Cache Removal

[+BAIN!]

So I placed a cache yesterday in a "high end" neighborhood yesterday and it was published same day. Soon after, I've already got to "notes" saying that there have been recent break ins in said neighborhood. A resident of the neighborhood talked to one of the note writing cachers yesterday and they said they were ok with the cache being there after geocaching was explained to them. So even after the residents said they were ok with it and there are notes written about police being called as a possibility and my cache description saying to use stealth liberally, I've had two local cachers email me about removing the cache because of it being dangerous. What do you guys think? I'm going to keep it up because it follows all caching guidelines, it doesn't put anyone in danger except of possibly having to talk with police and another local cacher has already said they contacted police about geocaching and they know about it and are ok with it.

Edited April 4, 2013 by BAIN!

[+Beach_hut]

I think if the local residents are OK with it then its OK. As a finder I'm not overly comfortable with hides close to residential areas. But a note on the cache page explaining that the residents are OK might be the best move.

[+stijnhommes]

Cachers who go out to look for this cache should NOT use stealth. It invariable makes you act more suspiciously, which causes people to call the police even if they are okay with the cache being there.

 

I've met a security guard while caching just once. Once I explained to him what I was doing, I could leave. Remember you're doing nothing wrong, so you shouldn't be afraid to talk to police if they happen to show up in connection to the recent burglaries.

[+BAIN!]

Both notes on the cache say to be honest if police arrive and that some residents have told others they are ok with it. The cache is located by a fountain in the neighborhood.

 

I will go back and tone down the stealth. Thanks for the suggestions.

[+Legochugglers]

A difficulty 3 cache in an overlooked residential neighbourhood.

 

I obviously don't know the area and I am sure it must be a very interesting hide but I will still ask you to explain 'WHY'

[+BAIN!]

Over a 1 because its not accessible from a wheelchair, a little harder for prying eyes and finally for being made to look like it belongs to the fountain and its underground.

[GOF and Bacall]

Kind of a tough call. The residents say they don't mind then it shouldn't be a problem. However, the first time I hear of a cacher having problems with the locals at one of my caches I archive it. It's just a game and nobody needs to have that kind of encounter.

 

Are you sure that you have adequate permission? It may look like public property but may actually belong to an association or some such entity.

[+gpsblake]

While nothing wrong with the cache itself, just remember people who live in richy neighborhoods don't like those of lower economic classes showing up, that's why they segregate themselves in those communities. I look at this way, if an african-american male or a "redneck" shows up by himself to look for the cache, will the neighborhood call the cops? If the answer is probably yes, then your cache probably shouldn't be there. And I've always taken the phrase "stealth required" as meaning the cache shouldn't be there but I'm going to place anyways.

[+Legochugglers]

Over a 1 because its not accessible from a wheelchair, a little harder for prying eyes and finally for being made to look like it belongs to the fountain and its underground.

Sorry, you mis-understand.

Why are you bringing people to an overlooked residential area expecting them to hunt around in front of the houses where you openly acknowledge that the residents are already concerned and police may be on alert.

I understood Terrain rating related to wheelchair accessibility not the difficulty rating.

 

I repeat my question. Why are you bringing cachers to this GZ?

[+BAIN!]

Because the fountain in this neighborhood is a pretty near fountain in our dull town. It is a city maintain fountain and it is on an island in a circle of houses where the fountain and the mailboxes are the only things on the island... I am the mailman for that neighborhood so they didn't think of me being there when I placed it.

[+BAIN!]

Oh and I spoke with the city worker at the fountain the day I placed it and he had no problem with where it was.

[+fizzymagic]

While nothing wrong with the cache itself, just remember people who live in richy neighborhoods don't like those of lower economic classes showing up, that's why they segregate themselves in those communities. I look at this way, if an african-american male or a "redneck" shows up by himself to look for the cache, will the neighborhood call the cops? If the answer is probably yes, then your cache probably shouldn't be there.

 

I don't understand. Why should the cache not be there? I don't recall there being a guideline about accommodating rich racists. If the cache is placed legally, and the activity of caching is legal, then there is no reason such a cache should not be placed.

[+BAIN!]

I think I will make a flyer and deliver it to the houses tomorrow on my route. Maybe give them my number, geocaching.com and let them know where and what the cache is to ease any suspicions.

