Rattlesnake at our cache location

[+alinraz]

We hid our first cache a little over a month ago, beneath some rocks in a hilly area near our house. We hike there all the time and thought we'd found the perfect place. We checked on our cache this weekend and had a very unpleasant surprise- there was a rattlesnake living amongst the rocks where we'd just retrieved our cache. We left the cache out in the open rather than put it back under the rocks, then posted a warning on the cache page. Rattlesnakes are a reality around here, but this is the first time in a decade of hiking that we've seen/heard one. We've found caches in similar locations dozens of times. Obviously, we don't want to put anyone at risk. What do we do now?!

Edited April 9, 2013 by alinraz

[+onthehuntin702]

Well, if rattlesnakes are common the area as a whole then people should expect to see them when they go out in that area. If the cache is placed on this particular snake's den, then maybe move it 100 feet in either direction.

 

This reminds me of a cache that I went to grab a little while ago and just as I put my hand in the hole I saw the black widow sitting right in the middle. Literally guarding the cache. I would have been bitten for sure if I didn't see her. I posted a note on the cache page about it, people have found the cache since though so hey, maybe she moved on or expired?

[+Semper Questio]

That is a common threat here as well, along with scorpions and lots of other things. You can pull your cache, leave it as is, or put a warning on the listing along with the snake attribute. Whatever you feel is the right thing to do. Any of those choices are equally valid. If it were mine, I think I would put a note in the description on the listing that I saw one near the cache along with the date it was seen. I might post a note log as well for anyone who may be watching the cache.

[+dprovan]

Last week I was caching in Arizona and the cache I was looking for was named "Critter Cache". For a second I thought what I saw at GZ was a fake snake as camo, but "just to be sure" I poked it (from around the corner) and discovered it was the real deal. I never did find the cache, but I found the log by itself, so I figure the snake ate whatever critter the log was hidden in.

[+T.D.M.22]

I also live in an area where rattlers are common. A warning on the cache page is good if one has been spotted, but people should also know the possible dangerous plants and animals of where they live. Some people might not know it's a rattler(if you surprise them they can strike without a warning rattle)-as rattlers do go into the city people should be aware of them. This-and dprovan's story are really good reason to know what may be in your area and always poke with a stick before you poke with your hands.

 

I think this is where the saying walk tall and carry a big stick comes from

[Space*Cadet]

We have encountered two rattlesnakes already this year. We had a early and very warm start to spring so the snakes are out early. We have learned that we just have to be aware of our surroundings and to have a long stick handy before reaching into areas that are obstructed by brush or rocks.

[+Heli Leo]

This is why I always have a walking stick along. They are great for poking and prodding around rocks and logs. With a little ingenuity and some duct tape they can be used to grab out of reach caches and return them.

[+cerberus1]

I'd move the hide to a suitable spot nearby, but not near the den.

I wouldn't leave it there knowing that others may get hurt in the attempt, unlike a tree or climbing hide where cachers are aware of the danger and bring equipment to get it.

 

With so many saying they use GSAK and rarely read cache pages anymore, that's really the only safe thing to do.

[GPS-Hermit]

I highly highly highly recommend to allow the snake some room and move that cache away from there. A warning isn't good enough - someone could get in serious trouble and if bitten could die or take a year to recover from the bite. It is one thing to warn about what MIGHT happen but, in this case, you know about it. The snake should get top priority here since this is HIS home. Please move the cache before it is killed by a cacher or it bites a cacher. This is not a case of bad luck for a victim or the snake. Also please do not assume one snake lives there. They hiberate together and also multiple mates come to visit the female in mating season which is several months long.

Rattlesnake bites are extremely serious and should be taken very seriously. This is like putting a micro in a rat trap. I believe we have a responsibility to hide safe caches and also not invade the homes of wildlife. Children are not as tuned to avoid hazzards as adults and are far more likelt to perished from a snake bite. Since you know the snake lives there Please move the cache and allow the snake a peaceful home and the cacher a great day they thought they would have when they came out.

