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Delay Feature on Grabbing Trackables.


South Lyon Trekkers
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I am finding more and more often, that cachers are grabbing trackables without trying to notify the cacher who is holding the trackable in his or her inventory. When I started caching the rule of thumb was to give a cacher 24 to 48 hours before grabbing a trackable AFTER sending a friendly e-mail. I know part of the issue is the accessibility of the Internet while out caching, but that does not excuse poor etiquette. Last month, I did receive an e-mail asking me to log a trackable. I appreciated that. However, I received the e-mail no less than two hours after I had dropped off the geocoin and I was still out caching. In fact, it was still morning. I don't see GC.com teaching patience, so... I would like to see a feature where, once the grab is initiated, there is an e-mail automatically sent to the holder indicating the trackable has been picked up and another cacher is waiting to log it. A 24 hour wait period follows (unless the holder accepts the grab) and then the trackable is released. This would not apply to trackables listed in (wrong) caches or unknown locations.

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Given how difficult it is to get most cachers to log bugs correctly, I think this suggestion would just make it needlessly complicated.

 

My method is that if I pick up a bug that shows in another cachers possession, I'll do a bit of research to see if they were out caching that day. If they were, I'll hold off on grabbing the bug until the next day. If not or they don't drop the bug, I'll grab it and dip it into the cache I picked it up out of. That seems to work well enough.

 

If someone grabs it from me before I log it (hasn't happened yet), I just hope that they dip it into the cache I dropped it in. If not, I don't get too worked up about it.

 

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Alas, just one of many problems where some people cache with smartphones and some cache with a GPS.

 

It's hard to see any way to balance the impatience of the cacher wanting to grab the TB right now and the cacher away from home who scattered a bunch of TBs but won't be logging anything for a few days without creating the potential complications of either the TB's actual location being wildly different from its stated location or the very sporadic cacher forgetting to log that they dropped a bug and ending up with the bug locked forever in their possession.

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I'm just happy that TBs move at all.

 

I have always had patience waiting for others to properly log moves before I do a 'grab' but time/circumstances could easily affect how quickly I do it and how quickly the next cacher 'needs' me to do it. I used to be bugged about it being logged out of my possession but I just don't let it bother me anymore. It is the TB owner that misses out - not me.

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Alas, just one of many problems where some people cache with smartphones and some cache with a GPS.

 

It's hard to see any way to balance the impatience of the cacher wanting to grab the TB right now and the cacher away from home who scattered a bunch of TBs but won't be logging anything for a few days without creating the potential complications of either the TB's actual location being wildly different from its stated location or the very sporadic cacher forgetting to log that they dropped a bug and ending up with the bug locked forever in their possession.

 

I think that this is a very good suggestion that does try to balance the situation out. It will force the cacher that is trying to grab the bug to be patient but also remind me that I need to check it into the cache where I dropped it, just in case I forgot. If they are really impatient and have tried to grab it before I have even returned home from today's caching adventure, I can easily drop a note on the cache to drop the bug, then delete the note and post my found log when I get time.

 

I think that this would actually help keep the travels of the trackables recorded properly.

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Alas, just one of many problems where some people cache with smartphones and some cache with a GPS.

 

It's hard to see any way to balance the impatience of the cacher wanting to grab the TB right now and the cacher away from home who scattered a bunch of TBs but won't be logging anything for a few days without creating the potential complications of either the TB's actual location being wildly different from its stated location or the very sporadic cacher forgetting to log that they dropped a bug and ending up with the bug locked forever in their possession.

 

I think that this is a very good suggestion that does try to balance the situation out. It will force the cacher that is trying to grab the bug to be patient but also remind me that I need to check it into the cache where I dropped it, just in case I forgot. If they are really impatient and have tried to grab it before I have even returned home from today's caching adventure, I can easily drop a note on the cache to drop the bug, then delete the note and post my found log when I get time.

 

I think that this would actually help keep the travels of the trackables recorded properly.

 

The trouble is not everybody has a device that lets them write logs in the field.

 

If a cacher away from home drops a travel bug but won't have internet access for several days they have no way of logging the bug drop, so the next person who comes along with their smartphone and tries to grab the bug will have to grab it from the current holder. So you have the problem of the current holder then wondering where it went.

