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Wondering if soon Geocaching may have to resort to all paying members only, to discourage what has been a series of Muggling. or I should say Serial Muggling.... since one has to be a FREE registered member to see the coords, it can't just be your passer surfer. we been experiencing a high volume of caches dissappearing. they are hidden well. at first I thought, someone was figuring the locations by the hints, so I eliminated them. some were heavy ammo cans, no raccoon has carried it off. and the other day, I had two at the same park, both, go MIA. not just DNF..left behind was just the log book, with a not so nice note left behind. I doubt if anyone is following geocachers around in the woods, as per the many parks I have been having this happen, they must be getting the coords, which means, they must be a trusted member to play by the rules. unfortunately, premium membership, reduces the number of Finders, but does protect the coords, from just anyone who may have freebee joined with malicious intent. sad. I was just wondering, just how many others are experiencing this, as Geocaching has grown in the public eye and if often featured in articles and on television, if mugglers are catching on, and have found a mean way, to play a game with our caches? many parks do not permit premium caches, and that also limits where you can hide them. so I am curious, A. how wide spread is the problem? and B. what can we do about it? besides a Premium fee? sadly this is taking the fun out of the game, and becoming an expense to keep replacing. of course I change the locations, to prevent repeat muggling, but it doesn't take long before another has dissappeared. welcoming CO's inputs. thanks

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A. how wide spread is the problem?

Not as widespread as you may think. I live in a very cache-dense area, and in my 4 years playing this game I can only think of a couple of people who signed up solely to muggle caches. The most recent only muggled two caches in two days before getting bored and moving on.

 

B. what can we do about it?

Ignore them. Don't give them the attention they're craving. Don't post notes on your caches espousing your hatred of them. In fact, don't mention them at all. If a cache goes missing, even if you suspect this person muggled it, just disable it with the note "Disabling for maintenance" or something similarly non-descriptive. You may also want to leave your muggled caches disabled and not replace them for a couple of weeks, because the muggle will likely get bored and give up in that time. If they don't, then the next step would be to make them Premium, as you mentioned. Don't worry, these "cache-maggots", as AZcachemeister so eloquently put it, almost never last long-term. You just have to weather the brief storm and then it's clear sailing.

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This has been going on since well before I started.

Though it's been blamed on the phone users, some who play for a week or two than leave, all of the (caught) cache maggots in my area have been premium members.

Making hides premium is no guarantee of anything other than it won't be visited as often.

Just a few weeks ago, one complained that all his ammo can hides came up missing.

- Turned out he stated what they were on the cache page, saving the cache creep a few trips.

 

The way this hobby has taken off, especially with phone apps, I believe it's the number of cachers now that make this problem more apparent than years earlier.

 

If eventually all members will, or have to, become premium, PMO hides that some believe helps with thievery would no longer matter.

I like that.

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You would also need to look at the downside. If all caches become premium, you are less likely to get new cachers interested, including the non-ripping serious ones.

By the way, let's call things by their name. People who steal or destroy cachers are not mugglers, they are rippers. The first name would suggest that only newbies do this and I'm pretty sure that some premium members are guilty of this too.

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This has been going on since well before I started.

Though it's been blamed on the phone users, some who play for a week or two than leave, all of the (caught) cache maggots in my area have been premium members.

Making hides premium is no guarantee of anything other than it won't be visited as often.

Just a few weeks ago, one complained that all his ammo can hides came up missing.

- Turned out he stated what they were on the cache page, saving the cache creep a few trips.

 

The way this hobby has taken off, especially with phone apps, I believe it's the number of cachers now that make this problem more apparent than years earlier.

 

If eventually all members will, or have to, become premium, PMO hides that some believe helps with thievery would no longer matter.

I like that.

I did see the increase when the phone apps became more common, and many short timers like new couples geocaching together. When they break-up, we end up with abandoned listings. I also know some very good smart phone cachers that are very productive members of the geocaching community here.

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Don't worry, these "cache-maggots", as AZcachemeister so eloquently put it, almost never last long-term.

As a forum veteran, AZcachemeister likely remembers that it was the legendary Renegade Knight who first coined and championed the term "Cache Maggot," beginning in January 2004, to describe this behavior. This is not a new problem. Notably, the people complaining about cache maggots in 2013 are different than the people who complained in 2003.

