England, Scotland and Wales are separate countries

[+Ruddles1325 0]

Flanders and Wallonia are regions ( and so us Brussels for that matter). There is only one king of the Belgians. While each region has its own government (more or less) there is also a federal government.

[+ExtremeNorthWales 2]

you can surely manage to split the UK into England, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland?

My sentiments exactly. I'd like to see this happen.

[+geodarts 60]

Just curious, but I'm wondering what flag is flown for athletes from Scotland, Wales, England during the Olympics? Or are they one big happy team?

The athletes from those countries compete as Team Great Britain. The flag flown is the Union Jack.

 

They are separate for the World Cup of Darts, however. Not to mention certain other sports.

[+ExtremeNorthWales 2]

They are separate for the World Cup of Darts, however. Not to mention certain other sports.

For example; football, cricket and rugby. So why can't this be applied to geocaching?

[+K13 724]

As Geocaching is set to become the 'most favored sport' of the New World Order derived from the United Nations, the divisions of the world listed in the UN are the only ones that matter. The Illuminati have decreed it to be this way.

 

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[BRTango 0]

As Geocaching is set to become the 'most favored sport' of the New World Order derived from the United Nations, the divisions of the world listed in the UN are the only ones that matter. The Illuminati have decreed it to be this way.

 

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

 

The United Nations is the only thing that matters. No geopolitical borders other than the UN matter. Find one cache in a UN country and your entire map goes blue!!!

[+fbingha 47]

Edited April 26, 2013 by fbingha

[+tozainamboku 5]

They are separate for the World Cup of Darts, however. Not to mention certain other sports.

For example; football, cricket and rugby. So why can't this be applied to geocaching?

Darts, football (soccer to us Americans), cricket, and rugby all began as organized sports in England. As these sports developed, governing bodies formed first in England, followed by the other parts of the UK. For example the earliest governing body for football was the English Football Association. In fact our name, soccer, is a shortened form of Association Football. When truly international associations formed for these sports, even though they may have a French name, the English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish associations were given full memebership.

 

Perhaps Letterboxing, which was also started in England, can recognize England, Scotland, and Wales as separate countries.

 

Groundspeak has split up the world into various regions that roughly correspond to sovereign states but which has many exceptions - particualarly for overseas terrritories. Since one use of the country field in the geocaching data is to locate caches, it makes sense to divide some overseas regions from the main territory. The states/province/region provides additional breakdown, so in the case of the United States, Hawaii can be counted as in the US since it a separate state. As it stands now, Geocaching recoginizes 14 regions in the United Kindom: 2 in Scotland, 2 in Wales, and the other 10 in England. Northern Ireland, though part of the UK, has its caches listed under the Ulster region of Ireland. Other Crown Dependencies in the British Isles as well as overseas are listed as separate countries.

 

The intent of the country list is not to promote nationalistic pride, though it may have that effect as people will claim that Geocaching is more popular in country A than country B. And despite souvenirs, challenge caches, maps and statistics, it should not matter what boundaries Groundspeak chooses to use.

 

While it may not be hard to imagine Lennon's vision, we are still a long way from it. Whatever someone decides to count as separate country or not, someone else is bound to get their knickers in a twist.

[+sTeamTraen 5]

While it may not be hard to imagine Lennon's vision, we are still a long way from it. Whatever someone decides to count as separate country or not, someone else is bound to get their knickers in a twist.

Geocaching attracts a lot of people to whom details are important. Unfortunately, Groundspeak's rather pragmatic approach to countries (I could go on for hours about the possible interpretations of the various French overseas territories) does not perfectly solve all possible issues, such as the Ireland problem (incidentally, someone noted that FIFA recognises Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland for soccer, but all Ireland competes as one at Rugby Union), the Palestine problem, the question of whether Kosovo is a state or a rebel province of Serbia, or just stuff like the name of the country that the US calls Macedonia and others call "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (including the quote marks, and alphabetised under "T" for "The"). I don't know whether it's reassuring or not to know that the United Nations hasn't managed to sort most of those out yet either. This site is about a hobby, not trying to focus every single problem of the existence of 7 billion people into a couple of dropdown lists. Not caring about these issues in general is probably not a good thing, but not caring about them when geocaching is what makes geocaching such a great way to unwind.

