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Just want to know some of the users opinions on -

do you search for a unpublished cache if you see a pattern in a daily cache series?

If you do find a unpublished cache would you ever take the ftf slot on the paper or would you write your name below?

would you take the ftf prize of a unpublished cache?

all these ive encountered and imo from what i see is, the game is very simple with very few simple rules. People could add twists to how they play the game, but if it conflicts with the basic way of playing for others why ruin it by writting off ftf on paperwork and snaging the prize the day before? Ive always stuck up for what seems wrong correct me if im incorrect?

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Just want to know some of the users opinions on -

do you search for a unpublished cache if you see a pattern in a daily cache series?

If you do find a unpublished cache would you ever take the ftf slot on the paper or would you write your name below?

would you take the ftf prize of a unpublished cache?

all these ive encountered and imo from what i see is, the game is very simple with very few simple rules. People could add twists to how they play the game, but if it conflicts with the basic way of playing for others why ruin it by writting off ftf on paperwork and snaging the prize the day before? Ive always stuck up for what seems wrong correct me if im incorrect?

If I found it, then I'd sign the log.

I don't think I'd be able to guess exactly where someone would hide a cache, unless I'm doing the hiding.

I'd sign on the log's first page or first line available- just like I would on any other cache.

I don't pick up swag or FTF 'gifts' for the most part, I just like the hunt.

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This is why the "FTF game" is not a sanctioned part of geocaching.com's geocaching experience. It is a sub-game that people engage in. The issue is, there are no rules to follow, so each person has their own opinion.

 

There might be some that have general agreements on the subject, but a quick search of the forums on the topic of FTF will show that most people say that if you find it first, you are the first to find. But, if you are there when the cache is placed, you didn't really "find" it, per se.

 

As for "raiding the swag", I hope that's code for "trade up, trade even, or not trade at all"...

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do you search for a unpublished cache if you see a pattern in a daily cache series?

 

I've never encountered this. But I did once hunt for a cache, based only on encountering a geocacher on a hiking trail and guessing that he would have left a cache behind. Found it too. Signed the log and logged the find when the cache was published a day or two later.

 

If you do find a unpublished cache would you ever take the ftf slot on the paper or would you write your name below?

 

I found it first whether I sign here or there on the log. I sign at the top, generally.

 

would you take the ftf prize of a unpublished cache?

 

Most caches around me don't have a ftf prize. Haven't encountered this to know how I'd react.

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I'd sign the log and claim FTF, because I'd be the first person who had found the cache (assuming the cache later was published at that location). I wouldn't take the FTF prize, because the cache might not get published and the cache owner might want reuse it at a different location (in which case, I wouldn't be the FTF).

 

Edit to add: If I helped hide the cache, then I would not sign the log, claim a find, claim FTF, or take the FTF prize.

Edited by CanadianRockies
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I'd sign the log and claim FTF, because I'd be the first person who had found the cache (assuming the cache later was published at that location). I wouldn't take the FTF prize, because the cache might not get published and the cache owner might want reuse it at a different location (in which case, I wouldn't be the FTF).

 

Edit to add: If I helped hide the cache, then I would not sign the log, claim a find, claim FTF, or take the FTF prize.

Yeah. As for any FTF prize the owner added, I might take it, but not without contacting the owner about it. Once the cache was published, I'd be sure to note the find and scenario. I'd let the owner know that I have the FTF prize, and ask if they want me to replace it to be found by their own determination of what "FTF" means to them.

 

That's just how I'd hope it played out if it were my cache. Log the find, call it the "FTF", do a happy dance. But I'd hope that someone who found it in a way as the OP describes, I'd appreciate some humility on the part of the FTF logger--having them contact me to ask if I'm "cool with" what transpired.

 

Personally, I'd say, "Cool! That's great!". But that's just me.

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A new short series was published near me but I noticed that number 3 was missing. I then realised that the coords probably clashed with the final of a nearby multi. Following my assumption I had a good hunt for the missing cache which of course I would have been ftf before it was published. I really can't see a problem with this. When the cache was subsequently published my theory was spot on but the cache was quite sneakily hidden hence why I didn't stand much chance when I undertook my blind search previously.

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do you search for a unpublished cache if you see a pattern in a daily cache series?

