When the co-ords are off...

[+Oxford Stone]

Apologies if this has been covered before - couldn't find it in a quick search though:

 

A pet hate in a log entry is "the co-ords were miles off".

 

If you find yourself thinking that, with a cache in your hand, look at your GPS and add the correct co-ords to the log! Not difficult, surely - and a common courtesy in a community game like this?

 

I've done it twice this week - message of thanks from one CO who's put in my co-ords and saved people needleesly crossing a busy road. The other was in a concrete canyon where the GPS just goes bananas but I used google maps to suggest a better reading after a string of "coords 30m out!!!" comments. One of the caches I want to do this lunchtime, same thing, half a dozen pepole moaning, no-one helping.

 

[+Lieblweb]

Depends on how far off they are....

 

We are all well aware (most of us anyway) - there are various conditions/situations that will cause a GPS to be OFF. To be 'respectful' of the CO and his/her efforts, I will simply say "Coords were off for us today" "GPS was bouncy". In some situations, I will specifically mention how many feet my GPS was off by..... and this will give other finders a clue as to how far out to expand their searching (depending on their own GPS's at the time). I don't blame the CO ...because the fault could be on either end.

 

There was only one situation where the cache was off by 50+ feet (they used a cell phone to hide the cache). I submitted my own coordinates in my log. I don't know if the CO changed the coords or not.

 

I tend to err on my own side of things and keep the game respectful.

[+Off Grid]

Apologies if this has been covered before - couldn't find it in a quick search though:

 

A pet hate in a log entry is "the co-ords were miles off".

 

If you find yourself thinking that, with a cache in your hand, look at your GPS and add the correct co-ords to the log! Not difficult, surely - and a common courtesy in a community game like this?

 

I've done it twice this week - message of thanks from one CO who's put in my co-ords and saved people needleesly crossing a busy road. The other was in a concrete canyon where the GPS just goes bananas but I used google maps to suggest a better reading after a string of "coords 30m out!!!" comments. One of the caches I want to do this lunchtime, same thing, half a dozen pepole moaning, no-one helping.

 

 

I agree and most people do not understand or realize the limitations of Civilian GPSr that even the best receivers will only give an accuracy of 6 meters (IE take a string and cut it six meters long stake one end in the ground and walk in a circle, that will give you some idea of the search area in excellent conditions. How many birds your GPSr can "See" will effect accuracy also rain forest canopy etc.

 

Many people think you should just be able to "walk right up to the cache" not so.

 

A basic info page http://airandspace.si.edu/gps/work.html

[+murrayegger]

If I am out and the weather is bad, I might make a note of it but not get co-ords because I know I can't trust my GPSr. On occasion I will submit better coords. I have had someone do the same for me (Cell phone hide) and I greatly appreciated it.

[+StarBrand]

If I am out and the weather is bad, I might make a note of it but not get co-ords because I know I can't trust my GPSr. On occasion I will submit better coords. I have had someone do the same for me (Cell phone hide) and I greatly appreciated it.

Unless your GPSr is getting very wet at the time, clouds and weather should not affect the readings - the frequencies were specifically chosen to not be affected by clouds.

[+cerberus1]

If the coordinates are off, we'll usually say something like, " the GPS has us off a bit today" or, "bounce in the area gave us a tough time", but that's about it.

We no longer post coordinates. Heck, it could have been us.

 

One hide we have in a ravine is notorious for bounce with the rocks, but everyone seems to find it.

Usually it's a new person, weeks into the hobby, who'll post coords saying they were way off, as if his GPSr/phone can't be wrong.

We just roll our eyes and figure he'll learn, in time...

[+Ike 13]

If it's more than 50 I usually add in coordinates. If it's not I just mention that my GPS said I was 30 feet away.

[+L0ne.R]

If it's more than 50 I usually add in coordinates. If it's not I just mention that my GPS said I was 30 feet away.

 

Same here. I appreciate knowing if it's somewhat off for some finders, that way when I get to ground zero I'll read the hint and search a wider circle.

[+worstcaster]

If you think they are truly off then a polite posting is appreciated. I have one cache were the coordinates for the cache were good but I made a typo putting in the parking coordinates. They were 2 counties north of were they should have been! I really appreciated the information.

[+Lil Devil]

Any more than about 20 feet off and I'll post new coords.

[+Oxford Stone]

Thanks, interesting feedback. I'm pernickety and helpful, and glad to tidy things up.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

One hide we have in a ravine is notorious for bounce with the rocks, but everyone seems to find it.