Edited April 10, 2013 by GPS-Hermit

[+alinraz]

Thank you for all the advice. At this point, the cache is right where we dropped it when the snake rattled. It is visible and out in the open, not hidden at all. Obviously, safety is a major concern for us, especially since we designed this as a very child-friendly cache. I completely agree that the snake has first rights to the location and that we don't want to put anyone (including ourselves!) at risk.

[+CanadianRockies]

I'd move the hide to a suitable spot nearby, but not near the den.

I wouldn't leave it there knowing that others may get hurt in the attempt, unlike a tree or climbing hide where cachers are aware of the danger and bring equipment to get it.

 

With so many saying they use GSAK and rarely read cache pages anymore, that's really the only safe thing to do.

+1

[4wheelin_fool]

Many won't read the page, and if you move it there is still a considerable risk. I would edit the title and add "- SEE WARNING" or something similar to it.

[+The_Incredibles_]

So thankful we don't have that "issue" here.

 

I would move the cache and also post a warning on the cache page. Not much else you can be expected to do. People caching in this area should already know to watch for snakes.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Thank you for all the advice. At this point, the cache is right where we dropped it when the snake rattled. It is visible and out in the open, not hidden at all. Obviously, safety is a major concern for us, especially since we designed this as a very child-friendly cache. I completely agree that the snake has first rights to the location and that we don't want to put anyone (including ourselves!) at risk.

 

One thing to consider, if it will work for the area is just to leave the cache out in the open.

[+DragonsWest]

Rattlesnakes are nearly everywhere in California. It wasn't until I got into Geocaching I began to encounter them frequently. Sometimes the darn things are just laying there, sunning themselves, on the trail. When I'm hiking I'm usually watching the trail, only looking up or to the side when at a stop. This is why.

 

Rockpile, woodpile and deep grass hides are in their domain, where they live and hunt. It's not their fault for anything, we cachers sometimes forget we are leaving our homes to visit their homes, even it we don't often see them, they are there.

 

Rattlesnakes may exhibit the following behaviour:

 

Totally ignore you. Yes, they know well you are there and are keeping tabs on you, but they seem to assume they know they are bad and you should know it too and leave them be.

 

Assume a defensive posture. Coil up, hiss, rattle, poised to strike if you are fool enough to get too close. They probably don't want to, but are looking out for Number 1 and you are somewhere further down the totem pole.

 

Attack. There's a green species I have heard of in Arizona which will actively pursue you. It doesn't want you anywhere near where it lives and hunts and if it can deliver a message through pain and suffering, it will. Dame Nature seems to have instructed it in no uncertain terms, to deliver this message at nearly every opportunity, to ensure its survival and to educate those who survive to be wary.

 

I find them fascinating, but deserving of utmost respect. We cannot afford to be careless around them, which ever behaviour the individual snake may choose to adopt.

 

This junior Diamondback was sunning itself, unconcerned about two approaching hikers. It was a little over a foot in length.

Edited April 10, 2013 by DragonsWest

[+the4dirtydogs]

I'd move the hide to a suitable spot nearby, but not near the den.

I wouldn't leave it there knowing that others may get hurt in the attempt, unlike a tree or climbing hide where cachers are aware of the danger and bring equipment to get it.

 

With so many saying they use GSAK and rarely read cache pages anymore, that's really the only safe thing to do.

I really don't think moving the hide will do anything. Snakes travel and find different areas to nest. The only safe thing you can do is pay ATTENTION to where you are going and where you place your hands. Never stick your hand where you can't see or you will learn the hard way and hope it's not a rattlesnake that bites you.

 

I've ran into MANY rattlesnakes on the trail. 3 in one day was enough to call our hike quits one time. I'm just thankful that most of the time the snake will rattle to let you know they are there. Mojave Greens are the bad boy of this species, they will come after you. So be safe out there and keep your eyes on the trail and not your GPSr.

[+wimseyguy]

Found this handy reference site with good pics. Never heard of the Mojave Green, but we were very careful when we were out there a few years back for the Rt 66 trail.

