are present all around them. How many venomous snakes and other wild animals have been encountered while caching? How many cachers have become lost in the woods? How many cachers have been killed or injured while climbing to a cache?

 

So yeah, be careful- at every cache.

 

For the most part, i go along with the bolded. But i can also see where certain cache placements can put others, not involved with geocaching, in potential danger. I admit that most guardrail caches i've been to have been in safe areas but i have run across a few that were placed next to busy highways, including interstates. I've seen too many videos where, for some reason, the parked vehicle got sideswiped or rear ended.

 

A vehicle stopped on the side of these roads will get noticed by other drivers which adds yet another thing for them to take into account on their drive. For instance, they may see the parked vehicle and then try to move over to the left lane. This goes well most of the time but there's no doubt that there have been accidents caused when that driver didn't see the other driver in that left lane.

 

This is just one example of many things that can go wrong. It may be fine for me to make a personal decision to go after a potentially dangerous cache but i do need to think about how my actions might affect others.

[+nthacker66]

Can't say I've even SEEN a GR cache next to a busy road. Closest I've seen is one at an exit from a parking structure. Normally the GR caches I've found have been next to parking lots that are adjacent to retaining walls or steep slopes, therefore not really in a traffic 'danger zone'. I'm surprised anyone would put one along a stretch of roadway where there is no place to stop (i.e., scenic overlook, rest area, etc.).

 

GR caches are just that, on GR's. And most GR are next to busy places, that is whay a GR is there in the first place. Perhaps you don't live near too many backroads like most. Here in NC, we have a few "power trails' that are GRC's and they scare the hell out of me. Very little shoulder to pull off on and it is just a matter of time before someone gets killed doing it. And when that happens, whether here or anywhere else these stupid PT GRC's are, it will expose the game in such a negative light, every state will have to review this and we will lose a large swatch of caching real estate. They may even look into state parks, gameland trails, etc. and so on. Why risk it for, IMO, lame hides just for smileys?

[+dprovan]

And most GR are next to busy places, that is whay a GR is there in the first place.

Actually, I was just thinking that in my experience, most guardrail caches are on what I'd call incidental guardrails: guardrails that are out of the way where there's very little chance of meeting a car. In some case, the whole point of the cache is that the guardrail serves no useful purpose, but typically they are on guardrails intended to keep a slow moving car -- like in a parking lot or at the end of a dead end street -- from going somewhere very bad.

 

About the worst I've seen are on 50 mph roads with very little traffic. In those cases, a cacher's much more likely to get clobbered because they didn't look for the unexpected car -- something that would be a problem no matter how the cache was hidden -- than because that rare car came through the guardrail they were searching.

 

So I'd say talking about guardrail caches in this context is a mistake. It's the highway that's dangerous, and whether or not the cache is hidden in a guardrail makes very little difference to that, in my opinion.

[+T.D.M.22]

And most GR are next to busy places, that is whay a GR is there in the first place.

Actually, I was just thinking that in my experience, most guardrail caches are on what I'd call incidental guardrails: guardrails that are out of the way where there's very little chance of meeting a car. In some case, the whole point of the cache is that the guardrail serves no useful purpose, but typically they are on guardrails intended to keep a slow moving car -- like in a parking lot or at the end of a dead end street -- from going somewhere very bad.

 

About the worst I've seen are on 50 mph roads with very little traffic. In those cases, a cacher's much more likely to get clobbered because they didn't look for the unexpected car -- something that would be a problem no matter how the cache was hidden -- than because that rare car came through the guardrail they were searching.

 

So I'd say talking about guardrail caches in this context is a mistake. It's the highway that's dangerous, and whether or not the cache is hidden in a guardrail makes very little difference to that, in my opinion.

 

Talking about Guard rail caches is off topic, actually talking about caches is as well-its about being safe....And the point of this topic is for people like you. Go back and read the very first post. There was no guard rail. There was no real ditch, one could go drive right into the farmers field for a couple miles. There was very little traffic-In fact the EMT's and firetrucks and police more than tripled the traffic on that road.

 

This topic is not a discussion on if guard rail caches are safe or not.

 

This is proof that bad things CAN happen, and a request for you and your vehicle to not be on the road-to be in a safe place.

[+6NoisyHikers]

 

For instance...Ask yourself this... How many cachers do you know that have had an eye injury or a near miss with branches/objects in their eyes while caching? Ask the crowd at your next event and see what happens.

 

 

I did! I did!

[+dprovan]

And most GR are next to busy places, that is whay a GR is there in the first place.

So I'd say talking about guardrail caches in this context is a mistake.

Talking about Guard rail caches is off topic...

Yes, precisely my point.

[4wheelin_fool]

Often the most danger occurs in the least expected places. An area judged as "safe" is when most people drop their guard and when trouble sets in.

 

I rolled a '70 Maverick at 65 mph several times and exited the car without any injuries. A few years later I was riding a tiny 200cc motorcycle at 25 mph on a railroad bed and hit a deer which resulted in massive road rash and several stitches. Always be aware of the possibilities of what could occur.

[+cerberus1]

Often the most danger occurs in the least expected places. An area judged as "safe" is when most people drop their guard and when trouble sets in.

Yep, seems to be always when you think you're safe.

 

I was changing a flat tire (signals on) on a shoulder of a local highway.

Got back in the car, looked in the rear view to see a tractor trailer rig heading straight at me.

Threw myself flat on the seats.

The trucker veered over (cigarette fell in lap) and completely crushed the car with me in it.

I was a seat sandwich. Ended up with just a cut in the thigh.

 

CJ did a face plant on a rails to trails once.

Her toe caught the top of probably the only rail spike still left in eight miles.

I still rib her about it, though not funny at the time.