 

The upstate New York cache maggot who was eventually caught and charged criminally for his actions is my nomination for "most persistent cache maggot" from the great forum threads on this subject over the years.

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Don't worry, these "cache-maggots", as AZcachemeister so eloquently put it, almost never last long-term.

As a forum veteran, AZcachemeister likely remembers that it was the legendary Renegade Knight who first coined and championed the term "Cache Maggot," beginning in January 2004, to describe this behavior. This is not a new problem. Notably, the people complaining about cache maggots in 2013 are different than the people who complained in 2003.

 

The upstate New York cache maggot who was eventually caught and charged criminally for his actions is my nomination for "most persistent cache maggot" from the great forum threads on this subject over the years.

 

Well, at least now Scubasonic isn't the only person that thinks Geocaching.com should only offer memberships to paying members. :ph34r:

 

Paul Repak, the world's most persistant cache maggot, did indeed pay for premium memberships, probably for several years.

 

And allow me to add the obligatory muggle, not muggler, sentence. :lol: Sorry, just kiding around with all that stuff. Is this happening to other people in your area, or just your caches?

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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Some people simply like to be querulous, just to proof a point (don't ask me which point this may be). They are in almost all hobbies (remember CB radio's trigger bandits?) and even professions (I not only once had a boss just always wanting to be "opposite" just to proof he's the alpha male, even when ruining his business). Reasons may be numerous, but let a sociologist/psychologist explain this behaviour.

 

A lot of motivation for them is to be feared or somewhat famous. So first counter-strategy is to ignore them in public: no mention in logs/note/listings or local forums/talks. However, this may lead to more aggressive deeds.

 

The followup strategy is to show the inappropriateness of his/hers (most hurt egos destroying other's things are male) behaviour. Team up with other cachers, try to capture the villain and confront him/her with the social reality. Please be sure to do this in a legal way (just talk!).

 

Getting police involved may help. Geocache boxes are property of the cache owner and destroying/stealing them is illegal. The value is low, so there most probably will not grow a curt case out of it, but having a serious talk to a police officer is not everyone likes. :)

 

To get such a maggot "captured" by hard evidence helps but may be tricky. However, real geocachers are creative. Over here there is a well documented story of a TB/GC thief a group of cachers could identify by a special cache with light triggered video surveillance.

 

BTW, almost same strategies are working for bullying at school/work...and surprisingly often enough, you may find the geocache ripper is someone who gets bullied at other places himself (present or past)! Take this in mind.

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There was one in the Eastern San Diego area for a while. People were switching their caches to PM only, but it didn't help, as the maggot, who was already expending the effort to steal them, apparently thought that paying the additional fee was worth it. I don't know why the thief appears to have stopped, but it might have something to do with the local geocachers going in and placing a whole lot more caches in the target area. The thief was not only failing to diminish the number of hidden caches in the area, but the cache density was actually increasing dramatically.

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Many good Points indeed! Rippers huh??? for sure!

 

I had no choice but to upgrade to Premium.

 

there is a Ripper who is a Member,--so a ripper is a muggler who is a member-- right?

 

that is now FACT. hopefully just a Freebee, who is deliberately destroying caches, I have has 3 in a month, alone and many others before.

 

How did I come to this conclusion? Today I went to look for them. The nasty NOTE they left behind in the Location was not just scribbled in the Logbook, it was hand written on a New Index Card, in the spot where the cache was missing! Nobody was just by chance hiking with crisp note cards in thier pocket in the woods, LOL, unless they had Premeditated Intent to do this, and had Access to Coordinates.

 

I take pride in my Geocaches and try to make them extra nice, music CD's, Movies, etc... Replacing them is getting too expensive. at least I can SEE who looks up my caches now.

 

Shame many of my Finders are Freebee members. but then again about $3 a month isn't that bad. Hoping more will JOIN the Premium Plan. oh well, I'll give this a try,

 

Leave the ripped ones temp disabled for a while. then archive and just list new ones, in the 500ft area reserved for that Cache Location.

