Continue releasing country based souvenirs

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Just back from India, and would love a flag souvenir to encourage Geocachers from one of the world's most populated countries to get involved. China should also be recognised as a priority to promote the game.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if China made the cut for the next batch of new Country souvenirs that GS releases. The criteria for releasing a country based souvenir has mostly been based on the number of caches in the country (not the number of people) and China is just two spots below Turkey, which got one in the last batch. Geocaching is also growing, at least in Beijing, pretty fast. I was surprised at how many new caches there were from a previous visit in 2011 until a visit there a couple of months ago. India, however, still has a lot of countries ahead of it with more caches.

 

 

[+LosTresViajeros]

It seems to me that there are a lot of countries still missing. I inquired about some countries in Europe just this week, and got this reply:

 

Hello - Thank you for contacting us at Geocaching HQ. We'd like a souvenir for every country, event, special date, etc., however, we have limited resources and must prioritize different projects since we're a small company. All our souvenirs are done in-house by our Creative Team who work directly with local reviewers in each area, our developers, senior management team, and other staff. We have a growing list of all the requested country souvenirs, and we hope to address them all in the near future. So stay tuned! If you wish to access the list of available Souvenirs, they can be found here. Please let me know if I can help you with anything else. Janelle Geocaching Community Manager

 

(As an answer to this:)

Hi there, I'm writing from Austria. I just returned from a trip across half of Europe where I passed / visited / logged in several small countries like Liechtenstein, Andorra, and Monaco: Nevertheless they are independent countries [...] and should be represented in the souvenirs as well. I'm moreover more than astonished that resident cachers of those countries haven't urged you yet to put their flag badges online. What can you tell me about this? Thx a lot in advance, LosTresViajeros P.S.: What about San Marino, Vatican, and Malta (all not visited yet), and all the other microstates ?

I mean, for what do we pay a hefty annual membership fee other than having the stuff set up properly in the web... What's your opinion on this? L3V.

[+EngPhil]

I mean, for what do we pay a hefty annual membership fee other than having the stuff set up properly in the web... What's your opinion on this? L3V.

Personally, I pay it for the PQ and notification functionality, as well as to be able to seek out PMO caches.

 

I really couldn't care much less about souvenirs, and would much prefer my membership fee went to providing functionality that has been long requested (notification enhancements, say, or being able to edit coords for all cache types) and fixing long-standing bugs (timezones, anyone?) rather than frivolous artwork (and reinventing communications mechanisms....)

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I mean, for what do we pay a hefty annual membership fee other than having the stuff set up properly in the web... What's your opinion on this? L3V.

Personally, I pay it for the PQ and notification functionality, as well as to be able to seek out PMO caches.

 

I really couldn't care much less about souvenirs, and would much prefer my membership fee went to providing functionality that has been long requested (notification enhancements, say, or being able to edit coords for all cache types) and fixing long-standing bugs (timezones, anyone?) rather than frivolous artwork (and reinventing communications mechanisms....)

 

I understand that some people are not interested in souvenirs but the fact that this thread has 4 pages of responses and there are numerous other threads started by people wondering why they didn't get a souvenir for finding a cache is some country suggests that there are are many that are interested in seeing GS continue to release country based souvenirs. Just look at all the different threads and posts about this summers GC Mission souvenirs and it's pretty obvious that a lot of people like having GS spend time developing souvenirs in general.

 

 

[+noncentric]

It seems to me that there are a lot of countries still missing. I inquired about some countries in Europe just this week, and got this reply:

 

Hello - Thank you for contacting us at Geocaching HQ. We'd like a souvenir for every country, event, special date, etc., however, we have limited resources and must prioritize different projects since we're a small company. All our souvenirs are done in-house by our Creative Team who work directly with local reviewers in each area, our developers, senior management team, and other staff. We have a growing list of all the requested country souvenirs, and we hope to address them all in the near future. So stay tuned! If you wish to access the list of available Souvenirs, they can be found here. Please let me know if I can help you with anything else. Janelle Geocaching Community Manager

 

(As an answer to this:)

Hi there, I'm writing from Austria. I just returned from a trip across half of Europe where I passed / visited / logged in several small countries like Liechtenstein, Andorra, and Monaco: Nevertheless they are independent countries [...] and should be represented in the souvenirs as well. I'm moreover more than astonished that resident cachers of those countries haven't urged you yet to put their flag badges online. What can you tell me about this? Thx a lot in advance, LosTresViajeros P.S.: What about San Marino, Vatican, and Malta (all not visited yet), and all the other microstates ?

