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Spiteful Geocachers


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Only a very small minority is getting offended by it, and I know this is a small sample, but I am sure the trend of people having no issues with my profile and logs will continue.

Now to say that I wouldn't change based on the outcome of this thread is speculation on your part. Believe me when I say that if there was a overwhelming response against me, I would most definitely change my ways.

I refuse to be bullied by a small minority in the geocaching community.

 

Just out of curiosity, I went back through the thread. 6 people, including myself, think that your logs are a bit boastful and you might tone them down a bit, and 4 people think that your logs are absolutely fine. So that's actually 6 to 4 against your view. That said, log however you want. All I wanted to do was point out how some folks might read them. I wasn't trying to bully you--I'm sorry that you felt bullied. I only wanted to show you that others might take a different point of view. Make of it what you will. But 6 to 4 is hardly "a very small minority".

 

In my count I disregarded views of the profile and counted views of the logs only.

 

If you want to get into the numbers, I was also including the people have personally reached out to me who have not posted in this forum.

 

I am not going to go through every post here, but why wouldn't you count profile and log views as one?

 

Because they are not. Your profile is about you. Your cache logs are about your experience with each individual cache. Don't know how many times I can write it, but your cache logs are not supposed to be about other cachers. Stop editorializing about other cachers in your logs and your problem will probably disappear. Is that not your goal?

 

At any rate, I'm done. You can run around with your fingers in your ears humming Naaaaaa all you want.

 

My logs are a reflection of my profile they are one and the same. There is no editorializing. As I said in my last post, this is another example of how people selectively choose information to fit their views.

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Only a very small minority is getting offended by it, and I know this is a small sample, but I am sure the trend of people having no issues with my profile and logs will continue.

Now to say that I wouldn't change based on the outcome of this thread is speculation on your part. Believe me when I say that if there was a overwhelming response against me, I would most definitely change my ways.

I refuse to be bullied by a small minority in the geocaching community.

 

Just out of curiosity, I went back through the thread. 6 people, including myself, think that your logs are a bit boastful and you might tone them down a bit, and 4 people think that your logs are absolutely fine. So that's actually 6 to 4 against your view. That said, log however you want. All I wanted to do was point out how some folks might read them. I wasn't trying to bully you--I'm sorry that you felt bullied. I only wanted to show you that others might take a different point of view. Make of it what you will. But 6 to 4 is hardly "a very small minority".

 

In my count I disregarded views of the profile and counted views of the logs only.

 

If you want to get into the numbers, I was also including the people have personally reached out to me who have not posted in this forum.

 

I am not going to go through every post here, but why wouldn't you count profile and log views as one?

 

Because they are not. Your profile is about you. Your cache logs are about your experience with each individual cache. Don't know how many times I can write it, but your cache logs are not supposed to be about other cachers. Stop editorializing about other cachers in your logs and your problem will probably disappear. Is that not your goal?

 

At any rate, I'm done. You can run around with your fingers in your ears humming Naaaaaa all you want.

 

My logs are a reflection of my profile they are one and the same. There is no editorializing. As I said in my last post, this is another example of how people selectively choose information to fit their views.

 

I selectively choose to no longer attempt to decipher the logic of this thinking. Thanks for the entertainment though.

Edited by cheech gang
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Only a very small minority is getting offended by it, and I know this is a small sample, but I am sure the trend of people having no issues with my profile and logs will continue.

Now to say that I wouldn't change based on the outcome of this thread is speculation on your part. Believe me when I say that if there was a overwhelming response against me, I would most definitely change my ways.

I refuse to be bullied by a small minority in the geocaching community.

 

Just out of curiosity, I went back through the thread. 6 people, including myself, think that your logs are a bit boastful and you might tone them down a bit, and 4 people think that your logs are absolutely fine. So that's actually 6 to 4 against your view. That said, log however you want. All I wanted to do was point out how some folks might read them. I wasn't trying to bully you--I'm sorry that you felt bullied. I only wanted to show you that others might take a different point of view. Make of it what you will. But 6 to 4 is hardly "a very small minority".

 

In my count I disregarded views of the profile and counted views of the logs only.

 

If you want to get into the numbers, I was also including the people have personally reached out to me who have not posted in this forum.

 

I am not going to go through every post here, but why wouldn't you count profile and log views as one?