 

Thanks for all the Good Advice! LMJ

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There was one in the Eastern San Diego area for a while. People were switching their caches to PM only, but it didn't help, as the maggot, who was already expending the effort to steal them, apparently thought that paying the additional fee was worth it. I don't know why the thief appears to have stopped, but it might have something to do with the local geocachers going in and placing a whole lot more caches in the target area. The thief was not only failing to diminish the number of hidden caches in the area, but the cache density was actually increasing dramatically.

but as a premium member you can then eliminate who was looking at your listing, who actually logged it as a find and who viewed it but did NOT log it as a find, right, but then again as I fear, they may have already mass downloaded coords and to save your previous listings that were under free membership, so to protect all you have out there, you then must MOVE them all, relist new coords, under the Premium Membership, thus messing up thier game plan, right????

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Getting police involved may help. Geocache boxes are property of the cache owner and destroying/stealing them is illegal. The value is low, so there most probably will not grow a curt case out of it, but having a serious talk to a police officer is not everyone likes. :)

 

To get such a maggot "captured" by hard evidence helps but may be tricky. However, real geocachers are creative. Over here there is a well documented story of a TB/GC thief a group of cachers could identify by a special cache with light triggered video surveillance.

 

I thought about this but for another reason. as mine was leaving very nasty pre handwritten index cards in the spot, what if they start putting HARMFUL items, that could injure, or drugs in our containers? I check often but you can't every day. so I figure a police report may not catch them but will be a first step, incase these rippers turn into some kind of dangerous geo terrorists and plan to harm others, innocent cachers, by making our geocaches a booby trap as some kind of sick prank? ya know? scary thought and would then be the motivation for grounspeak to make geocaching paying membership only so we can TRACK, who's been to our Listings, but has not logged a Find, before the unfortunate event happens.

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** Is this happening to other people in your area, or just your caches?

 

I don't know about everyone else, but I did post a query to my Local geoforum. Geochums, in Ohio. USA just to see, if anyone else in this area is also experiencing a high volume of theft, aka Ripping or to determine if I, ( or anyone else who is experiencing this)or can determine if it is indeed, a member who has a personal vendetta, of some kind. so many troubled people out there. I tired to narrrow down any possibilities and there was only one geo member who would always have something negative to say in thier logs about my caches, but has stopped caching 2 years ago according to thier logs. so for now, I know of no disgruntled geo members. but that is a good point.

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You would also need to look at the downside. If all caches become premium, you are less likely to get new cachers interested, including the non-ripping serious ones.

By the way, let's call things by their name. People who steal or destroy cachers are not mugglers, they are rippers. The first name would suggest that only newbies do this and I'm pretty sure that some premium members are guilty of this too.

LOL..... I thought Mugglers were just Hikers we were NOT any type of Mmember who just happened to find a cache while hiking, like kids.... and destroy it. so Rippers are Members who destroy ot steal caches, so what do we call Rippers who do things to our caches to make them dangerous? geo-terrorists?

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but as a premium member you can then eliminate who was looking at your listing, who actually logged it as a find and who viewed it but did NOT log it as a find, right....

 

No, not right. There are other ways to download coordinates without looking at the cache page. There's no guarantee, also, that the maggot didn't claim a find at some point in the past. It could be a little of both.

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but as a premium member you can then eliminate who was looking at your listing, who actually logged it as a find and who viewed it but did NOT log it as a find, right, but then again as I fear, they may have already mass downloaded coords and to save your previous listings that were under free membership, so to protect all you have out there, you then must MOVE them all, relist new coords, under the Premium Membership, thus messing up thier game plan, right????

The audit log is useless for this purpose, it can be circumvented in several ways (apps, PQs, ...).

 

edit: nonaeroterraqueous beat me to it.

Edited by Rebore
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Hard evidence is NOT determined by audit logs. POM caches dont help against a motivated cache maggot.

 

Get organized with other cachers, thats the best advice I can give to you. It will not only make the capture easier but proves that the GC society works and the ripper is really on the wrong side.

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A bit OT, but can someone please explain the use of the word “ripper” in this context?

The standard (dictionary) meanings I can find for “ripper” are either “a tool that is used to tear or break something” or “a murderer who mutilates victims' bodies.”

Here where I live (Australia) it is also used as a slang term for “an excellent person or thing”, for example “It was a ripper party!”.

However in this thread it seems to be used as a synonym for “thief”. Where is this usage from?

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A bit OT, but can someone please explain the use of the word “ripper” in this context?

 

I think they're using it as a variant of rip-off.

