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It's time to make the FTF game legit.


Roman!

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Like I said before I'm not sure this is a terrible idea. The part about the code might work but I don't see who would foot the cost of these investigations. Investigations would be extremely difficult anyway as someone could pocket the code and zip his lips and never get caught.

 

I've seen enough caches which have logs from FTF hounds, and they talk about getting to GZ and seeing other people already there searching. For people who are interested enough to rush out to caches and COs who are interested in encouraging this aspect of the game the codes might work to an extent.

 

 

And what about COs that are *not* interested in encouraging this aspect of the game? Is there going to be some sort of penalty for a CO that refuses to participate?

 

 

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Right so let me get this straight. The code can only be used once? That's your idea? What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Personally if something like this would put me off trying to get a ftf. Especially as I don't normally cache alone and that would mean a fight over who got to log it.

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Like I said before I'm not sure this is a terrible idea. The part about the code might work but I don't see who would foot the cost of these investigations. Investigations would be extremely difficult anyway as someone could pocket the code and zip his lips and never get caught.

 

I've seen enough caches which have logs from FTF hounds, and they talk about getting to GZ and seeing other people already there searching. For people who are interested enough to rush out to caches and COs who are interested in encouraging this aspect of the game the codes might work to an extent.

 

 

And what about COs that are *not* interested in encouraging this aspect of the game? Is there going to be some sort of penalty for a CO that refuses to participate?

 

I could envision a use of a code but not a mandatory use, I definitely differ with the OP on that point.

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Like I said before I'm not sure this is a terrible idea. The part about the code might work but I don't see who would foot the cost of these investigations. Investigations would be extremely difficult anyway as someone could pocket the code and zip his lips and never get caught.

 

I've seen enough caches which have logs from FTF hounds, and they talk about getting to GZ and seeing other people already there searching. For people who are interested enough to rush out to caches and COs who are interested in encouraging this aspect of the game the codes might work to an extent.

 

 

And what about COs that are *not* interested in encouraging this aspect of the game? Is there going to be some sort of penalty for a CO that refuses to participate?

 

I could envision a use of a code but not a mandatory use, I definitely differ with the OP on that point.

 

Even if wasn't mandatory (like, Groundspeak could somehow enforce this) I can just imagine all the drama when FTF hounds won't be able to obtain a FTF code they think they're entitled to on a cache because a CO refuses to participate in the FTF game.

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Right so let me get this straight. The code can only be used once? That's your idea? What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Personally if something like this would put me off trying to get a ftf. Especially as I don't normally cache alone and that would mean a fight over who got to log it.

 

Well, whoever actually finds the cache first would be FTF, I know, I know, I'm way ahead in my logical thinking.

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When a CO creates a new cache they are given an FTF code they put in the cache which a finder then logs on GC.com and is credited with the FTF. The code may only be used by one person.

 

We can the create a leader board much like cacherstats.com to see who truly is the best FTF hound, no that's my idea of fun.

I still see some abuse. Just give your friend the code and its over with. Or maybe not. :ph34r::blink::ph34r:

 

Agreed, my idea is 12 hours old, although its an awesome idea it does need some tweaking.

 

Isn't that a term used about meth-heads? They always have the best ideas.:rolleyes:

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Right so let me get this straight. The code can only be used once? That's your idea? What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Personally if something like this would put me off trying to get a ftf. Especially as I don't normally cache alone and that would mean a fight over who got to log it.

Well, whoever actually finds the cache first would be FTF, I know, I know, I'm way ahead in my logical thinking.

I agree.

Unless you all spotted and grabbed the hide at the exact same time, how is it possible for a group to be FTF?

- Everyone looked, one found it.

 

Everyone "sharing the credit" sounds like how they now give even the worst team a trophy, saying, "we're all winners!".

- When the fact is, they didn't win.

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When a CO creates a new cache they are given an FTF code they put in the cache which a finder then logs on GC.com and is credited with the FTF. The code may only be used by one person.

 

We can the create a leader board much like cacherstats.com to see who truly is the best FTF hound, no that's my idea of fun.

I still see some abuse. Just give your friend the code and its over with. Or maybe not. :ph34r::blink::ph34r:

 

Agreed, my idea is 12 hours old, although its an awesome idea it does need some tweaking.