[+humboldt flier]

Note on cache page indicating residents aware

 

PLUS

 

A very explicit hint so cachers can get in and out with alacrity

[+BAIN!]

So the hint is so of a play on words of "Just a meter away from the fountain."

 

It's in an under ground water meter box, labeled "water meter."

 

Once, I let the resident all know tomorrow, I'll add that to the description.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Not the sort of cache I would enjoy searching for. DNFed a similar one on the island in a cul-de-sac in a ritzy neighborhood. Neighbors wanted to know what we were doing? CO archived it. Which was probably for the best.

[+Chief301]

I passed on two caches a few days ago because they were in upper middle class neighborhoods and they were just too close to people's houses for me to feel comfortable searching. One I would have practically had to park in someone's driveway. A middle aged man snooping around a residential neighborhood is going to arouse suspicion. Those kinds of hides make me feel creepy and I don't do them most of the time. Not because I'm doing anything wrong but because the SUV driving soccer mom types who live in that sort of neighborhood are generally pretty paranoid and would prefer to call the cops than just go out and ask what you're up to.

 

Maybe I'm stereotyping but that's just the way I feel...

[+geodarts]

I think I will make a flyer and deliver it to the houses tomorrow on my route. Maybe give them my number, geocaching.com and let them know where and what the cache is to ease any suspicions.

 

I recall an incident several years ago where a postal delivery person got into trouble for delivering a Christmas card without proper postage. But you undoubtedly know what your office would or would not allow. Still if I had to go to that length I might think twice about whether its worth it.

[+BAIN!]

I wouldn't deliver it to their box, since that IS a no no. There are only five houses around the island so I would just print out the brochure and probably rubber band it to their door knobs.

 

I've had one person find it who is a local caching pro and he enjoyed it besides thinking someone was watching him...

[+J the Goat]

So the hint is so of a play on words of "Just a meter away from the fountain."

 

It's in an under ground water meter box, labeled "water meter."

 

Once, I let the resident all know tomorrow, I'll add that to the description.

 

One of those things with the heavy concrete lids? I think that's a bad idea for a bunch of reasons, but I'll echo the sentiment of "Why?"

 

Think about this; as soon as someone's house gets broken into, car gets vandalized, something happens in the neighborhood that someone who actually lives there doesn't like, who do you think is going to get blamed?

 

I would archive the cache if I were in your situation. Although, I wouldn't have placed a cache there in the first place if I were you. But that's just me

[+luv-me-jeep]

but wouldn't you feel bad if a trigger happy resident thought a cacher was a thief, casing thier place? if you want to keep it, write a BIG note about possible hazzards, with seeking this cache. folks are very leary these days, can't blame them, I had 3 attempted break ins, one car stolen and one car vandalized. this is not a posh neighborhood... LOL...it has gotten so bad, that a nearby city has now made it illegal to even go thru curb trash, without a high visible permit sticker on your car, that you have to pay for, so residents don't freak out. if it were me, I would remove it.

[+Legochugglers]

I think I will make a flyer and deliver it to the houses tomorrow on my route. Maybe give them my number, geocaching.com and let them know where and what the cache is to ease any suspicions.

As your cache listing suggests cachers hunt for the cache in the hours of darkness you will need to explain this in your flyer so they are aware of this nocturnal, torchlight activity.

Your forum tag line does seem quite ironic under your posts.

[+ras_oscar]

When I go caching I download a PQ containing thousands of current caches. I get the GC code, last 4 finds, date last found, size and hint. I almost never read any of the cache pages, so I would not see any of the information you placed there about after hours, neighborsw, etc etc etc. That's how I roll, and I suspect a great deal of other cachers as well.

[+Semper Questio]

I, of course, know nothing about the GZ in question, but it seems to me there is a possible solution that can bring people to the fountain and avoid most LEO and neighbor encounters. Make the cache an offset. Have folks go to the fountain and either get info that sends them elsewhere or do a projection. Have the final in a less conspicuous spot.

[+Walts Hunting]

Over a 1 because its not accessible from a wheelchair, a little harder for prying eyes and finally for being made to look like it belongs to the fountain and its underground.

