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Altering Dangerous Cache


Zerpersande

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Recently I ran across a potentially deadly cache. No joke.

 

Found an easy cache in an I-beam that although you could see the cache, it wasn't a clean line of sight. Easy to get to though. As I was replacing it, I found that a small wasp nest had been built right next to the cache and the nest was inhabited by a lone wasp. My hand had to have come within 3" of the wasp when I initially retrieved it. No way I was sticking my hand back in there. So I moved the cache down about 18" and logged the cache with a note about the nest. Not having read the previous logs, I found that the problem had been logged to the COs attention about a month previous to my find. The description was lengthy so I stated that the CO should disable the cache or at least put a warning at the beginning. Upon checking the listing again later, nothing was done for quite some time, so on another trip past the cache, I got a stick, knocked down the nest, came back to the cache a little later and replaced it in its original position.

 

Bee/wasp stings can kill some people. Now that I think about it, maybe I should have sent a note to the Reviewer. Or since it had been reported, not even logged the cache and stayed out of a sticky situation all together. Thoughts on this?

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Poor lone wasp.

 

On one of my geocaches wasps built their nest around the container - as I've been told by the last visitor. I disabled the cache. (No, it's not at gc.com). Thought about visiting the place in winter when there's no danger and check it. However it is a challenge to get there and back in one day in winter, it's too far from civilization and roads. Still thinking about what to do.

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I would have done as you did originally, that is put the cache in a spot away from the nest...and leave it there. State what you did and why in your log.

 

I probably WOULD NOT have removed the nest. True, wasps are not particularly pretty (to most people) and they sting. But, they are a part of nature and deserve to have their nest just the same.

 

Would you have destroyed a hummingbird's nest so the cache could be there?

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it is MANDETORY to assume danger anywhere !!

as a geocacher you go to a NEW place and look for new things constantly,

offcourse you see wasps, snakes, spiders, sharp and pointy objects, gators and bears and crasy 2 legged persons.

 

you NEWER stick in a hand, before you checked it out,

and you always look carefull to all sides before you cross a road.

 

We dont need a full disclamer and signed warning and accept on own risk document in four copies

before you even consider to get near a cache site,

common sense always apply.

 

Howver you are right, if a previous finder did find something,

like a wasp nest very close to the cache, a friendly finder to finder note about it was written,

the CO could have copied this info and put on his page, would have been a nice thing to do,

but not a demand or a complain if he dont, surely wasps near is ignoring, but no reason to NA a cache.

 

I did create a cache in a dangerous location, and tell all about it in my cache page

simply to educate finders about the things they see there, so they are prepared.

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I would have done as you did originally, that is put the cache in a spot away from the nest...and leave it there. State what you did and why in your log.

 

I probably WOULD NOT have removed the nest. True, wasps are not particularly pretty (to most people) and they sting. But, they are a part of nature and deserve to have their nest just the same.

 

Would you have destroyed a hummingbird's nest so the cache could be there?

Nope, would have probably moved the cache and said nothing. But when it comes to choosing between the safety, prhaps even life, of another person the nest is coming down. They came down when I was growing up, they come down now. This was very ner a train station. Let the net grow and somebody goes for the cache at a bad time? Nope, there is a hierarchy and wasp nests in populated areas rank cery low to me. Sorry. Respect your respect but value human lives over those of wasps even on. Potential basis.

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We dont need a full disclamer and signed warning

common sense always apply.

 

Howver you are right, if a previous finder did find something,

but no reason to NA a cache.

Common sense does apply. And I don't think that NAing the cache would be appropriate. Part of me, keeping the views of some COs in mind, says don't even log it or get involved in any way. Another part, having written this down and actually thought about it, would be inclined to solve the problem at that time and be done with. It was just one wasp, not a full-blown colony.

 

Walking away with the possibility of someone perhaps dying, though not likely, is a hard pill to swallow. At that point, screw the game.

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Good heavens. If we had to archive or move all the caches in my area that might be "dangerous" due to wildlife ( poison ivy, ticks, wasps, bees, ants, Black and Brown Widows, snakes, alligators, etc...) there wouldn't be any caches. People that go geocaching should recognize that this is not Disney World, and their safety is neither implied nor guaranteed. If I see something that I think someone should be concerned about, I'll note it in my log. Other than that, you're on your own. Your safety is your responsibility.

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Maybe move the cache slightly, probably knock the wasp nest down if I could do so without being stung (they can build a new one elsewhere), definitely mention the wasps in my cache log.

 

I once logged a NM due to wasps which I now think was a mistake (cache and wasps were on the same road sign). I would not log a NM or NA for wasps unless there was a major problem, like the nest being on the cache.

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But, they are a part of nature and deserve to have their nest just the same.

