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Fox Hunt

enfanta

By enfanta
in General geocaching topics

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
Posted

I heard of a Fox Hunt using GPS but before I could find out exactly what it was, I'd come up with my own idea.

 

Before I try to organize this, I'd like to see if any of you kind folks out there can point out some problems I may have missed or give suggestions on how to improve it.

 

Before the hunt starts, 5-8 mini-caches are hidden (not posted to geocaching.com: one-day event). Each cache has the coordinates of the next one. The final cache is the "den" and if the fox gets there before being caught by the hunters and hounds, the fox has won.

 

One cacher is selected (forced to volunteer?:^) as the fox. The fox knows where all the caches are but must proceed on foot and follow the same order of caches as the hounds and hunters. The hounds and hunters only have the coords to the first cache but they also have mountain bikes.

 

The fox gets a fifteen minute head start to get to the first cache where s/he leaves a marker to prove s/he was there. The hounds and hunters follow to catch (cache??) the fox. If at any point they sight the fox they are allowed to pursue it and if they catch it, the hounds and hunters have won. If the fox eludes them, however, their only option is to continue to seek the caches until they again spot the fox (and the fox must still follow the sequence of caches and leave a marker in each cache).

 

I imagine this game would take an hour or two and I can see it being played from a large park to a slightly commercial/residential area and ending at a pub or coffee shop so the hunters and the hunted could celebrate their victory.

 

Ideas? Comments?

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The Leprechauns

+The Leprechauns

Posted
Posted

I think you would need to test the course to determine what's a fair head start. And the answer will vary from fox to fox. If the fox is a triathlete and runs through the woods, he'll win with a 30 minute head start. If the fox is the typical geocacher, the hounds are likely to catch him on their mountain bikes. Even more so if they're experienced cyclists. I'd worry that the game would be anticlimactic to one extreme or the other - - a runaway victory by the fox or a quick capture by pursuing bicycles. Maybe when the fox is shown where the caches are, the timing of that trip would give the organizer a sense of the appropriate head start.

 

That being said, it's a cool idea. I'd drive over from Pittsburgh to participate.

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitos?

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geospotter

+geospotter

Posted
Posted

Make sure that the hounds also have to follow the caches and not just fan out to try and catch the fox.

 

Also, what happens if the fox spots the hounds, hides, and the hounds get ahead of the fox. Do they win if they get to a cache that the fox has not yet visited?

 

Sounds like fun.

 

geospotter

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

quote:
Also, what happens if the fox spots the hounds, hides, and the hounds get ahead of the fox.

 

Then the fox is, well, screwed. All parties must go to the caches in order. If the hounds and hunters come to a cache that doesn't yet have the foxes marker in it (proving that the fox hasn't yet arrived) then all they have to do is wait for the fox to show up and nab 'em!

 

quote:
Do they win if they get to a cache that the fox has not yet visited?

 

Pretty much, because they win when they grab the fox (I'm thinking maybe the fox should wear a tag a la "tag football" to discourage any actually tackling!) and the fox *must* visit each cache order. So must the hounds and hunters. The fox drops off a marker in each cache to prove s/he was there and the hounds and hunters collect those markers to prove they were there, too.

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Salvelinus

+Salvelinus

Posted
Posted

If you need some local help...get in touch with me.

 

For a twist, this would be great at night. I know Buzzbe just got a new high powered headlamp and would have to be a hound. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Got any locations in mind?

 

Keep me posted...

Salvelinus

 

goldfish.gif

"The trail will be long and full of frustrations. Life is a whole and good and evil must be accepted together"

 

Ralph Abele

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RJFerret

+RJFerret

Posted
Posted

This sounds like fun, too bad I'm not nearby as I'd enjoy being the fox. Enjoyed losing some LARP players in a relatively small campground's trails and hiding out from them for over an hour.

 

I would try to setup the course such that the fox crossed areas the bikes couldn't. Rope swing, boat/water, boulder-climb, etc... If the terrain lent itself to their having to go way around such obstacles, the fox wouldn't run out of energy and could lead to a more exciting chase--rather than being an hour out of sight, but always just out of reach!

