Benchmark toppled, how to report to NGS?

[cesariojpn]

Flagpole topples in high winds: http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/570219/Lahaina-flagpole-has--always-been-there--but-crashes-down.html

 

NGS datasheet: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=TU3104

 

So they intend on replacing it. I'm planning to go there next week to check out the condition of the remaining site. How would I report this to the NGS?

[+Cool Cow Cachers]

If they replace it, as long as it's the same height and location, there's really nothing to report is there?

 

If not, the Mark Recovery page is where you would log it.

[cesariojpn]

If they replace it, as long as it's the same height and location, there's really nothing to report is there?

 

If not, the Mark Recovery page is where you would log it.

 

I mean, if I go to the marker next week, and the thing hasn't been replaced, how do I report it as? Mark Destroyed, Mark Mot Found, Poor?

[+Ernmark]

I mean, if I go to the marker next week, and the thing hasn't been replaced, how do I report it as? Mark Destroyed, Mark Mot Found, Poor?

 

NGS reported to us about 5 years ago that they really weren't interested in recovery reports for intersection stations (spires, poles, etc). If you were to report this one to NGS you would either report a 'not found' in the standard recovery form (with description of what you observed) or take a photo of the area with pole missing & email to Deb Brown @ NGS, where it would be reviewed to change status to 'Destroyed'.

 

Here's the instructions from the acutal Recovery form:

 

1) If you have found the actual marker separated from its setting, you can report the point as destroyed. To do so please send the report on the destroyed mark as an email to Deb Brown (Deb.Brown@noaa.gov). If you send this email, please do not submit the current form, Deb Brown will submit the report for you. In addition, please submit proof of the mark's destruction via actual disk, rubbing, photo, or digital picture (preferred) to Deb Brown:

 

Deb Brown, N/NGS143

National Geodetic Survey, NOAA

1315 East West Highway

Silver Spring, MD 20910

 

2) If you did not find the actual marker, then you should enter notes concerning evidence of its possible destruction as text records and select "Not recovered, not found" as the condition of mark.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Ernmark

[cesariojpn]

NGS reported to us about 5 years ago that they really weren't interested in recovery reports for intersection stations (spires, poles, etc).

 

I have to ask, why?

 

edited to add: Wait, there is a USGS BM at the pole as well according to some reports here on Geocaching: http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=TU3104

Edited March 8, 2013 by cesariojpn

[+LSUFan]

NGS reported to us about 5 years ago that they really weren't interested in recovery reports for intersection stations (spires, poles, etc).

 

I have to ask, why?

 

Here is one of the forums and the following excerpt from it, with the response by Deb why the NGS no longer wanted any reports about Intersection Stations.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=264093

 

In late August we had a discussion (link) about reporting destroyed intersection stations (e.g. water towers, church steeples, etc) to NGS. It has been stated by some here that while NGS (Deb Brown) no longer wishes to receive positive recovery reports on intersection stations, destroyed interesection stations should continue to be reported to NGS so that they can be removed "from the active database to reduce clutter."

 

Shortly after that discussion I emailed Deb Brown the following:

 

Deb:

 

In the past you've indicated that you would rather NOT receive GEOCAC

recovery reports on intersection stations. Does that also apply to destroyed

reports on intersection stations?

 

The reason I ask is that there is currently an assumption among GEOCAC

participants that while you DON'T want recovery reports on intersection

stations, you DO want destroyed reports when there is evidence that the

intersection station has been destroyed.

 

Yesterday I received the following response from Deb:

 

Sorry for the delay in responding.

 

Typically I'd rather not get info of any sort on intersection stations

or landmark stations, however, if I get them I process them. The advent

of GPS has eliminated their use.

 

deb

 

So I would humbly suggest that we respect Deb's wishes and refrain from submitting info of any sort to NGS concerning intersection stations.

 

Tim

Edited March 8, 2013 by LSUFan

[cesariojpn]

Here is one of the forums and the following excerpt from it, with the response by Deb why the NGS no longer wanted any reports about Intersection Stations.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=264093

 

In late August we had a discussion (link) about reporting destroyed intersection stations (e.g. water towers, church steeples, etc) to NGS. It has been stated by some here that while NGS (Deb Brown) no longer wishes to receive positive recovery reports on intersection stations, destroyed interesection stations should continue to be reported to NGS so that they can be removed "from the active database to reduce clutter."

 

Shortly after that discussion I emailed Deb Brown the following:

 

Deb:

 

In the past you've indicated that you would rather NOT receive GEOCAC

recovery reports on intersection stations. Does that also apply to destroyed

reports on intersection stations?

 

The reason I ask is that there is currently an assumption among GEOCAC

participants that while you DON'T want recovery reports on intersection

stations, you DO want destroyed reports when there is evidence that the

intersection station has been destroyed.

 

Yesterday I received the following response from Deb:

 

Sorry for the delay in responding.

 

Typically I'd rather not get info of any sort on intersection stations

or landmark stations, however, if I get them I process them. The advent

of GPS has eliminated their use.

 

deb

 

So I would humbly suggest that we respect Deb's wishes and refrain from submitting info of any sort to NGS concerning intersection stations.

 

Tim

 

So basically, even if they do replace it, the topple incident pretty much is grounds to report it as destroyed once I get photographs of the area and submit them for review?

 

Also, what about the USGS BM disc at the place others have seen? Could that be considered a replacement benchmark for the other BM?

Edited March 9, 2013 by cesariojpn

[kayakbird]

?

copy/paste from just above.

 

'So I would humbly suggest that we respect Deb's wishes and refrain from submitting info of any sort to NGS concerning intersection stations.'

 

I know of several hundred intersections that were dumped on Deb last summer by one logger - time that she could have used to update Data Sheets that will be used. MEL

Edited March 9, 2013 by kayakbird

[southpawaz]

Also, what about the USGS BM disc at the place others have seen? Could that be considered a replacement benchmark for the other BM?

 

The flagpole had a known horizontal postion and unknown vertical postition (elevation), while the USGS disk most likely had a known elevation and unknown horizontal position, so they would not easily substitute for one another.