 

If you deny the next finder the opportunity to just grab the bug you potentially end up with a situation where by the time the person is back from their break and back online the bug has made two or three more moves, further compounding the issue.

 

Any method of restricting the grab by requiring the current holder to authorise it could easily result in ongoing delays as people cache on holiday (I like to gather up travel bugs any time I'm going abroad - although I'm rarely offline for more than a couple of days there have been times I've been abroad and had no internet access for a fortnight).

 

The only other way to avoid it that I can think of is to encourage people not to take bugs away on holiday, which rather defeats the point of travel bugs.

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I have resorted to leaving notes. Back in November and April of 2012 cachers grabbed them out of my possession before I could log drops. This is particularly annoying as I often have multiple visits along my route before the final drop, also photos which TB owners always seem to appreciated. As I record numbers in my personal logging notepad I have grabbed them right back again, so they may make the rounds with me before finally deposited in the place I left them off.

 

Really there has to be a better solution than this. And I have brought this up before, myself. As someone with a trackable number may discover, so to should the someone be able to continue visiting it upon locations and dropping it after the rather rude cacher has grabbed it from their inventory.

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Alas, just one of many problems where some people cache with smartphones and some cache with a GPS.

 

It's hard to see any way to balance the impatience of the cacher wanting to grab the TB right now and the cacher away from home who scattered a bunch of TBs but won't be logging anything for a few days without creating the potential complications of either the TB's actual location being wildly different from its stated location or the very sporadic cacher forgetting to log that they dropped a bug and ending up with the bug locked forever in their possession.

 

I think that this is a very good suggestion that does try to balance the situation out. It will force the cacher that is trying to grab the bug to be patient but also remind me that I need to check it into the cache where I dropped it, just in case I forgot. If they are really impatient and have tried to grab it before I have even returned home from today's caching adventure, I can easily drop a note on the cache to drop the bug, then delete the note and post my found log when I get time.

 

I think that this would actually help keep the travels of the trackables recorded properly.

 

The trouble is not everybody has a device that lets them write logs in the field.

 

If a cacher away from home drops a travel bug but won't have internet access for several days they have no way of logging the bug drop, so the next person who comes along with their smartphone and tries to grab the bug will have to grab it from the current holder. So you have the problem of the current holder then wondering where it went.

 

If you deny the next finder the opportunity to just grab the bug you potentially end up with a situation where by the time the person is back from their break and back online the bug has made two or three more moves, further compounding the issue.

 

Any method of restricting the grab by requiring the current holder to authorise it could easily result in ongoing delays as people cache on holiday (I like to gather up travel bugs any time I'm going abroad - although I'm rarely offline for more than a couple of days there have been times I've been abroad and had no internet access for a fortnight).

 

The only other way to avoid it that I can think of is to encourage people not to take bugs away on holiday, which rather defeats the point of travel bugs.

 

The bottom line is to have communication. Granted, there will always be exceptions. A hand written note may work in the case you described. It might work in the situation I described. I admit not logging caches and trackables for a few days after due to a variety of reasons. Occasionally a trackable does get grabbed from me then. But when my name and date are on the log and the trackable is grabbed the same day, I get irked. I have resorted to copying the trackable code to grab it back. I also write a friendly e-mail to less experienced cachers, sometimes telling them I am grabbing it back and why. (I don't always grab it back.) So far, all have been receptive.

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What I usually do if I grab a trackable is log it into the cache where I found it and then log it out again, so the mileage is correct.

 

Normally I have a quick scan over the profile of the user holding it to try and figure why they didn't log it in yet, although it's inevitable that sometimes I grab the bug when the user was merely offline for a few days. Still, it's inevitable that one way or another someone ends up with an unexpected result, I reckon the best solution is to just not sweat it.

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I wait until the person holding the TB has logged the cache.

If they log the find without dropping the TB, then I grab it from them.

Of course, I then 'dip' it in the cache I got it from, so the mileage is correct.

 

I don't have time to wait to see if someone figures out whether they dropped a trackable or not.

It limits my ability to move it in a timely manner.

 

So, a delay feature? No, thanks anyway.

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I wait until the person holding the TB has logged the cache.