 

He asked about the difficulty rating. That has nothing to do with wheel chair. You are confusing it with terrain which does

[+Walts Hunting]

When I go caching I download a PQ containing thousands of current caches. I get the GC code, last 4 finds, date last found, size and hint. I almost never read any of the cache pages, so I would not see any of the information you placed there about after hours, neighborsw, etc etc etc. That's how I roll, and I suspect a great deal of other cachers as well.

 

Plus one on that. I would guess that I read the description on about one percent of the caches I do.

[+Maingray]

When I go caching I download a PQ containing thousands of current caches. I get the GC code, last 4 finds, date last found, size and hint. I almost never read any of the cache pages, so I would not see any of the information you placed there about after hours, neighborsw, etc etc etc. That's how I roll, and I suspect a great deal of other cachers as well.

 

Ditto. And I also walk away from some that look like they could be problematic. In this case, and as always, sounds like the best way to be is confident, tell the truth to neighbors if they ask. They'll soon either ask for it's removal or be accepting.

[+OZ2CPU]

it is actually a huge ADVANTAGE to have nice and friendly geocachers

show up in your area all time of the day,

they scare away rats and burglers,

they collect liter, and repport if they see any bad stuff,

and yes ok they find and sign the geocache, so all should be just fine.

 

a few geocachers do show up at 3AM and they do bring very powerfull lights

and maybe even talk or laught a bit noisy, if your location can not handle this,

you chosen the WRONG location for your cache.

[+Mudfrog]

it is actually a huge ADVANTAGE to have nice and friendly geocachers

show up in your area all time of the day,

they scare away rats and burglers,

they collect liter, and repport if they see any bad stuff,

and yes ok they find and sign the geocache, so all should be just fine.

 

a few geocachers do show up at 3AM and they do bring very powerfull lights

and maybe even talk or laught a bit noisy, if your location can not handle this,

you chosen the WRONG location for your cache.

 

Not sure "HUGE" is appropriate, but i would agree with this,,, if you can get the neighbors to realize this.

 

However, i don't particularly like the idea of the cache being hidden in the water meter box. It may be city property but it's still a hiding spot, that when searched, could possibly cause concerns by the city (the worker you talked to may not spread the word) and/or non caching passersby.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Mudfrog

[+geodarts]

However, i don't particularly like the idea of the cache being hidden in the water meter box. It may be city property but it's still a hiding spot, that when searched, could possibly cause concerns by the city (the worker you talked to may not spread the word) and/or non caching passersby.

 

In my area they are owned by a separate water district but that obviously varies. In any event, I would not open a water meter, any more than I would open an electrical box or take apart any fixture that is owned by another in search of a cache. There are too many ways this could cause problems.

[4wheelin_fool]

It's still a bad idea. There does not need to be a cache everywhere. A geocacher makes a find around the same time that another B/E occurs in the neighborhood, and it gets blamed on the cacher. Or, someone sees a suspicious vehicle in the area and assumes its a geocacher, then finds out it was the burglary suspect.

 

The police inform the neighborhood to be aware of their environment, to take note of unusual activity, and then the mailman leaves a note on everyone's door saying there are outside online gamers visiting and not to worry about it? One way or the other there is going to be broad suspicion and confusion. Remember, there does not need to be a cache everywhere.

[+The Jester]

When I go caching I download a PQ containing thousands of current caches. I get the GC code, last 4 finds, date last found, size and hint. I almost never read any of the cache pages, so I would not see any of the information you placed there about after hours, neighborsw, etc etc etc. That's how I roll, and I suspect a great deal of other cachers as well.

So if you miss important info on the cache page because you don't read it, the only one to blame for problems arising from not following such info is yourself.

[+Ben0w]

Great strategy:

1. put a cache somewhere,

2. inform city workers, police and inhabitants about harmless geocaching

3. get a lot of innocent people (geocachers) to that location, overwhelming police and neighbourhood watch resources

4. break into houses.

 

 

But beware: in most books, the suspect is always the gardener, the milkman or the mailman...

[+uxorious]

When I go caching I download a PQ containing thousands of current caches. I get the GC code, last 4 finds, date last found, size and hint. I almost never read any of the cache pages, so I would not see any of the information you placed there about after hours, neighborsw, etc etc etc. That's how I roll, and I suspect a great deal of other cachers as well.

