Church Micro's

[+thehoomer]

Not long ago we found a Church Micro which was in someone's garden and was a 5 minute walk to the nearest church.

More recently, a new series has been launched close to Bicester and the Church Micro by its own admission, is not close to or at the church. Is it just me?

[+Bear and Ragged]

OK. The reviewers require permission if the cache is in/on near church property...

But if it's a multi, with numbers gained from within church grounds, and the cache itself is hidden away from church grounds, I don't see a problem.

 

But if it's a Trad...

 

A bit like the old seaside B&B/hotel. 'Sea views'

If you climb onto the wardrobe and look between those two houses, there's the sea...

Edited March 30, 2013 by Bear and Ragged

[+thehoomer]

OK. The reviewers require permission if the cache is in/on near church property...

But if it's a multi, with numbers gained from within church grounds, and the cache itself is hidden away from church grounds, I don't see a problem.

 

But if it's a Trad...

 

A bit like the old seaside B&B/hotel. 'Sea views'

If you climb onto the wardrobe and look between those two houses, there's the sea...

Both trads in this case.

 

"What did you expect to see from a Church Micro? Sydney Opera House? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically across the plain?"

What next? May be a MM cache at a greasy spoon in the middle of a town 'near' a motorway.

[+The Blorenges]

Not long ago we found a Church Micro which was in someone's garden and was a 5 minute walk to the nearest church.

More recently, a new series has been launched close to Bicester and the Church Micro by its own admission, is not close to or at the church. Is it just me?

 

Seems a bit pointless and un(in)spired? to me...

 

Any justification for the lack of church presence in the cache descriptions?

 

Possible scenario: "Oh, oh, oh, we must have a Church Micro cache in our portfolio of caches - Let's do one for St Whoever's... Oh, someone's already put a cache close to there... oh, well, we can't give up our ambitions so we'll just fit it in somewhere..."

 

MrsB

[+thehoomer]

Not long ago we found a Church Micro which was in someone's garden and was a 5 minute walk to the nearest church.

More recently, a new series has been launched close to Bicester and the Church Micro by its own admission, is not close to or at the church. Is it just me?

 

Seems a bit pointless and un(in)spired? to me...

 

Any justification for the lack of church presence in the cache descriptions?

 

Possible scenario: "Oh, oh, oh, we must have a Church Micro cache in our portfolio of caches - Let's do one for St Whoever's... Oh, someone's already put a cache close to there... oh, well, we can't give up our ambitions so we'll just fit it in somewhere..."

 

MrsB

Nope, no justifications Mrs B.

 

We used to quite like CM's and would almost always go and have a look in the church if it was open. I thought it was just Terrain, Diffrat and Favpo's that weren't to be trusted. It would appear that we now need to add Church Micro's to the list of unreliable's too.

[+TheOldfields]

Do we get some GC numbers to giggle at?

[+civilised]

Not long ago we found a Church Micro which was in someone's garden and was a 5 minute walk to the nearest church.

More recently, a new series has been launched close to Bicester and the Church Micro by its own admission, is not close to or at the church. Is it just me?

 

Seems a bit pointless and un(in)spired? to me...

 

Any justification for the lack of church presence in the cache descriptions?

 

Possible scenario: "Oh, oh, oh, we must have a Church Micro cache in our portfolio of caches - Let's do one for St Whoever's... Oh, someone's already put a cache close to there... oh, well, we can't give up our ambitions so we'll just fit it in somewhere..."

 

MrsB

Nope, no justifications Mrs B.

 

We used to quite like CM's and would almost always go and have a look in the church if it was open. I thought it was just Terrain, Diffrat and Favpo's that weren't to be trusted. It would appear that we now need to add Church Micro's to the list of unreliable's too.

 

 

I understand what you mean about difficulty & terrain - but why do you think that Favourite Points aren't to be trusted ?

 

Genuinely interested here.

Edited March 31, 2013 by civilised

[+thehoomer]

Not long ago we found a Church Micro which was in someone's garden and was a 5 minute walk to the nearest church.