I cannot imagine anything more painful than the copperhead bite I got a few years back, so do be careful out there, but don't let it stop you from having fun.

 

To the OP, unless you are positive that the snake has actually nested at your cache location I don't think that moving it will help much. They tend to move around quite a bit so that they can be in position to ambush some lunchmeat. But posting a warning on the cache page that a rattler has been spotted in the immediate vicinity of the cache would be a good thing.

[+Foothills Drifter]

Howdy......

Please remember...

You are in THEIR HOMELAND...

They will fight to protect it

just as you would fight to protect yours.

 

Vern / Foothills Drifter...

[+Don_J]

I'd move the hide to a suitable spot nearby, but not near the den.

I wouldn't leave it there knowing that others may get hurt in the attempt, unlike a tree or climbing hide where cachers are aware of the danger and bring equipment to get it.

 

With so many saying they use GSAK and rarely read cache pages anymore, that's really the only safe thing to do.

I really don't think moving the hide will do anything. Snakes travel and find different areas to nest. The only safe thing you can do is pay ATTENTION to where you are going and where you place your hands. Never stick your hand where you can't see or you will learn the hard way and hope it's not a rattlesnake that bites you.

 

I've ran into MANY rattlesnakes on the trail. 3 in one day was enough to call our hike quits one time. I'm just thankful that most of the time the snake will rattle to let you know they are there. Mojave Greens are the bad boy of this species, they will come after you. So be safe out there and keep your eyes on the trail and not your GPSr.

 

This. I have found a rattlesnake wrapped around a lock n' lock. Persuaded him to move far enough away so I could pull the cache out with my hiking stick and then relocated the cache about 50' away and contacted the owner. Three days later, another cacher found the same (?) snake wrapped around the container at the new location.

 

Rattlesnakes are simply a part of our local landscape. If you are looking for caches in our local mountains and are not snake aware then you probably shouldn't be up there. I've seen caches that have had a 100 visits and only one snake encounter. Just because a snake is there one day doesn't mean that it will be there the next, and just because a 100 cachers have found a cache without issue doesn't mean that it's not being guarded by a snake when you visit. As I see it, the entire mountain is it's home. If you are looking for caches, you need to be aware of that regardless of what the cache description says.

[+Corfman Clan]

I've had that happen to me. I just shooed the rattler away, replaced the cache, and wrote an Owner Maintenance note on the cache page. From your description of the cache location, I suspect it's not very likely the snake is nesting there. As others have said, snakes move around a lot.

[+Manville Possum]

We hid our first cache a little over a month ago, beneath some rocks in a hilly area near our house. We hike there all the time and thought we'd found the perfect place. We checked on our cache this weekend and had a very unpleasant surprise- there was a rattlesnake living amongst the rocks where we'd just retrieved our cache. We left the cache out in the open rather than put it back under the rocks, then posted a warning on the cache page. Rattlesnakes are a reality around here, but this is the first time in a decade of hiking that we've seen/heard one. We've found caches in similar locations dozens of times. Obviously, we don't want to put anyone at risk. What do we do now?!

I see it has an attribute that looks like a snake. What's the purpose of that?

[+Mudfrog]

I'd move the hide to a suitable spot nearby, but not near the den.

I wouldn't leave it there knowing that others may get hurt in the attempt, unlike a tree or climbing hide where cachers are aware of the danger and bring equipment to get it.

 

With so many saying they use GSAK and rarely read cache pages anymore, that's really the only safe thing to do.

I really don't think moving the hide will do anything. Snakes travel and find different areas to nest. The only safe thing you can do is pay ATTENTION to where you are going and where you place your hands. Never stick your hand where you can't see or you will learn the hard way and hope it's not a rattlesnake that bites you.

 

I've ran into MANY rattlesnakes on the trail. 3 in one day was enough to call our hike quits one time. I'm just thankful that most of the time the snake will rattle to let you know they are there. Mojave Greens are the bad boy of this species, they will come after you. So be safe out there and keep your eyes on the trail and not your GPSr.

