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Glue (liquid nails) instead of nails in a tree


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Been thinking....since we aren't allowed (and shouldn't do anyways) to nail into a tree, wondering thoughts and feelings about using "Liquid nails". I know one could put rope and such around a tree, but I've got some caches I want attached to a tree, but kept very hidden. Liquid nails would likely work (I will test first). But debating if I should (for reasons I'm not considering). I'm thinking that as the tree grows, the glue would eventually fall off thereby keeping it rather healthy for the tree (but slow enough the cache hide would last a long time).

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Been thinking....since we aren't allowed (and shouldn't do anyways) to nail into a tree, wondering thoughts and feelings about using "Liquid nails". I know one could put rope and such around a tree, but I've got some caches I want attached to a tree, but kept very hidden. Liquid nails would likely work (I will test first). But debating if I should (for reasons I'm not considering). I'm thinking that as the tree grows, the glue would eventually fall off thereby keeping it rather healthy for the tree (but slow enough the cache hide would last a long time).

 

Your existence here has got to be the April Fools joke.

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Only due to some of the compositional ingredients, I wouldn't use it.

Toluene and Heptane are not materials that I would want to (knowingly) put in contact with another living organism.

 

That said, it may be fine, depending upon the bark density and thickness. So... I'm holding off and am not going to pass judgement on this matter.

 

I defer to others' comments... in other words, I'm dodging the bullet. :lol:

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Accortding to the information I found it contains materials I too wouldn't knowingly put on a living thing.

Also, the material safety data sheet says that freezing should be avoided, so unless you're in a climate that doesn't have that, I doubt your cache would last more than a year if you used it.

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The outer layers of a tree (the 'bark') are dead, and not likely to be affected by any chemical in an adhesive product.

 

Also, though, most bark has evolved to flake, peel or slough off in various ways that makes attaching something using an adhesive a very temporary solution to a problem, at best.

 

If you can't use a nail, try a screw. :ph34r:

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Seriously, if firetacks are allowed for night caches, can we use regular tacks to attach things? As AZcachemeister said, little harm can be done to the dead outer bark layer of a tree.

 

On a slightly side topic.... I was visiting our local arboretum last week and many of the trees had metal identification tags attached to them with drywall screws.

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Seriously, if firetacks are allowed for night caches, can we use regular tacks to attach things? As AZcachemeister said, little harm can be done to the dead outer bark layer of a tree.

 

On a slightly side topic.... I was visiting our local arboretum last week and many of the trees had metal identification tags attached to them with drywall screws.

I've thought about that before. Working for a forest preserve, I also know I could get permission to do nearly anything to what the restoration workers would call a "junk" tree (and heck, we have hooks screwed into many sugar maples for sap collection) but aside from being against the rules, it sets a bad precedent. I might know what would be "okay" in our preserve, but someone else would then think they could do that somewhere else, and then someone would take that idea and run with it, and sooner or later park and preserve managers would change their minds about allowing geocaches on their land.

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Seriously, if firetacks are allowed for night caches, can we use regular tacks to attach things? As AZcachemeister said, little harm can be done to the dead outer bark layer of a tree.

How many tacks does it take to hang an ammo can? :anicute:

"Regular" tacks rust. That could be problem. It would have to be a higher quality metal than standard office supply tacks. And I don't expect it would support more than the tack, if only stuck in the outer layer of bark. But I've considered a fire-tack-like fastener with a magnet to hold a micro container.

 

I was visiting our local arboretum last week and many of the trees had metal identification tags attached to them with drywall screws.

At one place around here, the signs have wood screws, and the sign is held off the bark with springs. I guess that allows the trunk to grow. More common are signs on posts in the ground next to the trees.

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Seriously, if firetacks are allowed for night caches, can we use regular tacks to attach things? As AZcachemeister said, little harm can be done to the dead outer bark layer of a tree.

 

On a slightly side topic.... I was visiting our local arboretum last week and many of the trees had metal identification tags attached to them with drywall screws.

Now seriously, the tags placed on the (selected few) trees in the arboretum were for what? Educational purposes, I would guess -- I mean that is what an arboretum is for, is it not?