 

Isn't that a term used about meth-heads? They always have the best ideas.:rolleyes:

 

Yah, we'll they laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the earth wasn't flat.

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Right so let me get this straight. The code can only be used once? That's your idea? What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Personally if something like this would put me off trying to get a ftf. Especially as I don't normally cache alone and that would mean a fight over who got to log it.

Well, whoever actually finds the cache first would be FTF, I know, I know, I'm way ahead in my logical thinking.

I agree.

Unless you all spotted and grabbed the hide at the exact same time, how is it possible for a group to be FTF?

- Everyone looked, one found it.

 

Everyone "sharing the credit" sounds like how they now give even the worst team a trophy, saying, "we're all winners!".

- When the fact is, they didn't win.

Because you work as a team to find it. I know of multiple cachers that do this.

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What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Wait...now I LIKE this idea. Let's implement it asap!

I also like this idea. That's why I suggested it. If we're going to take the game from a friendly game to a everyone is rivals kind of game I see no issues in a fight to the death.

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Right so let me get this straight. The code can only be used once? That's your idea? What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Personally if something like this would put me off trying to get a ftf. Especially as I don't normally cache alone and that would mean a fight over who got to log it.

Well, whoever actually finds the cache first would be FTF, I know, I know, I'm way ahead in my logical thinking.

I agree.

Unless you all spotted and grabbed the hide at the exact same time, how is it possible for a group to be FTF?

- Everyone looked, one found it.

 

Everyone "sharing the credit" sounds like how they now give even the worst team a trophy, saying, "we're all winners!".

- When the fact is, they didn't win.

 

Nope. When a team wins, everyone on the team wins. Not just the one player who scored the winning point. Even the kid who sat on the bench most of the game.

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Right so let me get this straight. The code can only be used once? That's your idea? What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Personally if something like this would put me off trying to get a ftf. Especially as I don't normally cache alone and that would mean a fight over who got to log it.

Well, whoever actually finds the cache first would be FTF, I know, I know, I'm way ahead in my logical thinking.

I agree.

Unless you all spotted and grabbed the hide at the exact same time, how is it possible for a group to be FTF?

- Everyone looked, one found it.

 

Everyone "sharing the credit" sounds like how they now give even the worst team a trophy, saying, "we're all winners!".

- When the fact is, they didn't win.

 

Nope. When a team wins, everyone on the team wins. Not just the one player who scored the winning point. Even the kid who sat on the bench most of the game.

+1

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As for this idea as a whole, I say meh, bah.

 

The geocaching game is based on find it, log it. And that is based on each person's own interpretation and ethics. Yes, there are armchair loggers, someone who didn't climb the tree, someone who forgot their pencil, and some who don't even log at all. They each log as they feel appropriate and inclined. Most do so in a way that others agree with.

 

The FTF side game is played the same way. Find it 'first', by your definition, and log about it. Those who care, fine. Those who don't, fine. Some brag, some share, some really don't care. A few are jerks. Most don't get too worked up over it.

 

We don't need codes to validate the side game.

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I hosted an event on Saturday and hid a cache Friday night, which was published just in time for the event. I was SO pleased the FTF was claimed by a junior cacher. While I do not think FTF Hound would describe anyone in attendance at the event, I thought it was as near perfection as could be, for a young cacher to beat all the adults to the find.

 

I generally don't think much of FTF as anything remarkable and rarely mention I was first in logs where I was FTF (case in point, today's morning find) I do take a very dim view of people who will violate park hours or the spirit of the game (i.e. to be a good ambassador) to claim as many as possible.

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Yah, we'll they laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the earth wasn't flat.

 

Christopher Columbus was known for saying, "They tried to kill Copernicus when he suggested the Earth isn't the center of the universe." Christopher Columbus was known for exaggerating his case. I think I might have breathed a little more heavily through my nose when you made your proposition, or, perhaps that was just my allergies acting up, but I don't think I vocalized a legitimate laugh.

 

HECK NO!

 

This is one of those times I wish the stronger word wasn't censored on the site....it really would underline my position on the matter (not against the current FTF game as it is though).

 

133.strip.gif

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There is a simple way to determine who the FTF is, that only fails if the FTF doesn't do it....

I know a way, too:

The FTF states in their log that they were FTF.

 

It seems to work just fine around here. No codes, certificates, juries, or flying Lackeys required.