 

Because they are not. Your profile is about you. Your cache logs are about your experience with each individual cache. Don't know how many times I can write it, but your cache logs are not supposed to be about other cachers. Stop editorializing about other cachers in your logs and your problem will probably disappear. Is that not your goal?

 

At any rate, I'm done. You can run around with your fingers in your ears humming Naaaaaa all you want.

 

My logs are a reflection of my profile they are one and the same. There is no editorializing. As I said in my last post, this is another example of how people selectively choose information to fit their views.

 

What's really ironic is the fact that I happen to agree with your views on the so called FTF hounds. I placed a cache in an area where the average FTF log is posted five minutes after the Publish notification. My cache was a ten minute walk up a flat, oak canopied trail. It took six days for the FTF. I though that it was ridiculous and it really had me questioning the other cacher's priorities. The thing is, I would never go find a cache in that area and then use my found it log to question and criticize those other cachers. It's simply the wrong platform to do so. I also don't believe that it's fair to the cache owner to use their cache page to advance your agenda.

 

You believe that this is all about your profile. Has it occurred to you that most people probably wouldn't even look at your profile if not for your cache logs?

Edited by Don_J
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Only a very small minority is getting offended by it, and I know this is a small sample, but I am sure the trend of people having no issues with my profile and logs will continue.

Now to say that I wouldn't change based on the outcome of this thread is speculation on your part. Believe me when I say that if there was a overwhelming response against me, I would most definitely change my ways.

I refuse to be bullied by a small minority in the geocaching community.

 

Just out of curiosity, I went back through the thread. 6 people, including myself, think that your logs are a bit boastful and you might tone them down a bit, and 4 people think that your logs are absolutely fine. So that's actually 6 to 4 against your view. That said, log however you want. All I wanted to do was point out how some folks might read them. I wasn't trying to bully you--I'm sorry that you felt bullied. I only wanted to show you that others might take a different point of view. Make of it what you will. But 6 to 4 is hardly "a very small minority".

 

In my count I disregarded views of the profile and counted views of the logs only.

 

If you want to get into the numbers, I was also including the people have personally reached out to me who have not posted in this forum.

 

I am not going to go through every post here, but why wouldn't you count profile and log views as one?

 

Because they are not. Your profile is about you. Your cache logs are about your experience with each individual cache. Don't know how many times I can write it, but your cache logs are not supposed to be about other cachers. Stop editorializing about other cachers in your logs and your problem will probably disappear. Is that not your goal?

 

At any rate, I'm done. You can run around with your fingers in your ears humming Naaaaaa all you want.

 

My logs are a reflection of my profile they are one and the same. There is no editorializing. As I said in my last post, this is another example of how people selectively choose information to fit their views.

 

What's really ironic is the fact that I happen to agree with your views on the so called FTF hounds. I placed a cache in an area where the average FTF log is posted five minutes after the Publish notification. My cache was a ten minute walk up a flat, oak canopied trail. It took six days for the FTF. I though that it was ridiculous and it really had me questioning the other cacher's priorities. The thing is, I would never go find a cache in that area and then use my found it log to question and criticize those other cachers. It's simply the wrong platform to do so. I also don't believe that it's fair to the cache owner to use their cache page to advance your agenda.

 

You believe that this is all about your profile. Has it occurred to you that most people probably wouldn't even look at your profile if not for your cache logs?

 

People can say what they wish, but as I said before I am not pushing any sort of agenda. Again, if you look in my profile I do say that people should cache the way that makes them happy and to each their own.

 

As far as the logs and profile thing is concerned that is in reference to this tread. Originally I had asked that people give me their opinions on my profile, but then it evolved into people giving their opinions on my logs as well.

Further, someone had posted that more people were against my views in this tread, but they only took into consideration what people thought of my logs. Which for the purposes of this tread is an unfair count.

 

Also as far as people not finding easy caches that happens, but that is a rarity.

I don't know about your area, but in my area 99.99% of the time all caches are found well within an hour of them being published.

Edited by vicekitty
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Only a very small minority is getting offended by it, and I know this is a small sample, but I am sure the trend of people having no issues with my profile and logs will continue.

Now to say that I wouldn't change based on the outcome of this thread is speculation on your part. Believe me when I say that if there was a overwhelming response against me, I would most definitely change my ways.