 

So you don't kill ticks either?

 

Sure I do!

 

When the tick attacks, I kill it.

When the wasp attacks, I kill it.

 

If I can avoid the ticks and wasps, I avoid them.

 

We don't have much of a problem with ticks or wasps here in Arizona, but we do have scorpions, Black Widows, and rattlesnakes. The wasps we do have are called Tarantula Hawks, they nest underground, and are up to three inches long.

 

Oh, and Africanized bees.

 

If the OP is/was allergic themselves, I could see the possibility of self defense, but attempting to 'sanitize' the outdoors for others is not realistic.

 

Killing even one wasp to facilitate a cache is just plain wrong.

If a bear decides to den-up near a cache hide, do we kill the bear?

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If I see something that I think someone should be concerned about, I'll note it in my log. Other than that, you're on your own. Your safety is your responsibility.

Although I think that is a justifiable and defensible stance to take your safety as your responsibility, I would not see a poisonous snake next to a trail and fail to warn either my friend, or complete stranger of the danger. And I know that you are not saying such either. But your stance seems to be far more in that direction than mine. Ticks are one thing. Poisonous snakes, wasps and other such creatures, if they survive their initial contact with me and thereby still pose a risk to others, I will do my best to minimize those risks, and be damned what the CO thinks of what happened to the cache. But at the same time, try to minimize the grief caused to the CO.

 

Have some consideration for your fellow players. This isn't climbing Everest above the Death Zone. And if it comes to that, you guys are on your own.

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So natural things were found in nature huh??? Imagine that. :huh:

And did the natural thing. Killed them. There was an underground nest of Japanese hornets along a very popular trail in the mountains near my house. Someone noticed a nest right beside the trail and had put up a sign. Night trip sounded in order. 2L drink bottle filled with kerosene, with 6" length of hose on nozzle. Insert tube, walk away.

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If I see something that I think someone should be concerned about, I'll note it in my log. Other than that, you're on your own. Your safety is your responsibility.

Although I think that is a justifiable and defensible stance to take your safety as your responsibility, I would not see a poisonous snake next to a trail and fail to warn either my friend, or complete stranger of the danger. And I know that you are not saying such either. But your stance seems to be far more in that direction than mine. Ticks are one thing. Poisonous snakes, wasps and other such creatures, if they survive their initial contact with me and thereby still pose a risk to others, I will do my best to minimize those risks, and be damned what the CO thinks of what happened to the cache. But at the same time, try to minimize the grief caused to the CO.

 

Have some consideration for your fellow players. This isn't climbing Everest above the Death Zone. And if it comes to that, you guys are on your own.

 

If you did a search on this forum, you'd note that this isn't the first trip down this trail. This has been discussed in various forms several times. I do have consideration for not only my fellow geocachers, but others in general. But if someone thinks they can enter into any outdoor activity with absolute impunity and disregard for the potential dangers that exist, then I have no sympathy for them. It's as simple as opening your eyes and looking at what you're about to do. Would you blindly stick your hand in a dark hole where you cache? Where I normally cache, that's an invitation to have a bad day. Personally I don't see a wasp nest near a cache as a generally dangerous situation. If someone is allergic to bees or wasps and engages in outdoor activities, I would think they would already know how to protect themselves. Most of the people I know that have this problem carry an epi-pen with them at all times when out. I stand by what I said. People need to realize what they might encounter, and it is their responsibility to act accordingly.

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So natural things were found in nature huh??? Imagine that. :huh:

 

LOL. I posted that on a cache of mine where many finders complained about ants near one of my caches and wanted ME to do something about it. I reminded future finders that the cache is outdoors. Case closed.

 

OH, LORDY!!

 

NOT THE ANTS!!!

 

You didn't immediately go out and spread some AMDRO at the site?

How irresponsible. :mad:

 

:lol:

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We read logs before a trip out and many on one hide said they were getting stung while attempting.

- So CJ came prepared, just in case...

 

ea98eff3-3e5c-48e4-b430-5a82d29544ea.jpg

 

THIS!!!!!

 

I got bit by a snake in Kansas (the one near the George Washington Carver Marker on Rt. 96, though I think cache is archived (don't see it there now).

 

Luckily...it didn't bit into the skin...oh, and it turned out not to be poisonous (didn't know at the time...so I stripped down to my underwear because I had to check my leg for bite marks). For a non-venomous snake, there was two fang marks and a bit of "spit" left on them.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Beeler,+KS&hl=en&ll=38.450727,-100.199613&spn=0.000627,0.00142&sll=38.453589,-100.285263&sspn=0.080255,0.181789&t=k&gl=us&hnear=Beeler,+Eden,+Ness,+Kansas&z=20

Edited by TheWeatherWarrior
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But, they are a part of nature and deserve to have their nest just the same.