 

True, but there is too much drama, I like my FTFs nice and neat.

 

A much better process would be as follows and would not put Groundspeak in the position of moderating multiple claims of FTF:

 

The cache owner would be required to put a US bill ($1 or higher) in the cache and record the serial number.

 

The FTF claimant must inform the CO of the serial number of the bill.

 

The CO would then award the TFT prize.

 

Should there be multiple claims, each claimant would be required to recite the serial number from memory and state where the bill was spent.

 

Coincident with the implementation of this plan, all retail establishments that receive cash (not to be confused with cache) would be required to record and publish in a national database all serial numbers processed by the business. This would allow verification of the location where the bill was spent.

 

Should disputes still exist, the Bureau of Printing and Engraving would dispatch Special Agents, specially trained in the subtleties of caching (not to be confused with cashing) to investigate the conflict.

 

Note that the above plan has the advantage of decreasing the demand on nano and micro containers as many will not hold both the bill and the requisite log. In the event that some are still placed as new caches they would not be part of FTF program.

 

Also the US dollar would be buoyed by the sudden increase in international demand for the currency. The international FTF would be required to retain the bill as scanning would not be available at the point of spending.

 

Improvements on this are gratuitously solicited. Any that are actually workable will be ignored.

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When a CO creates a new cache they are given an FTF code they put in the cache which a finder then logs on GC.com and is credited with the FTF. The code may only be used by one person.

 

We can the create a leader board much like cacherstats.com to see who truly is the best FTF hound, no that's my idea of fun.

I still see some abuse. Just give your friend the code and its over with. Or maybe not. :ph34r::blink::ph34r:

 

Agreed, my idea is 12 hours old, although its an awesome idea it does need some tweaking.

 

Isn't that a term used about meth-heads? They always have the best ideas.:rolleyes:

 

Yah, we'll they laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the earth wasn't flat.

 

Congratulations! You have at least one thing in common with Christopher Columbus. Are you by any chance Italian? Ever worked for the Spanish Crown? Sailed in a small wooden boat?

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When a CO creates a new cache they are given an FTF code they put in the cache which a finder then logs on GC.com and is credited with the FTF. The code may only be used by one person.

 

We can the create a leader board much like cacherstats.com to see who truly is the best FTF hound, no that's my idea of fun.

I still see some abuse. Just give your friend the code and its over with. Or maybe not. :ph34r::blink::ph34r:

 

Agreed, my idea is 12 hours old, although its an awesome idea it does need some tweaking.

 

Isn't that a term used about meth-heads? They always have the best ideas.:rolleyes:

 

Yah, we'll they laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the earth wasn't flat.

 

Congratulations! You have at least one thing in common with Christopher Columbus. Are you by any chance Italian? Ever worked for the Spanish Crown? Sailed in a small wooden boat?

 

In an alternate universe Columbus sailed to the new world, where he encounter a heavily industrialized indigenous population. This New World population was fascinated by the presence of a backward continent of people and proceded to invade and settle it.

 

Have you looked at Google Maps, today?

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Yah, we'll they laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the earth wasn't flat.

 

Oh dear, not that old bit of nonsense.

No educated person at the time of Columbus, and certainly few sailors, thought the Earth was flat.

However, Columbus did think the round Earth was smaller than it was, and always thought he was exploring the east coast of Asia, not a new land.

He also never set foot on the mainland of what is now called North America.

And no, this is not an April fool remark as it’s the second of April here in Australia as I write this.

 

Normal transmission may now resume.

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Yah, we'll they laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the earth wasn't flat.

 

Oh dear, not that old bit of nonsense.

No educated person at the time of Columbus, and certainly few sailors, thought the Earth was flat.

However, Columbus did think the round Earth was smaller than it was, and always thought he was exploring the east coast of Asia, not a new land.

He also never set foot on the mainland of what is now called North America.

And no, this is not an April fool remark as it’s the second of April here in Australia as I write this.

 

Normal transmission may now resume.

 

Oh yeah! Then explain Columbus Ohio!

 

 

:laughing:

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This whole FTF issue is a moot point now. Using Signal's Time Machine I FTFed every single cache ever placed last night. I decided not to FTF future caches. Didn’t want to be greedy.

 

Don't get too excited. I will be following you everywhere you went.