[+hzoi 979]

Funny you should bring up the Olympics. The only reason you don't see Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales in the participating countries list is because they competed as Team GB for the 2012 Olympics - presumably so the Scots, Welsh and Irish wouldn't complain too much about the English getting the Olympics. At any other modern Olympics the four countries have sent separate teams. Here's a list of Scottish medal winners, for instance.

 

Ah hah -- no.

 

Funny thing about citing Wikipedia as a primary source -- since it is the website that anyone can edit, you can put anything on there you want. The fact that such a page exists only means that (1) someone created it and (2) subsequent Wikipedia editors have deemed the page of being just valuable enough not to be worth deleting.

 

A quick glance through the official Olympic results page shows no results for England, Scotland, or Wales, but there is a category for Great Britain. Since you accept Wikipedia as your personal savior, however, the same information can be seen reproduced on that site here.

 

Back to the thread at hand: your government proclaims you as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so who is Groundspeak to argue? If you would rather your particular parcel of the kingdom get its own geocaching.com category, feel free to petition your Parliament to make it a self-governing British Crown Dependency like Jersey, Guernsey, or the Isle of Man. (Perhaps Northern Ireland could become a British Overseas Territory like Diego Garcia or the Falklands.)

[+tozainamboku 5]

Back to the thread at hand: your government proclaims you as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so who is Groundspeak to argue? If you would rather your particular parcel of the kingdom get its own geocaching.com category, feel free to petition your Parliament to make it a self-governing British Crown Dependency like Jersey, Guernsey, or the Isle of Man. (Perhaps Northern Ireland could become a British Overseas Territory like Diego Garcia or the Falklands.)

But the government of the United Kindom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland also refer (refers for Americans) to England, Scotland, and Wales as countries.

 

I did enjoy the video that tried to explain all the terms as they refer to the United Kingdom, Great Britain, the Crown, the Commonwealth, Crown Dependencies, Overseas territories, etc. It wasn't to hard to picture a young John Lennon struggling with these definitions in a Liverpool schoolroom and imagining there's no countries.

 

People of Scottish, Welsh, and English ancestry take great pride in their heritage. They know that at one time these were separate countries each with a unique language and culture. They also know that even after centuries of common rule (and dominance by the English) they have managed to preserve some of their language and culture. I think they sometimes fail to appreciate that they have all contributed to the culture and history of Great Britain so that they now have a shared nationality that rest of the world view with some degree of admiration. To much of the world, the argument over what "countries" are in the UK seems a trivial issue.

[AZcachemeister 1]

I have a very interesting book called The Times Atlas of World History.

 

It shows in exquisite detail how the lands of the world have been chopped up, re-combined, sliced, diced, and re-smooshed back together again over the millennia.

 

Hundreds of wars have been fought, millions of lives lost, with untold progress destroyed because some people wanted to be included in a 'country' and others didn't.

 

The world could be such a better place if we could move beyond this political boundary crap, and THAT is what Mr. Lennon was thinking about.

 

Perhaps Groundspeak should just use apolitical blocks on the map to designate where we have found caches?

 

You have found 6732 caches between N32°, N33°, W111°, and W112°.

 

Then nobody would need to worry if their map indicated they had found caches in Ireland, Scotland or East Boneheadia when they actually didn't.

[+DavetecsGirl 0]

Lets look at it this way...