 

rip off

vb

1. (tr) to tear violently or roughly (from)

2. (adverb) Slang to steal from or cheat (someone)

n rip-off

1. Slang an article or articles stolen

2. Slang a grossly overpriced article

3. Slang the act of stealing or cheating

 

The standard slang in geocaching has always been cache maggot to describe a member who routinely steals geocaches. I think we should just stick with that term.

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A bit OT, but can someone please explain the use of the word “ripper” in this context?

 

I think they're using it as a variant of rip-off.

 

rip off

vb

1. (tr) to tear violently or roughly (from)

2. (adverb) Slang to steal from or cheat (someone)

n rip-off

1. Slang an article or articles stolen

2. Slang a grossly overpriced article

3. Slang the act of stealing or cheating

 

The standard slang in geocaching has always been cache maggot to describe a member who routinely steals geocaches. I think we should just stick with that term.

 

Thanks for that explanation.

I agree that the term "cache maggot" fits perfectly!

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I am soooo glad that this doesn't happen around here (as far as I know), and it's terrible to hear of in any case. If it ever became common here, I'd have cameras out on the caches at the preserve within a day...but then, I'd only have to run over to the maintenance department and grab their motion-activated critter cameras and put them out. Is there a cheap(ish) way to put surveillance on a cache?

 

Have you thought about chaining the ammo cans in place? They could still mess with the contents, but the container might be saved...

Edited by ByronForestPreserve
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** Is this happening to other people in your area, or just your caches?

 

I don't know about everyone else, but I did post a query to my Local geoforum. Geochums, in Ohio. USA just to see, if anyone else in this area is also experiencing a high volume of theft, aka Ripping or to determine if I, ( or anyone else who is experiencing this)or can determine if it is indeed, a member who has a personal vendetta, of some kind. so many troubled people out there. I tired to narrrow down any possibilities and there was only one geo member who would always have something negative to say in thier logs about my caches, but has stopped caching 2 years ago according to thier logs. so for now, I know of no disgruntled geo members. but that is a good point.

 

Sorry to hear about this. I grew-up very near you (based upon your last cache placement). Hope it ends soon.

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A bit OT, but can someone please explain the use of the word “ripper” in this context?

I've never heard the word "ripper" used in this context. To me they're just muggles who are muggling caches.

It somehow started from a post above (6 I think).

We still call 'em cache maggots or cache creeps here.

- with a few other names too...

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There was one in the Eastern San Diego area for a while. People were switching their caches to PM only, but it didn't help, as the maggot, who was already expending the effort to steal them, apparently thought that paying the additional fee was worth it. I don't know why the thief appears to have stopped, but it might have something to do with the local geocachers going in and placing a whole lot more caches in the target area. The thief was not only failing to diminish the number of hidden caches in the area, but the cache density was actually increasing dramatically.

but as a premium member you can then eliminate who was looking at your listing, who actually logged it as a find and who viewed it but did NOT log it as a find, right, but then again as I fear, they may have already mass downloaded coords and to save your previous listings that were under free membership, so to protect all you have out there, you then must MOVE them all, relist new coords, under the Premium Membership, thus messing up thier game plan, right????

 

Well, I look at plenty of cache pages and don't go look for the caches, or save them for later. I'd hate to be accused because I looked at the page but didn't log the cache.

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Well, I look at plenty of cache pages and don't go look for the caches, or save them for later. I'd hate to be accused because I looked at the page but didn't log the cache.

Sad, but the only time I've ever been harassed was over PMO hides.

I don't PQ and might look dozens of times before I decide to go.

- Some want to know why.

 

Now the only time I show on an audit is when someone here in the forums refers a cache with no warning. :lol:

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true the keeping tabs on who is viewing is not fool proof and I would never accuse anyone just based on listing viewings and logs.....but it would be a start.

 

I just don't think it would be a PM because you do have to use your real name and bank card, who would want to risk that? I would think it would most likely be a freebee member, with a fake ID and anonymous email account, to hide thier true ID, and not be tracked.

 

however, I do have thier calling card, and handwriting. well at least of this person. maybe some day I can match it up, it was very unique. and they not only left a note via index card, as an intentional message drop, as I went thru the log book in the back they did "sign it" a vulgar username that does not exist. handwriting matches exactly. if they were a legit cacher gone bad, I can look thru old logbooks match it up.