 

Hmm.. Now that I think about it, how about a 'Y' in the trail? Basically the fox gets to skip a cache (token already planted) somewhere mid-course. If it's physically set up so that skipped cache is out of the way, it lets the fox recover somewhat, yet have to be aware of the hunters progress to know when he has to "take off again". It would be like he laid a false trail via backtracking or the dogs lost the scent.

 

Could be fun to provide two or three sets of coordinates at one point, the hunters would presumably split up only to have some of them following false trails (perhaps instead of being dead ends they lead back together again so the competition remains fair).

 

Once you've done this, let us know how you implemented it and what you would do differently please!

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Good point about the "back-tracking" and fox-only territory. We're scouting out locations next week and I certainly expect and encourage the fox to take the shortest routes between caches-- no matter what the bikes have to do!

 

One other thing in the fox's favor is that s/he knows where the caches are and the hounds&hunters don't. The fox will be able to go straight to each cache and move on, but the h&h will be seeking the cache for 5..10...15? minutes.

 

Another cacher suggested allowing multiple routes, or rather, not having to find the caches in sequence. I'm thinking we'll try both ways in one day. "In sequence" in one direction and "Choose your cache" on the way back.

 

We'll keep you posted but better start tuning up the bikes now, just to be ready! icon_biggrin.gif

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Brogan

Brogan

Posted
Posted

Some means is needed to keep the fox from moving the location of the caches in an attempt to slow down or throw off the hunters...perhaps just the organizer being present in the hunters group to verify that the cache is actually were it was supposed to be?

BTW...sign me up for the fox position!

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

quote:
Some means is needed to keep the fox from moving the location of the caches in an attempt to slow down or throw off the hunters...perhaps just the organizer being present in the hunters group to verify that the cache is actually were it was supposed to be?

 

That's probably what's going to happen. Salvelinus has volunteered to be the fox and as we're probably going to be mapping out routes pretty soon, I'll know where all the caches are...

 

On the flip side, maybe the fox should be encouraged to shift the caches somewhat. Cut down the lead time and let him/her move the caches to slow down the pursuers??

 

First things first though: gotta map the route!

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Zed

+Zed

Posted
Posted

I'm thinking of something like a 6" length of PCV pipe and hose clamps to attach it to certain accepted items. Some might be parking meters. Maybe a fence post or tree limb. Whatever type container used it seems that consistancy would be an advantage. I can just see myself spending one of my hour long searches for a cache that later turns out to be obvious. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Ozzyjazz Geek

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

but the weather and the holidays slowed things down a bit. The rain's taking care of the snow so perhaps I'll be able to get out there sometime in the next week or so to set a route.

 

I can't imagine a single hunt taking much more than 30-45 minutes so it should be possible to try several variants at on "meet": alternate routes, fox knowing/not knowing where the caches are, various lead times, etc.

 

I had hoped for a late January fox hunt. I'll keep you all posted.

 

And thanks for all the suggestions!

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
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Posted

I would *love* to hear how it goes. If you put together a fox hunt and run it before we get a chance to here in Central PA, it would be *very* helpful to hear how it went.

 

Just came back from scouting a site with Salvelinus in State College. Walked a couple trails and discussed some possible set-ups. The trail was snow-covered ice and not at all suitable for any kind of hurrying so we'll have to wait for a melt before we can try this. I'm thinking (hoping) sometime in March and the first event would be a few tests to see what works best. Salvelinus has volunteered to be the first fox, I may set up a route or two and I'll be contacting some locals to find volunteers. HOWEVER, if this is something that really interests you and you are not in State College/Bellefonte/Phillipsburg/etc., please contact me to see if we can arrange something. I'm thinking 5-6 people minimum to make it interesting.

 

Thanks for all the support!

 

[This message was edited by enfanta on January 11, 2003 at 10:20 AM.]

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Salvelinus

+Salvelinus

Posted
Posted

Winter has played some cruel tricks on getting this event set up. Enfanta and I were hoping for a late-winter thing...but I doubt that will happen now!

