Jump to content

Groundspeak is all about the $$$?


DCWarrior
Followers 6

Recommended Posts

I've never really understood the thought some people have or the idea other caching sites put out there about geocaching.com being for the "rich people" (as someone put it in a local caching forum). Opencaching puts it out there that they are more about the community and don't charge and that sort of thing. I've seen people grumble about how Groundspeak is all about making money. I just don't get the issues they try to make.

 

Anyone can use geocaching.com for free and participate extensively. Yes, there are premium memberships available, but they are not necessary to play. Yes, the extremely helpful, easy to use app costs money, but you don't have to use that either to get the full fun effect of caching, use a GPS (go figure). All these extra things are, just that, EXTRAS. Buy and use them or don't.

 

So, if you are one of these people I'm describing, can you explain to me better what your issues are? Just an honest question because I don't understand the problem. Or maybe others can give a guess at what these people are thinking.

Link to comment

Maybe you need to ask the players in your local forum that think like this. I'd say most players on this forum support Groundspeak and don't care about the money Groundspeak makes. Why do you care anyway? There's always going to be complainers in life. Let them complain and don't worry about it. This isn't something you can change.

Link to comment

I always found the idea absurd that a website owned by a multi billion dollar company is "about the community" and and a website owned by geocachers is all about making money. I can't imagine anyone begrudging the owners of this site making a living out of it.

 

OX is all about the community? Someone would have to be quite gullible to swallow that line.

 

Besides, I can't remember ever running into Garmin's CEO at a geocaching event and good luck trying to get him into a dunk tank at one. I'd be willing to bet that the only thing he knows about geocaching is that he sells a lot of hand held units because of it.

 

I agree with the above post, you'll have to ask those people why they feel that way.

Edited by briansnat
Link to comment

I know that a business showing a profit is somehow not the "in" thing these days for some people. However, we as a country used to hold in high esteem those that could take an idea in their basement and turn it into a profitable business. All too sad that so many now demand that those profits be distributed to everybody else.

 

Nothing wrong with showing a healthy bottom line - especially when the CEO can still sit down with a cacher and enjoy a Gatorade and some casual chat in a museum café.

Link to comment

OX was definitely created for business reasons. That was one of their initial mistakes: not enough involvement with actual cachers. They now have some people working on OX that I think are sincere about being "for the community".

 

Groundspeak has certainly accumulated many sour grapes over the years. Recent ones of note would be Challenges (i.e. Not Virtuals), the buggy nature of the smartphone apps, poor support for Wherigo and benchmarking and Waymarking, the maps change, and a perception of being slow about new site features.

Link to comment

I always found the idea absurd that a website owned by a multi billion dollar company is "about the community" and and a website owned by geocachers is all about making money. I can't imagine anyone begrudging the owners of this site making a living out of it.

 

OX is all about the community? Someone would have to be quite gullible to swallow that line.

 

Besides, I can't remember ever running into Garmin's CEO at a geocaching event and good luck trying to get him into a dunk tank at one. I'd be willing to bet that the only thing he knows about geocaching is that he sells a lot of hand held units because of it.

 

I agree with the above post, you'll have to ask those people why they feel that way.

 

I'm a well known member of the site that you and the OP speak of, and I don't buy into that BS because I know better as a veteran member of the site.

I support this site with my membership fees for the benefits here as a PM.

So, OX is all about the community? Someone would have to be quite gullible to swallow that line I do agree. It's all about the numbers there, and who you are here. Enough said. :ph34r:

Link to comment

I've never really understood the thought some people have or the idea other caching sites put out there about geocaching.com being for the "rich people" (as someone put it in a local caching forum). Opencaching puts it out there that they are more about the community and don't charge and that sort of thing. I've seen people grumble about how Groundspeak is all about making money. I just don't get the issues they try to make.

 

Anyone can use geocaching.com for free and participate extensively. Yes, there are premium memberships available, but they are not necessary to play. Yes, the extremely helpful, easy to use app costs money, but you don't have to use that either to get the full fun effect of caching, use a GPS (go figure). All these extra things are, just that, EXTRAS. Buy and use them or don't.

 

So, if you are one of these people I'm describing, can you explain to me better what your issues are? Just an honest question because I don't understand the problem. Or maybe others can give a guess at what these people are thinking.

We live in the DC area dude. You have to remove yourself from the DC high income equation and see how the world looks when it is hard to make ends meet. Sure there are free things, but remember that when you want to participate and others are all talking about this cache and that cache, you go look for them...but oh...you aren't allowed to find that cache because it is a premium only cache. There are these other 'great' caches, but oh, you need a $400 gps or smart phone (that'll cost you $500+ per year in fees, etc.).