 

Canada has a Prime Minster ( for the whole country)

United States has a president ( for the whole Country)

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has a Prime Minister ( for the whole country)

[+Harry Dolphin 665]

People of Scottish, Welsh, and English ancestry take great pride in their heritage. They know that at one time these were separate countries each with a unique language and culture. They also know that even after centuries of common rule (and dominance by the English) they have managed to preserve some of their language and culture. I think they sometimes fail to appreciate that they have all contributed to the culture and history of Great Britain so that they now have a shared nationality that rest of the world view with some degree of admiration. To much of the world, the argument over what "countries" are in the UK seems a trivial issue.

 

My grandfather emigrated from Scotland in the 1890's. I never met the gentleman. He died in the New York Encephalitis Outbreak in 1921. And, thus, I have a Scottish surname and heritage. But he did emigrate from the United Kingdom. On the other fin, genetically, I more resemble his wife, whose father emigrated from the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the 1860's. Probably Czech, but possibly Hungarian. Then again, most of my siblings take after my mother. She was half Plattdeutsch, half Hochdeutsch. But I don't see anyone insisting that Plattdeutsch, Mitteldeutsch and Hochdeutsch should be considered three different counties. They are all part of Deutschland. Wait! My great-grandparents came from the Austro-Hungarian Empire? Isn't that a country?

My major complaint in this thread is that GC considers Northern Ireland to be part of Ireland, rather than the United Kingdom. No other competent authority accepts this. But GC is an authority to itself. Whatever it says is reality.

My other complaint is that GC decided to move St Pierre et Miquelon from "France" to "Other overseas French Dependencies." That happened when the second cache in St Pierre et Miquelon was published. As part of "France" I might have taken a few extra days, and a few hundred dollars to visit. But not as listed now. The French think that they are part of France, with elected officials to the French parliament. The residents think they are part of France. But GC has created a new category. I wonder when it will decide that Hawaii is not part of the US? More like an overseas dependency.

[+Deceangi 0]

My major complaint in this thread is that GC considers Northern Ireland to be part of Ireland, rather than the United Kingdom. No other competent authority accepts this. But GC is an authority to itself. Whatever it says is reality.

 

 

As a US based cacher, you would not have been caught up in the initial issues re Northern Ireland. A very early decision by Jeremy Irish, allowed cachers in NI to List their caches under either the UK or Ireland. This being dependant on their political beliefs.

 

It created a mess, and resulted in cachers in Eire running PQ's getting some caches in NI but not all. On the other side, cachers in Scotland running PQ's, were getting caches Listed under the UK in NI.

 

When Regions for the UK and Ireland were being developed. A solution, which took Politics out of caching in Northern Ireland was looked for. Groundspeak was offered 2 separate options

 

The 6 counties of NI being Listed as Ulster UK

 

or

 

The Historic Region of Ulster, which Pre-dated the invasion of the Island of Ireland, bringing it under the English Crown, so pre-dating the modern troubles by centuries. A Region which took in the current 6 counties in NI, but also several in the Eire

 

The best advice given to Groundspeak, was for the Non Political second choice. When this was adopted by Groundspeak, cachers on both sides of the Political divide living in NI [and at the end of the day, this decision affects them the most] happily accepted the usage of the Historic Ulster.

 

Since the creation, it has mainly been Non NI based cachers, who complain, or the odd NI cacher, who has just started caching, and has no knowledge of the past history of the hobby in NI. The change was and has been happily accepted by those who were extremely vocal about which Country they Listed their caches under [so bringing Politics into the hobby], so is a win win situation for the hobby in NI.

 

Deceangi

Who pre regions, used to Review caches in NI, Listed as being in the UK. But not those Listed as being in Ireland.

[AZcachemeister 1]

My major complaint in this thread is that GC considers Northern Ireland to be part of Ireland, rather than the United Kingdom. No other competent authority accepts this. But GC is an authority to itself. Whatever it says is reality.

 

 

As a US based cacher, you would not have been caught up in the initial issues re Northern Ireland. A very early decision by Jeremy Irish, allowed cachers in NI to List their caches under either the UK or Ireland. This being dependant on their political beliefs.