Usually it's a new person, weeks into the hobby, who'll post coords saying they were way off, as if his GPSr/phone can't be wrong.

We just roll our eyes and figure he'll learn, in time...".

 

 

A few years ago I found a cache in a local gorge as my GPS was telling me that it's accuracy was at 90 feet. it would have been absurd to post updated coordinate when even the GPS is telling you they're unlikely to be accurate.

 

A local cacher, with one of the highest find counts in the state, used to frequently post the coordinates he had when he found the cache. I found quite a few of the same caches that he found that had logs which read, "used TFs coordinates and was able to find it."

[+NYPaddleCacher]

oops....I wish we had the ability to delete our own posts...

Edited March 1, 2013 by NYPaddleCacher

[+hzoi]

If it's more than 50 I usually add in coordinates. If it's not I just mention that my GPS said I was 30 feet away.

 

Our approach as well. When I got started, I heard or read somewhere that the standard "gimme" for coordinates was about 42 feet or 13 meters. I don't know if that is still true, I don't even know if it was accurate when I firsat read it. But I'll blame the GPSr in the online log for up to 40 feet. Any more than that, and I let the GPSr start averaging corodinates while we log the cache, then post what I get in the online log.

[+CanadianRockies]

When I got started, I heard or read somewhere that the standard "gimme" for coordinates was about 42 feet or 13 meters. I don't know if that is still true, I don't even know if it was accurate when I firsat read it. But I'll blame the GPSr in the online log for up to 40 feet. Any more than that, and I let the GPSr start averaging corodinates while we log the cache, then post what I get in the online log.

My rule of thumb is about 10 metres, but it varies. If the area is environmentally sensitive and has lots of potential hiding spots, then I might be quicker to provide alternative coordinates. If there aren't many hiding spots or my GPSr's accuracy isn't good, then I might let a bigger inaccuracy slide.

[+Ranger Roo]

Usually, when it happens to me, I am so frustrated at having looked in completely the wrong place for so long, I forget to note the coords!

Edited March 1, 2013 by Ranger Roo

[+The A-Team]

A local cacher, with one of the highest find counts in the state, used to frequently post the coordinates he had when he found the cache. I found quite a few of the same caches that he found that had logs which read, "used TFs coordinates and was able to find it."

Not a high-find-count cacher, but a local who recently moved away used to do the same. If the coordinates seemed to be off at all, he'd post his own coordinates, which were almost always excellent. There have been many caches that I was only able to find because I used his coordinates.

 

As for myself, I'll usually post my own coordinates if others before me have also mentioned that the coordinates seemed to be off, or if they're just really off. I always find it odd that so many people will all log that they found a cache far from the coordinates, but never post the coordinates of where they did find it.

[+Bear and Ragged]

"Off" but within reason, just say "off"

 

"Off" and obviously off, say how far AND which direction.

Fifty feet 'off' means it's a 100+ feet possible search area...

 

I'm happy to post the co-ords I get after I've managed to find the cache.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

Everytime I meet a cacher in Iowa and a certain cacher's hides are nearby the topic of how poor his coordinates are comes up. Some are in the range of 60-80ft off from the posted coordinates. My understanding is the "NVG" part of his name is "not very good" in reference to his coordinates.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

I'm happy to post the co-ords I get after I've managed to find the cache.

 

I've got both a Garmin GPSmaps 60CSx and a DeLorme Earthmate PN-60w. If both show a sizeable distance from GZ, I'll take a set of coords to post after I make the find.

[+fizzymagic]

I agree and most people do not understand or realize the limitations of Civilian GPSr that even the best receivers will only give an accuracy of 6 meters (IE take a string and cut it six meters long stake one end in the ground and walk in a circle, that will give you some idea of the search area in excellent conditions.

 

The above indicates that you are one of the "most people" who do not understand how GPS uncertainties work.

 

My advice: unless you actually know what you are talking about, don't spout off on technical things like this in this forum, as there are people on it who do know what they are talking about.

 

Whether I choose to add better coords to a cache log depends on a lot of factors, but in excellent conditions 6 meters is pretty far off.

[+The A-Team]

I agree and most people do not understand or realize the limitations of Civilian GPSr that even the best receivers will only give an accuracy of 6 meters (IE take a string and cut it six meters long stake one end in the ground and walk in a circle, that will give you some idea of the search area in excellent conditions.