 

I was supposed to lay out a course for the hunt. But, we have had snow on the ground since Christmas making setting up the course difficult. As soon as the latest 2 feet of snow melts significantly, I will make an attempt at laying out the course.

 

If March has normal weather...I think we could get a course together by early April. Stay tuned!

 

Salvelinus

 

goldfish.gif

"The trail will be long and full of frustrations. Life is a whole and good and evil must be accepted together"

 

Ralph Abele

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

YES!

 

That'd be great. I'm so disappointed in this weather. I was hoping to go and scout a course tomorrow but with freezing rain predicted that doesn't seem likely.

 

I haven't abandoned this idea and obviously Salvelinus is still interested so, as he says, stay tuned, folks!

 

(Enough snow drifts out there for ya, Salvelinus?)

 

X is for X, and X marks the spot, On the rug in the parlor, The sand in the lot, Where once you were standing, And now you are not.

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Salvelinus

+Salvelinus

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Dekaner of Team KKF2A:

There are a few of us here in NY that have been following the thread and would like to attend when you get it all setup. Thanks!

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

 

Uh ohhh! We better make this good Enfanta? Them cachers up North are good! May have to increase the difficulty! LOL

 

Another big storm with more snow predicted in the next few days...Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Anyone walk around the woods lately? Gosh is it tough!

 

Salvelinus

 

goldfish.gif

"The trail will be long and full of frustrations. Life is a whole and good and evil must be accepted together"

 

Ralph Abele

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

quote:
Uh ohhh! We better make this good Enfanta? Them cachers up North are good! May have to increase the difficulty! LOL

 

If necessary, we can run the hunt at night and use pen caps for cache containers... maybe we'll blind-fold 'em...

 

BUT FIRST WE HAVE TO LOSE THE SNOW!!

 

X is for X, and X marks the spot, On the rug in the parlor, The sand in the lot, Where once you were standing, And now you are not.

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

It's time to run the fox hunt. I was out on the trails last night, setting a route or two. Salvelinus, you still in on this? Seeker BP Team E-Trex & Dekaner of Team KKF2A, you guys willing to help out? Anyone else out there who's interested, speak up now!

 

I want to run a few trials on the 19th. Remember, I've never done this before and I don't know how it will turn out. I'm looking for some cachers who are prepared to experiment and ready to help tweak this idea into a ton o' fun.

 

Frankly, I'm not much of a marathoner. When I'm the fox, the game may be over much too quickly! Salvelinus is confident he can lead us on a good chase. I would like to have about 5-6 in the pack and try about 4-6 trials. I can do two, not sure if 'Linus wants to do more than one. Anyone else want to step up as a fox?

 

There's a small park not far from the trails. We can park there and have a picnic afterwards if everyone likes. If you want to bring your kids, that's fine, too. If you think they can keep up they're more than welcome to participate (PLEASE make them wear a bike helmet!) or if you have someone who wants to watch them, there are swings and slides at the park.

 

So, can we make this work? Can we meet on the 19th about noon? Anyone else want to be a fox? Talk to me people, either here or through email. I'm ready to run! icon_biggrin.gif

 

X is for X, and X marks the spot, On the rug in the parlor, The sand in the lot, Where once you were standing, And now you are not.

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

THOSE BASTARDS!!!!

 

New forums deleted my post.

 

Suffice to say, the fox hunt is going forward on the 19th. If I can get two other people to say they will definitely be there, then I will post a caching event. Otherwise, I'll be there in ears and tail (don't believe me? Show up and find out)!

 

Where is there? There is the small park whose name I've never learned off Circleville Road in State College, PA. You can't miss it. It's the ONLY park on Circleville Road, right in the middle of a bunch of fields.

 

Hope to see you there about noon on the 19th!

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Sorry for the confusion.

 

The Fox Hunt is a GO. I don't care if I'm the only person out there, the Fox Hunt is going forward at 1 pm on the 19th. Salvelinus and I are debating between two locations but they're close to each other so if you plan on being in State College by 1:00 on the 19th, you'll be set. I'll be posting *exact* coordinates before the week-end is over.

 

The ifs and maybes were about posting this as an event cache but even that is now definite: this afternoon I will be asking this to be posted as an event cache.