 

It created a mess, and resulted in cachers in Eire running PQ's getting some caches in NI but not all. On the other side, cachers in Scotland running PQ's, were getting caches Listed under the UK in NI.

 

When Regions for the UK and Ireland were being developed. A solution, which took Politics out of caching in Northern Ireland was looked for. Groundspeak was offered 2 separate options

 

The 6 counties of NI being Listed as Ulster UK

 

or

 

The Historic Region of Ulster, which Pre-dated the invasion of the Island of Ireland, bringing it under the English Crown, so pre-dating the modern troubles by centuries. A Region which took in the current 6 counties in NI, but also several in the Eire

 

The best advice given to Groundspeak, was for the Non Political second choice. When this was adopted by Groundspeak, cachers on both sides of the Political divide living in NI [and at the end of the day, this decision affects them the most] happily accepted the usage of the Historic Ulster.

 

Since the creation, it has mainly been Non NI based cachers, who complain, or the odd NI cacher, who has just started caching, and has no knowledge of the past history of the hobby in NI. The change was and has been happily accepted by those who were extremely vocal about which Country they Listed their caches under [so bringing Politics into the hobby], so is a win win situation for the hobby in NI.

 

Deceangi

Who pre regions, used to Review caches in NI, Listed as being in the UK. But not those Listed as being in Ireland.

 

Which makes me say, "Can't we all just get along?"

Why can't Ireland just be Ireland (it is an island after all)

Scotland just be Scotland

 

Etc....

[+Ocean Lovers 0]

I recently visited this region and found some caches in Ulster--some in Belfast and some in Portrush. In fact, I believe that I found caches in the UK region of Ulster, but I am not receiving credit for any caches in the UK under countries where I have cached. If you look at the mapping function under my statistics, it doesn't show any caches found in Ulster. Conversely, I did get a souvenir for Ulster. There is some inconsistency here in how Groundspeak treats this region, in spite of all of the elaborate logic set forward above.

[TheCyndicate 0]

You also have to view it from a legal standpoint.

 

For example,.. for me to travel from Las Vegas to Scotland to work a fight, what type of passport/visa do I need?

 

I already know the answer to this, since we just had a fight in Scotland,.. it's a UK Visa and the passport rules are governed by the UK.

 

So the country is the United Kingdom.

Edited October 4, 2013 by TheCyndicate

[+NYPaddleCacher 1176]

I recently visited this region and found some caches in Ulster--some in Belfast and some in Portrush. In fact, I believe that I found caches in the UK region of Ulster, but I am not receiving credit for any caches in the UK under countries where I have cached. If you look at the mapping function under my statistics, it doesn't show any caches found in Ulster. Conversely, I did get a souvenir for Ulster. There is some inconsistency here in how Groundspeak treats this region, in spite of all of the elaborate logic set forward above.

 

I'm not very familiar with the geography in the UK but I might be able to shed some light the apparent inconsistency.

 

First of all I don't know which caches you found in Ulster but when I did a search for Portrush the list of caches identified are listed as in Ulster, Ireland. The list of regions that GS uses is based upon the UN geopolitical ontology. At the top level are countries and territories, and the UN geopolitical ontology lists the UK at that level and does not list Scotland, Wales, and England as distinct countries. The GS countries and territories list is the same. Many of the top level countries and territories are sub-divided, generally by administrative regions, into what the GS site labels as States/Provinces. If you look at the Advanced Search page and select a "Country" you can see how the UK and Ireland are broken down into sub-regions.

 

In the case of souvenirs, Ireland has souvenirs for each of the regions, while GS chose only to award souvenirs for the UK as a whole (personally, I think that they should created souvenirs for the U.K. sub-regions) which is why you got a souvenir for Ulster and not the UK. The map of the UK and Ireland counties that is on your profile page is something that you included from the MyGeocachingProfile site. That's not a Groundspeak web site thus it's understandable that the geopolitical breakdown might not be consistent with the countries/territories/states/provinces that are used on the geocaching.com site.

