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Garmin Rino 110/120

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Hi there!

I'm interested in the new Garmin gadget which is combined radio and GPS. I've been waiting for a long time for this because Garmin said it would be on the market in May, then delayed to June, and now delayed to September. That make me curios, what the hack happen with that? Why delayed? Any of you could give me information about this combined stuff? Is it good? Bad? Unknown? Or....? Anykind of input.... Thanks!!!

 

Budi - Seattle

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The Garmin spokesman told me they want to come out with a quality product, so there have been some delays in engineering. In addition, getting FCC approval may have taken longer than expected.

 

That's all I know. Patience my little smurf icon_biggrin.gif

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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The Garmin spokesman told me they want to come out with a quality product, so there have been some delays in engineering. In addition, getting FCC approval may have taken longer than expected.

 

That's all I know. Patience my little smurf icon_biggrin.gif

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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Technically, at the time that Garmin proposed the peer-to-peer position addition to FRS, it was not allowed by the rules. FRS is voice only, and the P2P/P is a digital transmission.

 

We did some digging last night, and found that the FCC had gotten part way through the process of amending the rules, but can't find evidence that they finished.

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Has anyone actually SEEN the audiovox? I saw it show up in some catalogs over a year ago, then it disapeared from later catalogs.

 

Illegitimus non carborundum!

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quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

Has anyone actually SEEN the audiovox? I saw it show up in some catalogs over a year ago, then it disapeared from later catalogs.

 

+ _Illegitimus non carborundum!_


 

yes. i saw one in the Fry's store in Palo Alto CA, yesterday.

 

of course, there's no way to get Fry's staff to demo anything, so that's all i can tell you about it.

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I gave up buying Audiovox gear a long time ago. Unless they have shaped up they are VERY poor in the workmanship and reliability department. Besides, the Audiovox to my knowledge does NOT have the capability to transmit your cords to the other person via FRS/GMRS. Garmin I think has the patent pending on that. Which I believe is the delay.

 

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net

mdgeocachinglogosmall.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Randall J. Berry:

I gave up buying Audiovox gear a long time ago. Unless they have shaped up they are VERY poor in the workmanship and reliability department. Besides, the Audiovox to my knowledge does NOT have the capability to transmit your cords to the other person via FRS/GMRS. Garmin I think has the patent pending on that. Which I believe is the delay.

 

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net)

http://www.mdgps.net

 

Garmin has a patent appplication for their Person-to-Person Positioning (P2PP) stuff. Can't recall if it has been granted or not, although it pretty obviously shouldn't be.

 

That, however, is not the cause for the delay. For Garmin to legally do P2PP on FRS, the FCC has to change the rules. Garmin has applied for the rule change, the FCC was going to, but, to date, they have not.

 

Also, all consumer electronics devices need FCC approval, and Garmin has apparently not gotten that either.

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Also, if I'm not mistaken isn't FRS limited to +/-3.5 KHz or less? In order for an effective digital Packet to be sent 3.5 KC's is a little narrow. Unless you are pretty close to eachother. (probably withing shouting distance LOL) As I recal on my Packet days less than +/-5 KHz really didn't get you very far.. And that was using an 80ft tower with a 4 el. yagi.. Once I turned the deviation up a bit closer to 5 KHz max Digi-peaters and other stations heard me just fine.

 

Packet was kinda cool though.. I did manage to work the Space Shuttle (W5RRR) twice on 2 different SAREX missions. Never did get my QSL though.. Oh well. I heard them voice once but I cought them too late and they left my window before I could make a call.

 

For those curious.. The Space Shuttle used a modified Icom IC-02 AT. a 2.5/5 watt handheld transceiver! So yes, a little power goes a looooonng way when you are in space looking down!

 

Only problem is they're traveling so fast you've got about 30 Sec. to grab a contact! Otherwise they fly out of your RF Horizon, or Window.

 

(Another really cool reason to get a Ham Radio License!)

 

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net

mdgeocachinglogosmall.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Randall J. Berry:

 

Also, if I'm not mistaken isn't FRS limited to +/-3.5 KHz or less? In order for an effective digital Packet to be sent 3.5 KC's is a little narrow. Unless you are pretty close to each other. (probably withing shouting distance LOL) As I recal on my Packet days less than +/-5 KHz really didn't get you very far..

 

Randall J. Berry

davros@mdgps.net)

http://www.mdgps.net

 

Not true. Signal bandwidth has nothing to do with the distance a signal can be transmitted. That is a function of signal strength only. For this note, we will assume you are talkig just digital transmissions here. Also, if you are sending a narrow band signal to a wide band receiver, it doesn't work, so we will assume both are either narrow or wide. (FRS?) BANDWIDTH is the width of frequency at which the mean power of the signal is down 26 dB. Most V/UHF ham systems operate at 3.5 kHz bandwidth for packet (5 kHz maximum), and as you indicated, digital transmissions to the MIR spacecraft, the ISS, and many other satellites are made daily. This is thousands of miles on 3.5 kHz.