 

The whole thing isn't that the there is no access, but that Groundspeak favors those with the means to play the more enjoyable parts of the game. It wouldn't be so offending except that Grounspeak originally said they would NOT do that. That it would ALWAYS be fully open! Granted, the current behavior has been around longer than the years it begged and pleaded for free help. But it is still wrong in my opinion that the site tries to make believe it is about "community" when members of that community are treated differently based on their economic input. No one is faulting good business and profits, but when those at the top are making seven figure incomes annually (or more) and it was all on the backs of a lot of contributors that were lead to believe it would be a NON-PROFIT set-up...that is a completely different avenue.

 

Each person has to make their own decisions, but to NOT understand the perspective that GS has in fact built a game for those with means is just ignorance (a harsh word, but not going to candy coat it). I myself had to take a break from it because it was just getting to be too annoying. I'm giving Geocaching a second look and hoping a fresh perspective will mean I can return to the game with fresh eyes, but there is still a lot of concern. I also have to remember that there are very few people like me that have been around since nearly the beginning (which speaks volumes in itself).

Edited by TheWeatherWarrior
Link to comment

If one thinks that multi-billion dollar company is running their own site just for the community and not to promote their own products, well I got a bridge to sell you.

 

Well, seeing where the OP is from (and it's right in his username), and the fact he referenced a "local forum", I think people might be taking the wrong Opencaching ball, and running with it. And my first thought, like the 4DirtyDogs is, why don't you ask these people? I'm sure they don't bite.

 

OK, I'm not stroking my ego, I'm one of the big names in alternative Geocaching websites. I'm still the no. 1 cache finder in the world at an unnamed U.S. based alternative GPS gaming website. Yes, I'm their Alamogul. :laughing: Fact is most of the very small, but long established users of alternative websites despise Garmin, and their train-wreck of a website. As many have said, they started off from day one alienating their target audience.

 

Basically, seeing as this post is long enough already, all the alternatives, with the exception of Garmin, are programmed and run by volunteers, and are totally free. It would only be natural for them to compare that to a company with 70 full-time employees, and annual revenues in the Millions. Does that answer your question? Because I'm risking bannation for posting it. :P

 

EDIT: By the way, it looks like the OP has already found the person (as opposed to persons) who made the "rich people" comment about Geocaching.com :ph34r:

Edited by Mr.Yuck
Link to comment

I know that a business showing a profit is somehow not the "in" thing these days for some people. However, we as a country used to hold in high esteem those that could take an idea in their basement and turn it into a profitable business. All too sad that so many now demand that those profits be distributed to everybody else.

 

Nothing wrong with showing a healthy bottom line - especially when the CEO can still sit down with a cacher and enjoy a Gatorade and some casual chat in a museum café.

 

like.

Link to comment

I've never really understood the thought some people have or the idea other caching sites put out there about geocaching.com being for the "rich people" (as someone put it in a local caching forum). Opencaching puts it out there that they are more about the community and don't charge and that sort of thing. I've seen people grumble about how Groundspeak is all about making money. I just don't get the issues they try to make.

 

Anyone can use geocaching.com for free and participate extensively. Yes, there are premium memberships available, but they are not necessary to play. Yes, the extremely helpful, easy to use app costs money, but you don't have to use that either to get the full fun effect of caching, use a GPS (go figure). All these extra things are, just that, EXTRAS. Buy and use them or don't.

 

So, if you are one of these people I'm describing, can you explain to me better what your issues are? Just an honest question because I don't understand the problem. Or maybe others can give a guess at what these people are thinking.

We live in the DC area dude. You have to remove yourself from the DC high income equation and see how the world looks when it is hard to make ends meet. Sure there are free things, but remember that when you want to participate and others are all talking about this cache and that cache, you go look for them...but oh...you aren't allowed to find that cache because it is a premium only cache. There are these other 'great' caches, but oh, you need a $400 gps or smart phone (that'll cost you $500+ per year in fees, etc.).

 

The whole thing isn't that the there is no access, but that Groundspeak favors those with the means to play the more enjoyable parts of the game. It wouldn't be so offending except that Grounspeak originally said they would NOT do that. That it would ALWAYS be fully open! Granted, the current behavior has been around longer than the years it begged and pleaded for free help. But it is still wrong in my opinion that the site tries to make believe it is about "community" when members of that community are treated differently based on their economic input. No one is faulting good business and profits, but when those at the top are making seven figure incomes annually (or more) and it was all on the backs of a lot of contributors that were lead to believe it would be a NON-PROFIT set-up...that is a completely different avenue.