 

if no one else in the area, and I am going to check logs of other caches in close areas to see if they are showing cache destruction, if not then I can assume I was targeted, for some reason.

 

why go after my 4 caches in 3 parks when there are many caches in those same parks?

 

the only outcome, if this persists, will be less big caches, from folks who put out large containers with lots of swag. I do it for the kids. other co's will then resaturate the areas with smaller and micro caches that will have no reward for the rippers and cater more to geocachers who are after points vs families who bring thier kids to find a treasure.

 

so although the number of caches will not go down, the quality will. nothing against micro caches, I just can't see youngsters getting into looking for them. they want a treasure, a prize. they could care less about points as thier parents do.

 

as far as the advice of cameras, well unless you have Park or City permission, I imagine that would violate a number of privacy laws, unless it was on your own property.

 

any other ideas?

 

see I am a lousy "finder" of caches, LOL

I have more fun in "hiding" them.

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** Is this happening to other people in your area, or just your caches?

 

I don't know about everyone else, but I did post a query to my Local geoforum. Geochums, in Ohio. USA just to see, if anyone else in this area is also experiencing a high volume of theft, aka Ripping or to determine if I, ( or anyone else who is experiencing this)or can determine if it is indeed, a member who has a personal vendetta, of some kind. so many troubled people out there. I tired to narrrow down any possibilities and there was only one geo member who would always have something negative to say in thier logs about my caches, but has stopped caching 2 years ago according to thier logs. so for now, I know of no disgruntled geo members. but that is a good point.

 

Sorry to hear about this. I grew-up very near you (based upon your last cache placement). Hope it ends soon.

 

THANKS! I do enjoy this hobby, I have added to my every day hiking. I go to yard sales and fleamarkets to find all kinds of things for my caches. nothing more dissappointing than a near empty cache container with maybe a wet sticker and a moldy eraser in it. I have been trying to promote better quality caches in the area, and it has been catching on.

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but as a premium member you can then eliminate who was looking at your listing, who actually logged it as a find and who viewed it but did NOT log it as a find, right, but then again as I fear, they may have already mass downloaded coords and to save your previous listings that were under free membership, so to protect all you have out there, you then must MOVE them all, relist new coords, under the Premium Membership, thus messing up thier game plan, right????

The audit log is useless for this purpose, it can be circumvented in several ways (apps, PQs, ...).

 

edit: nonaeroterraqueous beat me to it.

I guess a smart Ripper has ways to disguise that. but hopefully it is just a freebee member and a PM will detour it. somewhat.

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Hard evidence is NOT determined by audit logs. POM caches dont help against a motivated cache maggot.

 

Get organized with other cachers, thats the best advice I can give to you. It will not only make the capture easier but proves that the GC society works and the ripper is really on the wrong side.

ok but how? you can't stake it out every day, cameras would violate public property privacy laws, I do not think a park would permit that, and I did not want to make the Parks think twice maybe discontinuing their geocaching permitting, by alarming them either. what would you do?

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Have you thought about chaining the ammo cans in place? They could still mess with the contents, but the container might be saved...

did the one, they broke it off somehow. so now most of my containers are no longer ammo cans. only a few and I was sure to leave that OUT of the description incase they were looking specifically for ammo cans but my last 3 were not, so that blows that theory. must just be the thrill. and I will re edit my logs to not inflate their egos, good point from a post

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There was one in the Eastern San Diego area for a while. People were switching their caches to PM only, but it didn't help, as the maggot, who was already expending the effort to steal them, apparently thought that paying the additional fee was worth it. I don't know why the thief appears to have stopped, but it might have something to do with the local geocachers going in and placing a whole lot more caches in the target area. The thief was not only failing to diminish the number of hidden caches in the area, but the cache density was actually increasing dramatically.

but as a premium member you can then eliminate who was looking at your listing, who actually logged it as a find and who viewed it but did NOT log it as a find, right, but then again as I fear, they may have already mass downloaded coords and to save your previous listings that were under free membership, so to protect all you have out there, you then must MOVE them all, relist new coords, under the Premium Membership, thus messing up thier game plan, right????

 

Well, I look at plenty of cache pages and don't go look for the caches, or save them for later. I'd hate to be accused because I looked at the page but didn't log the cache.

