Fees for hiding?

[+QClan]

I've been waiting for permission to hide in a local park system for about four weeks now. Caches are set and ready to go. The parks guy knows my caches are ready to go, and calls once a week or so to say that they're still working on developing a policy because they've had a lot of requests. That's all fine.

 

Today he said it was nearly done and discussed it in more detail with me. They're making rules about container type (which makes me nervous... what if they make a rule that only clear containers are allowed, my caches would be out, but that's their right, I just wish I knew before), placement spot, and he'd meet me at the site to have me sign something and watch me hide.

 

Then he said there will be a fee for each placed cache. They're still working on a pricing structure.

 

I didn't say much but was very surprised. Is that common, for a park to charge cache owners to place caches? I'm trying to go about this the right way and am dying of impatience, but the fee seems a bit of a blow to me right now. I don't mean to be sulky and if it's common we'll pay if that's where we end up placing, and if the fees are reasonable.

 

It's killing me that there's this LOVELY multi-acre park that is very underused and has not one single cache in it. I'm also wondering if they'll apply this fee to other caches already placed. This park system has many caches in it.

[+Cool Cow Cachers]

Bye bye. I'll place our caches elsewhere. We have enough value tied up in a cache with the container, prep, contents and time that I would never pay for a placement permit.

[+Semper Questio]

No, none of that is new or unusual at all. If heard of fees as high as $25 per year to have a cache in a park.

[+BAIN!]

Is it a public park? If it is, I would have just placed it and they would have never known.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Is it a public park? If it is, I would have just placed it and they would have never known.

Now that there is a SUPER answer.

 

Probably about one of the best ways to have geocaching banned somewhere altogether.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Is it a public park? If it is, I would have just placed it and they would have never known.

Now that there is a SUPER answer.

 

Probably about one of the best ways to have geocaching banned somewhere altogether.

 

The New Forest in the United Kingdom had caches in (without permission)...

The caches started to go missing.

 

Seems the park rangers were doing the removing.

 

After some long negotiations an agreement was reached.

Caches are allowed, but only so many active ones at a time.

Most of the different UK caching sites are included and work with the agreement.

 

Remember. They are aware of geocaching now.

 

Any one can access the site.

Park staff can start an account and see what caches are there without permission.

I believe Groundspeak will make an official account Premium free of charge?

So even placing a cache as a PMO could still be seen...

 

Not the way to keep Geocaching in peoples good books.

 

Really not fair to charge you, and it shouldn't be per cache.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Bear and Ragged

[+Manville Possum]

Is it a public park? If it is, I would have just placed it and they would have never known.

Now that there is a SUPER answer.

 

Probably about one of the best ways to have geocaching banned somewhere altogether.

Exactly. That is why geocaching is banned in many places. Most reviewers are aware of policies in their reviewing area, but some slip through.

How about $59 per year to place a geocache in a National Forest after the permit has been screened twice? http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cherokee/recreation/otheractivities/?recid=34864&actid=103

Read the part about virtual listings. Waymarking don't look so bad now does it?

[+Ben0w]

I would never pay a fee! Please use your negotiation skills and talk them out of that. If that doesnt work, I would not place a cache, just to make a my point of view clear. It may help to state the non-commercial aspect of the game. At least you dont make money or provide organized tours (or do you?).

 

A park is for recreation, geocaching fits in that scope and if they dont get along with public usage of the park (including some side effects not only restricted to geocaching), they should close it for the general public.

 

Just make sure you create a cache that doesnt invite to excesses, in other words: make a good cache.

 

Geocaching should not become a business model for land owners AND not a suspected dangerous activity. In the given case its now your responsibility to represent the GC community in a "professional" manner. Good luck!

[+QClan]

Don't worry, I won't place without permission! I'm more just frustrated. I hadn't realized there could be a fee. I know park guy is frustrated as well. This was supposed to be finished weeks ago, and they keep delaying.

 

I'll look at the fee if they manage to come up with it soon, and decide to place there or seek permission elsewhere. My husband's in med school. We just don't have the money for a 25 buck a year fee, especially because I have three to place.