If they log the find without dropping the TB, then I grab it from them.

Of course, I then 'dip' it in the cache I got it from, so the mileage is correct.

 

I don't have time to wait to see if someone figures out whether they dropped a trackable or not.

It limits my ability to move it in a timely manner.

 

So, a delay feature? No, thanks anyway.

 

Maybe just a harmless little nagger ... Have you contacted the current holder of this trackable yet? Please consider doing so before grabbing.

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Maybe just a harmless little nagger ... Have you contacted the current holder of this trackable yet? Please consider doing so before grabbing.

 

Well, that IS what this feature would do for you. It would automatically notify the bug holder that someone else wants to log it. I like the idea behind the feature but judging from past experience, at the end of the 24 hour period, the bug would be freed up to you without the cacher on the other end responding at all. You'd end up spending a day waiting to log a bug you could've logged five minutes after getting home.

 

I used to email cachers that were holding bugs and asking them to log the drop(s) or if it was alright if I grabbed it away from them. The reply rate to those emails was practically zero, so now I just skip that step. If I have the bug in my hands, I know where I found it and the best way to bring it up to speed is to log it into and out of the cache I found it in.

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What I usually do if I grab a trackable is log it into the cache where I found it and then log it out again, so the mileage is correct.

 

Normally I have a quick scan over the profile of the user holding it to try and figure why they didn't log it in yet, although it's inevitable that sometimes I grab the bug when the user was merely offline for a few days. Still, it's inevitable that one way or another someone ends up with an unexpected result, I reckon the best solution is to just not sweat it.

 

I honestly don't see anything wrong with a mechanism that slows the process down for a day, while giving the person trying to do the grab a good explanation as to why he should be patient, as well as notifying me that he is waiting to retrieve the bug from the cache that I dropped it in. Keep in mind that it's a given that everyone participating in this thread understands the process that should be followed and will normally practice patience and communication. It's that guy that is 45 minutes behind me on the trail and retrieves the bug that I just placed and wants to grab it from me with his smartphone, that we need to slow down a bit. A notice to him that he needs to wait and suggesting that he contact me is what I believe the OP was shooting for.

 

I do not have a smartphone, but I do make a point of doing all of my bug logging as soon as I get settled in back at home, even if I don't post the actual found logs until days later.

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Right or wrong, good or bad, every trackable should be able to be listed to show exactly where it's at.

 

My TB location is more important than your delay to log it.

 

Is it more important than keeping an accurate history? That's an honest question. The one that wants instant gratification and simply must grab the bug from another user instead of waiting a bit for that user to properly drop it, is probably not the type that is going to fix the history by dipping it into the cache that he took it from. So then, we get the guy who dropped it who decides to grab it back and log it into the cache where he dropped it, but he can't return it to the others inventory. Now, it's listed in a cache that it's not really in. The guy who has it drops it into another cache, but can't find it in his inventory, so he does nothing. Third party comes by and sees a cool coin/TB that isn't logged into the cache and decides that it would make a good memento.

 

I can see a scenario like this. I drop off a bug and get home and see an email notice, "CacherX is trying to grab "Travel Bug" from your inventory. If you agree, click here. This action will automatically be initiated in 24 hours if you do not respond. If you have recently dropped "Travel Bug" into a cache, (instructions on how to drop it, with instructions on how to use a note if you have already posted a find)". Not only will it help keep the history and mileage correct, it will educate both parties on the proper logging of travel bugs. I can't see how this can do anything but help.

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Right or wrong, good or bad, every trackable should be able to be listed to show exactly where it's at.

 

My TB location is more important than your delay to log it.

 

Is it more important than keeping an accurate history? That's an honest question. The one that wants instant gratification and simply must grab the bug from another user instead of waiting a bit for that user to properly drop it, is probably not the type that is going to fix the history by dipping it into the cache that he took it from. So then, we get the guy who dropped it who decides to grab it back and log it into the cache where he dropped it, but he can't return it to the others inventory. Now, it's listed in a cache that it's not really in. The guy who has it drops it into another cache, but can't find it in his inventory, so he does nothing. Third party comes by and sees a cool coin/TB that isn't logged into the cache and decides that it would make a good memento.