So if you miss important info on the cache page because you don't read it, the only one to blame for problems arising from not following such info is yourself.

 

I agree, and when caches have to be archived because seekers refuse to read the cache page, that is also on you.

[4wheelin_fool]

Great strategy:

1. put a cache somewhere,

2. inform city workers, police and inhabitants about harmless geocaching

3. get a lot of innocent people (geocachers) to that location, overwhelming police and neighbourhood watch resources

4. break into houses.

 

 

But beware: in most books, the suspect is always the gardener, the milkman or the mailman...

 

They could also sit at the cache location around 10pm and keep watch while having a perfectly good explanation for being in a neighborhood at night, with nobody they know living there to visit. Next their buddy breaks into a house, and if the police arrive, the cacher will the first person they question, while the perp gets a warning text and leaves.

[+tallglenn]

Is anyone else worried about the mailman losing his job, doing all this extra stuff while on duty?

[+BAIN!]

Walking to 5 houses isn't really a time killer. Plus it can count into my lunch time.

[4wheelin_fool]

If you don't have anything to do one night, this could be a good one to do after the sun goes down.

 

Really???

 

Fair warning to future finders. I saw this publish and it was close by so I couldn't resist looking for it. A very nice neighbor came out to see what I was doing. I explained geocaching and he had no problem with it. He then came back to tell me that there had been a recent breakin and the police may be called. I wouldn't advise looking for this one anytime soon in a conspicuous manner.

 

I haven't looked for it yet. But there have been several high end break ins in this area over the past few months. As Team Beard stated if you look for it just be aware you will attract attention to the area residents and maybe the police.

[+BlueDeuce]

So I placed a cache yesterday in a "high end" neighborhood yesterday and it was published same day. Soon after, I've already got to "notes" saying that there have been recent break ins in said neighborhood. A resident of the neighborhood talked to one of the note writing cachers yesterday and they said they were ok with the cache being there after geocaching was explained to them. So even after the residents said they were ok with it and there are notes written about police being called as a possibility and my cache description saying to use stealth liberally, I've had two local cachers email me about removing the cache because of it being dangerous. What do you guys think? I'm going to keep it up because it follows all caching guidelines, it doesn't put anyone in danger except of possibly having to talk with police and another local cacher has already said they contacted police about geocaching and they know about it and are ok with it.

 

I think you know dang well what impact your cache has and I'm not interested in playing your game.

 

Gee, I asked and then people still had a problem then the police were involved - what do you guys think?

 

 

bd

Edited April 6, 2013 by BlueDeuce

[+FiveEyes]

I personally don't like going geocaching in areas where I think people might be watching me, wondering what I am doing. So for that reason I don't like caching in mostly residential areas where the cache is what feels like "too close" to houses, especially if the area is not urban and thus there aren't many people walking about.

Also, although we certainly don't intend it, a geocacher going caching in a residential area that doesn't see much foot traffic can resemble a criminal who is "casing" the area. Criminals often act "oddly" in areas where they are casing, spending too much time looking, hanging about too much in one place, moving too slowly. Also, geocachers might resemble mentally ill people -- standing about in bushes, staring at the ground or at a lampost for a while -- and particularly in non-urban areas this can cause concern among residents. (In my urban city, there are so many mentally ill wandering the streets that it is something people often just ignore).

Therefore, I think it is best geocaching manners not to plant caches in places like you are describing, to avoid "uncomfortable" situations and thus inadvertently present geocaching to others in a not so admirable light. However, there's certainly nothing "illegal" about it -- but perhaps a rich person who saw people dawdling about and acting oddly, and who didn't like that in his area, if he found out they were geocaching, he might be disposed to go and remove that geocache and throw it away. THis is the type of problem you can have when you put caches where they are legally allowed but not desired by some of the locals.

[+BlueDeuce]

There's nothing wrong with urban caches, but there still is a matter of ownership to deal with concerns.

 

And not just simply pass them along to your seekers because you followed guidelines.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

Oh and I spoke with the city worker at the fountain the day I placed it and he had no problem with where it was.

 

Was this city worker an administrator or a director that could actually grant permission? Getting an "I don't mind if it's there" from the guy trimming the trees isn't quite good enough.