 

Each person has to make their own decisions, but to NOT understand the perspective that GS has in fact built a game for those with means is just ignorance (a harsh word, but not going to candy coat it). I myself had to take a break from it because it was just getting to be too annoying. I'm giving Geocaching a second look and hoping a fresh perspective will mean I can return to the game with fresh eyes, but there is still a lot of concern. I also have to remember that there are very few people like me that have been around since nearly the beginning (which speaks volumes in itself).

 

Anyone instilled with an entitlement and equal outcome attitude can always go back to letterboxing.

Link to comment
It wouldn't be so offending except that Grounspeak originally said they would NOT do that. That it would ALWAYS be fully open!

To be clear, Groundspeak, nor it's founders, never said that. What Jeremy said was "traditional geocaching itself will never be a pay to play service."

 

You can come to this website today, and still do the same things for free, that you could do when the site was first created. You can still find caches without paying a cent. There has even been much improvement in the site for non-paying users.

 

However, if you have the means, sure, you can pay a modest fee and get a bunch of perks that may make your experience better. But that doesn't mean that you have to.

Link to comment

I've never really understood the thought some people have or the idea other caching sites put out there about geocaching.com being for the "rich people" (as someone put it in a local caching forum). Opencaching puts it out there that they are more about the community and don't charge and that sort of thing. I've seen people grumble about how Groundspeak is all about making money. I just don't get the issues they try to make.

 

Anyone can use geocaching.com for free and participate extensively. Yes, there are premium memberships available, but they are not necessary to play. Yes, the extremely helpful, easy to use app costs money, but you don't have to use that either to get the full fun effect of caching, use a GPS (go figure). All these extra things are, just that, EXTRAS. Buy and use them or don't.

 

So, if you are one of these people I'm describing, can you explain to me better what your issues are? Just an honest question because I don't understand the problem. Or maybe others can give a guess at what these people are thinking.

We live in the DC area dude. You have to remove yourself from the DC high income equation and see how the world looks when it is hard to make ends meet. Sure there are free things, but remember that when you want to participate and others are all talking about this cache and that cache, you go look for them...but oh...you aren't allowed to find that cache because it is a premium only cache. There are these other 'great' caches, but oh, you need a $400 gps or smart phone (that'll cost you $500+ per year in fees, etc.).

 

The whole thing isn't that the there is no access, but that Groundspeak favors those with the means to play the more enjoyable parts of the game. It wouldn't be so offending except that Grounspeak originally said they would NOT do that. That it would ALWAYS be fully open! Granted, the current behavior has been around longer than the years it begged and pleaded for free help. But it is still wrong in my opinion that the site tries to make believe it is about "community" when members of that community are treated differently based on their economic input. No one is faulting good business and profits, but when those at the top are making seven figure incomes annually (or more) and it was all on the backs of a lot of contributors that were lead to believe it would be a NON-PROFIT set-up...that is a completely different avenue.

 

Each person has to make their own decisions, but to NOT understand the perspective that GS has in fact built a game for those with means is just ignorance (a harsh word, but not going to candy coat it). I myself had to take a break from it because it was just getting to be too annoying. I'm giving Geocaching a second look and hoping a fresh perspective will mean I can return to the game with fresh eyes, but there is still a lot of concern. I also have to remember that there are very few people like me that have been around since nearly the beginning (which speaks volumes in itself).

Sheez with that type of attitude why come back if you feel this much seperation between players. Nothing has changed, just more Premium Members and PM caches. I think if you supported GS(with PM) since nearly the begining that would speak volume in itself. What your doing is just complaining. :rolleyes:

Edited by the4dirtydogs
Link to comment

 

Although it appears you posted the correct link, the link only takes you (or me, at least), to an index page, and you have to scroll down to the first enty under "Blog", 02.02.13 interview with Bryan Roth of Groundspeak, then of course you have to play the interview, as all the text on that page is in German.

Link to comment

if you are one of these people I'm describing, can you explain to me better what your issues are? Just an honest question because I don't understand the problem. Or maybe others can give a guess at what these people are thinking.

 

I'm not one of these people you mentioned but I'm from the community where one can sometimes hear such rumours (geocaching.com is a "pay-and-play" service, etc.) IMHO the reasons are quite simple.

 

1) People don't have experience of playing geocaching outside their local community, they just repeat what they've been told long ago.