The above indicates that you are one of the "most people" who do not understand how GPS uncertainties work.

 

My advice: unless you actually know what you are talking about, don't spout off on technical things like this in this forum, as there are people on it who do know what they are talking about.

Just for everyone's interest, I found this article that does a good job of explaining what that number on your GPSr actually means. They also showed that a pretty high percentage of GPS users don't know what that number is telling them.

 

In a nutshell, all that number means is that 50% of measurements over a period of time will be within that distance of the actual spot, called the Circular Error Probable, or CEP. The lower the number, the more confidence you can have in the displayed position. If you actually double what the GPSr is stating as the accuracy, you can be nearly 100% confident that the actual position is within that radius of your current position. By using just the displayed accuracy, though, you can only be 50% confident.

 

FWIW, in open spaces around here and with a WAAS satellite locked, I can get down to 2m CEP on my Oregon 450. Usually, though, I'm not in open spaces, and my CEP tends to be more in the 5-8m range.

[+Off Grid]

I agree and most people do not understand or realize the limitations of Civilian GPSr that even the best receivers will only give an accuracy of 6 meters (IE take a string and cut it six meters long stake one end in the ground and walk in a circle, that will give you some idea of the search area in excellent conditions.

 

The above indicates that you are one of the "most people" who do not understand how GPS uncertainties work.

 

My advice: unless you actually know what you are talking about, don't spout off on technical things like this in this forum, as there are people on it who do know what they are talking about.

 

Whether I choose to add better coords to a cache log depends on a lot of factors, but in excellent conditions 6 meters is pretty far off.

 

I wish "Most People" did and were trained by the people that made the GPS, I do know what I am talking about do you?? No it seems not. You might not spout off when you have no clue of my experience.

[+The_Incredibles_]

If it seems appropriate, I will post new coords.

 

For instance, in a FTF situation, generally, if I find the cache more than 10 meters from the posted coordinates, I will take new coords.

 

In other situations where many people have reported the coords being off, I will post mine.

[+briansnat]

It depends on the definition of off. I've had finders complain about coords that were 10 feet "off" and post "better" ones. When I'm searching I won't even mention an issue with the coords if its it's under 30-40 feet. Over 40-50 feet I'll make mention of it in my log and over 60 I'll post my coords. Of course there is no guarantee mine will be any better.

 

I have a cache in a ravine that gets major signal bounce. When I placed it I used two different brand units and averaged with both and results were close so I split the difference and used those. I made my clue a dead giveaway because I felt the coords would still be troublesome. Sure enough the the logs started rolling in mentioning that the coords were way off with many finders posting "correct" ones. It didn't concern me much because people were still finding the cache thanks to the clue, but I eventually got sick of the bad coords logs. So I took all of the posted corrected coordinates and plotted them on a map. For the most part they were all over the place, but there seemed to be cluster where about 1/3 of them settled. I took those and average them and posted the result as updated coords. The complaints were reduced substantially, but I still get one now and then.

Edited March 2, 2013 by briansnat

[Suscrofa]

Some would even start a war for this

 

Google maps off

[Suscrofa]

I agree and most people do not understand or realize the limitations of Civilian GPSr that even the best receivers will only give an accuracy of 6 meters (IE take a string and cut it six meters long stake one end in the ground and walk in a circle, that will give you some idea of the search area in excellent conditions.

 

The above indicates that you are one of the "most people" who do not understand how GPS uncertainties work.

 

My advice: unless you actually know what you are talking about, don't spout off on technical things like this in this forum, as there are people on it who do know what they are talking about.

 

Whether I choose to add better coords to a cache log depends on a lot of factors, but in excellent conditions 6 meters is pretty far off.

 

Are you kidding ? Besides, errors induced by the GPS of the cacher adds to the one of the finder !

Oh, by the way, 6m off means an uncertainty of 3m which does not even imply to be 100% guaranteed !

[+Oxford Stone]

I did 4 caches today (taking me up to 200 to give you an idea of my experience or lack of it) and in all 4 cases including a previous DNF, it was a case of using GPS to get within 10m and then using my eyes and my rule of thumb, "where would you have hidden it?"

 

Those who moan at bad co-ords would hate Dartmoor letterboxing where clues were often of the type "156 paces on 221 degrees from the granite boulder". This would be on a hillside strewn with granite boulders; the bearing would be disputable, maybe good +/- 10 degrees; and as for paces on undulating ground, forget it. It was a case of looking at every possible hidey-hole, spotting flattened grass or pile-up stones and just plain guessing.