I mean, for what do we pay a hefty annual membership fee other than having the stuff set up properly in the web... What's your opinion on this? L3V.

My personal opinion is that you were sent a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. You asked about additional country souvenirs and received a reply stating that GS aims to provide more country souvenirs when resources are available.

[+redrob45]

I was disappointed to find that there was no souvenir for Vietnam or Tanzania. I worked so hard to find a geocache there--primarily in the hopes of another souvenir. Is there any hope they will come out later? I plan to look for one in Nepal next year.

[+Rugged Fox]

I'd be pretty thrilled to see Iraq and Afghanistan added. I discovered geocaching after my deployment to Iraq, was surprised to discover how many caches I had walked past on the base I was stationed at. When I got to Afghanistan I made a point to search for at least one in my limited down time in the hopes of getting a new country added to my list. No such luck.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I'd be pretty thrilled to see Iraq and Afghanistan added. I discovered geocaching after my deployment to Iraq, was surprised to discover how many caches I had walked past on the base I was stationed at. When I got to Afghanistan I made a point to search for at least one in my limited down time in the hopes of getting a new country added to my list. No such luck.

 

Your stats show Afghanistan in the list of countries in which you've found a cache. You just don't have a souvenir on your souvenirs tab for it.

 

 

[+GCZ Team]

We totally agree that it is about time Groundspeak used some of our membership fees to start designing and releasing many new country souvenirs. We inquired about Israel, and got the standard, set stock reply everyone else gets about in house design and resource management. If they are that stressed for funds, we can design them some souvenirs! Take notice of the forum posts, Groundspeak, and get working on some of them!

[+ChrisDen]

I would like to add my voice to the request for country souvenirs to be moved up the priority list. It does not seem fair that there are souvenirs for states of some countries but others are missed out.

Simple country flags for the smaller countries would suffice. Similar to the country badges in BadgeGen.

The system issues should also be easy to resolve.

[+pseudoprime]

Looks like more are coming out soon:

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2016/11/nouveaux-souvenirs-de-pays-cest-pour-bientot/

 

I couldn't find this announcement in English; presumably that will be posted soon?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Looks like more are coming out soon:

https://www.geocachi...t-pour-bientot/

 

I couldn't find this announcement in English; presumably that will be posted soon?

 

A google translate into English:

 

"Have you planned your trips for 2017?

 

One of the coolest things with geocaching is that it is played around the world in so many different ways. To celebrate this, we will create five new country memories each week in the coming weeks!

 

If you have already found a cache in one of these countries, you will automatically receive the remembrance on your profile. The memories currently available can be found here. You can check out those you've already earned by checking your Souvenirs on Geocaching.com.

 

Stay tuned for the announcement of the first new country memories in the next week's Geocaching newsletter."

 

If that's five per week, for a total of 25, that should cover quite a few of the countries people have asked about. Depending on how far they go I could get as many as 5 new country based souvenirs for countries in which I have already found a cache.

 

[+The A-Team]

Looks like more are coming out soon:

https://www.geocachi...t-pour-bientot/

 

I couldn't find this announcement in English; presumably that will be posted soon?

 

A google translate into English:

 

"Have you planned your trips for 2017?

 

One of the coolest things with geocaching is that it is played around the world in so many different ways. To celebrate this, we will create five new country memories each week in the coming weeks!

 

If you have already found a cache in one of these countries, you will automatically receive the remembrance on your profile. The memories currently available can be found here. You can check out those you've already earned by checking your Souvenirs on Geocaching.com.

 

Stay tuned for the announcement of the first new country memories in the next week's Geocaching newsletter."

 

If that's five per week, for a total of 25, that should cover quite a few of the countries people have asked about. Depending on how far they go I could get as many as 5 new country based souvenirs for countries in which I have already found a cache.