 

I was really hoping to place this weekend. It really seemed like things would come together to do that! Oh well. Disappointments happen. I think I'm extra frustrated because I have anxiety about calling people I don't know. I'm reeeeeeeeally bad at it, and I feel like I've done all this and it may not work.

 

Bleh. I'll get over it. Thanks for the advice. I didn't know that this was common, so it was out of left field and surprised me. Now I'm more prepared, and I'll keep jumping through whatever hoops I need to in order to place this cache. I REALLY like this park.

 

I'm sure many of you had to go through way more to place caches, so please excuse my whining/sulking. I'm just excited about hiding my first cache!

[+BAIN!]

For the record, my post was made in jest...

 

Can you "negotiate" with the park or set up a sort of meeting with the parks department to discuss cache placements and if they are determined to have a placement fee, having it as a yearly fee with a certain number per cacher in the parks. I mean, it can only be so many caches in a park anyways due to Rule .1

[+Ben0w]

Dont let yourself be overwhelmed just because its your first cache! Would be a bad setting for negotiations. Maybe getting the local GC community (more experienced cache owners) involved may help.

 

What do the park owners provide for a possible fee? Just letting you place a cache is surely not worth it.

[+QClan]

I would never pay a fee! Please use your negotiation skills and talk them out of that. If that doesnt work, I would not place a cache, just to make a my point of view clear. It may help to state the non-commercial aspect of the game. At least you dont make money or provide organized tours (or do you?).

 

A park is for recreation, geocaching fits in that scope and if they dont get along with public usage of the park (including some side effects not only restricted to geocaching), they should close it for the general public.

 

Just make sure you create a cache that doesnt invite to excesses, in other words: make a good cache.

 

Geocaching should not become a business model for land owners AND not a suspected dangerous activity. In the given case its now your responsibility to represent the GC community in a "professional" manner. Good luck!

 

Ah! That means talking to more people!

 

I kid. Thanks for the advice. My "parks guy" is out tomorrow, but I'll talk to him on Monday. I'll mention that I'll make no money from this, and that this isn't commercial and will really just be people walking the trails. I'll also offer to talk to the higher ups and find out the reasoning for the fee. That might give me an idea of the concerns. They might think I'm making money off of this.

 

As far as a good cache... I hope it's a good cache! I've put a lot of time into it and spent a lot of time surfing these forums about cool caches and creating good quality caches. It's a series for families, so it'll be easy finds, but fun containers (that are waterproof, I swear!). I've got the hiding spots picked and everything. I'm just waiting on permission.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

How about $59 per year to place a geocache in a National Forest after the permit has been screened twice? http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cherokee/recreation/otheractivities/?recid=34864&actid=103

 

Ooh, that's bad. At least it's a regional policy (and not in my area).

[GOF and Bacall]

I would not pay a fee. At least not around here. We have plenty of places to place a cache that don't require taking a hammer to the piggy bank.

[+eccentric_]

In the parks around us we have the transparent container rule and it must be clearly marked as such but no fees.

 

We also need to apply for a permit and after a year it needs to be moved or removed (too limit the bushwhacking damage) and needs to be within 30ft for a existing trail.

Edited April 4, 2013 by eccentric_

[+Manville Possum]

How about $59 per year to place a geocache in a National Forest after the permit has been screened twice? http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cherokee/recreation/otheractivities/?recid=34864&actid=103

 

Ooh, that's bad. At least it's a regional policy (and not in my area).

Yes, Region 8 only includes 13 States from Texas to Virginia. Too bad for us, lucky you.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Map+of+Us+Forest+Regions&id=9C25982D1446CAB74D793FCD6F6A9F4BC6B3FBBA&FORM=IQFRBA

[+Viajero Perdido]

Fees are rare to nonexistent up here in Canada.

 

If nobody seems to be using the "land of liberty" tagline, maybe we should grab it.

[+geodarts]

I agree with those who suggested that it may be a good idea to invite other cachers to come to a meeting if the park is thinking about imposing fees. It certainly can't hurt to get others involved.

[+wimseyguy]

Since most of your finds are in Maryland, I'll assume you are planning your hides there as well. Contact the Maryland Geocaching Society and get them involved in this discussion. They are one of the oldest and best organized state groups out there, and have done some pretty amazing things with previously restrictive land managers. Good Luck.