 

I think, bickering aside, we've established that there are times when it's useful to suggest better co-ords if a lot of logs show people are getting frustrated.

[+fizzymagic]

Oh, by the way, 6m off means an uncertainty of 3m which does not even imply to be 100% guaranteed !

 

No, it does not.

 

I offer the same advice to you. If you don't understand the math, don't post incorrect assertions about it. You only look foolish.

[+ArtieD]

I agree and most people do not understand or realize the limitations of Civilian GPSr that even the best receivers will only give an accuracy of 6 meters (IE take a string and cut it six meters long stake one end in the ground and walk in a circle, that will give you some idea of the search area in excellent conditions.

 

The above indicates that you are one of the "most people" who do not understand how GPS uncertainties work.

 

My advice: unless you actually know what you are talking about, don't spout off on technical things like this in this forum, as there are people on it who do know what they are talking about.

 

Whether I choose to add better coords to a cache log depends on a lot of factors, but in excellent conditions 6 meters is pretty far off.

 

I wish "Most People" did and were trained by the people that made the GPS, I do know what I am talking about do you?? No it seems not. You might not spout off when you have no clue of my experience.

 

Mighty strong words there for someone who doesn't know fizzymagic at all. I am not sure if I am addressing the kid or the adult using this account at the moment, but whoever it is, grow up. You have a major chip on your shoulder and it has gotten quite old seeing you act the fool. Try closing your mouth once in a while and try to learn a thing or two.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Arthur & Trillian

[+JL_HSTRE]

If my GPS says I am more than 30 ft off GZ then I will post my GPS' coords in my log. I really wish others would do the same.

 

For 20-30 ft off I will usually say something like "Found the cache south of where my GPS told me to go."

[+Off Grid]

Or I can post freely in the forums and I do know what I'm talking about

[+-CJ-]

This conversation shows how arguable are remarks about "poor coordinates".

 

When I joined the game I soon got a similar log for one of my fist geocaches. The guy stated that coordinates were not OK and attached his own coords. I thought it was a good advice and changed my coordinates. After some time I noticed that the guy obviously was happy to leave different notes like "there's a grammar error here" or "there could be a bigger container" or "difficulty is actually 1 not 1.5" or "the hiding place is too close to low (high, narrow, far away)", etc. He could not resist educating others even when it was not really necessary. I will leave no notes about coordinates if they are 5-6 meters off the hiding place. If more, my action will depend on the "level of importance" of the coordinates. Many geocaches can be found relatively easy without exact coordinates (but also with descriptions, photos, common sense) and this could be interesting.

Edited March 3, 2013 by -CJ-

[+TheLoneGrangers]

If it's more than 50 I usually add in coordinates. If it's not I just mention that my GPS said I was 30 feet away.

 

I pretty much do the same thing, unless I am using my phone then I don't bother, because I haven't had much luck with using my phone to cache anyways

[+ras_oscar]

I am certainly not a technical expert in the error ratio of GPS receivers. However, I do know that 95t% of the finds I have made were less than 20 feet from the posted coordinates. I seldom post updated coordinates, since its equally likely that my receiver was in error. If I find a container that is more than 30 feet from the posted coordinates, I will log something like "Found the container XX feet from posted coordinates" It's then up to the CO to determine whether or not to check the coordinates on their next maintenance run. I do not have the text of previous logs available to me in the field, so "updated" coordinates would not assist me unless I did research and returned on a later caching run.

[+CanadianRockies]

I am certainly not a technical expert in the error ratio of GPS receivers. However, I do know that 95t% of the finds I have made were less than 20 feet from the posted coordinates. I seldom post updated coordinates, since its equally likely that my receiver was in error. If I find a container that is more than 30 feet from the posted coordinates, I will log something like "Found the container XX feet from posted coordinates"

I think it's kinder (and more accurate) to say something like "Found the container XX feet from my GPSr's GZ" rather than "Found the container XX feet from posted coordinates."

[+Off Grid]

Yeah but if you use three different devices and yoiu go up to it and itrs way off than do you say something or...

[+rjb43nh]

>The above indicates that you are one of the "most people" who do not understand how GPS uncertainties work.