Interesting. I'm wondering if it's really 5 per week for an unspecified number of weeks, or 1 each week for 5 weeks? I think the latter is the way they've done it in the past. If they're actually going to be releasing more than 5 in this batch, then that's really good news and makes it more hopeful that they'll actually get through the rest of the remaining countries within our lifetimes.

[Keystone]

Here is a native English statement, from this week's newsletter:

 

One of the coolest things about geocaching is that it's played by people around the world in so many different ways. To celebrate this, we're releasing five new country souvenirs over the next few weeks!

 

If you’ve already found a geocache in any of these countries, you’ll automatically receive the souvenir on your profile. Souvenirs that are currently available can be found here. You can view which ones you’ve already earned by checking out your Souvenirs on Geocaching.com.

 

Stay tuned for the first new country souvenirs announcement in next week’s Geocaching newsletter.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Here is a native English statement, from this week's newsletter:

 

One of the coolest things about geocaching is that it's played by people around the world in so many different ways. To celebrate this, we're releasing five new country souvenirs over the next few weeks!

 

If you've already found a geocache in any of these countries, you'll automatically receive the souvenir on your profile. Souvenirs that are currently available can be found here. You can view which ones you've already earned by checking out your Souvenirs on Geocaching.com.

 

Stay tuned for the first new country souvenirs announcement in next week's Geocaching newsletter.

 

It looks like Google translate gave me false hope that there would be 25 new souvenirs. With only 5 new souvenirs a year I probably won't ever get a souvenir for my finds in Ethiopia in my lifetime and ironically that's a country for which they've already created artwork.

 

If GS uses the same algorithm for releasing country/region souvenirs (based on the number of caches in the country) the next five on the list (according to project-gc) are:

 

Hong Kong

Taiwan

Israel

China

Argentina

 

The next five would be

 

Cyprus

Puerto Rico

Isle of Man

United Arab Emirates

Russia

 

Predictions?

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by NYPaddleCacher

[+The A-Team]

If GS uses the same algorithm for releasing country/region souvenirs (based on the number of caches in the country) the next five on the list (according to project-gc) are:

 

Hong Kong

Taiwan

Israel

China

Argentina

 

The next five would be

 

Cyprus

Puerto Rico

Isle of Man

United Arab Emirates

Russia

 

Predictions?

My prediction? That your predictions are correct.

 

The way those groups naturally fall gives some geographical diversity and I think it's likely that this is the way they'll go. For example, the first five includes three Asian countries (albeit all China-related in one way or another), one Middle East, and one South America. The following five include one Mediterranean, one Caribbean, one northern Europe, one Middle East, and one Asia. I see no reason to think they'll go off the board in this batch, or the next one if those next five countries remain in those positions on the list.

 

I'm just disappointed that the release schedule isn't being accelerated. I don't think I'll ever be getting my Vatican City souvenir at this rate. I would have thought that the performance impact of the remaining countries would be negligible and that they could come up with artwork faster than 5 per year, but I guess there are other constraints.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If GS uses the same algorithm for releasing country/region souvenirs (based on the number of caches in the country) the next five on the list (according to project-gc) are:

 

Hong Kong

Taiwan

Israel

China

Argentina

 

The next five would be

 

Cyprus

Puerto Rico

Isle of Man

United Arab Emirates

Russia

 

Predictions?

My prediction? That your predictions are correct.

 

The way those groups naturally fall gives some geographical diversity and I think it's likely that this is the way they'll go. For example, the first five includes three Asian countries (albeit all China-related in one way or another), one Middle East, and one South America. The following five include one Mediterranean, one Caribbean, one northern Europe, one Middle East, and one Asia. I see no reason to think they'll go off the board in this batch, or the next one if those next five countries remain in those positions on the list.

 

I'm just disappointed that the release schedule isn't being accelerated. I don't think I'll ever be getting my Vatican City souvenir at this rate. I would have thought that the performance impact of the remaining countries would be negligible and that they could come up with artwork faster than 5 per year, but I guess there are other constraints.

 

After posting that I thought about revising my prediction based on the idea that these souvenirs are supposed to be about celebrating geographic diversity. I might have gone with:

 

Israel

China

Argentina

Isle of Man

United Arab Emirates

 

That would also include a couple of countries that have been specifically asked about.