 

I agree. I you think that you are going to use the audit log to figure out the identity of a cache thief, you're just going to get yourself in trouble. There are plenty of reasons why I might look at a cache page but never post a found it log.

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Well, I look at plenty of cache pages and don't go look for the caches, or save them for later. I'd hate to be accused because I looked at the page but didn't log the cache.

Sad, but the only time I've ever been harassed was over PMO hides.

I don't PQ and might look dozens of times before I decide to go.

- Some want to know why.

 

Now the only time I show on an audit is when someone here in the forums refers a cache with no warning. :lol:

 

This is truly bizarre behavior. I've never experienced this type of thing, but if someone contacted me about why I was looking at their cache page, I would tell them exactly why. And, if they asked why I looked at the page but never looked for the cache, I'd tell them exactly why as well. I'm guessing in a lot of cases, they are not going to like the answer.

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This is truly bizarre behavior. I've never experienced this type of thing, but if someone contacted me about why I was looking at their cache page, I would tell them exactly why. And, if they asked why I looked at the page but never looked for the cache, I'd tell them exactly why as well. I'm guessing in a lot of cases, they are not going to like the answer.

 

a prime example of the faceless internet I guess. some folks would take offense instead of being genuine and helping out a troubled CO, trying to piece together a problem.

 

I am sure there are all kinds of legitmate reasons for not going after a cache viewed.

 

but I was referring to a Pattern. a specific pattern,

 

if a person was the last to view say 3-5 caches that dissappeared before anyone else logged it.

over a period of time.

 

what would be the chances an everyday member who likes to look and see what's new in the area,

is going to be the LAST viewer, in each case?

 

the probability would be very slim, unless they were being framed

and how would a ripper know what ones YOU looked at?

 

you have to look at the odds, but then again if somehow,

a user-ripper can view a cache invisibly or has multiple usernames,

 

which if all were PM's could be expensive,

I find those odds very unlikely.

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This is truly bizarre behavior. I've never experienced this type of thing, but if someone contacted me about why I was looking at their cache page, I would tell them exactly why. And, if they asked why I looked at the page but never looked for the cache, I'd tell them exactly why as well. I'm guessing in a lot of cases, they are not going to like the answer.

 

a prime example of the faceless internet I guess. some folks would take offense instead of being genuine and helping out a troubled CO, trying to piece together a problem.

 

I am sure there are all kinds of legitmate reasons for not going after a cache viewed.

 

but I was referring to a Pattern. a specific pattern,

 

if a person was the last to view say 3-5 caches that dissappeared before anyone else logged it.

over a period of time.

 

what would be the chances an everyday member who likes to look and see what's new in the area,

is going to be the LAST viewer, in each case?

 

the probability would be very slim, unless they were being framed

and how would a ripper know what ones YOU looked at?

 

you have to look at the odds, but then again if somehow,

a user-ripper can view a cache invisibly or has multiple usernames,

 

which if all were PM's could be expensive,

I find those odds very unlikely.

 

Probably the same chances that the last person that looked at all the caches in the area is the cache maggot. It's all pretty much random. Besides, using the method you suggest, all I have to do is find your caches, log them, then go back later and steal them some time down the road. You've built in an alibi for me.

 

I agree that most maggots are not going to pay for an account. I also agree that making your cache PMO can help with the problem. What I don't agree with is the idea that the audit log can be used in any way to identify a cache maggot. In a matter of minutes I can tell you all kinds of things about your caches and you will never see my name in the audit logs.

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Probably the same chances that the last person that looked at all the caches in the area is the cache maggot. It's all pretty much random. Besides, using the method you suggest, all I have to do is find your caches, log them, then go back later and steal them some time down the road. You've built in an alibi for me.

 

I agree that most maggots are not going to pay for an account. I also agree that making your cache PMO can help with the problem. What I don't agree with is the idea that the audit log can be used in any way to identify a cache maggot. In a matter of minutes I can tell you all kinds of things about your caches and you will never see my name in the audit logs.

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true, returning to the scene. wow what a crummy person that would be. always a bad apple somewhere. sorry geocaching has gotten so much media attention. I think we were better off without it and I think they need to develop tighter secure webpages, so there are no invisible or anonymous veiwers. but as this becomes a bigger issue, more complaints, maybe a webmaster for Groundspeak will come up with something.