 

North Carolina State Parks charge a fee and have a very restrictive permit policy.

The National Forests in NC do not charge the $59 fee mentioned earlier in this thread, and have been pretty easy to work with once we established a formal policy with them.

We don't have any fees to hide anywhere else in NC, but do have a few other properties with permit policies. It varies from place to place.

Edited April 5, 2013 by wimseyguy

[Luckless]

Here in New York the state parks have their own geocaching rules that you have to follow besides those from Groundspeak. I had placed a previous cache in a state park and didn't have to pay a fee so when I went to place another in another state park I was surprised when I was told it would cost me $10. The reviewer (NYadmin) saw my post complaining about the discrepancy and he called the park department to tell them there was no fee to place geocaches in state parks. It's all good now. Geocaching was completely new to the park staff and they got it mixed up.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Yes, Region 8 only includes 13 States from Texas to Virginia. Too bad for us, lucky you.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Map+of+Us+Forest+Regions&id=9C25982D1446CAB74D793FCD6F6A9F4BC6B3FBBA&FORM=IQFRBA

No mistake, you have my deepest sympathies. You made me nervous with that comment, because I just invested lots of $$$ and about five month's worth of weekends on geocaches that I was hoping to place in a national forest. I looked up their policy just to be sure, and they have a totally different interpretation of the exact same legislation. The special use permit only applies to large-scale operations, like building a resort, or filming a movie, in my neck of the woods. I hope the guy in charge of our region is healthy and loves his job. It might also help if he's behind on his mortgage and can't afford to retire, but I can't bring myself to wish for that.

[+SwineFlew]

Is it a public park? If it is, I would have just placed it and they would have never known.

Now that there is a SUPER answer.

 

Probably about one of the best ways to have geocaching banned somewhere altogether.

 

The New Forest in the United Kingdom had caches in (without permission)...

The caches started to go missing.

 

Seems the park rangers were doing the removing.

 

After some long negotiations an agreement was reached.

Caches are allowed, but only so many active ones at a time.

Most of the different UK caching sites are included and work with the agreement.

 

Remember. They are aware of geocaching now.

 

Any one can access the site.

Park staff can start an account and see what caches are there without permission.

I believe Groundspeak will make an official account Premium free of charge?

So even placing a cache as a PMO could still be seen...

 

Not the way to keep Geocaching in peoples good books.

 

Really not fair to charge you, and it shouldn't be per cache.

Yes, I read that somewhere along with able to see the final of puzzles.

[AZcachemeister]

I wouldn't hide a cache in a park (system) that charged me a per-cache fee...unless they were going to do the maintenance for me!

 

Or, if there were a charge for visiting the park and my per-visit fee was waived because I needed to do maintenance.

 

I can understand permits and numbers limitations (as well as container restrictions, etc.).

 

Perhaps they are afraid of the flood of visitors that will overtax the facilities?

[+Manville Possum]

Yes, Region 8 only includes 13 States from Texas to Virginia. Too bad for us, lucky you.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Map+of+Us+Forest+Regions&id=9C25982D1446CAB74D793FCD6F6A9F4BC6B3FBBA&FORM=IQFRBA

No mistake, you have my deepest sympathies. You made me nervous with that comment, because I just invested lots of $$$ and about five month's worth of weekends on geocaches that I was hoping to place in a national forest. I looked up their policy just to be sure, and they have a totally different interpretation of the exact same legislation. The special use permit only applies to large-scale operations, like building a resort, or filming a movie, in my neck of the woods. I hope the guy in charge of our region is healthy and loves his job. It might also help if he's behind on his mortgage and can't afford to retire, but I can't bring myself to wish for that.

Really when it comes to who is in charge, it's someone in Texas. Geocachers trying to do the right thing and ask permission first is what started all of this, not geocachers tearing up the forest. Groundspeak published quite a few listings that should never have been approved after the Laws were written. Many of us own these "ignored" listings on NFS property, but no new ones will be published by my local reviewers. Many land policys are posted on my local reviewers profile page. Don't think the geocaching community in my area has not tried to work with local land managers with CITO events and through educating the public about geocaching. So I hate to inform you, but what is going on in my area in Region 8 has just not made it's way to all areas yet. Just like hides on VDOT property are banned in Virginia, it started in Northern Virginia and spread across the State, so to make it fair to everyone in Region 8, we all will be effected equally. Our best ally is Groundspeak to lobby for us.