 

I'm pleased you're still interested and hey! --anyone else who's interested out there feel free to join in!!

 

I hope to see you all on the 19th!

 

[This message was edited by enfanta on April 03, 2003 at 10:27 AM.]

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
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Posted

Gnbrotz, BuzzBe, deetylong and I gathered at the park for a one o’clock start time. I had mapped out 2 routes, and two other caching games (a bike rally and a poker game). Gnbrotz mapped out a route, too. We all had bikes except BuzzBe and he got to ride the fox’s bike. I wasn’t as organized as I would have liked: I had to pitch my first cache because I couldn’t get the coordinates back out of it to double-check them. (It was a small glass vial that had been a perfume sample in its past life.)

 

We started at 1:20 and with my 7 minute head start I headed up the trail, cut off the trail to the first cache site, set the cache, cut through the next batch of woods (I had marked a trail a couple days before to be sure I could find my way through it to the proper exit), emerged into the field just a minute after the Hunt started up the trail towards the first cache, dodged down a different trail, couldn’t find the cache site, panicked, forgot how to use my GPS, found what I thought was the cache site, toddled (‘cause I simply couldn’t run any more) out into the previously mentioned field, placed the 3rd cache, cut across the field, realized I’d lost a cache somewhere in the woods and so on and so forth.

 

I set the caches and as the 3rd one was near the den (a large shrub in the field) I retired to the woods surrounding the den to watch the hunt when they appeared. They appeared from the wrong direction and scared the bejeezus out of me. I spent the next 45 minutes hunched down between two fallen trees, willing the hunt to find the second cache. By this point it was painfully clear that I’d been too clever for my own good. Micros were simply too difficult for a zippy game.

 

Eventually, I just radioed the next coordinates to the hunt and they appeared in the field. Certain that I was near, they scanned the woods for me and indeed, they found me. I slunk out of the woods, disappointed that the hunt was over after finding only *one* of my caches. I slunk a little over to the right of hunt and they realized I was only a few yards away from the Den: I ran flat out for the den but alas, I was just feet away from safety when they tagged me. The Fox did not win that Hunt.

 

We had similar results with gnbrotz’s hunt. Micros in the woods are just too hard to find quickly. We bumped into a different problem in that gnbrotz visited his caches in a different order from the hunt and so it was possible that the Hunt arrived at a cache before him. This is a fine variation of the game unless the Hunt is collecting the caches as they go… which we were. Gnbrotz couldn’t be sure if he was not finding a cache that was there or missing out on a cache that’d been taken…

 

Although the hunt didn’t go as I anticipated, I think it shows promise. I would like to try it again with similar rules but larger and easier to find caches. I hope deetylong, BuzzBe and gnbrotz chime in with their suggestions: they had many useful and practical suggestions.

 

Published experts (1, 2) say with certainty that critical situations will arise which are totally unexpected.

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here are my suggestions to anyone else interested in running a Fox Hunt:

 

1) Do not hide micros. I was so scared that the Hunt would tear through my route that I made micros and hid them too well. To keep the whole thing moving, I suggest the smallest you should go is a 2 cup Tupperware or a small ammo can.

 

2) Use radios. I wasn't sure what we'd use them for when gnbrotz suggested bringing them but they were invaluable for keeping the race going. If something should happen to any of the participants, both parties can be notified.

 

2) The Fox should have adequate notes so s/he can find the caches! I couldn't find one of my original hiding places and gnbrotz couldn't find two caches he set before the hunt. Photos, drawings or notes might help. Also, if the Fox is carrying the caches to the site during the hunt, the Fox should be sure she keeps track of all her caches and doesn't drop one in the woods as she bolts for the first cache site! (Not that I did this… more than once.)

 

3) For the bikes to be an advantage, the route should be lengthy. Stopping and starting with caches only a few hundred feet apart is a great tactic for giving the fox time but on a shortish hunt it gives too much advantage to the Fox. If you don't have any runners in your group, it could be possible to use two to four foxes on a long route. (See “Variations”)

 

4) If the race is to the den, the Hunt needs to know where the den is. At one point I spotted the fox and went racing off, only to realize I didn't know where we were racing to. If the point is to tag the fox then perhaps it's not necessary to know where the den is.