More recently, a new series has been launched close to Bicester and the Church Micro by its own admission, is not close to or at the church. Is it just me?

 

Seems a bit pointless and un(in)spired? to me...

 

Any justification for the lack of church presence in the cache descriptions?

 

Possible scenario: "Oh, oh, oh, we must have a Church Micro cache in our portfolio of caches - Let's do one for St Whoever's... Oh, someone's already put a cache close to there... oh, well, we can't give up our ambitions so we'll just fit it in somewhere..."

 

MrsB

Nope, no justifications Mrs B.

 

We used to quite like CM's and would almost always go and have a look in the church if it was open. I thought it was just Terrain, Diffrat and Favpo's that weren't to be trusted. It would appear that we now need to add Church Micro's to the list of unreliable's too.

 

 

I understand what you mean about difficulty & terrain - but why do you think that Favourite Points aren't to be trusted ?

 

Genuinely interested here.

Good question.

In many cases Favourite points are being legitimately awarded for a particular cache and as I understand it, this is the system's original purpose.

More and more though, I am seeing a point awarded for nothing more remarkable than the last one in a reasonable series. I know that awarding favourite points is a very personal thing but feel its original purpose has been lost. I also know that we may be in the minority but searching for decent independent caches by FP has become flawed and unreliable and the caches still need further filtering. Unless of course, you are looking for a reasonable series .

[+Gralorn]

My opinion is that if it is a traditional then it should be placed quite close by, after all I feel the whole idea is to visit the church and its surroundings. Even multi church caches I feel should still should be placed within close proximity once the relevant clues within or outside the church have been located and worked out. After all by Definition it is a 'Church Micro'. Granted that they are not all micro's though. The furthest that we have ever had to go from a multi church micro was several miles and so we had to drive! Church Micro 3210 (GC434WG). It made a lot of sense though bearing in mind opportunity and of course that old chestnut Health & Safety. It is a lovely cache, certainly recommended and well worth a visit when its open to the Public. Where a 'Favourite Point' means something!

[team tisri]

I understand what you mean about difficulty & terrain - but why do you think that Favourite Points aren't to be trusted ?

 

Genuinely interested here.

 

Favourite points are just a collection of subjective opinions of what random people liked, which may or may not bear any resemblance to what you like.

 

Normally I have little time for nanos but every once in a while award one a favourite point because some aspect of it (usually an interesting puzzle) made me enjoy it. If you saw my comments about nanos in the forums, saw me give a favourite point to something and put any weight on that, you might be disappointed to find the cache was a nano behind a sign.

 

People might give favourite points to a cache because their buddy hid it, or because they never saw a nano before and thought it was cool, or a favourite to the last cache in a series because they loved the series even if the last one was utterly dull in every respect, and so on.

 

Then you get the virtuals in city centres that attract dozens of favourites simply because they draw tourists to major attractions (even though the tourists would probably have gone there even without the cache).

[+thehoomer]

I understand what you mean about difficulty & terrain - but why do you think that Favourite Points aren't to be trusted ?

 

Genuinely interested here.

 

Favourite points are just a collection of subjective opinions of what random people liked, which may or may not bear any resemblance to what you like.

 

Normally I have little time for nanos but every once in a while award one a favourite point because some aspect of it (usually an interesting puzzle) made me enjoy it. If you saw my comments about nanos in the forums, saw me give a favourite point to something and put any weight on that, you might be disappointed to find the cache was a nano behind a sign.

Completely agree.

It was probably a year or so ago and I was on here having a whinge about how caching has changed and a lot of caches were pretty poor. At the time, a few people answered and said, 'why not filter out the chaff by using the Favourite Points system?' I started to do this and for a time, it worked. As I say though, for reasons both you and I have now highlighted, it isn't wholly reliable and is becoming less and less so.

 

People might give favourite points to a cache because their buddy hid it, or because they never saw a nano before and thought it was cool, or a favourite to the last cache in a series because they loved the series even if the last one was utterly dull in every respect, and so on.