[+Bushwalker53]

That's not ok to have to pay a fee! I wouldn't. No other parks have so why does this park have to?

I wouldn't pay the fee if I were you. I'd just hide the caches elsewhere.

[+ras_oscar]

If its a public park I would wonder aloud if the park management has the authority to collect a fee. That's a tax and taxes can only be levied by elected officials, that in turn answer to the people that elect them. Personally I would not pay a fee to place a cache. I'd politely say " thank you, no" and move my caches somewhere else. Congratulations on doing the right thing and seeking permission. Its harder, but its the right thing to do.

[+MartyBartfast]

I would say, if they demand payment then walk away and place it somewhere else and politely point out that they will be losing visitors as a result.

 

I don't know what the norm is in the US with regard to this, but I'm pretty sure that in the UK several years ago a regional Forestry Commission (which controls a very large area of accessible woodland) wanted to charge for cache placement (I think it was about £50/$75 but could be wrong) and the consensus in the UK was that the fee should not be paid (even if it was reduced) as it could set a precedent and before you know it every landowner would be trying to charge. After a while and plenty of communication that FC backed down, and they now allow caches to be placed with no charge.

 

As for them stipulating their own restrictions, then I think that's fair and you should accommodate them on that one.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Geocachers trying to do the right thing and ask permission first is what started all of this, not geocachers tearing up the forest.

 

That's what I've always figured. Administrators don't start making rules until people start asking for permission. Right now, every bureaucracy in the Union is strapped for cash and charging for anything that has a name.

 

"Excuse me, Mr. Ranger, can I place a geocache on National Forest land?"

 

The Ranger thinks about it for a minute. He has no idea what that is. "That will require a special use permit. There will, of course, be a fee for that."

 

"A fee?" The geocacher is getting nervous at this point, "What kind of fee?"

 

The ranger rubs his chin and looks the geocacher over, assessing his probable net worth and his ability to contribute toward the Ranger's monthly boat payment. "Fifty dollars."

 

"Fifty dollars?! Why does it cost that much?"

 

"Well...you know. It costs money to, um...well, it covers the cost of the land use, and that sort of thing."

 

Yeah, right. How much does it cost a land manager to have a box sitting on the ground? Nothing? And it generates revenue by attracting visitors? We should be charging them for our geocaches, for crying out loud.

Edited April 5, 2013 by nonaeroterraqueous

[+Manville Possum]

Geocachers trying to do the right thing and ask permission first is what started all of this, not geocachers tearing up the forest.

 

That's what I've always figured. Administrators don't start making rules until people start asking for permission. Right now, every bureaucracy in the Union is strapped for cash and charging for anything that has a name.

 

"Excuse me, Mr. Ranger, can I place a geocache on National Forest land?"

 

The Ranger thinks about it for a minute. He has no idea what that is. "That will require a special use permit. There will, of course, be a fee for that."

 

"A fee?" The geocacher is getting nervous at this point, "What kind of fee?"

 

The ranger rubs his chin and looks the geocacher over, assessing his probable net worth and his ability to contribute toward the Ranger's monthly boat payment. "Fifty dollars."

 

"Fifty dollars?! Why does it cost that much?"

 

"Well...you know. It costs money to, um...well, it covers the cost of the land use, and that sort of thing."

 

Yeah, right. How much does it cost a land manager to have a box sitting on the ground? Nothing? And it generates revenue by attracting visitors? We should be charging them for our geocaches, for crying out loud.