 

I also wish that they'd ramp up the release of more country/region based souvenirs. I'd much rather see these types of souvenirs than the "find a cache on halloween weekend" type. In every other form of collecting it is the rare, hard to find/obtain items that are the most coveted. As country/regional based souvenir for less visited countries are released, each of them becomes more rare and more difficult to obtain. When a souvenir is so easy to obtain that one has to do nothing more than finding a cache on a specific day or weekend it feel more like an award than a souvenir.

[+SheepOnTrip]

I also wish that they'd ramp up the release of more country/region based souvenirs. I'd much rather see these types of souvenirs than the "find a cache on halloween weekend" type.

 

I'm with you on that.

 

And I must add: Since Geocaching strive to be worldwide, it should be less North America, sometimes Europe, oriented. With exception of NZ+Australia, the souvenirs almost ignore completely the world beyond North America and Europe. ONE country in all of Africa, One in South America. I think there's 3 for all of Asia, the largest continant of all. Designing a souvenir takes an hour tops, and can be done by volunteers here as well - just a flag, a country name - that's all it takes to bring more continants to the game.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I also wish that they'd ramp up the release of more country/region based souvenirs. I'd much rather see these types of souvenirs than the "find a cache on halloween weekend" type.

 

I'm with you on that.

 

And I must add: Since Geocaching strive to be worldwide, it should be less North America, sometimes Europe, oriented. With exception of NZ+Australia, the souvenirs almost ignore completely the world beyond North America and Europe. ONE country in all of Africa, One in South America. I think there's 3 for all of Asia, the largest continant of all.

 

Actually it's 3 1/2 for Asia. The continental boundary between Europe and Asia is the Bosphorus river that runs through the middle of Istanbul and it's actually shown as part of Asia on the Statistics tab. The U.S., Canada, most countries in Europe, and Australia probably account for the vast majority of geocaches (and geocachers) in the world so it's not too surprising that GS has created a feature which caters to most geocachers. I have long been a big advocate for celebrating the geographic diversity of geocaching but realistically understand that from a business point of view that GS is going to focus on the largest demographic.

 

Designing a souvenir takes an hour tops, and can be done by volunteers here as well - just a flag, a country name - that's all it takes to bring more continants to the game.

 

I think you may be underestimating the issues and work involved in creating the artwork for souvenirs. Sure, just a country name and a flag could be used, but like a souvenir I might buy in the real world I appreciate something that is a little more artistic and representative of the people, culture, or unique geography of a place I visit. There are also political implications and there have been quite a few complaints about souvenirs that citizens of a country felt did not adequately represented their country.

 

 

[+SheepOnTrip]

Yes, but a lot of souvenirs are super basic in design - New Zealand for instance, Spain, Korea... Also, they can always ask the community to suggest designs of their own, that will be a nice activity and another way to get people involve.

 

Turkey being in Asia is technicality. If it wasn't also in Europe, it wouldn't get souvenir so fast. I think it's the same with Mexico - it is easy for US citizens to get to, so it was a priority to get a souvenir.

 

Even from commercial point, geocaching.com can only benefit from adding more and more people from different country to the game. And there are some wonderfull communities I have encounter in some places in Asia, and when there's a live community it grows bigger and better. Also, it's huge fun to meet the little community in places like this, and as a stranger find a fast joined interest with locals and make new friends. I think it's one of my favorite things about geocaching.

So give the world outside of Europe some souvenirs!!!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Yes, but a lot of souvenirs are super basic in design - New Zealand for instance, Spain, Korea... Also, they can always ask the community to suggest designs of their own, that will be a nice activity and another way to get people involve.

 

It sounds like you're looking at the thumbnail for the souvenirs and not the full artwork. Try clicking on thumbnail image for each souvenir on your souvenirs page. The thumbnail for Spain is very basic but the full artwork is quite nice as is the one for South Korea.

 

 

 

Turkey being in Asia is technicality. If it wasn't also in Europe, it wouldn't get souvenir so fast. I think it's the same with Mexico - it is easy for US citizens to get to, so it was a priority to get a souvenir.