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Y'all know, that one doesn't need to be PM to find out a PMO cache's coordinates? Especially if it's a traditional it's pretty easy. I'm just BM and have a PMO cache in my homezone "disturbing" my smiley map. The only thing that detains me from logging it is the fact, that it's a T5 (recently checked and spotted it, but still too high above for me...yet). :)

 

Offtopic: I have no real idea, why "PMO caches" exist anyway (from time to time I consider becoming PM, but still can't see the exchange value).

 

Regarding the term "ripper" - I read it here and then used it, thinking it fits. Since my mother tongue isn't english, I didn't pay much attention to a possible wrong usage. Sorry, I will try to stick to "cache maggot" from now on.

 

BTW, here's the story about chasing such a cache maggot in Germany, english version: sonntagsrudel.amshove.net/indexE.html

(Just for the record, I was not involved!)

 

Addendum: you're sure your cache is totally legal, with permission of the land owner and does not provoke destruction to the environment? Yes? Then OK, go, get the cache maggot!

Edited by BenOw
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what would be the chances an everyday member who likes to look and see what's new in the area,

is going to be the LAST viewer, in each case?

 

Depends on the maggot. If he's premium, then he probably already knows how to stay off of your audit list. Cachers and maggots both target all caches in a given area, so it's really not hard to see how someone else might look at all of the caches in an area just before the maggot strikes. I was the last finder on a bunch of caches that got taken, and I'm still thankful that the cache owners didn't jump to conclusions.

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what would be the chances an everyday member who likes to look and see what's new in the area,

is going to be the LAST viewer, in each case?

 

Depends on the maggot. If he's premium, then he probably already knows how to stay off of your audit list. Cachers and maggots both target all caches in a given area, so it's really not hard to see how someone else might look at all of the caches in an area just before the maggot strikes. I was the last finder on a bunch of caches that got taken, and I'm still thankful that the cache owners didn't jump to conclusions.

yeh you Do have to add the circumstances of coincidence to the deduction. YES

 

but if it happened again and again location after location, I would say YOU were being stalked or framed or otherwise.

 

LOL...one that went missing, of my own, was right after I, did a C/O check. LOL was I being watched? I was the only car in the lot, who knows...I do understand it happens.

 

now I have Just noticed, and again I won't know the reasons,and I am beginning to think some cachers have attitudes and enjoy the faceless internet too much, but since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

yeh it will be hard to put 2+2 together and be accurate. but if we were all honest and open and not so doggone offensive, like MYOB, things would be smoother and less apt to jump to conclusions DYT?

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now I have Just noticed, and again I won't know the reasons,and I am beginning to think some cachers have attitudes and enjoy the faceless internet too much, but since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

I look at the caches in my area all the time, including ones I've found already. I might be thinking about doing another by the same CO and reminding myself of his hiding "style;" I might have really enjoyed the cache and am curious to see others' logs (or the opposite); I might have dropped off someone's TB, curious if it's been picked up yet...or I could be stuck inside at work, reading cache pages for a few minute's break.

 

IMO it's more likely that an innocent cacher has looked at the cache pages recently, because someone setting out to steal them would certainly know how to cover his/her tracks.

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...since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

I do that all the time. Don't you? Once I've been to a cache and know what it's like, I like to see the responses of the people who come after me. If I really like the cache, then I like to see how others like it, too (I'm starting to feel that monologophobia, right about now). Also, I want to make sure I didn't do anything to mess it up for the next finder.

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now I have Just noticed, and again I won't know the reasons,and I am beginning to think some cachers have attitudes and enjoy the faceless internet too much, but since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

I look at the caches in my area all the time, including ones I've found already. I might be thinking about doing another by the same CO and reminding myself of his hiding "style;" I might have really enjoyed the cache and am curious to see others' logs (or the opposite); I might have dropped off someone's TB, curious if it's been picked up yet...or I could be stuck inside at work, reading cache pages for a few minute's break.

 

IMO it's more likely that an innocent cacher has looked at the cache pages recently, because someone setting out to steal them would certainly know how to cover his/her tracks.

thanks for the info, yeh TB I can see. just wondered. I know I will never catch this person. probability is highly unlikely. I have had many caches MIA before or just Vandalized. and critterized..LOL which was funny, a bite was taken out of everything.... must of been hungry!