Well, if you have a government job, you have a supervisor. And the person that makes the rules for Region 8 is in Texas. First Cherokee NF, then George Washington NF added those new rules about geocaching. It's a trickle down effect, I remember when the link took you to a blank page last summer. This is nothing new, it's been discussed here in the forums in several threads. Just like the mass archival of geocaches in I forget which State by the DC&R. Geocaching is still allowed, everyone just had to start over after Groundspeak was forced to archive the listings that now require permits. I have permits on file in Virginia State Parks that are good for three years, but there is no fee, and can be renewed. Cache impact determins if the listings need moved or not, and Virginia State Parks has it's own geocaching program. Tennessee State Parks have banned any new geocache placements, and assigned a person in Nashville that you have to request permission from. It only took me a year and six months to get permission for a EarthCache, then GSA could approve it. What really sucks is there are listed Waymarks at the exact location that require no permission. Remember the excuse to not allow virtuals because land managers would likely favor them over a ammo can hidden just off a hiking trail in the woods? Well, it has happened already but everyone is not enforcing the same codes. It's the same law on the same books. Just check the box and place your caches while you can before it's too late and your local NF updates their web page, or you could contact the person in charge of Region 8 in Texas and ask for permission.

One way that I have got listings approved close NFS property is that I'm a waymarker that lists NFS pipe cap property markers, and most cemeterys in NFS property are not owned or governed by the NFS.

[+Road Rabbit]

I would never pay a fee! Please use your negotiation skills and talk them out of that. If that doesnt work, I would not place a cache, just to make a my point of view clear. It may help to state the non-commercial aspect of the game. At least you dont make money or provide organized tours (or do you?).

 

A park is for recreation, geocaching fits in that scope and if they dont get along with public usage of the park (including some side effects not only restricted to geocaching), they should close it for the general public.

 

Just make sure you create a cache that doesnt invite to excesses, in other words: make a good cache.

 

Geocaching should not become a business model for land owners AND not a suspected dangerous activity. In the given case its now your responsibility to represent the GC community in a "professional" manner. Good luck!

 

Ah! That means talking to more people!

 

I kid. Thanks for the advice. My "parks guy" is out tomorrow, but I'll talk to him on Monday. I'll mention that I'll make no money from this, and that this isn't commercial and will really just be people walking the trails. I'll also offer to talk to the higher ups and find out the reasoning for the fee. That might give me an idea of the concerns. They might think I'm making money off of this.

 

As far as a good cache... I hope it's a good cache! I've put a lot of time into it and spent a lot of time surfing these forums about cool caches and creating good quality caches. It's a series for families, so it'll be easy finds, but fun containers (that are waterproof, I swear!). I've got the hiding spots picked and everything. I'm just waiting on permission.

While you're discussing the proposed fee, you might inquire if they have any other recreation specific fees: hiking, cycling, frisbee, birdwatching, etc. It seems that these activities might also take people into the park and are just as likely to cause wear & tear to the area. Why should geocaching be treated any differently? Especially when with a permit, they can actually know the person responsible for upkeep on the cache.

[+hzoi]

The oddest thing about the National Forest fees is that, unless the forest has found some exemption from the miscellaneous receipts act, the money doesn't even go back to the USFS, it goes into Uncle Sam's general coffers. If it went directly back to the region, well and good, but they probably incur even more expenses by charging a fee.

 

Then again, since I imagine the fee weeds out most geocachers, it's serving another purpose besides raising revenue, that is, not having to worry about caches in the first place...

[+Shop99er]

It's their park, so it's their rules. I can only suppose that any other parks in the same system (County, State, etc) would also charge a fee per cache.

 

Folks bellowing how they (the park) can't charge a fee are most likely not aware of the local laws in your area. A law here in Washington State probably won't apply to you, why would the laws from anywhere else.

 

The "we have a right" crowd are the ones that tend to get Geocaching in trouble. It's a public park isn't necessarily a good line to use. The park managers have to answer to their bosses, who might not really care if someone wants to play a (hopefully) harmless game in their park.

 

If talking to them doesn't help, and I doubt it will, move on. There doesn't have to be a cache in every park on the planet.

[+terrkan78]

Then again, since I imagine the fee weeds out most geocachers, it's serving another purpose besides raising revenue, that is, not having to worry about caches in the first place...

Yes, I bet that's a big part of it right there.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Then again, since I imagine the fee weeds out most geocachers, it's serving another purpose besides raising revenue, that is, not having to worry about caches in the first place...

Yes, I bet that's a big part of it right there.