 

I can see a scenario like this. I drop off a bug and get home and see an email notice, "CacherX is trying to grab "Travel Bug" from your inventory. If you agree, click here. This action will automatically be initiated in 24 hours if you do not respond. If you have recently dropped "Travel Bug" into a cache, (instructions on how to drop it, with instructions on how to use a note if you have already posted a find)". Not only will it help keep the history and mileage correct, it will educate both parties on the proper logging of travel bugs. I can't see how this can do anything but help.

 

It's been a while since I've had to say this but all logging can be corrected at any time. Keeping the bug listed where it's at is far more important. If you don't it gets lost.

 

Limiting online has nothing to do with the fact that a TB moves real world.

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What I usually do if I grab a trackable is log it into the cache where I found it and then log it out again, so the mileage is correct.

 

Normally I have a quick scan over the profile of the user holding it to try and figure why they didn't log it in yet, although it's inevitable that sometimes I grab the bug when the user was merely offline for a few days. Still, it's inevitable that one way or another someone ends up with an unexpected result, I reckon the best solution is to just not sweat it.

 

I honestly don't see anything wrong with a mechanism that slows the process down for a day, while giving the person trying to do the grab a good explanation as to why he should be patient, as well as notifying me that he is waiting to retrieve the bug from the cache that I dropped it in. Keep in mind that it's a given that everyone participating in this thread understands the process that should be followed and will normally practice patience and communication. It's that guy that is 45 minutes behind me on the trail and retrieves the bug that I just placed and wants to grab it from me with his smartphone, that we need to slow down a bit. A notice to him that he needs to wait and suggesting that he contact me is what I believe the OP was shooting for.

 

I do not have a smartphone, but I do make a point of doing all of my bug logging as soon as I get settled in back at home, even if I don't post the actual found logs until days later.

 

Slowing it down for a day isn't necessarily a problem but just how long should someone be given?

 

If someone is away from home and offline for a few days, drops a travel bug on their first day away and then does a bulk log at the end of the week, should the TB effectively be frozen in time until they have chance to log it? It could easily have moved again by then, maybe more than once if it is lucky enough to land in frequently visited caches.

 

The notice to the guy 45 minutes behind you with a smartphone is all well and good but what if you're the one away from home for a week? Holding him up until the evening until you get chance to log it is all well and good but nobody has any way of knowing whether you didn't log it into the cache because you forgot or didn't know how to, because you're on a caching run and you'll log it tonight, because you're on holiday and will log it some time next week, or because someone else put it there a couple of weeks back and for whatever reason didn't log it into the cache.

 

I don't cache by smartphone so don't have issues with the concept of not logging the trackable the very nanosecond I pull it out of a cache but even so will only wait so long before just grabbing the bug from whoever is holding it.

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Right or wrong, good or bad, every trackable should be able to be listed to show exactly where it's at.

 

My TB location is more important than your delay to log it.

 

Is it more important than keeping an accurate history? That's an honest question. The one that wants instant gratification and simply must grab the bug from another user instead of waiting a bit for that user to properly drop it, is probably not the type that is going to fix the history by dipping it into the cache that he took it from. So then, we get the guy who dropped it who decides to grab it back and log it into the cache where he dropped it, but he can't return it to the others inventory. Now, it's listed in a cache that it's not really in. The guy who has it drops it into another cache, but can't find it in his inventory, so he does nothing. Third party comes by and sees a cool coin/TB that isn't logged into the cache and decides that it would make a good memento.

 

I can see a scenario like this. I drop off a bug and get home and see an email notice, "CacherX is trying to grab "Travel Bug" from your inventory. If you agree, click here. This action will automatically be initiated in 24 hours if you do not respond. If you have recently dropped "Travel Bug" into a cache, (instructions on how to drop it, with instructions on how to use a note if you have already posted a find)". Not only will it help keep the history and mileage correct, it will educate both parties on the proper logging of travel bugs. I can't see how this can do anything but help.

 

Interesting thought, perhaps the delay in grabbing it from a person could work two ways.

 

If you want to grab it from a person directly they have to click a link to agree, however long that takes.

 

If you want to grab it on the basis you found it and it wasn't logged, you have the 24-hour delay (or whatever time is considered appropriate) but also have to specify where you did find it (as opposed to just "somewhere else"). So you enter the cache details and if the current holder doesn't respond to the grab request it automatically gets logged into the relevant cache and out into the hands of whoever grabbed it.