No. Not as a rule. Locally, at least, caches placed in a series, (AKA: Along The Trail # 37, another crappy film can to boost your numbers), are not the kind of hunts I enjoy. Some folks love 'em, so, to each their own. I suppose, if the locals were to create a series that actually did interest me, and I saw a blank spot and suspected there might be something there, and I was nearby, I might poke about a bit. Maybe.

 

If you do find a unpublished cache would you ever take the ftf slot on the paper or would you write your name below?

Of course. Since I was the first one to actually find it, claiming the FTF would be appropriate. Like someone mentioned above, if I was there when it was hidden, I might claim it as a beta tester after the FTF was logged.

 

would you take the ftf prize of a unpublished cache?

If there was an FTF prize, and I was FTF? I think I would.

 

correct me if im incorrect?

I really don't think there is a correct, or incorrect answer here.

I've explained how I play, and it seems to be in line with how others I know play. Does that make it correct? Maybe. Maybe not.

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Technically it's not a geocache until it get's published. :unsure:

 

I would make this a little more detailed: its not a geocache listed through Groundspeak until it gets published on this site.

 

I do not make it a habit to go out and look for unpublished caches. I found one because I knew the CO had been somewhere in the area earlier that day. I had stopped to look at a heron and thought that the owner might have considered it to be a hiding spot. I was right. I signed the first line. I did not claim the FTF because I never use those initials. I did count it, though, when I was compiling a list of 100 "firsts" for a challenge cache.

 

Friends have found caches before they were published in more unlikely areas. One person found an unpublished cache off a deer trail underneath a rock. We all wondered how he did that. I still wonder. I think he may have used the initials and I did not complain when I came there second.

Edited by geodarts
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This is why the "FTF game" is not a sanctioned part of geocaching.com's geocaching experience. It is a sub-game that people engage in. The issue is, there are no rules to follow, so each person has their own opinion.

What do you mean by sanctioned?

I mean that Geocaching.com and Groundspeak do not regulate the participation in, or host possible guidelines of a FTF hunt. They allow and sometimes, it could be argued, encourage a FTF race, yes. But that doesn't mean that it has an official place in the game.

 

Groundspeak does not have First-to-find guidelines listed anywhere that I've found. The FTF game is, however "sanctioned" by the greater geocaching (small "g") community. However, there are many different ways the FTF game is played. Just a simple search of the forums will show you the differences, angst, and opinions on the sub-game of "FTFs". We are welcome to use the geocaches listed on Geocaching.com to play our own sub-games if we so choose. However, without any clear guidelines listed anywhere, it is far from an officially "sanctioned" part of the Geocaching (big "g") game.

 

Now, we can discuss the community-based rationale for simple guidelines for the game, but there is nobody to "enforce" said guidelines except for each individual owner. Therein is what I meant when discussing how I would like this handled as a cache owner. We are all welcome to voice our opinions, but the FTF sub-game discussion always goes in circles.

Edited by NeverSummer
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FTF is the first person to locate a cache and sign its log. No matter how they found or stumbled across it. That is just a fact.

 

FTF and 2 quarters will get a pop over at the Coke Machine on Main Street. Come to think of it - the 2 quarters work equally well.

 

...and just where are all these FTF 'rules' written down at????

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Thanks for the replies, it being unregulated seems to be not so much of a deal to me now. Thought it wasnt right at the time. I kinda overreacted on a cacher who found the next unpublished cache a day early.. logged ftf and grabbed the prize. If you are on here and happen to read this i appologize. This is a really entertaining game,and all the cachers we met so far have been really friendly. Personally i still would not fill out the top side of the notepad or grab the published days prize,but like everyone is stating. Each to their own.

Happy caching

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This is why the "FTF game" is not a sanctioned part of geocaching.com's geocaching experience. It is a sub-game that people engage in. The issue is, there are no rules to follow, so each person has their own opinion.

What do you mean by sanctioned?

I mean that Geocaching.com and Groundspeak do not regulate the participation in, or host possible guidelines of a FTF hunt. They allow and sometimes, it could be argued, encourage a FTF race, yes. But that doesn't mean that it has an official place in the game.

 

Groundspeak does not have First-to-find guidelines listed anywhere that I've found. The FTF game is, however "sanctioned" by the greater geocaching (small "g") community. However, there are many different ways the FTF game is played. Just a simple search of the forums will show you the differences, angst, and opinions on the sub-game of "FTFs". We are welcome to use the geocaches listed on Geocaching.com to play our own sub-games if we so choose. However, without any clear guidelines listed anywhere, it is far from an officially "sanctioned" part of the Geocaching (big "g") game.