 

But... some notice that, and suddenly come up with the idea that doing the same for recreational purposes would be the same.

I must ask, do you think it is the same?

I think not.

 

I will not pass judgement regarding fire tacks. I simply am not qualified to pass that judgement. Likewise regarding a singular nail placed into a tree (one owned by the hammer-wielder himself).

However, I cannot go along with equating the possible injury to a few selected trees for purposes of education to that of a growing and organized (for lack of a better term) global recreation movement of doing the same. It is nowhere near the same.

 

Am I a purist? No, most certainly not. But I do shudder at the thought regarding each of the supposed 5 million cachers worldwide placing nails or screws in trees (some multiple times) just to hang a cache(s) for "recreational purposes".

 

This isn't even considering that most of those caches would be placed on property not owned by the Cache Owner(s). I think that ever more properties would be off-limits to geocaching by now, had that practice been allowed.

 

Yeah, there is more to the picture than "just a nail in a tree". Regardless of whether it does or does not harm the tree.

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Seriously, if firetacks are allowed for night caches, can we use regular tacks to attach things? As AZcachemeister said, little harm can be done to the dead outer bark layer of a tree.

 

On a slightly side topic.... I was visiting our local arboretum last week and many of the trees had metal identification tags attached to them with drywall screws.

I've thought about that before. Working for a forest preserve, I also know I could get permission to do nearly anything to what the restoration workers would call a "junk" tree (and heck, we have hooks screwed into many sugar maples for sap collection) but aside from being against the rules, it sets a bad precedent. I might know what would be "okay" in our preserve, but someone else would then think they could do that somewhere else, and then someone would take that idea and run with it, and sooner or later park and preserve managers would change their minds about allowing geocaches on their land.

I agree, It's not just the point you may kill a living thing, but when cachers see you do it they may not care if it is a "junk" tree and claim "well he put a screw (or nail)in a tree and is allowed, well then it's ok" and then they screw or nails into living trees. As quoted by someone else "Monkey See, Monkey Do"

Edited by jellis
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caches I want attached to a tree, but kept very hidden.

 

Have you considered braided fishing line? braided line is quite strong, thin, not real visible and ages in well. Put it outside now, use it later. Of course, if you throw it over a limb and put much weight on it, it becomes a saw. A whole spool of it won't be cheap, but it's got a lot of uses. You might be able to buy/beg a length from a fisherman.

 

Liquid nails ....as the tree grows, the glue would eventually fall off thereby keeping it rather healthy for the tree (but slow enough

 

I think you'd find that the growth and bark surface shedding would likely take your glued item off in a year or less. If you've got some yard and some trees of the correct variety, worth trying.

 

Palms don't send their surface, but it's still vascular, so perhaps they'd be affected by the weird solvents in the glue. Or not, really don't know. Not much cover on a palm trunk for sure.

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Been thinking....since we aren't allowed (and shouldn't do anyways) to nail into a tree, wondering thoughts and feelings about using "Liquid nails". I know one could put rope and such around a tree, but I've got some caches I want attached to a tree, but kept very hidden. Liquid nails would likely work (I will test first). But debating if I should (for reasons I'm not considering). I'm thinking that as the tree grows, the glue would eventually fall off thereby keeping it rather healthy for the tree (but slow enough the cache hide would last a long time).

 

Would this plan include spending a night in the woods holding the cache in place until the Liquid Nail cures or would you screw it in place and come back the next day to remove the screws?

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If a park ranger can be offended by a box he finds sitting on the ground, then he's going to be even more offended by one that he can't pick up and walk away with. Of course, we assume permission, but if it were a question of permission from the land owner/manager, you would be asking that person, not us. Because you are asking us, the safest answer is that a cache is best placed in such a way that an unprepared finder can walk away with it the same time that he finds it, without having to hike back out and return with tools, and without having to trear off a piece of tree or wait for the tree to slough it off.

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I've seen "birdhouse" caches...how are those allowed? Or are they not really?