 

5) Don't give the fox too much of a head start. I had 7 minutes to place the first cache and disappear before the Hunt followed behind. This seemed like cutting it close but the first cache was so difficult to find, 7 minutes turned out to be too much lead time. Perhaps next time we’ll start at the first cache site, the Hunt can turn its collective back and I can run off into the woods while they search for the first cache.

 

Variations:

 

The race is to the Den and it doesn’t matter if the fox is sighted before that: both the Hunt and the Fox must visit all the caches in any order.

 

To make the course longer (I think my course was less than a mile, though you wouldn’t be able to tell that from my level of exhaustion) in the absence of a marathon runner as Fox, split the route up between 3-4 foxes. Each fox is responsible for a section of the course. This would allow the Hunt to get some good bike riding in…

 

Published experts (1, 2) say with certainty that critical situations will arise which are totally unexpected.

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MissJenn

+MissJenn

Posted
Posted

A small suggestion from an observer (esp. useful if other events like this will happen in the future):

Call each of these "Fox Hunt: Something" so that we can more easily search for them in the future... For example:

 

Fox Hunt: Tally Ho! (not too late to retroactively edit the cache page, enfanta icon_wink.gif )

Fox Hunt: Livery Colors

Fox Hunt: Whatever

 

EDIT:

There are 4 caches by CCCooperAgency that already use the Fox Hunt designation, but such is life. They are not event caches. I still think this is a good suggestion.

You must be present to win.

 

[This message was edited by MissJenn on April 22, 2003 at 01:09 PM.]

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
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Posted

ah, rygel. Dear, sweet, naive rygel. "The best laid plans..." don'cha know.

 

Actually, there never was a "plan" in that we had one idea and were going to stick to it. This was an experiment. One idea would be to have the caches there before the fox, another was to have the fox set them as she goes. Perhaps in another plan, we could have some caches set for the fox to find AND set them as she goes.

 

Ya never know in this kooky world.

 

Published experts (1, 2) say with certainty that critical situations will arise which are totally unexpected.

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enfanta

enfanta

Posted
  • Author
Posted

There were four of us, bartster. I think that's the absolute rock-bottom minimum for a good hunt. I think it may have gone better with 5 or 6. I'll find out next time, I hope!

 

Published experts (1, 2) say with certainty that critical situations will arise which are totally unexpected.

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gnbrotz

+gnbrotz

Posted
Posted

My thoughts:

 

1) Knowledge of the area or a map of the area would be helpful for the fox to have, even if only to prepare for the event.

 

2) As enfanta said, larger caches would be more appropriate to the spirit of the game.

 

3) I prefer the caches being left in place during the game and collected when the event is finished.

 

4) I also prefer the "race to the den", rather than the "tag the fox" version, but I don't agree that the hounds should know where it is until they actually uncover it's coords. Just because they may cross paths with the fox, they don't know where he is in his journey, so no need to drop everything and sprint for the finish. Both parties should be required to visit ALL caches before crossing the finish line.

 

5) I too agree that four players was rock bottom. More would be better, and if the turnout were big enough, two or more seperate chases could be run at the same time.

 

6) Ideally, the fox(es) would be able to visit the area far enough in advance to be able to take the time to ensure good coords. As the fox, I feel this was my weak point, and was unable to locate two of the micros I had hidden only hours before. When I finally found them (after we called off the hunt) my coords for that particular location were off by about 80 ft. Also, I came in from a different direction than I had when hiding them, so the area didn't look familiar to me. Notes and/or pics would have been a big help, but this may not be necessary, and may even provide an unfair advantage if the caches are made bigger.

 

7) In a concept similar to orienteering, each cache would contain a unique stamp/punch that each player would use to mark a card they carried with them. Upon completion, verification could be made that each location was indeed visited. This would also add to the mystery a bit, as no one would know if the other party had visited a particular site yet, unless they actually caught a glimpse of them.

 

Greg

N 39 54.705'

W 77 33.137'

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