I refuse to be bullied by a small minority in the geocaching community.

 

Just out of curiosity, I went back through the thread. 6 people, including myself, think that your logs are a bit boastful and you might tone them down a bit, and 4 people think that your logs are absolutely fine. So that's actually 6 to 4 against your view. That said, log however you want. All I wanted to do was point out how some folks might read them. I wasn't trying to bully you--I'm sorry that you felt bullied. I only wanted to show you that others might take a different point of view. Make of it what you will. But 6 to 4 is hardly "a very small minority".

 

In my count I disregarded views of the profile and counted views of the logs only.

 

If you want to get into the numbers, I was also including the people have personally reached out to me who have not posted in this forum.

 

I am not going to go through every post here, but why wouldn't you count profile and log views as one?

 

Because they are not. Your profile is about you. Your cache logs are about your experience with each individual cache. Don't know how many times I can write it, but your cache logs are not supposed to be about other cachers. Stop editorializing about other cachers in your logs and your problem will probably disappear. Is that not your goal?

 

At any rate, I'm done. You can run around with your fingers in your ears humming Naaaaaa all you want.

 

My logs are a reflection of my profile they are one and the same. There is no editorializing. As I said in my last post, this is another example of how people selectively choose information to fit their views.

 

What's really ironic is the fact that I happen to agree with your views on the so called FTF hounds. I placed a cache in an area where the average FTF log is posted five minutes after the Publish notification. My cache was a ten minute walk up a flat, oak canopied trail. It took six days for the FTF. I though that it was ridiculous and it really had me questioning the other cacher's priorities. The thing is, I would never go find a cache in that area and then use my found it log to question and criticize those other cachers. It's simply the wrong platform to do so. I also don't believe that it's fair to the cache owner to use their cache page to advance your agenda.

 

You believe that this is all about your profile. Has it occurred to you that most people probably wouldn't even look at your profile if not for your cache logs?

 

People can say what they wish, but as I said before I am not pushing any sort of agenda. Again, if you look in my profile I do say that people should cache the way that makes them happy and to each their own.

 

As far as the logs and profile thing is concerned that is in reference to this tread. Originally I had asked that people give me their opinions on my profile, but then it evolved into people giving their opinions on my logs as well.

Further, someone had posted that more people were against my views in this tread, but they only took into consideration what people thought of my logs. Which for the purposes of this tread is an unfair count.

 

Also as far as people not finding easy caches that happens, but that is a rarity.

I don't know about your area, but in my area 99.99% of the time all caches are found well within an hour of them being published.

 

If you had simply said, 'Look at my profile and tell me what you think", you probably would have had almost unanimous support. What you did say is that someone was threatening you because of it. I think you understand now that it is simply the nature of this forum to dig deeper. That has been the nature of the forum probably going back way before I became active in it around 2008-09.

 

I honestly think that your issue has more to do with your logs than with your profile. I've offered my commentary in the hopes that you may be able to look at them from the perspective of the other area cachers that are reading them. I hope that I have not come across as argumentative because that really isn't my intention.

 

As far as logs, I just think of them as described in the basic three rules of Geocaching. "3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.". I think that if you were to concentrate on that and forget about your profile, you will find that your problem will go away.

 

At any rate, it doesn't seem that your mind is going to change and I'm certain that mine isn't, so I'll just give it a rest. Have fun. Hope you get it worked out.

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Only a very small minority is getting offended by it, and I know this is a small sample, but I am sure the trend of people having no issues with my profile and logs will continue.

Now to say that I wouldn't change based on the outcome of this thread is speculation on your part. Believe me when I say that if there was a overwhelming response against me, I would most definitely change my ways.

I refuse to be bullied by a small minority in the geocaching community.

 

Just out of curiosity, I went back through the thread. 6 people, including myself, think that your logs are a bit boastful and you might tone them down a bit, and 4 people think that your logs are absolutely fine. So that's actually 6 to 4 against your view. That said, log however you want. All I wanted to do was point out how some folks might read them. I wasn't trying to bully you--I'm sorry that you felt bullied. I only wanted to show you that others might take a different point of view. Make of it what you will. But 6 to 4 is hardly "a very small minority".

 

In my count I disregarded views of the profile and counted views of the logs only.

 

If you want to get into the numbers, I was also including the people have personally reached out to me who have not posted in this forum.