 

Now, we can discuss the community-based rationale for simple guidelines for the game, but there is nobody to "enforce" said guidelines except for each individual owner. Therein is what I meant when discussing how I would like this handled as a cache owner. We are all welcome to voice our opinions, but the FTF sub-game discussion always goes in circles.

OK, I agree. GC.com surely does promote FTF though.

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I'll likely start posting my hides on my blog before publishing as a reward for visiting my blog. Haven't done it yet (do have some awaiting publishing now) but likely will do it more once I'm in Florida. I think rewarding folks for reading/visiting my (v)blog is fair. I'll always not both on the page as FTF from blog and the FTF from published time frame.

Edited by TheWeatherWarrior
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I tried once when I saw a pattern. But gave up when I couldn't find them and waited til they got published. I have found puzzle caches that way. An area well known for puzzle caches I was trying only to find trads and noticed a few gaps with no caches. I did the Geosense thing and came up with 3 puzzles. I contacted the CO and he said if I found it that way then I deserved the finds even if I didn't solve the puzzles. (found which puzzles they were by the names on the log sheets in order of dates).

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This is why the "FTF game" is not a sanctioned part of geocaching.com's geocaching experience. It is a sub-game that people engage in. The issue is, there are no rules to follow, so each person has their own opinion.

 

There might be some that have general agreements on the subject, but a quick search of the forums on the topic of FTF will show that most people say that if you find it first, you are the first to find. But, if you are there when the cache is placed, you didn't really "find" it, per se.

 

As for "raiding the swag", I hope that's code for "trade up, trade even, or not trade at all"...

Oh we trade fairly specially in good caches with blood swag

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do you search for a unpublished cache if you see a pattern in a daily cache series?

First, I'd need to pay enough attention to recently published caches to notice the pattern. But in the unlikely event that I noticed the pattern, it might be fun to search for an unpublished cache in the series.

 

If you do find a unpublished cache would you ever take the ftf slot on the paper or would you write your name below?

Assuming that I was the FTF, sure. But not if someone else had already signed the log of the unpublished cache.

 

would you take the ftf prize of a unpublished cache?

Probably not, but I don't really play the FTF game and I don't expect an FTF prize. (I've never left an FTF prize either.) But I might trade for a personal signature item if one were in the cache.

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I think FTF on unpublished caches is fair game so long as you did not have "inside information" from the CO. Accidental FTF or FTF by guessing a pattern along a trail is fine.

 

..or getting the coords emailed to you from the CO, someone wo helped them place it or off a post on a blog or FB. All are valid FTFs. Even if GS were to ever sanction the FTF game (doubtful) this would not change.

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I once tried to claim FTF on a cache that was, then unpublished. A few weeks earlier I'd heard some cachers talking about placing some caches in a general area (a fairly big, busy plaza at a university). Based on that, I thought that, because I was in the area, I ought to take a look to see what I could see while waiting for the spouse. After poking around for some time, I came up with a cache. I signed and logged it. Then the FTF after the publication made me feel like a jerk. :P

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Just want to know some of the users opinions on -

do you search for a unpublished cache if you see a pattern in a daily cache series?

If you do find a unpublished cache would you ever take the ftf slot on the paper or would you write your name below?

would you take the ftf prize of a unpublished cache?

all these ive encountered and imo from what i see is, the game is very simple with very few simple rules. People could add twists to how they play the game, but if it conflicts with the basic way of playing for others why ruin it by writting off ftf on paperwork and snaging the prize the day before? Ive always stuck up for what seems wrong correct me if im incorrect?

no REAL cacher would EVER go after much less log a FTF on an unpublished cache. a cache only becomes REAL once it's published on the GC.com site and is fair game for all members.

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Heck ya, if I was so lucky, I would sign the logbook and log it online as soon as it was published. :D

 

I'm not sure if I'd take the FTF prize or not. If it was a puzzle it would be especially unfair to take the prize. I might claim 'FTF before publishing' in my online log, although I don't think anybody around here would really care if I simply claimed 'FTF.

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This is why the "FTF game" is not a sanctioned part of geocaching.com's geocaching experience. It is a sub-game that people engage in. The issue is, there are no rules to follow, so each person has their own opinion.