 

I think this is the point. They want it to be a little more difficult to place a cache. Those who are willing to take the time to fill out a form and pay a fee will be more likely to do a proper job of looking after the cache.

[Clan Riffster]

How about $59 per year to place a geocache in a National Forest after the permit has been screened twice? http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cherokee/recreation/otheractivities/?recid=34864&actid=103

 

Ooh, that's bad. At least it's a regional policy (and not in my area).

Yes, Region 8 only includes 13 States from Texas to Virginia. Too bad for us, lucky you.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Map+of+Us+Forest+Regions&id=9C25982D1446CAB74D793FCD6F6A9F4BC6B3FBBA&FORM=IQFRBA

You'll note that, though Region 8 does include Florida, the $59 fee does not apply to our National Forests.

One well worded email, to the very top of the food chain, and a couple follow ups to lesser bureaucrats, resolved that one.

[+cerberus1]

Our State parks, run by the DCNR (Dept of Conservation and Natural Resources) have a permit fee of $25. good for three years.

After three years, you have to remove your cache, "so the site can be restored to its original condition".

 

Some Park managers say that they'll wave the fee for volunteering time in the park. Some it's pay the fee and that's that.

- We CITO as we cache. Isn't that "volunteering" enough? Guess not (we've tried that).

 

What bugs me the most by this is that rangers, using their own caching name place hides in their own park.

Think they pay the fee?

 

Some State parks sponsor their own "caching tours" that they've created for visitors, with some even loaning out GPSrs.

- That's a good thing.

 

Our State forests (also run by DCNR) don't require a fee, but still have the permit system in place with the three year limit.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Part of any park management's job is to attract visitors. They spend money to do that. Whether they know what it costs them to attract a visitor or not, it does.

 

Tell them you will attract visitors to their park for free. Tell them to look at what they spend to attract each guest. You are saving them money.

 

Heck, they should be paying YOU! Tell them you will charge them $1. per log signature for every guest you attract to their park with your cache!

(kidding, but fun to think about!)

Edited April 6, 2013 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+Mockingbird559]

"Containers must be permanently marked with the Holder’s permit ID, Name, address, and telephone number."

 

Two screening levels before submitting .... ?? Which two levels? How many levels are there? (Never mind, I don't want to know.)

 

I found the forms...

 

Not too bad, only six pages...

Form SF 299

 

this one is 19 pages:

form FS 2700-5

 

but you can hide a Virtual without authorization, so go ahead with that. (edited to add: Yes I know they have not been allowed for several years)

 

Cache Happy

Edited April 6, 2013 by Mockingbird559

[+MartyBartfast]

 

but you can hide a Virtual without authorization, so go ahead with that.

 

Groundspeak doesn't allow new Virtuals to be placed though.

[+Mockingbird559]

 

but you can hide a Virtual without authorization, so go ahead with that.

 

Groundspeak doesn't allow new Virtuals to be placed though.

 

That was my point

[AZcachemeister]

 

but you can hide a Virtual without authorization, so go ahead with that.

 

Groundspeak doesn't allow new Virtuals to be placed though.

 

That was my point

 

But, you can put in all the waymarks you want to.

 

Which in my case would be zero, but YMMV.

[+ShaunEM]

Is it a public park? If it is, I would have just placed it and they would have never known.

Now that there is a SUPER answer.

 

Probably about one of the best ways to have geocaching banned somewhere altogether.

 

If the parks dept. are seeing it as a cache grab then perhaps caches should be banned there anyhow.

 

Shaun

Edited April 6, 2013 by ShaunEM

[+Manville Possum]

How about $59 per year to place a geocache in a National Forest after the permit has been screened twice? http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cherokee/recreation/otheractivities/?recid=34864&actid=103

 

Ooh, that's bad. At least it's a regional policy (and not in my area).

Yes, Region 8 only includes 13 States from Texas to Virginia. Too bad for us, lucky you.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Map+of+Us+Forest+Regions&id=9C25982D1446CAB74D793FCD6F6A9F4BC6B3FBBA&FORM=IQFRBA

You'll note that, though Region 8 does include Florida, the $59 fee does not apply to our National Forests.

One well worded email, to the very top of the food chain, and a couple follow ups to lesser bureaucrats, resolved that one.