 

The history might not be strictly accurate but it seems like a happy medium.

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I wait until the person holding the TB has logged the cache.

If they log the find without dropping the TB, then I grab it from them.

Of course, I then 'dip' it in the cache I got it from, so the mileage is correct.

 

I don't have time to wait to see if someone figures out whether they dropped a trackable or not.

It limits my ability to move it in a timely manner.

 

So, a delay feature? No, thanks anyway.

 

Maybe just a harmless little nagger ... Have you contacted the current holder of this trackable yet? Please consider doing so before grabbing.

 

This is not a regular occurrence, but the one time it did happen I think I did send a PM, and got no reply.

After two days I did what I had to do.

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What I usually do if I grab a trackable is log it into the cache where I found it and then log it out again, so the mileage is correct.

 

Normally I have a quick scan over the profile of the user holding it to try and figure why they didn't log it in yet, although it's inevitable that sometimes I grab the bug when the user was merely offline for a few days. Still, it's inevitable that one way or another someone ends up with an unexpected result, I reckon the best solution is to just not sweat it.

 

I honestly don't see anything wrong with a mechanism that slows the process down for a day, while giving the person trying to do the grab a good explanation as to why he should be patient, as well as notifying me that he is waiting to retrieve the bug from the cache that I dropped it in. Keep in mind that it's a given that everyone participating in this thread understands the process that should be followed and will normally practice patience and communication. It's that guy that is 45 minutes behind me on the trail and retrieves the bug that I just placed and wants to grab it from me with his smartphone, that we need to slow down a bit. A notice to him that he needs to wait and suggesting that he contact me is what I believe the OP was shooting for.

 

I do not have a smartphone, but I do make a point of doing all of my bug logging as soon as I get settled in back at home, even if I don't post the actual found logs until days later.

 

Slowing it down for a day isn't necessarily a problem but just how long should someone be given?

 

If someone is away from home and offline for a few days, drops a travel bug on their first day away and then does a bulk log at the end of the week, should the TB effectively be frozen in time until they have chance to log it? It could easily have moved again by then, maybe more than once if it is lucky enough to land in frequently visited caches.

 

The notice to the guy 45 minutes behind you with a smartphone is all well and good but what if you're the one away from home for a week? Holding him up until the evening until you get chance to log it is all well and good but nobody has any way of knowing whether you didn't log it into the cache because you forgot or didn't know how to, because you're on a caching run and you'll log it tonight, because you're on holiday and will log it some time next week, or because someone else put it there a couple of weeks back and for whatever reason didn't log it into the cache.

 

I don't cache by smartphone so don't have issues with the concept of not logging the trackable the very nanosecond I pull it out of a cache but even so will only wait so long before just grabbing the bug from whoever is holding it.

 

Well, we're up to post #17 and the entire discussion has been based on 24 hrs. Now you have a bug locked for all of eternity, How did that happen?

 

Edit to throw in a :)

Edited by Don_J
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Well, we're up to post #17 and the entire discussion has been based on 24 hrs. Now you have a bug locked for all of eternity, How did that happen?

 

Edit to throw in a :)

 

You know the way some people are - you give them an inch and they take a light year :)

 

Seriously though, my concern with a delay is how to strike the balance between giving someone a fair chance to log the fact they dropped a TB with needing to just update the web site with its current location.

 

Since most of the problem relates to people caching with smartphones perhaps another option would be to let the app store a note to show where the cache was found so that a log can be written as soon as the bug is marked as being dropped off. That buys enough time until the retrieving cacher places the TB elsewhere so, assuming they don't grab a bug and drop it off later the same day, an allowance of 24 hours will be enough in most cases.

 

I guess the fundamental problem with people is that if others are grabbing bugs out of their inventory they may get annoyed and call for a delay to reduce the annoyance but whatever delay is implemented it's only a question of time before someone gets upset because another cacher grabbed a bug from them after 24 hours and 6 minutes whereas if that person had only given them a chance (for "a chance" read "something more than the approved delay time) they could have logged it into the cache themselves.