 

Surely you can devise a way of putting it on the tree without glue or nails. I ran across a VERY clever tree hide this past weekend that didn't involve just throwing the cache into a knothole or hanging it on a branch. It had some amazing camo and I only found it because I knew it HAD to be somewhere on or in a particular tree.

Edited by J Grouchy
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I've seen "birdhouse" caches...how are those allowed? Or are they not really?

We have seen a number of birdhouse (even a bat-house) caches. To date, ALL we have seen, if nailed to a tree (not all are), were on property owned by the CO (so stated on the cache page), but not necessarily at their home location.

Some were nailed to a post for that purpose, instead of a tree. True, the post placement may come into question regarding the "digging" aspect of the guidelines, but that is not part of this discussion.

The remainder have been affixed other than by nails or screws -- or even glue. Some were mounted upon pre-existing metal poles or supports for other structures.

 

It certainly appears to me that those placements would be allowable.

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I've seen "birdhouse" caches...how are those allowed? Or are they not really?

We have seen a number of birdhouse (even a bat-house) caches. To date, ALL we have seen, if nailed to a tree (not all are), were on property owned by the CO (so stated on the cache page), but not necessarily at their home location.

Some were nailed to a post for that purpose, instead of a tree. True, the post placement may come into question regarding the "digging" aspect of the guidelines, but that is not part of this discussion.

The remainder have been affixed other than by nails or screws -- or even glue. Some were mounted upon pre-existing metal poles or supports for other structures.

 

It certainly appears to me that those placements would be allowable.

 

Well, both that I have seen have been in local parks and have been on actual trees. I don't know the stories, though. For all I know they were ACTUAL functioning birdhouses that may have been abandoned and turned into caches.

 

For the post issue about burying/digging...that's a good question. While the cache itself is not buried, placement of the cache did involve some disturbing of the earth. I'd imagine as long as the property owner approved, that sort of placement would be okay since cachers would not actually be disturbing the earth any further. It also begs the question...is it okay to have a cache that mounts onto (and is removable from) a stake of some sort that is then pounded into the ground?

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If you wish to attach it to a tree in a non-intrusive manner, try an aviator clamp tightened around the tree after painting it a matching color. Aviator clamps have the advantage of being any size, because you can connect them end to end.

 

All the birdhouse caches I have seen were suspended next to a tree from string or fishing line.

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OK, lots to reply to:

 

Agree that liquid nails has some chemicals that certainly would be bad for the environment, but there is a bit of it in each of our homes, as is a ton of other chemicals. However, that isn't the same as attaching it to a tree. I agree, if just the bark, probably not an issue, but not sure it wouldn't leech into the tree anyway. Granted, the question is, does it really do harm?

 

I'm not worried about the rules as it doesn't really address screws, nails, etc. specifically. From what I see/read, it just can't harm. I know drilling wholes in trees are generally not allowed (I think dead trees are fine). I may have missed something though, seems I sometimes see people quote rules I don't find on a normal search. Besides...if PETA is OK with killing of snakes (granted it is the non-native and destructive Pythons in the everglades), I think Grounspeak would be OK with a little screwing/nailing/gluing...rule wise)

 

I posted this as a discussion and wanted to gauge general opinion and see if anyone had specific facts too. It is just an area I really had no opinion on before (I'm far from an environmentalist, but I do believe in respecting and learning about nature).

 

The actual application I thought about (not really planning specifics) was to have the glue last about six months to one year. I actually desired something that would fall off so as to have less impact to the tree than a penetrating nail or screw. I would re-apply to maintain the cache, but also should it not be maintained after a few years, it wouldn't stay and cause long term damage. That is just what my thinking, not sure it is right or wrong.

 

Fishing line and other wrapping tricks I could use in some scenarios, but I wonder if over time, they would dig into the bark/tree. In some scenarios it would be too much of a give-away. However, I likely will use it in many caches too.

 

Thanks for all the responses. Good feedback.