 

The gist of it is that Groundspeak isn't making up these geopolitical boundaries. They're using a U.N. standard.

 

 

 

[+Ocean Lovers 0]

Actually, the map is the same on the geocaching.com statistics page. Interestingly, the MyGeocachingProfile.com lists my finds in Portrush and Belfast in Co. Antrim of Northern Ireland, a separate country. It is the geocaching.com pages that are inconsistent in their treatment of Northern Ireland.

[+NYPaddleCacher 1176]

Actually, the map is the same on the geocaching.com statistics page. Interestingly, the MyGeocachingProfile.com lists my finds in Portrush and Belfast in Co. Antrim of Northern Ireland, a separate country. It is the geocaching.com pages that are inconsistent in their treatment of Northern Ireland.

 

Could you show me the map on the geocaching.com page statistics page for the UK/Ireland? On my page it shows a map for Europe and does not break the UK or Ireland into counties. l The only county map on your profile is the one from mygeocachingprofile.com The fact that the map from MyGeocachingProfiles.com shows Belfast and Portush in Antrim and the geocaching.com site has them in Ulster, Ireland is because their using different data sources for their GIS information. Within the context of the geocaching.com site they're consistent but they might not be consistent with a site that is using a different data source.

 

In any case, the Ireland/Northern Ireland/UK issue is not new and GS has this page which explains why it's works the way it does. It's been like that a long time (before GS had souvenirs and maps on the statistics pages) and changing it would impact the place names for a *lot* of geocachers.

[+Ocean Lovers 0]

When you click on the Statistics tab from my profile, the first page that comes up is called "Basic." In that page is a tab for "Maps." It is on this page that the hole for Northern Ireland appears.

[+NYPaddleCacher 1176]

When you click on the Statistics tab from my profile, the first page that comes up is called "Basic." In that page is a tab for "Maps." It is on this page that the hole for Northern Ireland appears.

 

Okay, I see what you mean. I thought you were referring to a county map that you added to your public profile page. Those maps on the Maps tab *came* from MyGeocachingProfile.com and leave much to be desired. You'd never be able to tell that I have Singapore colored in on my map if it didn't list the name on the right side of the maps. Although there are separate maps for the US, Europe, and Africa they use the same base map for the World map and the map for Asia.

 

I seriously doubt that GS is going to change their stance on using geographic boundaries instead of the political boundaries. We're also probably never going to see England, Wales, and Scotland listed as distinct countries. The place name and souvenir that is awarded is consistent though. I have no idea how they're integrating the geocache find location with the maps on the statistics page but I suspect that the code which colors in the section of the maps and the maps themselves are tightly coupled and would probably require a substantial amount of work for what might appear to be an easy fix.

 

I took a look at a user profile from someone in the UK that had a small number of finds (all near London) and it should that portion of Northern Ireland "colored in". Guess you're going to have to go back to the UK and find a cache in another part of the island to get the UK colored in on your stats page. I'm going back to Europe at the end of November and hope to add Denmark and Norway to my list of countries in Europe in which I've found a cache as I've got short layovers in Oslo and Copenhagen. That'll bring my total to 10 (in Europe) but I still won't have the UK or Ireland.

 

 

[+DENelson83 0]

Just use the ISO 3166-1 list of countries. Then any issues similar to this could just be offloaded to ISO.

[+ivanidea 0]

Perhaps it will be easier for the Yanks to understand if we equate England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland to states.

 

There are souvenirs for each US state, so I don't see why we can't have a souvenir for the UK 'states'.

 

We are not asking for county souvenirs, just 4 souvenirs for the UK. Germany has 16 souvenirs for their 'states'.

[+NYPaddleCacher 1176]

Perhaps it will be easier for the Yanks to understand if we equate England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland to states.

 

There are souvenirs for each US state, so I don't see why we can't have a souvenir for the UK 'states'.

 

We are not asking for county souvenirs, just 4 souvenirs for the UK. Germany has 16 souvenirs for their 'states'.