 

 

I live in the U.S. and ironically only found a cache in Mexico after finding caches in 22 other countries. I live about 3 hours from the Canadian border and still haven't found one in Canada. While I travel a fair amount I don't travel specifically to go geocaching or obtain a souvenir.

 

Even from commercial point, geocaching.com can only benefit from adding more and more people from different country to the game. And there are some wonderfull communities I have encounter in some places in Asia, and when there's a live community it grows bigger and better. Also, it's huge fun to meet the little community in places like this, and as a stranger find a fast joined interest with locals and make new friends. I think it's one of my favorite things about geocaching.

So give the world outside of Europe some souvenirs!!!

 

I completely agree with you here. Take a look at the first post in this thread and who started it.

 

 

[+hzoi]

And I must add: Since Geocaching strive to be worldwide, it should be less North America, sometimes Europe, oriented.

With the exception of Iceland, the release of souvenirs has almost exactly tracked the ranking of countries by active caches.

 

Geocaching started in the United States and initially required investing in a standalone GPSr and a reliable internet connection. Even as the game has become more accessible to anyone with a smart phone and a data plan, that still excludes some areas just by virtue of infrastructure. It's a reality of life that there are more geocachers and geocaches in South Carolina than there are in South Sudan, and I think it's a little unrealistic to expect souvenirs to level the playing field.

 

I started geocaching in Germany, back before there were even foreign language versions of the site available, so I have also felt excluded by region at times. (It can even feel that way between the Pacific Northwest versus the rest of North America.)

 

At the end of the day, we've come a long way, but we've a ways to go.

[+SheepOnTrip]

And yet again - a tiny territory of the United States gets one of the 5 new souvenirs over countries with more caches.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I see my nephew got new souvenirs for China and Singapore!

[+SheepOnTrip]

I see that the reasons of "N.America and Europe are first because it goes by number of caches" is not true. I mean, Singapore doesn't even got close to 1000 caches...

I wonder how they pick them.

[+MartyBartfast]

I see that the reasons of "N.America and Europe are first because it goes by number of caches" is not true. I mean, Singapore doesn't even got close to 1000 caches...

I wonder how they pick them.

 

Maybe they're doing it based on the number of finds logged in a country, rather than the number of caches? That would mean that largely the countries with the most caches would usually have the most finds, but there could be odd anomalies where somewhere with a smaller number of caches could have more finds than another country which has more hides.

 

Or maybe they have a map on the wall and just throw 5 darts at it

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I see that the reasons of "N.America and Europe are first because it goes by number of caches" is not true. I mean, Singapore doesn't even got close to 1000 caches...

I wonder how they pick them.

 

They're getting down to where any country which does not yet have a souvenir will only have around 1000 caches. China only has 1363, but when I first found a cache there in 2010 there were only about 300 caches. There are only a handful of countries which do not yet have a souvenir with more than 1000 caches.

[+SheepOnTrip]

They're getting down to where any country which does not yet have a souvenir will only have around 1000 caches. China only has 1363, but when I first found a cache there in 2010 there were only about 300 caches. There are only a handful of countries which do not yet have a souvenir with more than 1000 caches.

 

There are quite a few. Romania has more than 2000. Taiwan has about 1600. Hong Kong has 1800. Argentina with more than 1200. Israel with more than 1400. Cypruss has 1000. That's a few I could think of, it might be more.

 

So my question stands: why ignoring countries with more caches for a place like Singapore? I get that Russia & China are a huge land mass so can't be ignored. But why picking Singapre (about 500 caches!) or promoting Puerto Rico (with 1000) over others? I'm just trying to understand the logic behind it.

[+hzoi]

They're getting down to where any country which does not yet have a souvenir will only have around 1000 caches. China only has 1363, but when I first found a cache there in 2010 there were only about 300 caches. There are only a handful of countries which do not yet have a souvenir with more than 1000 caches.

 

There are quite a few. Romania has more than 2000. Taiwan has about 1600. Hong Kong has 1800. Argentina with more than 1200. Israel with more than 1400. Cypruss has 1000. That's a few I could think of, it might be more.

 

So my question stands: why ignoring countries with more caches for a place like Singapore? I get that Russia & China are a huge land mass so can't be ignored. But why picking Singapre (about 500 caches!) or promoting Puerto Rico (with 1000) over others? I'm just trying to understand the logic behind it.