Edited by TheWeatherWarrior
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I'm not worried about the rules as it doesn't really address screws, nails, etc. specifically. From what I see/read, it just can't harm. I know drilling wholes in trees are generally not allowed (I think dead trees are fine). I may have missed something though, seems I sometimes see people quote rules I don't find on a normal search. Besides...if PETA is OK with killing of snakes (granted it is the non-native and destructive Pythons in the everglades), I think Grounspeak would be OK with a little screwing/nailing/gluing...rule wise)

 

 

Any hole drilled, or any nail or screw inserted into any tree is against the defacement guidelines, whether the tree is dead or alive.

 

However if it is a dead tree most will pretend to not see it and the risk is very low to having it archived. There was someone else who casually mentioned it in another thread without anyone calling it out. Your best bet would be to obtain explicit permission from the land manager and to write it on the cache page.

 

Glue would last a few weeks and come off along with the bark.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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On a slightly side topic.... I was visiting our local arboretum last week and many of the trees had metal identification tags attached to them with drywall screws.

I have found quite a few tags on Hemlocks on NFS property. We lost lots of Pines in our area to beatles, and there were similar issues with the Hemlocks. The nails the FS used looked to be stainless steel.

I have a geocache in a tree, but I used fishing line.

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Been thinking....since we aren't allowed (and shouldn't do anyways) to nail into a tree, wondering thoughts and feelings about using "Liquid nails". I know one could put rope and such around a tree, but I've got some caches I want attached to a tree, but kept very hidden. Liquid nails would likely work (I will test first). But debating if I should (for reasons I'm not considering). I'm thinking that as the tree grows, the glue would eventually fall off thereby keeping it rather healthy for the tree (but slow enough the cache hide would last a long time).

Im sure it would be fine considering half the garbage I find out in the woods that shouldn't be there and weird stuff oil etc glue nails sounds fine

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Been thinking....since we aren't allowed (and shouldn't do anyways) to nail into a tree, wondering thoughts and feelings about using "Liquid nails". I know one could put rope and such around a tree, but I've got some caches I want attached to a tree, but kept very hidden. Liquid nails would likely work (I will test first). But debating if I should (for reasons I'm not considering). I'm thinking that as the tree grows, the glue would eventually fall off thereby keeping it rather healthy for the tree (but slow enough the cache hide would last a long time).

Im sure it would be fine considering half the garbage I find out in the woods that shouldn't be there and weird stuff oil etc glue nails sounds fine

 

Just because you've found garbage doesn't mean you have open license to nail anything to a tree. I've found couches in the woods, doesn't mean I can leave a dining room set right next to it.

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My final comment; if you'll pardon the pun, you're missing the forest for the trees. One of the reasons Groundspeak publishes geocache guidelines is to promote responsible use of the property of others by geocachers. If I'm a newbie excited to publish my first cache and my first 40 finds all use nails or screws pounded into a tree, I'll assume thats ok and the technique will be propogated.

 

I could probably find a botany manual that describes certain species of tree that will not be harmed by that type of treatment. However, its still against the guidelines, and more importantly beside the point. There are species of trees that can and are harmed by pointy things forced into them. It would be a shame if a newbie's first hide (correctly formed in compliance with the guidelines) was refused by a land owner that had a tree damaged by another geocache in violation of the Guidelines. As a responsible finder its up to me to gently remind the CO that their hide is in violation of the guidelines. Not for me, or for the CO but for the game at large.

 

When one of us damages the environment it's a stain on the reputation of thousands of other cachers that hide in a respectful and responsible manner. That's the real damage that's caused by nails and screws in trees.

 

I now return the soap box to its rightful owner.

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Besides...if PETA is OK with killing of snakes (granted it is the non-native and destructive Pythons in the everglades), I think Grounspeak would be OK with a little screwing/nailing/gluing...rule wise)

Must say... that's a pretty good stretch there... comparing and equating Groundspeak with PETA.

 

Sort of like doing the same with Lincoln and Hitler, what?

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Any hole drilled, or any nail or screw inserted into any tree is against the defacement guidelines, whether the tree is dead or alive.

 

However if it is a dead tree most will pretend to not see it and the risk is very low to having it archived. There was someone else who casually mentioned it in another thread without anyone calling it out. Your best bet would be to obtain explicit permission from the land manager and to write it on the cache page.