 

this was the first time I had deliberate notes left behind and several in the same park, on the same day. usually it is just hit and miss. 2 or 3 a year. now several a month. with pre written calling cards left behind.

 

I just felt it was mean and could ruin a fun hobby that I did wish to continue, but not if it becomes more stressful than it is worth, ya know?

 

Thanks for the insight. :-)

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...since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

I do that all the time. Don't you? Once I've been to a cache and know what it's like, I like to see the responses of the people who come after me. If I really like the cache, then I like to see how others like it, too (I'm starting to feel that monologophobia, right about now). Also, I want to make sure I didn't do anything to mess it up for the next finder.

and yes I will check on logs of DNF's from me to see if it indeed WAS there and that maybe I did not look good enough....and go try again. or to see if the CO has checked on it before I try again.

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yeh you Do have to add the circumstances of coincidence to the deduction. YES

 

but if it happened again and again location after location, I would say YOU were being stalked or framed or otherwise.

 

LOL...one that went missing, of my own, was right after I, did a C/O check. LOL was I being watched? I was the only car in the lot, who knows...I do understand it happens.

 

now I have Just noticed, and again I won't know the reasons,and I am beginning to think some cachers have attitudes and enjoy the faceless internet too much, but since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

yeh it will be hard to put 2+2 together and be accurate. but if we were all honest and open and not so doggone offensive, like MYOB, things would be smoother and less apt to jump to conclusions DYT?

 

Many keep caches on watch lists for many reasons, not anything nefarious of course, but... if I see a 'watchlist note on one, I often go see what might have changed there. Sometimes it's to see if someone 'suffered' the find as much as I might have. Other times I revisit a log as a result of some post on the forums etc. Local ones it's my way of receiving 'NM' logs or viewing DNF's to see problems (I maintain a few for the CO's and don't get those notifications otherwise), I also leave a status report update note, if the CO is slow to clear a NM flag.

They are quite busy this time of year.

 

So there are many reasons to revisit cache pages... of course I don't do that for PMOCs... but I do go find them when they are placed here... just was 4TF on one near here, but couldn't get there in time to FTF due transportation and time constraints so it is possible to do so easily for many PM's. Had no problem logging it either. That CO is now determined to 'beat' me in my searches, all in good fun though.

 

Doug 7rxc

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The grandkids and I were at a local park within this past week (as mugglers) and just happened across a cache. The boy had heard of the game so we immediately went home and signed up (not so sure of this name he chose, though, is it possible to change it in the future?).

 

Since a few days ago we have had fun trying this whole thing out and locating a dozen finds in our area. Now I’m thinking this may be a great activity for me to do with them when school’s out so I came to the forum looking for advice on a GPS. (Need something user friendly and was leaning towards the Magellan eXplorist 110?)

 

Stumbled upon this topic about making it PM only? That would rule out people like me who want to try it for a while before investing any further. If it eventually does go that direction, perhaps offer a few months of free membership before requiring the PM? I wouldn't like seeing things go that way but certainly understand the concern.

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Cache-maggots have been around for some time.

Make all your caches PM, and don't feed the maggots.

It's working for me. :anibad:

 

Works for me too.

Also never, ever say you hid an ammo can even if you did. Things were bad before but with all the buying up of guns and ammo there is a big time shortage of ammo cans.

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The grandkids and I were at a local park within this past week (as mugglers) and just happened across a cache. The boy had heard of the game so we immediately went home and signed up (not so sure of this name he chose, though, is it possible to change it in the future?).

 

Since a few days ago we have had fun trying this whole thing out and locating a dozen finds in our area. Now I’m thinking this may be a great activity for me to do with them when school’s out so I came to the forum looking for advice on a GPS. (Need something user friendly and was leaning towards the Magellan eXplorist 110?)

 

Stumbled upon this topic about making it PM only? That would rule out people like me who want to try it for a while before investing any further. If it eventually does go that direction, perhaps offer a few months of free membership before requiring the PM? I wouldn't like seeing things go that way but certainly understand the concern.

 

The powers that be have previously said that it will never go to PM only. Certainly they could change their mind, but I don't expect that to happen. I think most people try it out before they spend $ on PM.

 

Welcome to the obsession! :)

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