Geostalking. :ph34r:

 

What do you know? You weren't have been there.

 

These multiple temporal positionings will are have been hard on the syntax. :huh:

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What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Wait...now I LIKE this idea. Let's implement it asap!

I also like this idea. That's why I suggested it. If we're going to take the game from a friendly game to a everyone is rivals kind of game I see no issues in a fight to the death.

And if we relax the no-weapons guideline it makes the fight so much more interesting...

 

Or maybe, start a geo-code duello - first blood for micros, first disable for small, and death for regular/large. Let's work together and make this good idea awesome!

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When a CO creates a new cache they are given an FTF code they put in the cache which a finder then logs on GC.com and is credited with the FTF. The code may only be used by one person.

 

We can the create a leader board much like cacherstats.com to see who truly is the best FTF hound, no that's my idea of fun.

I still see some abuse. Just give your friend the code and its over with. Or maybe not. :ph34r::blink::ph34r:

 

Agreed, my idea is 12 hours old, although its an awesome idea it does need some tweaking.

 

Isn't that a term used about meth-heads? They always have the best ideas.:rolleyes:

 

Yah, we'll they laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the earth wasn't flat.

 

Just imagine that below these words are multiple links to articles clearly demonstrating that the world was long known to be round and that Christopher "The Silly Slaver" Columbus was not trying to prove any such thing. You'll have to imagine it because I'm not putting forth the effort to post it in this thread.

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The cache owner would be required to put a US bill ($1 or higher) in the cache and record the serial number.

 

The FTF claimant must inform the CO of the last two digits of serial number of the bill.

 

 

Actually, this is really all anyone needs if the cache owner cares who the FTF is since it's not likely anyone would leave perfectly good cash in a cache. It could even be a coin and the type/date of the coin would be the "proof". No need to make it official. Then, those who care can play...and those who don't care can just let others have their fun.

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When a CO creates a new cache they are given an FTF code they put in the cache which a finder then logs on GC.com and is credited with the FTF. The code may only be used by one person.

 

We can the create a leader board much like cacherstats.com to see who truly is the best FTF hound, no that's my idea of fun.

I don't think we should promote first to find. The original point of geocaching is to get a Tupperware container anything I read about ftf was made up by geocachers. I would never leave the ftf code in my caches and if you don't want to come because of that will that's life?

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When a CO creates a new cache they are given an FTF code they put in the cache which a finder then logs on GC.com and is credited with the FTF. The code may only be used by one person.

You're not the first person to suggest that method, but as Toz pointed out, it just doesn't work. Really, there's only one way the FTF can be determined accurately across-the-board: An impartial 3rd-party has to camp out at GZ for every new cache and record who was the first to find the cache. Any other method has the potential to fall victim to bias or shenanigans by the owner or finders.

 

Anyway, why is now the time to make it "legit"? Myself and the other FTF hounds in this area are just fine with the way things are right now. Did you get snubbed at a FTF attempt or something?

we are adults here why would we need to camp out at the site you lost me there.and its determined by you going there and writing in the log first it seems and has worked so camping out????

Yeah the first to find hounds in the area... that are all the same and can't share and your just fine with it because your winning if you weren't well I'm sure you'd be in here wanting something done

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first blood for micros, first disable for small, and death for regular/large

Under the supposed theory that people tend to hide what they prefer finding, would it be possible to reverse the order of this duello? Get those who like hiding/finding soggy log film cans battling to the death for the FTF bragging rights? After X amount of time has passed, and we have some regional leader boards established, we could host something akin to the Hunger Games, where the film can FTF leaders gather and engage in combat until only one survives?

 

One possible addition: Anyone killed in an FTF duel automatically has their caches archived?

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first blood for micros, first disable for small, and death for regular/large

Under the supposed theory that people tend to hide what they prefer finding, would it be possible to reverse the order of this duello? Get those who like hiding/finding soggy log film cans battling to the death for the FTF bragging rights? After X amount of time has passed, and we have some regional leader boards established, we could host something akin to the Hunger Games, where the film can FTF leaders gather and engage in combat until only one survives?

 

One possible addition: Anyone killed in an FTF duel automatically has their caches archived?

 

I think it would depend on the type of cache.... If they're good hides then gs should adopt them out to the winner as another prize.