 

I am not going to go through every post here, but why wouldn't you count profile and log views as one?

 

Because they are not. Your profile is about you. Your cache logs are about your experience with each individual cache. Don't know how many times I can write it, but your cache logs are not supposed to be about other cachers. Stop editorializing about other cachers in your logs and your problem will probably disappear. Is that not your goal?

 

At any rate, I'm done. You can run around with your fingers in your ears humming Naaaaaa all you want.

 

My logs are a reflection of my profile they are one and the same. There is no editorializing. As I said in my last post, this is another example of how people selectively choose information to fit their views.

 

What's really ironic is the fact that I happen to agree with your views on the so called FTF hounds. I placed a cache in an area where the average FTF log is posted five minutes after the Publish notification. My cache was a ten minute walk up a flat, oak canopied trail. It took six days for the FTF. I though that it was ridiculous and it really had me questioning the other cacher's priorities. The thing is, I would never go find a cache in that area and then use my found it log to question and criticize those other cachers. It's simply the wrong platform to do so. I also don't believe that it's fair to the cache owner to use their cache page to advance your agenda.

 

You believe that this is all about your profile. Has it occurred to you that most people probably wouldn't even look at your profile if not for your cache logs?

 

People can say what they wish, but as I said before I am not pushing any sort of agenda. Again, if you look in my profile I do say that people should cache the way that makes them happy and to each their own.

 

As far as the logs and profile thing is concerned that is in reference to this tread. Originally I had asked that people give me their opinions on my profile, but then it evolved into people giving their opinions on my logs as well.

Further, someone had posted that more people were against my views in this tread, but they only took into consideration what people thought of my logs. Which for the purposes of this tread is an unfair count.

 

Also as far as people not finding easy caches that happens, but that is a rarity.

I don't know about your area, but in my area 99.99% of the time all caches are found well within an hour of them being published.

 

If you had simply said, 'Look at my profile and tell me what you think", you probably would have had almost unanimous support. What you did say is that someone was threatening you because of it. I think you understand now that it is simply the nature of this forum to dig deeper. That has been the nature of the forum probably going back way before I became active in it around 2008-09.

 

I honestly think that your issue has more to do with your logs than with your profile. I've offered my commentary in the hopes that you may be able to look at them from the perspective of the other area cachers that are reading them. I hope that I have not come across as argumentative because that really isn't my intention.

 

As far as logs, I just think of them as described in the basic three rules of Geocaching. "3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.". I think that if you were to concentrate on that and forget about your profile, you will find that your problem will go away.

 

At any rate, it doesn't seem that your mind is going to change and I'm certain that mine isn't, so I'll just give it a rest. Have fun. Hope you get it worked out.

. Most geocachers can't just log there geoccaches and go away its about stats remember so they have to creep your comments and profile so the can judge you before even knowing you awesomee
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I find that the context found in items of record are quite helpful with creating opinions and making accurate judgements. Some might call that context "evidence", and can generally provide a better understanding of a situation.

 

In this case, I find that the some of the logs noted here provide excellent context to the situation. Add in the profile statements, and the active behavior found here in this thread, and this context all adds up to enough for a judgement call as to what the problem might be. And that, in my opinion, is that the cache logs are a likely cause of the issue stated in the original post.

 

From there, calling cachers "spiteful" is a case of what I like to call "the pot calling the kettle black".

 

Now, this harsh reality that a cacher's behavior in their logs (or on the forums) is leading others to pass judgement that someone is being irrational or is trolling the forums can be difficult to hear. Once that opinion is shared with the person--in some clear cases lately--the response by that person is usually denial, defensiveness, and, in some cases, increased trolling behavior.

 

That, to me, is a "spiteful" cacher.

Edited by NeverSummer
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Those logs are mild.

:o :o :o I just read a crazy one on GC47CY2 though. :ph34r::ph34r: :ph34r:

 

As soon as the notification hit, we bolted to the car and did a smoky burn out while leaving. Hit route 130 and there was a lot of traffic, but Laura held the horn down and we drove on the shoulder for a bit. I think we were doing about 80 when we accidentally clipped the side view mirror off of a Lexus with a lady in curlers who popped us the bird. The traffic light was way too long at the jug handle, we were really anxious to get FTF, so Laura tried to jump a curb but we got stuck in a small juniper bush, and I had to get out and push. I found an ammo box in the trunk that we used for traction and we were on our way! Our pulses were throbbing as I lifted the cammo. With a loud screech it soon revealed itself and we screamed First to Find, WOO HOO everyone else is loosers!!!! We popped open a six pack of Dos Equis in the car and smashed them in the parking lot to celebrate. What an awesome experience that I can now relate to my grandchildren who are in there mid 30s. Thanks!!!!!!!!