 

Well "most people" can sometimes be correct. As a simple experiment place your GPS outside with a clear view of the sky and leave it for an hour or so and observe the track. Even under good conditions the track will wander all over the place but the average will be quite close to the correct location. The screen shot I just captured on my Garmin 62s took 1 hour and shows how the GPS wanders in the vicinity of the correct location with the scale set to 20 feet.

If you were to place a cache, there is a possibility that your reading could be on the edge of this area where the correct coordinates are (this is the reason why you should take multiple readings or use the average feature on your GPS). If a cacher is looking for this cache you placed, their GPS could possibly be on the edge of their circle of uncertainty, adding to the error. The antennas on handheld GPS receivers are prone to multipath signals in real and urban canyons and this will degrade the accuracy as well. The dipole moment of water molecules (which acts like little antennas absorbing certain signal frequencies) has minimal effect on the 1575.42Mhz L1 frequency used by handheld GPS receivers.

 

I have several GPS timing receivers in my workshop with fixed antennas on the roof. These receivers use information from the satellite’s internal clocks to discipline my crystal or atomic frequency standards. To achieve the parts in 10E-13 accuracy, these receivers average their position over either a 24 or 48 hour period to get their location as close as possible. These specialized GPS timing receivers are used at cell towers, govt., and private labs where accuracy is of prime importance. Obviously you can’t average your readings at a cache site for 24 hours and generally getting within 20 feet is all you’ll need.

[+K13]

If the posted coordinates were good enough for you to find the cache, then they should be good enough for anyone else. Be happy with your smiley and move along to the next cache.

Posting "correct" coordinates or bemoaning the cache owner to revise the cache page smacks of egotism on the part of the finder. (MY GPSr is more accurate than yours/I am a better cacher than you)

[+CanadianRockies]

If the posted coordinates were good enough for you to find the cache, then they should be good enough for anyone else. Be happy with your smiley and move along to the next cache.

Posting "correct" coordinates or bemoaning the cache owner to revise the cache page smacks of egotism on the part of the finder. (MY GPSr is more accurate than yours/I am a better cacher than you)

For most people, I think it's a matter being helpful rather than egotistical. For whatever reason, people sometimes publish poor coordinates. If I spend 30 minutes looking and find the cache 60 feet from my GPSr's GZ (and my GPSr's accuracy isn't bad at the time), then I'll mention alternative coordinates in my log. It doesn't necessarily mean my GPSr is better, but it might mean my GPSr's reception was better on that particular day.

 

When I mention the alternative coordinates, other geocachers can feel free to use them if they think it might be helpful, and the cache owner can feel free to use my coordinates if they want to update their cache page. I've gotten several thank you notes from cache owners and no complaints yet.

[+The_Incredibles_]

If the posted coordinates were good enough for you to find the cache, then they should be good enough for anyone else. Be happy with your smiley and move along to the next cache.

Posting "correct" coordinates or bemoaning the cache owner to revise the cache page smacks of egotism on the part of the finder. (MY GPSr is more accurate than yours/I am a better cacher than you)

 

I once found a cache that was 100 meters off. Are you saying I shouldn't have been helpful and posted new coords?

[+tozainamboku]

Many geocaches can be found relatively easy without exact coordinates (but also with descriptions, photos, common sense) and this could be interesting.

Whenever I see someone posting corrected coordinates, I always think, "You were able to find the cache with the posted coordinates, why shouldn't the next person be able to do the same?"

 

Of course that doesn't mean that I don't look at corrected coordinates or that I don't leave them myself. Sometimes it's clear that the cache owner made an inadvertent error or sometimes the owner will post that they had trouble getting a consistent reading and would like others to post the coordinates where they found the cache.

 

Most often however the error is because cache owners don't understand the nature of error in GPS measurements. The just snap a reading and us it. While most of the time this will be within 6 meters, sometimes it isn't.

 

By averaging several measurements taken over a period of time the repeatability is improved. Note that the period of some errors make it hard for a cache owner to average them out. Multi-path error (or signal bounce) can account for a big error in the coordinates. This error will change as the satellites orbit above. Depending on what satellites you can see and where they are in the sky, the reading can change hundreds of feet. Therefore each cacher may find the cache at completely different coordinates. In open areas with a clear view of the sky in all directions, signal bounce becomes less of a problem.

[+dprovan]

Fortunately I normally can't find caches with bad coordinates -- I have enough trouble with good coordinates -- so I don't have to worry about this too much. The most common case for me is when I used an experienced finder's corrected coordinates to find a newbie's hide. When I do that, I normally echo the corrected coordinates that worked for me because I know the original corrected coordinates won't stay in the recent logs for future seekers to find. I'm very often amazed that anyone found it to post corrected coordinates when I see how far off they are.