 

Glue would last a few weeks and come off along with the bark.

I haven't found anything specific for the "defacement guidelines" so if you have a link, that would be great.

 

As far as dead trees...I've had two reviewers say that sawing/drilling dead trees is fine....because they are DEAD.

Edited by TheWeatherWarrior
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Besides...if PETA is OK with killing of snakes (granted it is the non-native and destructive Pythons in the everglades), I think Grounspeak would be OK with a little screwing/nailing/gluing...rule wise)

Must say... that's a pretty good stretch there... comparing and equating Groundspeak with PETA.

 

Sort of like doing the same with Lincoln and Hitler, what?

I'm not saying they are the same....I'm saying PETA as extreme as they are flexible at times....so I'd think GS would be flexible too. Bringing Hitler and Lincoln as zero relevance really. Edited by TheWeatherWarrior
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...if PETA is OK with killing of snakes (granted it is the non-native and destructive Pythons in the everglades), I think Grounspeak would be OK with a little screwing/nailing/gluing...rule wise)

 

Groundspeak's guideline has little to do with the protection of the tree as a living organism and more to do with destruction of property and impression it makes to new cachers and non-cachers. In much the same way, Groundspeak is not concerned for the safety and well being of dirt but has a no-digging policy.

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Any hole drilled, or any nail or screw inserted into any tree is against the defacement guidelines, whether the tree is dead or alive.

 

However if it is a dead tree most will pretend to not see it and the risk is very low to having it archived. There was someone else who casually mentioned it in another thread without anyone calling it out. Your best bet would be to obtain explicit permission from the land manager and to write it on the cache page.

 

Glue would last a few weeks and come off along with the bark.

I haven't found anything specific for the "defacement guidelines" so if you have a link, that would be great.

 

As far as dead trees...I've had two reviewers say that sawing/drilling dead trees is fine....because they are DEAD.

 

I know this is a silly question, but have you discussed your plans with the landowner?

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Any hole drilled, or any nail or screw inserted into any tree is against the defacement guidelines, whether the tree is dead or alive.

 

However if it is a dead tree most will pretend to not see it and the risk is very low to having it archived. There was someone else who casually mentioned it in another thread without anyone calling it out. Your best bet would be to obtain explicit permission from the land manager and to write it on the cache page.

 

Glue would last a few weeks and come off along with the bark.

I haven't found anything specific for the "defacement guidelines" so if you have a link, that would be great.

 

As far as dead trees...I've had two reviewers say that sawing/drilling dead trees is fine....because they are DEAD.

 

Look a little closer: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Geocache placements do not damage, deface or destroy public or private property.

Caches are placed so that the surrounding environment, whether natural or human-made, is safe from intentional or unintentional harm. Property must not be damaged or altered to provide a hiding place, clue, or means of logging a find.

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Any hole drilled, or any nail or screw inserted into any tree is against the defacement guidelines, whether the tree is dead or alive.

 

However if it is a dead tree most will pretend to not see it and the risk is very low to having it archived. There was someone else who casually mentioned it in another thread without anyone calling it out. Your best bet would be to obtain explicit permission from the land manager and to write it on the cache page.

 

Glue would last a few weeks and come off along with the bark.

I haven't found anything specific for the "defacement guidelines" so if you have a link, that would be great.

 

As far as dead trees...I've had two reviewers say that sawing/drilling dead trees is fine....because they are DEAD.

 

I'd say it was fine also, but I also know of at least two reviewers who will archive such hides. More than a few have read this thread, but they probably will not reply because the answer is unpopular.

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I roped one once then I realized an animal could get caught up in it and then I would be endangering wildlife, which would not be looked at too fondly, I think causing any kind of physical harm to, or creating a potentionally dangerous element to wildlife, just as digging is not allowed, will cause more caches to be banned from parks. we should not press our luck, so to speak. we have a few park systems here now, having a bad reaction to a disrespectful CO experiences and now we cannot geocache there any more. I'd say tread lightly, leave nature undisturbed the least amount possible. some parks here are even making our guidleines so tight, to prevent wear, such as no more than 3 feet from trail, and only one year, per permit, because of bad apple CO's.