 

Each regional souvenir, whether it's for a country or state, is associated with a country_id or state_id respectively. For example, the country_id for Germany is 79 and the state_id for Bremen "state" is 139. The country_id for the UK is 11. The UK is broken down into sub-regions and each as a state_id (the state_id for Yorkshire is 214). There isn't a country_id for England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland. GS *could* have created souvenirs for the sub-regions in the UK because there is a unique identifier for each region. They can't create one for England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland because there isn't a country_id for them. Personally, I think that GS should have created souvenirs for the UK sub-regions and created 1 for Ireland rather than the 5 sub-regions.

 

GS doesn't make up these regions. They're using data, primarily from the UN geopolitical ontology which closely matches the ISO-3166-1 standard. That standard doesn't include separate identifiers for England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland either. Neither does the CIA World Factbook (another commonly used source for country profiles).

 

 

[+geodarts 60]

 

GS doesn't make up these regions. They're using data, primarily from the UN geopolitical ontology which closely matches the ISO-3166-1 standard. That standard doesn't include separate identifiers for England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland either. Neither does the CIA World Factbook (another commonly used source for country profiles).

 

I don't know about how the CIA defines things but during our recent trip to Scotland I saw their national flag everywhere we went, although Scotland's parliament also flies the Union flag in a secondary position. I heard one of my favorite professional darts player being introduced as being from Scotland, listened to Scottish music, drank Scottish beer and found caches that were identified as being in Southern or Northern Scotland, United Kingdom. So it seems like Groundspeak does recognize Scotland as being a distinct area within the UK - and creating a souvenir for that area seems like it would not be insurmountable.

 

They have a separate legal system, Gaelic commands "equal respect" with English, and Scotland is often described as a country within the UK. Regardless of how the independence referendum turns out out, it seems as deserving of a souvenir as California. The same could probably be said of Wales or Northern Ireland.

Edited October 17, 2013 by geodarts

[+NYPaddleCacher 1176]

GS doesn't make up these regions. They're using data, primarily from the UN geopolitical ontology which closely matches the ISO-3166-1 standard. That standard doesn't include separate identifiers for England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland either. Neither does the CIA World Factbook (another commonly used source for country profiles).

 

I don't know about how the CIA defines things but during our recent trip to Scotland I saw their national flag everywhere we went, although Scotland's parliament also flies the Union flag in a secondary position. I heard one of my favorite professional darts player being introduced as being from Scotland, listened to Scottish music, drank Scottish beer and found caches that were identified as being in Southern or Northern Scotland, United Kingdom. So it seems like Groundspeak does recognize Scotland as being a distinct area within the UK - and creating a s.ouvenir for that area seems like it would not be insurmountable.

 

They have a separate legal system, Gaelic commands "equal respect" with English, and Scotland is often described as a country within the UK. Regardless of how the independence referendum turns out out, it seems as deserving of a souvenir as California. The same could probably be said of Wales or Northern Ireland.

 

I absolutely agree that GS should have created distinct souvenirs for the regions within the UK (Southern or Northern Scotland, North/South Wales, etc). It would have made more sense then having the six different regions in Ireland as souvenirs.

 

My point was that in order to award a souvenir there has to be a unique identifier for an area and none of the standard lists of countries/territories list Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland as countries. GS would have to diverge from standard lists and add their own identifiers and they've had a published policy for a long time on how they handle the UK/Ireland.

 

However, it appears that the GS list doesn't match up exactly with other standard country/territory lists. For example, the UN geopolitical ontology lists Netherlands Antilles as a single country, while the ISO 3166 standard does not have an entry for Netherland Antilles, and instead separates them as Saint Martin (French part) and Sint Martaan (Dutch part). The GS list has Netherland Antilles and Saint Martin as distinct entries.

 

 

[+tozainamboku 5]

They're still not.

[+strandum 0]

Could somebody answer these questions related to this topic.

 

1. I have cached in Northern Ireland. I tought they were a part of the UK but no. The finds were added to my Ireland finds?