 

In the past, it has been by popularity. Perhaps they didn't want to encourage countries without souvenirs to bump themselves up in the queue by planting power trails. Or maybe they just wanted to mix things up. Hard to say, as although Groundspeak obviously announces where new souvenirs will be awarded, they seldom go into the why.

[+SheepOnTrip]

In the past, it has been by popularity. Perhaps they didn't want to encourage countries without souvenirs to bump themselves up in the queue by planting power trails.

 

I don't think anyone is investing in bogus caches just for a souvenir. Too much effort for not much gain... Also, good geo-trails are a positive thing.

 

I've been to countries that aren't Europians/Americans, which started to develop step by step a small and proud geocaching community, and sometimes people say they feel a bit outsiders as the site is more oriented to other parts of the world. In Korea the community is tiny but has been very active in placing caches and having events, and every small recognition is a lot, like getting a souvenir a year or 2 ago or getting the first "cache of the week" in the country on the site's blog. Being to Taiwan, and seeing the friendship that grew between cachers and how this little community shows a lot of hospitality to visitors like me, I think their efforts deserves at list that much.

I think making souvenirs is not requiring much effort for the site, and also can be helped by volunteering designers from the cachers themselves. So why not making more for eknowledging more parts of the world and adding them to the world community.

[Keystone]

I think making souvenirs is not requiring much effort for the site, and also can be helped by volunteering designers from the cachers themselves. So why not making more for eknowledging more parts of the world and adding them to the world community.

You're welcome to your opinion, but the process of putting a new geographic-based souvenir on the site and awarding it retroactively is not as easy as whipping up some digital artwork. (This has been explained on several occasions previously.) Event/date-based souvenirs are easier to implement, which helps explain why these appear fairly regularly. Given limited resources, geographic-based souvenirs have been added at a fairly slow pace (such as the five new ones this year). Eventually the list of country souvenirs will fill out. Until then, asking "why Singapore over Taiwan?" is sort of like asking which of your kids you love the most. There are lots of great geocaching communities out there, for sure.

[+MartyBartfast]

 

... (This has been explained on several occasions previously.) ...

 

Actually I've never seen it explained by anyone with any authority or knowlege, all I've ever seen is speculation.

 

I'd be interested to see a reference or link to the explainations.

[Keystone]

One of the best summaries about Souvenir implementation challenges was written by Moun10Bike. You can read it here.

[+MartyBartfast]

One of the best summaries about Souvenir implementation challenges was written by Moun10Bike. You can read it here.

 

Thanks, an interesting read.

[+SheepOnTrip]

but the process of putting a new geographic-based souvenir on the site and awarding it retroactively is not as easy as whipping up some digital artwork. (This has been explained on several occasions previously.) Event/date-based souvenirs are easier to implement, which helps explain why these appear fairly regularly. Given limited resources, geographic-based souvenirs have been added at a fairly slow pace (such as the five new ones this year).

 

Interesting, I didn't knew that.

 

asking "why Singapore over Taiwan?" is sort of like asking which of your kids you love the most. There are lots of great geocaching communities out there, for sure.

 

It's not kids. When I asked in the past about the site being oriented more to some parts of the world than others, with the souvenirs in mind, I was explained here it is only based in the last years on pure mathematics - number of caches. But the souvenirs this year are different, so I am asking out of curiosity - why? on what the decision is based on?

 

I still do wish that the site will be less America-Europe oriented and more worldwide. I think we can all benefit from that.

[+The A-Team]

I still do wish that the site will be less America-Europe oriented and more worldwide. I think we can all benefit from that.

Three of the four new souvenirs so far have been Russia, China, and Singapore. I suspect these were specifically chosen in order to expand the number of souvenirs outside of North America and Europe with the quoted goal in mind. I bet the fifth souvenir is for a country in Africa or South America. I'm crossing my fingers for Namibia.

[+ecanderson]

Until then, asking "why Singapore over Taiwan?" is sort of like asking which of your kids you love the most. There are lots of great geocaching communities out there, for sure.