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I know this is a silly question, but have you discussed your plans with the landowner?

Not a silly question. I don't have any specific sites in mind, I have theories at this point, but I'm thinking more about hiding ways and getting more creative with what I do. I have a ton of other hiding stuff I'm planning, but this one aspect was one I wanted more opinions on. Mostly it seems it isn't cool. I may do it with very limited situations, but I'm first gonna look for alternatives first. As the thread discussion continues, others might have some more tips.

 

I had read the link you provided. But those were vague, not specific. I was thinking (still am actually, even though, as said, I'll try other things, that the glue (liquid nails) is similar to (generally) to rope, twine, fishing line, etc. However, the toxic aspect maybe more than I thought. What some people say is "defacing" isn't the same as what others think. Grounspeak is VERY vague with standards like that in many, many areas.

Edited by TheWeatherWarrior
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The idea of it sounds invasive to me, meaning -- somewhat rude to the tree. One thinks of glue as a bonding agent, cementing things together. WHether the glue would fall off eventually doesn't seem relevant -- rather what seems relevant is the image of the live being having something glued to it. That doesn't seem right. Rope and wire don't bind something to the being itself.

 

I encourage creativity in planning hides --

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I once planned to attach a cache to a tree, too. And did a lot of research! Some things I found out:

  • A tree is not just a plant, but usually serves some long term financial business purposes (long term often is >20 years). A single tree is worth >100$, sometimes >1000$ and special trees/wood even much much more. Not a thing some serious land owner will be discuss long when some random cacher thinks it's a good idea to harm his income by using "just" one such tree for his leisure sport - which includes hiding a cache as well as climbing it leaving damage or else.
  • Damage may include holes drilled/screwed/nailed, change in wood color due to injuries, dying trees due to injuries (uncommon, but maybe, probably by infection/bug entry) and the nail/screw or even the cache box alone itself - see next points.
  • Next step in wood production after the tree grew is chopping it. Modern industrial heavy duty automatic chopping robots will not have an issue with some little nail, a string of metal which flies around in splinters or a lot of sharp plastic by a shreddered cache box - a single lumberman with a chain saw may: damaging the saw or endangering the person by unexpected flying sharp and pointy things.
  • A saw mill is a serious business, too. The customer (tree owner) has to guarantee wood that doesn't damage the saw and may be liable if there is a large nail or something else in it. To ensure safety modern saw mills run the wood through a metal detector and sort them out, automatically, if they detect metal. Any nail, screw, pin and even other metal (i.e. the ammo box or simply the geocoin in the container still lurking in a hole) is enough to get detected. Then either someone has manually scan the tree again (costy!) or the tree gets thrown out (even more costy!).
  • If anything already is attached to trees in that wood (bird houses, signs), that does not imply that anyone else can attach things to trees. Those trees are selected, the (legal) attachments are with permission of the owner, some (as Waymarking signs) sometimes are required by law and the owner has to "give" a tree. Those known attachments can be removed before processing the trees (remember: maybe in 10 or 20 years!). So, it's always an individual consideration between harm and benefit - nothing of that legalizes other attachments per se.
  • Slings around branches or the tree itself are not a good idea either: trees grow and will be hurt by slings too tight and cutting the bark, animals will get caught in lines, slings even may influence the following production process (see above).
  • Even dead wood is important for the forest business and often required to be in the state it is, intentionally left there. Maybe as a home to rare insects, kind of fertilizer/mulch or else.
  • Accessibility is another thing, including possible destroying surrounding environment or disturbing animals. Be aware of that, the cache owner is the one setting the target and the difficulty, resulting in all kinds of random people trying to get the statistic point with all kinds of equipment (including bad GPS coverage). Is the area ready for this? What could be damaged more than by the usual hiker? Animals get used to human day/night activity, so it's even a real difference between a well traveled hiking trail at day and a night cacher team just doing the game after working hours.
  • More generally, all things that may lead to disrespect floral and animal life is bad. This includes setting up a fake bird house. Why? First: is it really sure that a real bird can tell the difference? Second: do you really want visiting cachers look up every bird house in that area (or in other areas after they found yours) just because there could be a cache? How do you explain that to the birds who need those houses to grow up their breed? Same is true with buried things (do you really want the public to think geocaching is about digging around?) and other kinds of hides - but that wasn't asked here.