 

There might be some that have general agreements on the subject, but a quick search of the forums on the topic of FTF will show that most people say that if you find it first, you are the first to find. But, if you are there when the cache is placed, you didn't really "find" it, per se.

 

As for "raiding the swag", I hope that's code for "trade up, trade even, or not trade at all"...

Oh we trade fairly specially in good caches with blood swag

 

What's "blood swag"? :unsure:

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Heck ya, if I was so lucky, I would sign the logbook and log it online as soon as it was published. :D

 

I'm not sure if I'd take the FTF prize or not. If it was a puzzle it would be especially unfair to take the prize. I might claim 'FTF before publishing' in my online log, although I don't think anybody around here would really care if I simply claimed 'FTF.

 

How about just "claiming" that you found it and leave out the rest of the FTF claim nonsense.

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Heck ya, if I was so lucky, I would sign the logbook and log it online as soon as it was published. :D

 

I'm not sure if I'd take the FTF prize or not. If it was a puzzle it would be especially unfair to take the prize. I might claim 'FTF before publishing' in my online log, although I don't think anybody around here would really care if I simply claimed 'FTF.

 

How about just "claiming" that you found it and leave out the rest of the FTF claim nonsense.

 

That's what I've been doing. Logging them like all the others I find. No mention of FTF or nothin'.

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no REAL cacher would EVER go after much less log a FTF on an unpublished cache. a cache only becomes REAL once it's published on the GC.com site and is fair game for all members.

 

In your reality, perhaps. :blink:

 

In my reality (which tends to overlap with a lot of other folks' realities) the CONTAINER became a CACHE the moment the owner placed the log inside it. It's obviously available to have it's log signed once the owner places it and takes their hand away.

 

Heck, if I saw a geocacher's car parked with an ammo can in the back seat and the window open, I'd sign the log right there! :P

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I had something along these lines happen to me once. A local puzzler was putting out a series of caches, roughly one every three days or so. The cache page had a riddle/trivia question whose answer became the password to a (apparently) randomly named website which had another puzzle on it. Solving that puzzle gave you the coords to the cache.

 

On the morning that number, oh 5 or 6 was published, I quickly solved the riddle, then the second puzzle. Since the coords weren't too far out of my way in to work, I stopped by for the find. I was there about 25 minutes after publishing. I was surprised to find that there was only one name on the log already, it with a date of two days earlier.

 

After I logged my find, the FTF'er sheepishly admitted that he had noticed a pattern in the location of the other websites "random" names, and found the locked website with the secondary puzzle. A couple of guesses as to the password, and he had the secondary puzzle in front of him a few days before publication.

 

Discussion between the FTF'er, the CO and me led to this result:

 

1. The FTF'er has an FTF

2. I have a smiley

3. The CO changed his naming method to something truly more random.

 

Sure, I was disappointed not to have an FTF, but He earned it--in an unorthodox way perhaps, but still. It did point out to me that there are sometimes clues not on a given puzzle cache webpage that may help find a particular cache.

 

-rosebud55112

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This is why the "FTF game" is not a sanctioned part of geocaching.com's geocaching experience. It is a sub-game that people engage in. The issue is, there are no rules to follow, so each person has their own opinion.

 

There might be some that have general agreements on the subject, but a quick search of the forums on the topic of FTF will show that most people say that if you find it first, you are the first to find. But, if you are there when the cache is placed, you didn't really "find" it, per se.

 

As for "raiding the swag", I hope that's code for "trade up, trade even, or not trade at all"...

Oh we trade fairly specially in good caches with blood swag

 

What's "blood swag"? :unsure:

Good my tablet likes to auto correct

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Heck ya, if I was so lucky, I would sign the logbook and log it online as soon as it was published. :D

 

I'm not sure if I'd take the FTF prize or not. If it was a puzzle it would be especially unfair to take the prize. I might claim 'FTF before publishing' in my online log, although I don't think anybody around here would really care if I simply claimed 'FTF.

 

How about just "claiming" that you found it and leave out the rest of the FTF claim nonsense.

 

Why should I? You may not care about FTF, but people here (including me, as a cached owner) are interested in who was FTF.