That is good to know. Maybe it's worth a try again in our area. I thought the local group had started at the head of the stream. I may have been misinformed. I did contact the local office to get a EarthCache approved in JNF, and that's where I was informed that physical geocaches are considered unattended property, or trash, and are not permitted. I'm not part of the local group that joined in with the tree hugger rally in High Knob. Maybe someone else can give it a try. I enjoy finding geocaches in the NF, but I'm not interested in placing any more. There was one contact here in another thread that may be able to help, at least said to contact them if anyone had problems, but I can't remember the users mame. Thanks for the info.

[+ras_oscar]

That is good to know. Maybe it's worth a try again in our area. I thought the local group had started at the head of the stream. I may have been misinformed. I did contact the local office to get a EarthCache approved in JNF, and that's where I was informed that physical geocaches are considered unattended property, or trash, and are not permitted. I'm not part of the local group that joined in with the tree hugger rally in High Knob. Maybe someone else can give it a try. I enjoy finding geocaches in the NF, but I'm not interested in placing any more. There was one contact here in another thread that may be able to help, at least said to contact them if anyone had problems, but I can't remember the users mame. Thanks for the info.

 

Unattended property, huh? sounds like they don't know what to do with geocaching and are resorting to twisting a regulation that was written for another purpose (for instance giving them the right to remove an abandoned car from the parking lot) I assume they have been made aware that geocachers will be visiting the "facility" regularly, like an interpretive sign? We both know they don't remove those. Do they allow Eagle Scout projects to be donated to their park? You need to move them to an existing policy that allows "property" or "facities" to be left in the park.

[+OZ2CPU]

geocaches attract people,

if a geocache is inside a park, and there is a park fee to enter, the park dudes makes money from the extra visits,

we did pay a few times to get into parks in Florida, just to find a few caches,

so if you create alot of really good caches, they could generate hundredes of extra visitors pr year,

so the caches pays for them self,

they should pay YOU to put them there, if you look at the math.

[+hzoi]

How about $59 per year to place a geocache in a National Forest after the permit has been screened twice? http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/cherokee/recreation/otheractivities/?recid=34864&actid=103

 

Ooh, that's bad. At least it's a regional policy (and not in my area).

Yes, Region 8 only includes 13 States from Texas to Virginia. Too bad for us, lucky you.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Map+of+Us+Forest+Regions&id=9C25982D1446CAB74D793FCD6F6A9F4BC6B3FBBA&FORM=IQFRBA

You'll note that, though Region 8 does include Florida, the $59 fee does not apply to our National Forests.

One well worded email, to the very top of the food chain, and a couple follow ups to lesser bureaucrats, resolved that one.

Excellent. Five points to Riffsterdor.

 

Side note -- interestingly, either this also does not apply to Alabama forests (also in region 8), or the foresters around here don't care. (Or have never heard of geocaching, but I think that's highly unlikely.)

[+bflentje]

I would accept completing a form. But the first time any of the municipalities local to me require a fee is when I take my toys home and find something else to do.

[+JKMonkey]

I know that in Pennsylvania, in order to place a cache in a State Park, you need to purchase a permit from the State Parks Service that costs about $150, which I thought was kind of outrageous until I found out that you can also get the permit by providing eight hours of service for the Parks Service, which is pretty neat and something I'll probably look into this Summer.

[+cerberus1]

I know that in Pennsylvania, in order to place a cache in a State Park, you need to purchase a permit from the State Parks Service that costs about $150, which I thought was kind of outrageous until I found out that you can also get the permit by providing eight hours of service for the Parks Service, which is pretty neat and something I'll probably look into this Summer.

$25. , not $150.

If that's changed since the 5th (post #36), please send a link.

[+JKMonkey]

I know that in Pennsylvania, in order to place a cache in a State Park, you need to purchase a permit from the State Parks Service that costs about $150, which I thought was kind of outrageous until I found out that you can also get the permit by providing eight hours of service for the Parks Service, which is pretty neat and something I'll probably look into this Summer.

$25. , not $150.

If that's changed since the 5th (post #36), please send a link.

 

wow, the last time i heard about it about six or so months ago it was $150, they must have really dropped the price