No, it's like asking which of my kids I'll send to college first. Obviously, the one who has already graduated high school will get first consideration, all else being equal. I think folks are asking why all things appear not quite equal in the current gc.com equation.. Edited December 16, 2016 by ecanderson

[+Viajero Perdido]

Until then, asking "why Singapore over Taiwan?" is sort of like asking which of your kids you love the most. There are lots of great geocaching communities out there, for sure.

But a darn good question.

 

I visited Taiwan specifically for caching, and it was great. In fact, I almost went a second time (had tickets), but life got in the way.

 

Singapore was also under consideration, but after careful study of the cache map (and in spite of an innate desire to re-visit Singapore), I said, maybe later.

 

So (IMHO), Taiwan beats Singapore, easily. (But Hong Kong is the King Kong of them all, another whole league.)

Edited December 16, 2016 by Viajero Perdido

[+SwineFlew]

Will be nice to see a hong kong souvenir. I was happy that GS didnt put Hong Kong under China for a souvenir. If they did, its EXTREMELY insulting.

[cezanne]

You're welcome to your opinion, but the process of putting a new geographic-based souvenir on the site and awarding it retroactively is not as easy as whipping up some digital artwork. (This has been explained on several occasions previously.)

 

Actually the post you refer to only explains why the process is complex based on the code pieces that are currently used for that purpose and which are far from ideal for that purpose. An independent implementation would do the job much more effectively. While one can question whether country souvenirs are worth the effort, the very same issue at the heart arises often when it comes to Groundspeak's site.

That may also be one of the reasons why sites like project-gc and many others can easily react to wishes brought along by many users while for Groundspeak often what could be very simple changes in theory would end up in something much more time consuming and ends up as something which is never going to be implemented.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

but the process of putting a new geographic-based souvenir on the site and awarding it retroactively is not as easy as whipping up some digital artwork. (This has been explained on several occasions previously.) Event/date-based souvenirs are easier to implement, which helps explain why these appear fairly regularly. Given limited resources, geographic-based souvenirs have been added at a fairly slow pace (such as the five new ones this year).

 

Interesting, I didn't knew that.

 

asking "why Singapore over Taiwan?" is sort of like asking which of your kids you love the most. There are lots of great geocaching communities out there, for sure.

 

It's not kids. When I asked in the past about the site being oriented more to some parts of the world than others, with the souvenirs in mind, I was explained here it is only based in the last years on pure mathematics - number of caches. But the souvenirs this year are different, so I am asking out of curiosity - why? on what the decision is based on?

 

I don't think that anyone has claimed that it;s *only* based on mathematics and the number of caches in the country. In 2010, before all of the US (which were released in the order in which each state came into the union), Canadian, and German souvenirs were done, an old feedback site was used for nominations/voting. The Czech republic, Portugal, Slovakia, and Poland all got souvenirs before many other bigger countries. In 2014 some of the souvenirs released came out not in mathematical order. Iceland came out in 2013 and there are still several countries with more caches in it that don't have a souvenir. Some amount of subjectivity has been used when choosing countries for a souvenir for quite some time.

When the announcement for the five most recent souvenirs came out, several people here gave their predictions for what countries we'd see and none of them were based simply on math order.

I still do wish that the site will be less America-Europe oriented and more worldwide. I think we can all benefit from that.

 

You've said this before and I agree and made me wonder why you're asking "Why Singapore?"

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I still do wish that the site will be less America-Europe oriented and more worldwide. I think we can all benefit from that.

Three of the four new souvenirs so far have been Russia, China, and Singapore. I suspect these were specifically chosen in order to expand the number of souvenirs outside of North America and Europe with the quoted goal in mind. I bet the fifth souvenir is for a country in Africa or South America. I'm crossing my fingers for Namibia.

 

My prediction is for Argentina. If Africa get's another one, Egypt might be the obvious choice. It has slightly fewer cachers than ZImbabwe and Namibia but I suspect actually gets more visitors. My vote would be for Ethiopia. They've already created artwork for it and it's one of the more accessible countries in Africa (it has a fairly major airline). So, it's only got 39 caches in the entire country but I've found a few of them.

[+Viajero Perdido]

My prediction is for Argentina.

Interesting.

 

I'm sure the situation has improved in the (six already?!?) years since I've been there, but I found the caching to be dismal. All I could find in two weeks of trying was a virtual (it's not going to walk away) and an archived urban nano.