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Heck ya, if I was so lucky, I would sign the logbook and log it online as soon as it was published. :D

 

I'm not sure if I'd take the FTF prize or not. If it was a puzzle it would be especially unfair to take the prize. I might claim 'FTF before publishing' in my online log, although I don't think anybody around here would really care if I simply claimed 'FTF.

 

How about just "claiming" that you found it and leave out the rest of the FTF claim nonsense.

 

Why should I? You may not care about FTF, but people here (including me, as a cached owner) are interested in who was FTF.

 

A few people here may be interested...but most people who find the cache could care less who found it first. The logbook/sheet shows who was first to find. That's all

that is necessary to the cache owner, if they are interested.

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most people who find the cache could care less who found it first. The logbook/sheet shows who was first to find. That's all

that is necessary to the cache owner, if they are interested.

 

"most people"? I think it's fine to say that you, personally, are not interested, but you can't speak for other people. I know people in my area *are* interested because they will ask 'who was FTF?' when talking about a new cache.

 

It's custom here for the FTF to announce themselves in their online log. As a cache owner, unless I go out and look at the physical logbook, there's no way for me to know unless they put it on their online log.

 

I put out 4 new caches yesterday and got some great FTF logs this morning. Always look forward to those logs!

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Ooh, look, another much anticipated FTF log just came in: :)

 

wrooster found M - Alphabet Soup (Traditional Cache) at 4/22/2013

 

Log Date: 4/22/2013

Looks like somehow the Midnight Marauders (the Go! TeaM) Missed this cache. I was able to make a quick FTF for this one after taking a ridiculously circuitous route to get here. I had no idea how lucky I was until I attempted the nearby D cache in this series (took me a lllloooonnnngggg time).

 

I don't think I'd want to put this in my soup, but a few years ago there was a series on CBC radio where a guest chef would explain how to prepare this kind of , ummm, delicacy ([?]).

 

Thanks for the fun Incredibles[:)]

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I have found many caches before they got published. Almost all but one or two were because they were on power trails and some got published but the remainder hadn't been by the time I went to go find them. In these cases the caches were fairly uniform and hidden in similar manners, so you knew what you were looking for and how far apart the caches were (tubes hidden on high way delineater posts).

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I have found many caches before they got published. Almost all but one or two were because they were on power trails and some got published but the remainder hadn't been by the time I went to go find them. In these cases the caches were fairly uniform and hidden in similar manners, so you knew what you were looking for and how far apart the caches were (tubes hidden on high way delineater posts).

I was with a group when we did the same thing. We found out where the trail was going to start and we spread out and started looking. Once we found the first one we marked the cache and headed out every .10 and found 135 unpublished caches for FTFs. One of the best times I've had caching. My daughter(7 at the time) was making fake hiding spots with rocks for the cachers behind us. Hey she was having fun making piles til we found the cache and moved on to the next one. Those same cachers still tease me when they see us. All in good fun.

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You win. Canadians are so much more polite than us.

 

Most people would agree with that.

 

Well, thanks. That's probably the first (and last) argument I'll win on this forum. :)

 

Here's my obnoxious FTF log from last night:

 

Found it Found it

04/25/2013

 

FTF at 11:50pm!! Woo hoo!!

 

This one was a lot of fun for a couple of reasons. First of all, it was my birthday today and it's nice to have a FTF on your birthday. Second, I did it by bike! Mr Incredible had taken the cachemobile to work and I saw this new one published only 1km from my home...what to do...what to do..? After a bit of indecision, I decided to go for it. After pumping the bike tires, I set off into the night. There was hardly any traffic so biking down McKenzie was a pleasure. I arrived at GZ surprisingly quick, but it was not the GZ that I had expected. I was thinking it would be on the nearby walking path where another cache had been, but no, it wasn't. I poked around a bit on the wrong side of the path, then crossed over and made the find. Success! I knew islandfinders would be on his way, so I hung around a bit and sure enough he showed up. We had a little chat about caching and how sensible people were in bed at midnight, not chasing after FTFs.

 

Thanks so much Nicklbe for the FTF prize and all the fun tonight!

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FTF is the first person to locate a cache and sign its log. No matter how they found or stumbled across it. That is just a fact.

 

FTF and 2 quarters will get a pop over at the Coke Machine on Main Street. Come to think of it - the 2 quarters work equally well.

 

...and just where are all these FTF 'rules' written down at????

 

So where is this Coke machine? Feeling kinda thirsty...especially at $0.50 for a can of Coke.

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