 

Then you get the virtuals in city centres that attract dozens of favourites simply because they draw tourists to major attractions (even though the tourists would probably have gone there even without the cache).

Completely agree.

It was probably a year or so ago and I was bleating on about how caching has changed and a lot of caches were pretty poor, blah blah. At the time, a few people answered and said, 'why not filter out the chaff by using the Favourite Points system?' I started to do this and for a time, it worked. For reasons both you and I have highlighted, it isn't wholly reliable and IMO, is becoming less and less so.

As far as CM's are concerned, don't be suprised if we start seeing more than 1 to mark the same church. Seemingly, they don't have to be at/outside the church any more, therefore the placement possibilities are simply endless.

[+MartyBartfast]

 

As far as CM's are concerned, don't be suprised if we start seeing more than 1 to mark the same church.

I don't think that will happen as the chap who manages the CM numbers only gives 1 number per church, even if a CM gets archived and someone wants to place another one there it gets the same number as the original.

 

Of course there's nothing to stop someone sticking any cache anywhere and calling it "Church Micro 2784292736445: the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster". Do you know whether the two CMs you noticed were 'official' CMs, listed on the CM stats site here?

 

BTW I'm with you on the original point, I would expect a CM cache to be within a reasonable walking distance of the church, except in instances like the Imber Church where that's just not possible.

Edited April 1, 2013 by MartyBartfast

[+thehoomer]

I’ve just come back in from doing a handful of caches. I cant manage the lamb roast dinner previously on the menu because I'm too full of humble pie . The church near Bicester does not appear on all the maps. This, coupled with the text on the cache page stating that the cache isn't anywhere near the church, led me to jump to conclusions. Anyway, it turns out it is next to a tiny place of worship and has highlighted a little gem which we didn't know existed :anicute: So, apologies if I offended anyone with my very ignorant aspersions.

After further research, the other cache I mentioned used to be in the churchyard but had to moved 500' away because permission had not been granted for it to be on church property .

So, lessons learned I guess - Don't judge a book......etc

In my defence though m'lud, these 2 were only recent examples and we have found plenty of other CM's which were questionably titled. Back-peddle, back-peddle, back-peddle .

[+Team Noodles]

[

As far as CM's are concerned, don't be suprised if we start seeing more than 1 to mark the same church. Seemingly, they don't have to be at/outside the church any more, therefore the placement possibilities are simply endless.

 

I'd hope Sadex has the mind set to check this in order to prevent it from happening.

[+butch_uk]

I'm curious why you were in someones garden looking for caches? I thought we had laws about that sort of behaviour?

[+Amberel]

I'm curious why you were in someones garden looking for caches? I thought we had laws about that sort of behaviour?

I expect they were there because the cache was there. There is no law that says a cache may not be in someone's garden.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+mcwomble]

A lot of the original "old school" Church Micro multi's and by that I mean those set by Sadex himself, used to be nowhere near the church in question due to a lack of decent hiding places.

 

The cache did require you to wander round the churchyard itself and pick up the clues and then there was a casual 1km+ walk to some distant point with either a vista of the church to enjoy or some other worthwhile reason for being at the cache site.

 

I have tried to emulate this with some of my Church Micro multi's, in particular CM Stow Maries and have had many a grumble from the "numbers" brigade about having to walk too far, or I thought I must have the sums wrong because it seemed too far to walk.

 

IMHO, if you cant hide a trad within the immediate locale of the church, then you should be looking at a multi/puzzle cache with a bit of a walk / drive

[+gazooks]

On the subject of CM's - I have noticed an unsettling trend around the Cambridge area where any place of worship is being targeted just so a cache can be placed nearby.

 

I like the CM series as although I'm not particularly religious - I do like a nice piece of architecture and usually the history of the church in question in the listing is of interest. The very reasons I enjoy geocaching - taking me to places I may not have done without the game.