Generally it's not only some grumpy tree huggers thing, maintaining a forest is a tough business in a huge market, worth a lot of money. No wonder a land owner/user will get angry when some funny people endanger HIS income and/or the property he is responsible for.

 

This said, it still may be that the forest owner allows hiding a cache including tree attachment when it is done reasonable for him. This requires asking!

Then he can even give advice how to attach. There are even special nails and yes, there are special glues not harming a tree too much. Or he can point out trees where it doesn't matter.

 

I hope, this may hinder you (generally "you") from simply throwing a box in the forest even if that includes a very intelligent and funky hide. Please think twice and don't realize it, if it can do any harm - even if it would be the coolest cache nationwide forever. Better be real creative and find a solution who others (people, animals and plants) can live with, too. This does not neccessary result in a boring cache. If so, you're not creative enough. :)

 

After I considered the things above, I decided all fancy stuff for my hide won't meet the criteria. So I invented another hide, which takes all of above in count and is well accepted by the finders. It even stands out of the usual hides here, allthough it surely won't make it in the top ten list of creative caches worldwide. On the other hand, show me this list, and I may point out several very bad caches in terms of environment protection.

 

Good luck with your cache!

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If a park ranger can be offended by a box he finds sitting on the ground, then he's going to be even more offended by one that he can't pick up and walk away with. Of course, we assume permission, but if it were a question of permission from the land owner/manager, you would be asking that person, not us. Because you are asking us, the safest answer is that a cache is best placed in such a way that an unprepared finder can walk away with it the same time that he finds it, without having to hike back out and return with tools, and without having to trear off a piece of tree or wait for the tree to slough it off.

Many of our neighboring county FP's have rules that do not allow any attachments at all to any vegetation. That rules out a lot of hiding styles. I'm sure that they got to those rules after finding caches screwed into live trees, ammo cans chained to trees, tie wraps or wire choking limb growth, etc.

 

I'm not a purist, but I can easily see why the FP managers get over-protective when it comes to geocache rules. The county I live in is one of the most restrictive in the area. :(

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So as i read through these, alot of you put out very valid arguements on both side, I got a solution for you!

 

Natural adhesives? If absolutely necessary to use. I.E. Sap etc etc. I guarentee a quick google search would help you hone in on the specific type you need to accomplish your goals... If its all natural, natural degredation will occur if as it was said further up about being aq good idea to "fall off" and/or require" Maintenance" and if it is natural, what could the possible Adverse affects be?.

 

My two cents :P

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I'm not a purist, but I can easily see why the FP managers get over-protective when it comes to geocache rules. The county I live in is one of the most restrictive in the area. :(

 

People in the low and mid levels of bureaucracies are not generally encouraged to think for themselves. They almost always look for "how we have done it before" In that case, perhaps you can get your reluctant land manager to agree to a "temporary" cache. Set it and revisit it in 3 months. Once the 3 months go by and nothing bad has happened, you stand a bgettr chance of getting it approved permanently.

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Last weekend we saw a special alley with alot of rare and old trees

clearly those trees are looked after by skilled experts to make them look good and live very long,

each tree had a metal sign with a number screwed into it, a very good and big screw was used,

I am very sure if this have any, even a slight negative effect on the bark or tree, they would no have done this.

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Last weekend we saw a special alley with alot of rare and old trees

clearly those trees are looked after by skilled experts to make them look good and live very long,

each tree had a metal sign with a number screwed into it, a very good and big screw was used,

I am very sure if this have any, even a slight negative effect on the bark or tree, they would no have done this.

Which doesn't give anyone else the right to screw something in a tree. A healthy tree in a good environment doesn't die or take much harm from a screw, but a screw at least is a risk for the financial value of the tree. When those who maintain the tree decide to screw something in, that's perfectly OK. When a random cache owner does that, it's not.

Edited by BenOw
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