 

Agreed,, snakes aren't gonna stay in one place. You can also bet that this isn't the only snake out there. The cache can be moved to a different type of area all together but it's probably a waste of time if the intention is to keep it placed in a similarly rocky area.

 

Myself, i would place a warning near the top of the cache description and add the "dangerous animals" attribute to the page.

[+captnemo]

Where I live rattlesnakes are a way of life. Mostly Side Winders and some Mojave Greens, which is listed as the most vemmonist snake in the US.

 

All of my hides have a line that says to watch where you stick your hands and feet as snakes and other things that like to bit or stick you are waiting for you. I put that warning after finding a sidewinder under one of my hides. After removing the snake I checked back and found no more snakes at the cache. I moved the cache latter due to Muggles as others have said snakes move around.

[+Chilli Pipers]

Makes me glad to live (and cache) in the UK. No dangerous animals here at all, worst I have ever reached out and grabbed was a toad (and that wasnt poisonous)

[+wyrdsister]

In Australia we have Drop Bears, Bunyips and tourists the latter is the worst. We also have some of the deadliest snakes in the world, we just choose the time of year and cache very carefully in scrubby bush places. Still beats the Bears in Canad I could never work out the Bear bell thing - are you trying to tell them where you are to increase the danger?

[+Roman!]

In Australia we have Drop Bears, Bunyips and tourists the latter is the worst. We also have some of the deadliest snakes in the world, we just choose the time of year and cache very carefully in scrubby bush places. Still beats the Bears in Canad I could never work out the Bear bell thing - are you trying to tell them where you are to increase the danger?

 

The bear bell lets bears know you are there so you don't surprise them, when I hike alone I carry one as well as bear spray. In 2 years of hiking I have come across 3 bears, closest maybe 300 yards down the trail and they all ran off.

 

When I hike with friends I wear running shoes because I learnt one thing you don't need to and in most cases can't out run the bear, you just need to out run your friends.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Roman!

[+The_Incredibles_]

I could never work out the Bear bell thing - are you trying to tell them where you are to increase the danger?

 

Bear bells are meant for black bears. They are afraid of humans and the bell will warn them you're coming so they can get away and not be startled when you come around a corner.

 

Grizzly bears are entirely different. They want to eat you. So yes, wearing a bear bell would be silly if grizzlies are around.

 

More info here:

 

Edited May 28, 2013 by The_Incredibles_

[+wyrdsister]

I think ill stick to deadly snakes, I can outrun them. The whole bear thing brings a frightening new level for caching, I worked in Canada for a year but was very cautious on where we went. I wasn't a cacher back then and im not sure I would have branched out of the CBD much. Do you have a rating for bears?

[+The_Incredibles_]

I think ill stick to deadly snakes, I can outrun them. The whole bear thing brings a frightening new level for caching, I worked in Canada for a year but was very cautious on where we went. I wasn't a cacher back then and im not sure I would have branched out of the CBD much. Do you have a rating for bears?

 

I don't think you need to be *that* afraid of a bear attack. First of all, it's rare you're going to actually encounter a bear. I grew up in a remote area and only saw bears twice and both times they weren't at all interested in me. I knew someone who lived for years in the Yukon and there were grizzlies *everywhere*. He carried a gun all the time, but the grizzlies pretty much ignored him, except for one time he startled a mom and cub and she ran at him. He figured she was bluffing, but bear sprayed her just in case.

 

Even if you do encounter a bear, it's highly likely to be a black bear, not a grizzly and will either be scared of you and run away or simply ignore you. The last time someone in my family came across a bear, it was busy stuffing it's face with berries while they took photos. Of course, it's always recommended to carry bear spray, just in case, but you're much much more likely to be involved in a traffic accident than a bear attack. My sister worked with someone who got attacked by a bear, but incidents like that are rare and the bear, in that case, had learned to associate people with food (dumb campers not using bear stashes like they were supposed to).