 

So you don't kill ticks either?

 

Sure I do!

 

When the tick attacks, I kill it.

When the wasp attacks, I kill it.

 

If I can avoid the ticks and wasps, I avoid them.

 

We don't have much of a problem with ticks or wasps here in Arizona, but we do have scorpions, Black Widows, and rattlesnakes. The wasps we do have are called Tarantula Hawks, they nest underground, and are up to three inches long.

 

Oh, and Africanized bees.

 

If the OP is/was allergic themselves, I could see the possibility of self defense, but attempting to 'sanitize' the outdoors for others is not realistic.

 

Killing even one wasp to facilitate a cache is just plain wrong.

If a bear decides to den-up near a cache hide, do we kill the bear?

 

The original poster has a knack for starting topics with just enough information to get people riled up, yet omits just enough to keep us from forming a valid opinion. The answer of course depends on the location. A wasps nest 50 miles out in the boonies is an entirely different situation than one 10' from a city park playground.

 

To answer your bear question, is the cache in front of Walmart. If so, killing the bear might be the last option. Relocating it would be the first option, which is what the OP did with the wasps nest.

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about Altering a cache position

we have a local talk about this topic at the moment.

 

Lets vote :

1. NEWER move a cache no matter what you see, it is ONLY a CO's job, repport the issue

2. ONLY move a cache if your feel you can make it more safe

3. move a cache just a little bit up and away from dog-pee area

4. move a cache if your GPS say its zero is another place

5. move a cache if you find a better hiding spot

6. move a cache higher up, so the next finder will have more fun

7. add alot of extra sticks and leaves so it is better hidden

8. I can do what ever I like, I just need to repport what I did.

9. The only thing I alter is the added signature in the log.

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... But when it comes to choosing between the safety, prhaps even life, of another person the nest is coming down. ... This was very ner a train station. ...

Hmm, trains kill people too (I expect more people per year than wasps) so did you blow up the station?

 

Funny thing is that I have never had a train fly down from the sky and sting me.

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So natural things were found in nature huh??? Imagine that. :huh:

 

LOL. I posted that on a cache of mine where many finders complained about ants near one of my caches and wanted ME to do something about it. I reminded future finders that the cache is outdoors. Case closed.

 

My log on a recent cache.

 

"Ants! Big ones with teeth!"

 

As it was, I only killed the one that actually bit me, mostly out of spite.

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So natural things were found in nature huh??? Imagine that. :huh:

 

LOL. I posted that on a cache of mine where many finders complained about ants near one of my caches and wanted ME to do something about it. I reminded future finders that the cache is outdoors. Case closed.

 

OH, LORDY!!

 

NOT THE ANTS!!!

 

You didn't immediately go out and spread some AMDRO at the site?

How irresponsible. :mad:

 

:lol:

 

Another one of my ant related logs...

 

"This is where things got weird. I picked my way through all of the new growth which is covered with pointy things and made it to GZ where there are a lot of dead limbs on the ground to grab your boot laces and trip you, which is what they did. Down I went, then I came right back up covered in ants and a scratch on my arm. Well, I guess I wasn't bleeding enough to satisfy the ants because they started biting the scratch. Mind you, my boot lace is still stuck to the dead limb, which I think I drug about ten feet back through the sticker bushes.

 

The rest is too horrible to describe, but a lot of ants lost their lives today..., and I didn't get arrested..."

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But, they are a part of nature and deserve to have their nest just the same.

 

So you don't kill ticks either?

 

You can kill them? I thought they were indestructible?

Red hot needle. Between two rocks. Into the camp fire. Throw them off the cliff, which doesn't kill them but gets them away from me, and I guess the cache.

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... But when it comes to choosing between the safety, prhaps even life, of another person the nest is coming down. ... This was very ner a train station. ...

Hmm, trains kill people too (I expect more people per year than wasps) so did you blow up the station?

 

Funny thing is that I have never had a train fly down from the sky and sting me.

Nope, but a train driver here was trying to stay on schedule and went through a curve faster than he should have. To make it worse, this curve was actually where the train went under, or very near, the edge of a building. People died.

 

I get the point some people are making. My point is that as a CO, if I got such a message, I would at the very least immediately modify my description so that it started with a simple warning that a wasp nest has been reported at the cache, that I will remove it when I get a chance and that the cache was now in an apparently safe, and even easier to find, spot. Where's the harm?

 

Some of you need to watch Monty Python's skit about "Spring Surprise chocolates". When you pop a chocolate in your mouth you don't expect steel bolts to pop out of your cheeks.

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...Bee/wasp stings can kill some people....Thoughts on this?