 

But now a load of CM caches have been placed at minor places of worship with no history and nondescript buildings with no appeal whatsover. IMO just so a cache can be placed and for no other reason. I don't know if sadexploration is aware of this 'abuse' (IMHO) of his wonderful series or not but its tainting it for me.

[+me N u]

On the subject of CM's - I have noticed an unsettling trend around the Cambridge area where any place of worship is being targeted just so a cache can be placed nearby.

 

I like the CM series as although I'm not particularly religious - I do like a nice piece of architecture and usually the history of the church in question in the listing is of interest. The very reasons I enjoy geocaching - taking me to places I may not have done without the game.

 

But now a load of CM caches have been placed at minor places of worship with no history and nondescript buildings with no appeal whatsover. IMO just so a cache can be placed and for no other reason. I don't know if sadexploration is aware of this 'abuse' (IMHO) of his wonderful series or not but its tainting it for me.

 

It seems to be the same in the part of Cornwall we live - they are sprouting up like weeds and almost all are micros, it takes away the uniqueness of them in our opinion.

[BOBBLES WORLD TOUR]

On the subject of CM's - I have noticed an unsettling trend around the Cambridge area where any place of worship is being targeted just so a cache can be placed nearby.

 

It's a church with a micro.

Isn't that the point. I wouldn't pray for something more.

[team tisri]

On the subject of CM's - I have noticed an unsettling trend around the Cambridge area where any place of worship is being targeted just so a cache can be placed nearby.

 

I like the CM series as although I'm not particularly religious - I do like a nice piece of architecture and usually the history of the church in question in the listing is of interest. The very reasons I enjoy geocaching - taking me to places I may not have done without the game.

 

But now a load of CM caches have been placed at minor places of worship with no history and nondescript buildings with no appeal whatsover. IMO just so a cache can be placed and for no other reason. I don't know if sadexploration is aware of this 'abuse' (IMHO) of his wonderful series or not but its tainting it for me.

 

It seems to be the same in the part of Cornwall we live - they are sprouting up like weeds and almost all are micros, it takes away the uniqueness of them in our opinion.

 

Wow. Church micros are mostly micros. Who'd have thought it? At a wild guess I'd say they are placed near churches?

[+me N u]

On the subject of CM's - I have noticed an unsettling trend around the Cambridge area where any place of worship is being targeted just so a cache can be placed nearby.

 

I like the CM series as although I'm not particularly religious - I do like a nice piece of architecture and usually the history of the church in question in the listing is of interest. The very reasons I enjoy geocaching - taking me to places I may not have done without the game.

 

But now a load of CM caches have been placed at minor places of worship with no history and nondescript buildings with no appeal whatsover. IMO just so a cache can be placed and for no other reason. I don't know if sadexploration is aware of this 'abuse' (IMHO) of his wonderful series or not but its tainting it for me.

 

It seems to be the same in the part of Cornwall we live - they are sprouting up like weeds and almost all are micros, it takes away the uniqueness of them in our opinion.

 

Wow. Church micros are mostly micros. Who'd have thought it? At a wild guess I'd say they are placed near churches?

 

From the church micro website - The cache can be as large as you like, the bigger the better.

[+Bear and Ragged]

On the subject of CM's - I have noticed an unsettling trend around the Cambridge area where any place of worship is being targeted just so a cache can be placed nearby.

 

I like the CM series as although I'm not particularly religious - I do like a nice piece of architecture and usually the history of the church in question in the listing is of interest. The very reasons I enjoy geocaching - taking me to places I may not have done without the game.

 

But now a load of CM caches have been placed at minor places of worship with no history and nondescript buildings with no appeal whatsover. IMO just so a cache can be placed and for no other reason. I don't know if sadexploration is aware of this 'abuse' (IMHO) of his wonderful series or not but its tainting it for me.

 

It seems to be the same in the part of Cornwall we live - they are sprouting up like weeds and almost all are micros, it takes away the uniqueness of them in our opinion.

 

Wow. Church micros are mostly micros. Who'd have thought it? At a wild guess I'd say they are placed near churches?

 

From the church micro website - The cache can be as large as you like, the bigger the better.