 

2. This summer I cached in Gibraltar. They list as a country separate from the UK. How are Gibraltar different from Wales, Scotland?

 

Strandum

[+hzoi 979]

I know this is a zombie thread bump, but since I pulled up this unanswered question during a related search, I figured I'd answer.

 

On 9/20/2014 at 9:36 PM, strandum said:

1. I have cached in Northern Ireland. I tought they were a part of the UK but no. The finds were added to my Ireland finds?

 

See here.

 

On 9/20/2014 at 9:36 PM, strandum said:

2. This summer I cached in Gibraltar. They list as a country separate from the UK. How are Gibraltar different from Wales, Scotland?

 

Groundspeak generally follows the ISO 3166-1 alpha 2 listing to determine what's a "country" and what isn't.  In this sense, "country" is shorthand - the ISO codes "represent countries, dependent territories, and special areas of geographical interest."

 

Wales, Scotland, and England are all part of Great Britain, which has its own ISO code  -- two, actually, GB and UK, but I'm not going into that.  So: England, Scotland, and Wales don't have their own ISo code and so Groundspeak doesn;t treat them as "countries."  

 

British overseas territories like Gibraltar and Diego Garcia have their own ISO codes, as do crown dependencies such as Jersey and Guernsey, so they get their own geocaching "country" listing.

 

Similarly, in the US, the USVI, Guam, and Puerto Rico have their own "country" listing; there's also basically an "other" category for "US Minor Outlying Islands," so places like Wake Island, Palmyra Atoll, and Navassa Island  have their own kooky country listing.  (Not many caches, though.)

[+NYPaddleCacher 1176]

2 hours ago, hzoi said:

I know this is a zombie thread bump, but since I pulled up this unanswered question during a related search, I figured I'd answer.

 

 

See here.

 

 

Groundspeak generally follows the ISO 3166-1 alpha 2 listing to determine what's a "country" and what isn't.  In this sense, "country" is shorthand - the ISO codes "represent countries, dependent territories, and special areas of geographical interest."

 

Wales, Scotland, and England are all part of Great Britain, which has its own ISO code  -- two, actually, GB and UK, but I'm not going into that.  So: England, Scotland, and Wales don't have their own ISo code and so Groundspeak doesn;t treat them as "countries."  

 

British overseas territories like Gibraltar and Diego Garcia have their own ISO codes, as do crown dependencies such as Jersey and Guernsey, so they get their own geocaching "country" listing.

 

Similarly, in the US, the USVI, Guam, and Puerto Rico have their own "country" listing; there's also basically an "other" category for "US Minor Outlying Islands," so places like Wake Island, Palmyra Atoll, and Navassa Island  have their own kooky country listing.  (Not many caches, though.)

 

This covers most of the confusion regarding geocaching "countries".  A couple of other points to add.

 

From what I'd read previously, the list of "countries" that geocaching.com uses mostly based on the U.N. Geopolitical Ontology (http://www.fao.org/countryprofiles/geoinfo/en/) which closely aligns with the ISO-3166 standard.  In addition to not recognizing England, Wales, and Scotland as distinct countries, there are several areas which are characterized as "disputed territories".  One such example is Palestine.  Many of the other disputed areas are about boundary lines which are disputed between two countries (and since geocaches are based on lat/long coordinates that can cause some confusion).   Sometimes this can result in two different countries laying claim to islands in a river which separates the two countries.

 

Complicating matters is that some of the map data used to show boundaries on stats pages doesn't align with "country list" data.   I haven't look in awhile by their were some that reported that caches found in Kosovo would be shown as being in Serbia, but the map data had a separate boundary, resulting in a "hole" on the map where Kosovo exists.

 

At the end of the day, if we all just consider the list that GS uses to be the authority, and want to fill a polygon on a map or add a country to a list of countries in which one has found a cache, abiding by that list will ensure that all geocacher stats are based upon the same criteria.