 

Best FTF log ever!

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Only a very small minority is getting offended by it, and I know this is a small sample, but I am sure the trend of people having no issues with my profile and logs will continue.

Now to say that I wouldn't change based on the outcome of this thread is speculation on your part. Believe me when I say that if there was a overwhelming response against me, I would most definitely change my ways.

I refuse to be bullied by a small minority in the geocaching community.

 

Just out of curiosity, I went back through the thread. 6 people, including myself, think that your logs are a bit boastful and you might tone them down a bit, and 4 people think that your logs are absolutely fine. So that's actually 6 to 4 against your view. That said, log however you want. All I wanted to do was point out how some folks might read them. I wasn't trying to bully you--I'm sorry that you felt bullied. I only wanted to show you that others might take a different point of view. Make of it what you will. But 6 to 4 is hardly "a very small minority".

 

In my count I disregarded views of the profile and counted views of the logs only.

 

If you want to get into the numbers, I was also including the people have personally reached out to me who have not posted in this forum.

 

I am not going to go through every post here, but why wouldn't you count profile and log views as one?

 

Because they are not. Your profile is about you. Your cache logs are about your experience with each individual cache. Don't know how many times I can write it, but your cache logs are not supposed to be about other cachers. Stop editorializing about other cachers in your logs and your problem will probably disappear. Is that not your goal?

 

At any rate, I'm done. You can run around with your fingers in your ears humming Naaaaaa all you want.

 

My logs are a reflection of my profile they are one and the same. There is no editorializing. As I said in my last post, this is another example of how people selectively choose information to fit their views.

 

What's really ironic is the fact that I happen to agree with your views on the so called FTF hounds. I placed a cache in an area where the average FTF log is posted five minutes after the Publish notification. My cache was a ten minute walk up a flat, oak canopied trail. It took six days for the FTF. I though that it was ridiculous and it really had me questioning the other cacher's priorities. The thing is, I would never go find a cache in that area and then use my found it log to question and criticize those other cachers. It's simply the wrong platform to do so. I also don't believe that it's fair to the cache owner to use their cache page to advance your agenda.

 

You believe that this is all about your profile. Has it occurred to you that most people probably wouldn't even look at your profile if not for your cache logs?

 

People can say what they wish, but as I said before I am not pushing any sort of agenda. Again, if you look in my profile I do say that people should cache the way that makes them happy and to each their own.

 

As far as the logs and profile thing is concerned that is in reference to this tread. Originally I had asked that people give me their opinions on my profile, but then it evolved into people giving their opinions on my logs as well.

Further, someone had posted that more people were against my views in this tread, but they only took into consideration what people thought of my logs. Which for the purposes of this tread is an unfair count.

 

Also as far as people not finding easy caches that happens, but that is a rarity.

I don't know about your area, but in my area 99.99% of the time all caches are found well within an hour of them being published.

 

I am still waiting on the cookies for ftfs that i have had. My care-o-meter for ftf's and ftf hounds is buried on zero. ;)

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As soon as the notification hit, we bolted to the car and did a smoky burn out while leaving. Hit route 130 and there was a lot of traffic, but Laura held the horn down and we drove on the shoulder for a bit. I think we were doing about 80 when we accidentally clipped the side view mirror off of a Lexus with a lady in curlers who popped us the bird. The traffic light was way too long at the jug handle, we were really anxious to get FTF, so Laura tried to jump a curb but we got stuck in a small juniper bush, and I had to get out and push. I found an ammo box in the trunk that we used for traction and we were on our way! Our pulses were throbbing as I lifted the cammo. With a loud screech it soon revealed itself and we screamed First to Find, WOO HOO everyone else is loosers!!!! We popped open a six pack of Dos Equis in the car and smashed them in the parking lot to celebrate. What an awesome experience that I can now relate to my grandchildren who are in there mid 30s. Thanks!!!!!!!!