 

Bandwidth is a limiting factor in digital transmission SPEED. This is why signals below 28 MHz are limited to 300 baud, below 420 MHz limited to 9.6 Kbaud, and etc. This is also why phone lines are limited to ~50 K-baud. The bandwidth of the line cannot support more. As the digital speed increases, so does the bandwidth.

 

3.5 kHz is enough to send 1200 baud packets at 450 MHz, which is where the FRS radios operate at. If you have a clear voice contact, the digital will go through just fine too. I won't bore you with the math, it is in the ARRL handbook if you would like to see it.

 

Mike. KD9KC.

El Paso, Texas.

 

Seventeen minutes after her FIRST call for help, police officers arrived to find Ronyale White dead.

 

Prohibiting self defense is the ultimate crime. Police carry guns to protect themselves. What protects YOU ???

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Cheapo!! its said it was an 8 satellite GPS reciever. It was quite big as well. Didn't quite look like a quality item to me.

Seth

 

AchStone

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quote:
Originally posted by Marty Fouts:

Garmin has a patent appplication for their Person-to-Person Positioning (P2PP) stuff. Can't recall if it has been granted or not, although it pretty obviously shouldn't be.

 

That, however, is not the cause for the delay. For Garmin to legally do P2PP on FRS, the FCC has to change the rules. Garmin has applied for the rule change, the FCC was going to, but, to date, they have not.


 

Garmin's behavior here makes me sick. The government's behavior makes me sicker.

 

Garmin applies for a patent on sending data over a voice-only part of the public spectrum. The patent office grants them a patent for their "novel" idea, which just happens to be illegal.

 

Garmin then lobbies the FCC to make their device legal, thus giving them an exclusive lock on the technology.

 

Our tax dollars at work...

 

--

Dan Foster

TopoGrafix: GPS Software, Waypoints, and Maps

http://www.topografix.com/

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quote:
Originally posted by TopoGrafix:

Garmin's behavior here makes me sick. The government's behavior makes me sicker.

 

Garmin applies for a patent on sending data over a voice-only part of the public spectrum. The patent office grants them a patent for their "novel" idea, which just happens to be illegal.

 

Garmin then lobbies the FCC to make their device legal, thus giving them an exclusive lock on the technology.

 

Our tax dollars at work...

 

--

Dan Foster

TopoGrafix: GPS Software, Waypoints, and Maps

http://www.topografix.com/

 

Wow, I think your anger is terribly misplaced, unless you've seen Garmin's patent application, and it says something like "Methodfor violating FCC regulations."

 

Patents help protect original ideas, nothing more. They have nothing to do with if, how or when those ideas might be used.

 

Do you happen to know what Garmin's patent covers?

 

ApK

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quote:
Originally posted by ApK:

 

Patents help protect original ideas, nothing more. They have nothing to do with if, how or when those ideas might be used.

 

Do you happen to know what Garmin's patent covers?

 

ApK


 

This is a common misunderstanding. Patents do not protect original ideas. You can not, in fact, patent an idea.

 

Rather than debate patent law, which is off topic for these Fora, I would recommend that anyone interested in understanding US Patent law find a copy of the Nolo Press book Nolo's Patents for Beginners. Yous should be able to find it at a good public library, or you can buy it directly from Nolo's web site.

 

For those interest in what the Garmin patent covers, it is U.S. patent 6,373,430. You can search for it by number at the USPTO web site

 

kg6nee

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quote:
Originally posted by TopoGrafix:

 

Garmin's behavior here makes me sick. The government's behavior makes me sicker.

 

Garmin applies for a patent on sending data over a voice-only part of the public spectrum. The patent office grants them a patent for their "novel" idea, which just happens to be illegal.

 

Garmin then lobbies the FCC to make their device legal, thus giving them an exclusive lock on the technology.

 

Our tax dollars at work...

 

--

Dan Foster

TopoGrafix: GPS Software, Waypoints, and Maps

http://www.topografix.com/

 

The garmin patent is more general than that. On the face of it, the patent is probably valid unless prior art of the principle claim can be demonstrated. I believe that prior art exists, in the form of the amateur APRS service, but I'm not inclined to challenge the patent.

 

kg6nee

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Deleted

 

[This message was edited by ApK on September 17, 2002 at 06:50 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Marty Fouts:

The garmin patent is more general than that. On the face of it, the patent is probably valid unless prior art of the principle claim can be demonstrated. I believe that prior art exists, in the form of the amateur APRS service, but I'm not inclined to challenge the patent.

 

kg6nee


 

I looked at the abstract for that patent you mentioned. For the reasons you say, I'm very suprised they got one so general. I really was expecting it to be a patent for some technical aspect of signaling or something. It'll be interesting to see if they are ever able to enforce it.

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