 

Since the criteria for souvenirs seems to be subjective, there you go, another subjective crack.

 

We'll see shortly.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

My prediction is for Argentina.

Interesting.

 

I'm sure the situation has improved in the (six already?!?) years since I've been there, but I found the caching to be dismal. All I could find in two weeks of trying was a virtual (it's not going to walk away) and an archived urban nano.

 

Since the criteria for souvenirs seems to be subjective, there you go, another subjective crack.

 

We'll see shortly.

 

A lot can change in six years. When I went to China in 2010 and 2011 there were only 300 or so cache in the entire country and many of them in Beijing were virtuals. When I went last year it was up to over 1300 and there are several parks (Old and New Summer Palace, Olympic Forest Park) have nice clusters of caches that can make for good day of caching. There's even a small geo-art in Beijing now.

 

My prediction for Argentina was based on the number of caches (just behind China on the list) and that there is only one country in South America that already has a souvenir. Argentina is, of course, much larger than Taiwan, or Hong Kong so while they may have a similar number, the caches are a lot spread out. There are a few cities (Buenos Aires, Cordoba) that seem to have growing geocache communities. The cache (and geocacher) density in Taiwan and Hong Kong is much greater than Argentina.

 

 

[+The A-Team]

The last souvenir of this batch has been released:

Romania

[+cheech gang]

Yipee! Another one for me.

[+Darwould]

I must say that it is nice to get a souvenir from each country.... however there is also a discussion about what constitutes a country. Some more remote islands such as Easter Island are part of Chile, yet should have a souvenir as they are a separate unique place.

 

I would suggest that Geocaching should look closely at the Amateur Radio Hobby as having already sorted this one out, as hams also have "bragging rights" for countries... in their case, talking to another operator in a country. The Amateur Radio Relay League (ARRL) has a "DXCC" award, in which operators talking to a hundred countries or more get progressive certificates.

 

The point here, is they have an approved countries list, which includes many small remote places, that could be used and presently has 339 entities.

The most recent list is posted at http://www.arrl.org/files/file/DXCC/2016%20DXCC%20Current.pdf

 

If this seems too extreme, the UN also defines a countries list with just under 200 countries. Since countries come and go over time if a souvenir is to be developed for each country, then those who want to target more souvenirs need some guidelines as to what countries are "approved".

 

Just a thought... my Geocaching stats say I have found a cache in 37 counties, but no souvenirs yet for some of them .

 

Darwould.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I must say that it is nice to get a souvenir from each country.... however there is also a discussion about what constitutes a country. Some more remote islands such as Easter Island are part of Chile, yet should have a souvenir as they are a separate unique place.

 

The point here, is they have an approved countries list, which includes many small remote places, that could be used and presently has 339 entities.

The most recent list is posted at http://www.arrl.org/...C%20Current.pdf

 

If this seems too extreme, the UN also defines a countries list with just under 200 countries. Since countries come and go over time if a souvenir is to be developed for each country, then those who want to target more souvenirs need some guidelines as to what countries are "approved".

 

Just a thought... my Geocaching stats say I have found a cache in 37 counties, but no souvenirs yet for some of them .

 

Darwould.

 

Your souvenirs tab shows quite a few country based souvenirs, 23 US States, and 10 Canadian provinces. There aren't any souvenirs for Counties. Only a few countries are broken up into their first level administrative regions (U.S., Canada, Germany, Australia, and Ireland).

 

The list of countries that GS uses is based on the UN countries list, with a few modifications. The ARRL may recognize Easter Island as a distinct country but it's not recognized as a country on either the UN countries list of the ISO-3166 list. I actually had some discussions a few weeks ago with the person that currently manages the UN countries about extended it to include first level administrative regions for every country. She thought it was a good idea but neither of us has the time to work it.

 

 

[+hzoi]

(I think that's supposed to be "37 countries")

Edited December 29, 2016 by hzoi

[+NYPaddleCacher]

(I think that's supposed to be "37 countries")

 

I figured that to be the case but thought that a clarification might be helpful for someone else that may wonder if there are any souvenirs for counties.

 

I've got finds in 25 countries and there still isn't a souvenir for 8 of them.