People with allergies are aware of the dangers that accompany them. Every cache on the planet is dangerous from the right angle.

 

Moving it away from the nest. Probably not a bad idea. I've literally stuck my hand on a much more active wasp nest feeling around for the a cache in a tank at a park. I didn't get stuck but I can tell you patting down a mass of wasps is an interesting feeling.

 

Thanks to the meteor strike in Russia I've seen some infographics on odds of dying.

 

Your Chances of Dying (Boring Version)

 

Interesting Version

According to that last one the odds of dying while walking to your caches by the time you find your 55th thousand cache...50%. I don't know the assumptions behind the infographic but be careful out there.

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Since I'm a stickler for putting caches back as found, I would have done my best to get the cache back exactly or as close to the original location as possible and taken note of my action for the CO. Then I would have pulled out my camera and taken some sweet nature pics of the wasps to post in my log on the cache page.

 

I definitely would not have knocked the nest down.I once placed a cache at night and it was clear. People found it during the day and complained of ants. I disabled it and replaced it with a new container in a different location away from the ants. I then saw one of the cachers at an event and he asked me why I moved it. I said 'the ants'. He said I should have just gotten a can of Raid and annihilated them :o . I thought the idea proposterous! and this was in the city... no way I would do something like this out in nature.

 

I definitely don't think it is up to me to decide wether caches should or should not be allowed based on what I feel is dangerous or not. It's up to the CO to place their cache and the finder to assume the risk and know their limits. Definitely no note to reviewer from me.

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I got a log on one of my caches ....

 

"Great hide. Also BIG spider! I may or may not have super powers now." :lol:

 

Bugs and things things tend to be around caches outdoors.

I've got an old fake birdhouse cache that I archived because there is a family of mice living in it. Every time I go to it, they are there... Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter. I can't bring myself to remove it and destroy the best home they've ever found! It's the only cache I've ever archived and then never removed! :blink: Took a bit of effort to build it too.....

 

Let the cache owner know if you feel there's a hazard, and then get on with caching.

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According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about ten people die from unintentional inhalation of Dihydrogen Monoxide every day in the United States. Yet cache owners continue to put caches near sources of this dangerous chemical.

 

Water you talking about? :laughing:

Like that one. Gotta' cache named Dihydrogen Monoxide.

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Since I'm a stickler for putting caches back as found, I would have done my best to get the cache back exactly or as close to the original location as possible and taken note of my action for the CO. Then I would have pulled out my camera and taken some sweet nature pics of the wasps to post in my log on the cache page.

 

I definitely would not have knocked the nest down.I once placed a cache at night and it was clear. People found it during the day and complained of ants. I disabled it and replaced it with a new container in a different location away from the ants. I then saw one of the cachers at an event and he asked me why I moved it. I said 'the ants'. He said I should have just gotten a can of Raid and annihilated them :o . I thought the idea proposterous! and this was in the city... no way I would do something like this out in nature.

 

I definitely don't think it is up to me to decide wether caches should or should not be allowed based on what I feel is dangerous or not. It's up to the CO to place their cache and the finder to assume the risk and know their limits. Definitely no note to reviewer from me.

I had no hesitations at all with knocking down the nest. The lone wasp can go build another one. I'm with the guy who strapped a can of spray to his backpack. If you want pet wasps, knock yourself out. Any insect or pest in my house that can't easily be caught and released is dead meat. Had a problem with some bats under the rain gutter. Notice my use of the past tense there. Wasp nests got a similar treatment. As for the nest in question, train personnel would have eliminated the problem if I had informed them. Wood roaches which manage to get through the backdoor have a nice, baited hotel as they enter.

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According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about ten people die from unintentional inhalation of Dihydrogen Monoxide every day in the United States. Yet cache owners continue to put caches near sources of this dangerous chemical.

 

Water you talking about? :laughing:

Like that one. Gotta' cache named Dihydrogen Monoxide.

 

I convinced my entire family to sign a petition to ban the stuff. Boy did they feel silly.

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According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about ten people die from unintentional inhalation of Dihydrogen Monoxide every day in the United States. Yet cache owners continue to put caches near sources of this dangerous chemical.

Water you talking about? :laughing:

Like that one. Gotta' cache named Dihydrogen Monoxide.

I convinced my entire family to sign a petition to ban the stuff. Boy did they feel silly.

Probably not as silly as the city officials of Aliso Viejo, California. :laughing:

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I was unfortunate enough to get some of that nasty stuff on me during my last geocaching excursion. I was very concerned as it seemed to be coming from the sky as well as being on the ground where I was walking. I hurried home and took a shower to make sure I wasn't at risk of becoming ill. You've really got to watch it any more. It's hard to be safe all the time.

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