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Right so let me get this straight. The code can only be used once? That's your idea? What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Personally if something like this would put me off trying to get a ftf. Especially as I don't normally cache alone and that would mean a fight over who got to log it.

Well, whoever actually finds the cache first would be FTF, I know, I know, I'm way ahead in my logical thinking.

I agree.

Unless you all spotted and grabbed the hide at the exact same time, how is it possible for a group to be FTF?

Everyone "sharing the credit" sounds like how they now give even the worst team a trophy, saying, "we're all winners!".

- When the fact is, they didn't win.

 

Nope. When a team wins, everyone on the team wins. Not just the one player who scored the winning point. Even the kid who sat on the bench most of the game.

Hmmmm....Roman, why not start a thread called, "Team Finds - Blatantly Unfair?!"

 

A team of four has 4 times the power of a single cacher and should find the cache in 1\4 the time. Four finds are recorded for the single find. Roman, take the idea & run with it!

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Right so let me get this straight. The code can only be used once? That's your idea? What happens when a group of you are ftf? You fight to the death at GZ to decide which of you gets the ftf instead of sharing the credit?

 

Personally if something like this would put me off trying to get a ftf. Especially as I don't normally cache alone and that would mean a fight over who got to log it.

Well, whoever actually finds the cache first would be FTF, I know, I know, I'm way ahead in my logical thinking.

I agree.

Unless you all spotted and grabbed the hide at the exact same time, how is it possible for a group to be FTF?

Everyone "sharing the credit" sounds like how they now give even the worst team a trophy, saying, "we're all winners!".

- When the fact is, they didn't win.

.

Nope. When a team wins, everyone on the team wins. Not just the one player who scored the winning point. Even the kid who sat on the bench most of the game.

Hmmmm....Roman, why not start a thread called, "Team Finds - Blatantly Unfair?!"

 

A team of four has 4 times the power of a single cacher and should find the cache in 1\4 the time. Four finds are recorded for the single find. Roman, take the idea & run with it!

 

If I did that I might upset some people, wouldn't want to do that

Edited by Roman!
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The cheating would be simple to handle, every member would be allowed 1 protest/month that would be thouroughly investigated by GS lackeys and if a CO was found giving out the code they'd be banned for a month as would the fake finder.

 

Out of over two million caches (and who knows how many cachers)? That would be a huge undertaking. Because you know many 2TF's would "protest" it, every single month, every single one they're allowed.

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When a CO creates a new cache they are given an FTF code they put in the cache which a finder then logs on GC.com and is credited with the FTF. The code may only be used by one person.

 

We can the create a leader board much like cacherstats.com to see who truly is the best FTF hound, no that's my idea of fun.

 

It sounds like you want to take what is currently a side game that a lot of geocachers have no interest in playing and making it mandatory for a CO to be part of that game. I suspect that for some cache owners, rather than be forced to participate by placing a FTF code in new caches, they'll choose not to place any new caches.

 

Creating a "leaderboard" is even less meaninful for "the best FTF" hound than it is for the total of caches found. For those that have the luxury of living in a place where a lot of new caches are being placed they can achieve a high spot on the leader board, but in most places in the world the number of FTF opportunities pales in comparison to what you see in areas with a lot of people placing new caches. I don't exactly live in the middle of nowhere but there have been several periods of time of several months when there were only a handful of new caches placed. A few years ago, over a 4+ month period there were less than 5 caches placed within 30 miles.

 

Same. For a couple months I was practically the only one placing caches within 25-30 miles. Until a few months ago, and even now it's just one other person who's placed a handful of caches (which is amazing, but it's still only one person placing them).

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Most great ideas start as a concept that is polished to perfection so with all the constructive feedback I have polished my idea.

 

Every time a CO creates a cache they are given an FTF code they should in the cache.

Every log book must have a spot for the FTF to sign and the FTF must sign there.

The cache is locked from "Found it" logs till the FTF code is activated or till one week has passed at which time the code becomes inactive and no one can claim an "official" FTF.

 

Cheating will always be an issue but it won't be hard for a community to figure out who is cheating. Once there is enough proof the cheater(s) are investigated and banned if proven by a local volunteer FTF council to have cheated.

 

One week? I've had caches go a full month without a find. You would take the FTF away from the legitimate FTF because of that? And I've heard of ones going a year without a find because of difficulty.

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