 

Best FTF log ever!

 

Maybe not 'the best ever', but really creative and certainly worthy of a high five. :grin:

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Those logs are mild.

:o :o :o I just read a crazy one on GC47CY2 though. :ph34r::ph34r: :ph34r:

 

As soon as the notification hit, we bolted to the car and did a smoky burn out while leaving. Hit route 130 and there was a lot of traffic, but Laura held the horn down and we drove on the shoulder for a bit. I think we were doing about 80 when we accidentally clipped the side view mirror off of a Lexus with a lady in curlers who popped us the bird. The traffic light was way too long at the jug handle, we were really anxious to get FTF, so Laura tried to jump a curb but we got stuck in a small juniper bush, and I had to get out and push. I found an ammo box in the trunk that we used for traction and we were on our way! Our pulses were throbbing as I lifted the cammo. With a loud screech it soon revealed itself and we screamed First to Find, WOO HOO everyone else is loosers!!!! We popped open a six pack of Dos Equis in the car and smashed them in the parking lot to celebrate. What an awesome experience that I can now relate to my grandchildren who are in there mid 30s. Thanks!!!!!!!!

 

Best FTF log ever!

ROFL!

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Those logs are mild. :o :o :o I just read a crazy one on GC47CY2 though. :ph34r::ph34r: :ph34r:
As soon as the notification hit, we bolted to the car and did a smoky burn out while leaving. Hit route 130 and there was a lot of traffic, but Laura held the horn down and we drove on the shoulder for a bit. I think we were doing about 80 when we accidentally clipped the side view mirror off of a Lexus with a lady in curlers who popped us the bird. The traffic light was way too long at the jug handle, we were really anxious to get FTF, so Laura tried to jump a curb but we got stuck in a small juniper bush, and I had to get out and push. I found an ammo box in the trunk that we used for traction and we were on our way! Our pulses were throbbing as I lifted the cammo. With a loud screech it soon revealed itself and we screamed First to Find, WOO HOO everyone else is loosers!!!! We popped open a six pack of Dos Equis in the car and smashed them in the parking lot to celebrate. What an awesome experience that I can now relate to my grandchildren who are in there mid 30s. Thanks!!!!!!!!
Best FTF log ever!

The STF log was pretty good, too.

 

This is getting off topic, though.

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As soon as the notification hit, we bolted to the car and did a smoky burn out while leaving. Hit route 130 and there was a lot of traffic, but Laura held the horn down and we drove on the shoulder for a bit. I think we were doing about 80 when we accidentally clipped the side view mirror off of a Lexus with a lady in curlers who popped us the bird. The traffic light was way too long at the jug handle, we were really anxious to get FTF, so Laura tried to jump a curb but we got stuck in a small juniper bush, and I had to get out and push. I found an ammo box in the trunk that we used for traction and we were on our way! Our pulses were throbbing as I lifted the cammo. With a loud screech it soon revealed itself and we screamed First to Find, WOO HOO everyone else is loosers!!!! We popped open a six pack of Dos Equis in the car and smashed them in the parking lot to celebrate. What an awesome experience that I can now relate to my grandchildren who are in there mid 30s. Thanks!!!!!!!!

 

Best FTF log ever!

 

Maybe not 'the best ever', but really creative and certainly worthy of a high five. :grin:

 

Creative? Nah, that cacher just stated the facts as they happened.. :lol:

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OP, what did you do? Fess up. There's got to be more to the story than just what's on your profile.

 

As per your profile, I can't say I'm offended by it, but rather, perplexed. Why put negativity like that on your profile? I can't see the benefit.

 

I tell you there is no more story to it, I never had any issues with any geocacher.

 

But the motivation behind my profile was that I always see other people making FTF's and boastfully proclaiming in their logs that they "signed the fresh/blank log" or "found at 6:00am". And IMO saying such things is way worst than what I said in my profile because geocaching isn't about making FTF's.

 

To some people geocahing IS about the FTF. So what?

 

I have gone for FTF for the experience but I am over that.

 

However, I have an awesome cache in a state park that I left two $25 Chili gift cards in (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=85cc48a7-fdb6-4c43-8b07-cf4bcff837a9) Now tell me that isn't a worth FTF? You know you'd be beating down the bushes for that one hotshot! lol

Edited by SeekerOfTheWay
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