 

Seem to remember from my early days of caching, that the old adage when hiding a cache... Hide the biggest container that fits, "The bigger the better"

[+Amberel]

It's a church with a micro. Isn't that the point.

Well, it's a point but not the only point or the whole point, at least, not for everybody. I've found a lot of CMs. I target the series because it frequently takes me to an interesting old building in a peaceful, beautiful and secluded setting, or sometimes a modern building with striking architecture. But an increasing number these days are set by more nondescript, utilitarian buildings, which serve their intended purpose well but which lack wider interest. That's fine for the congregation, and for cachers whose only interest is numbers, but it's less interesting for me.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Oxford Stone]

My 2p-worth:

 

0.1 mile, really not far is it? If you want to place a cache close to a church, even if there's a non-CM cache right by it, can't be too hard to find another place close by.

 

If a CM (trad but preferably multi - so many numbers to be gleaned in and around churchyards!) took me to a fantastic view of a church from a hill a mile away, I'd think "fair enough".

 

I've found plenty of caches and wondered "why did you bother putting that there?" and can imagine that "why did you bother calling that a CM and put it there?" must be a question some cachers ask.

 

... but I'm not a big follower of the whole CM thing. S Oxon Stone (who got me into caching) is, and has an interesting challenge up his sleeve, watch this space. Pebbles & Co has put out clever multis for loads of churches in SW Oxon and as I'm trying to drive down my trad % (88 something now), they're always good. Picked up the info at Imber Church on the Salisbury Plain firing ranges last weekend but not picked up the cache yet.

[+Happy Humphrey]

But now a load of CM caches have been placed at minor places of worship with no history and nondescript buildings with no appeal whatsover. IMO just so a cache can be placed and for no other reason. I don't know if sadexploration is aware of this 'abuse' (IMHO) of his wonderful series or not but its tainting it for me.

I don't see why we would have to ignore minor churches, dull-looking ones or modern ones. They might not appeal to you, but others could find some worth, even as a contrast to the traditional ancient gothic building. Who would decide where to draw the line, anyway? I might find it interesting to see just how many churches are around the area.

[+metal-bijou]

Not long ago we found a Church Micro which was in someone's garden and was a 5 minute walk to the nearest church.

More recently, a new series has been launched close to Bicester and the Church Micro by its own admission, is not close to or at the church. Is it just me?

 

I know this thread has deviated a litle since but I'd like to add that I recently did a CM in someone's front garden and it got a favourite point from me. Runs and ducks for cover.

 

Actually it was culmination of a great series of CM that was a perfect caching morning. This was not a trad but a puzzle and you most certainly had to visit the church.

 

What was interesting too was nearby CMs that didn't stand out at all and as the churches were all close had to be conveluted multis for the sake of it. But then going to the church and then heading off was better than not. The experience of seeing nearly half a dozen in the same town was good.

[team tisri]

On the subject of CM's - I have noticed an unsettling trend around the Cambridge area where any place of worship is being targeted just so a cache can be placed nearby.

 

I like the CM series as although I'm not particularly religious - I do like a nice piece of architecture and usually the history of the church in question in the listing is of interest. The very reasons I enjoy geocaching - taking me to places I may not have done without the game.

 

But now a load of CM caches have been placed at minor places of worship with no history and nondescript buildings with no appeal whatsover. IMO just so a cache can be placed and for no other reason. I don't know if sadexploration is aware of this 'abuse' (IMHO) of his wonderful series or not but its tainting it for me.

 

It seems to be the same in the part of Cornwall we live - they are sprouting up like weeds and almost all are micros, it takes away the uniqueness of them in our opinion.

 

Wow. Church micros are mostly micros. Who'd have thought it? At a wild guess I'd say they are placed near churches?

 

From the church micro website - The cache can be as large as you like, the bigger the better.

 

Bit strange to call the series "church micro" if caches that aren't micros are encouraged. If a "church micro" isn't a micro we shouldn't be surprised if it's not all that near a church...