 

I'm still leaning towards requiring approval to grab directly from another cacher, however long that takes, but allowing a grab via a listed cache with a delay in order to ensure the site shows the actual location of the trackables. If someone were keen enough to pick up a TB and drop it somewhere else within the same day perhaps the delay could be overridden, although that could be a tricky one to implement on the web site - it would need some form of queueing of trackable logs with specific triggers that would post the entire outstanding queue.

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Being a new Cacher to the game, I am really trying to follow what you guys are saying here. I have been to many caches that say they have trackables or inventory in them, yet don't. Is this due to what you are talking about here? At this point I am one of those people who cache with a cell phone because that was how it was introduced to me. I am working towards being able to buy a handheld GPS because I recognize the need in many circumstances. Either way, I am always left wondering what happened to the items that have been logged into a cache and are not present when I get there. Can they be logged into different caches simultaneously? Does it get corrected when it finally gets logged into another cache? Should Geocaching.com put out an email similar to the one we just received concerning the DNFs, only addressing the issue that cachers seriously need to log inventory in and out. I went to a cache today that showed 2 pieces of inventory that was supposed to have been in there for a couple weeks. No one else has signed the log since the two cachers that dropped the TBs. Where did they go? Maybe some random person just stealing them? Why steal just them and not anything else or even the whole cache? I only have 78 finds so far and I haven't made any hides myself yet, or released any trackables of my own but it would be nice to have a better understanding of these things before I do.

 

This is my first post so go easy on me if out of line or mis-posting.

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Being a new Cacher to the game, I am really trying to follow what you guys are saying here. I have been to many caches that say they have trackables or inventory in them, yet don't. Is this due to what you are talking about here? At this point I am one of those people who cache with a cell phone because that was how it was introduced to me. I am working towards being able to buy a handheld GPS because I recognize the need in many circumstances. Either way, I am always left wondering what happened to the items that have been logged into a cache and are not present when I get there. Can they be logged into different caches simultaneously? Does it get corrected when it finally gets logged into another cache? Should Geocaching.com put out an email similar to the one we just received concerning the DNFs, only addressing the issue that cachers seriously need to log inventory in and out. I went to a cache today that showed 2 pieces of inventory that was supposed to have been in there for a couple weeks. No one else has signed the log since the two cachers that dropped the TBs. Where did they go? Maybe some random person just stealing them? Why steal just them and not anything else or even the whole cache? I only have 78 finds so far and I haven't made any hides myself yet, or released any trackables of my own but it would be nice to have a better understanding of these things before I do.

 

This is my first post so go easy on me if out of line or mis-posting.

 

What you're seeing could be caused by a few things although generally not directly related to the issue here.

 

Sometimes people will pick up the trackable earlier in the day, and you find the cache before they've had chance to log the fact they took the trackable.

 

Other times people pick up a trackable and don't realise how to log it, so they just move it on somewhere else. Sometimes they don't even realise a trackable is a trackable so take it home thinking it's a trade item.

 

Then of course there are the people who steal them. Usually I'd expect people to steal unusual geocoins rather than some piece of junk with a travel bug tag on it but if the item in question is useful in any way I wouldn't be surprised if it went missing. I released a couple of odd-shaped bottle openers as travel bugs and both disappeared quickly.

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Forget having a logging delay. just encourage people to dip trackables that have not been logged into the cache yet. Far simpler and ensures the TB is listed as visting the cache in question.

 

You're going to have to drop it somewhere, sooner or later. :P

 

And when you do, there is the chance (unless you log the drop immediately, with a smartphone) that someone will come along and pick it up before you log the cache and TB drop.

IF THEY ARE COURTEOUS, they will wait (a reasonable length of time) for you to log the cache and drop the TB.

 

If you log the find but not the TB drop, all bets are off, and I would expect the TB to be grabbed from me.

 

If you are months behind in logging, stay home and do the logging before going out again! :mad:

 

A few years back I was on vacation, and didn't do any logging for about a week due to internet availability. When I went to log the cache I dropped a TB in, I notice the TB had been grabbed from me. It would have been nice if the person who picked up the TB noticed I hadn't logged the cache yet, and sent me a note...but they didn't.

 

The TB was moving, and I didn't let it ruin my day.

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