 

One annoying thing that happens to me from time to time is when I can't find a cache and check the logs, I find one that says, "Found it at these alternate coordinates", but there are no alternate coordinates. Not the logger's fault: my PN-60 doesn't show me those coordinates attached to log entries, so if I don't noticed something like that at home and bring the correction with me, I'm stuck. That's almost as annoying as "Found the the corrected coordinates ExperiencedCacher posted", when, of course, ExperiencedCacher's log with its coordinates is too far in the past to be in my unit.

[+DanOCan]

I factor in the previous logs when it comes to taking new coordinates. If a number of people mention finding the coordinates to be off then I'll be more likely to snap a new set. If I seem to be the only one who had an issue I'll assume my GPSr is off. I might mention I found the cache a distance off my ground zero (in case others were having the same issue but were too worried about being polite to say anything).

 

I'll often check the coordinates I got against the posted coordinates in something like Mapsource. If my coordinates are 10m NE of the posted coordinates and that jives with what I saw in the field I'll be sure to include them.

 

What bothers me is when people say "Found easily using so-and-so's coordinates" but then neglect to say what they actually are. It's not so bad now with having smartphones (you can always look it up on the site) but was very annoying when you'd only have the last five logs and the helpful coordinates hadn't been captured when sending the data to the GPSr.

[+Oxford Stone]

I've just spent a couple of minutes tweaking co-ords on Google Maps to get the green arrow right where I intend to hide a cache. Next step will be to go there with C:Geo on my phone and see how close the two readings are! I think I'll use the Google ones if in doubt and will do elsewhere. I know this won't work for caches hidden in forests, but surely it's a fail-safe check otherwise? (And no, I don't live on the Nicaraguan border)

This lunchtime GPS took me straight to a cache in woods without having a hissy fit and bouncing around. Not complaining but it's rare!

[+lamoracke]

If I feel the coords were off for me, sometimes I will post my coordinates, not to berate the CO, but to perhaps help another cacher who has similar troubles. Coords will vary depending on the device one has or some areas are just prone to weirdness (we have Forrest Park up here which is nuts for that), so I will try to explain my log this is to just help other cachers. I do "try" to be delicate more now when I post alternate coords.

[+hzoi]

I am certainly not a technical expert in the error ratio of GPS receivers. However, I do know that 95t% of the finds I have made were less than 20 feet from the posted coordinates. I seldom post updated coordinates, since its equally likely that my receiver was in error. If I find a container that is more than 30 feet from the posted coordinates, I will log something like "Found the container XX feet from posted coordinates"

I think it's kinder (and more accurate) to say something like "Found the container XX feet from my GPSr's GZ" rather than "Found the container XX feet from posted coordinates."

 

Typically how I put it.

 

"My GPSr had me about 30' away today."

 

"My GPSr had me a ways away, I averaged some coordinates and am posting what I got."

[+Oxford Stone]

Did a reconnaissance for a possible cache last night and noted co-ords as given via c:geo compass on phone. Google Maps disagrees by .004 and .001 (urban cache, site easily spotted on satellite view) - so I'll go with Google I think!

[+MKFmly]

Did a reconnaissance for a possible cache last night and noted co-ords as given via c:geo compass on phone. Google Maps disagrees by .004 and .001 (urban cache, site easily spotted on satellite view) - so I'll go with Google I think!

 

Please take note that Google satellite imagery is often misaligned with the real world. Using the Google application as a substitute for surveying in your cache location is asking for trouble (use a GPSr not a phone). Satellite imagery is great for getting “close coordinates” for your initial cache page setup but is not appropriate for surveying.

[+cerberus1]

Did a reconnaissance for a possible cache last night and noted co-ords as given via c:geo compass on phone. Google Maps disagrees by .004 and .001 (urban cache, site easily spotted on satellite view) - so I'll go with Google I think!

 

Please take note that Google satellite imagery is often misaligned with the real world. Using the Google application as a substitute for surveying in your cache location is asking for trouble (use a GPSr not a phone). Satellite imagery is great for getting “close coordinates” for your initial cache page setup but is not appropriate for surveying.

I agree.

Also, there's the guideline that says, "you must visit the cache location and obtain the coordinates with a GPS device".