2) They have put much efforts in the development of their community and wish to see more positive contrast between their work and geocaching.com. "They take money and we don't!"

3) Some people are just jealous. ("You say their site has some nice functionality? Right, they can do this because they invested megabucks in the development".

 

I recently had a conversation with one geocacher who looked deeply insulted by Groundspeak. The reason was that he didn't know English and geocaching.com lacked Russian interface. The guy was absolutely convinced that since there were some membership fees Groundspeak was a corporation which must provide comfortable service (including translations to different languages, Russian too). I tried to explain that it is a community related issue: if we need Russian translation we should take care about it (become volunteers and do this job) but I doubt that he understood me. I think that he still believes that Groundspeak is poor in its business since he's not satisfied.

 

Anyway, I would say none of geocaching websites is free of charge. It's not just about whether one has free access to cache coordinates or not. Geocaching is a database of geocaches, all made by cache owners who spent much efforts on their publication and maintenance. If we summarized these efforts we could see that they were rather expensive. It's especially clear in areas like Russia where we lack geocaches to find and have to work hard on placing new ones. For myself geocaching has always been mostly an investment of time and money. So I'm not pleased when someone says: "Our game must stay free of charge, not like geocaching.com!"

 

Luckily, it's not really a huge problem in many cases: when people start playing geocaching they usually forget about "capitalists" and simply enjoy the game :)

Link to comment

I dare say that the average cacher is middle class or better. In order to particpate in this activity you must:

 

Be able to afford a GPS or smart phone (and app) neither of which is inexpensive!

 

Own a computer to download caches or a smart phone.

 

Be able to afford to drive to and from caching.

 

Premium membership is a small cost compared to the above.

Link to comment

 

I dare say that the average cacher is middle class or better. In order to particpate in this activity you must:

 

Be able to afford a GPS or smart phone (and app) neither of which is inexpensive!

 

 

pretty sure I just saw in the news that they are going to start giving out Androids this year under the Obama phone plan

 

Obama crony wins contract to give phones to jobless

Edited by roundnround we go
Link to comment

 

I dare say that the average cacher is middle class or better. In order to particpate in this activity you must:

 

Be able to afford a GPS or smart phone (and app) neither of which is inexpensive!

 

 

pretty sure I just saw in the news that they are going to start giving out Androids this year under the Obama phone plan

 

Obama crony wins contract to give phones to jobless

 

Funny (in a strange way) story. Not soon after we first started caching, I was intrigued when a local cache made it onto this forum due to opinions regarding it's dangerous neighborhood location. I drove down one morning and started poking around. It was located between a strip joint and a crack house. After 15 minutes or so, I was startled by a noise coming from behind the air conditioning unit on the roof of the strip joint. Soon, a guy appears, jumps off the roof onto a dumpster and then to the ground. He wipes his eyes, yawns, and pulls out his i-phone. Dude wasn't just waking from a binge, he showed signs of living a rough life for awhile. Smart phones have become necessities in the minds of many.

Link to comment

I dare say that the average cacher is middle class or better. In order to particpate in this activity you must:

 

Average? Maybe.

 

Be able to afford a GPS or smart phone (and app) neither of which is inexpensive!

 

Both GPSs and smartphones can be had for under $100. Yes, that can be a lot to some people, but it is not unattainable for just about anyone. I've met pre-teens that have saved their money to be able to get in on entry level devices.

 

Own a computer to download caches or a smart phone.

 

There are lots of free access points available. I know people that get their cache info at the library. Yes, it is cumbersome, but it can be done. Having your own PC is a darn handy convenience, but it certainly is not a requirement.

 

Be able to afford to drive to and from caching.

 

Buses, bicycles, walking, friends, cache buddies. There are alternatives.

 

Premium membership is a small cost compared to the above.

 

True, but even that is not required to play the game.

Link to comment
It wouldn't be so offending except that Grounspeak originally said they would NOT do that. That it would ALWAYS be fully open!

To be clear, Groundspeak, nor it's founders, never said that. What Jeremy said was "traditional geocaching itself will never be a pay to play service."

 

You can come to this website today, and still do the same things for free, that you could do when the site was first created. You can still find caches without paying a cent. There has even been much improvement in the site for non-paying users.

 

However, if you have the means, sure, you can pay a modest fee and get a bunch of perks that may make your experience better. But that doesn't mean that you have to.

WRONG...Premium caches (which ARE traditional caches) cannot be obtained by any non-premium member. If it was a matter of PMs having restricted access to Earth, Wherigo, etc. different. But Premium Only caches VIOLATE the original message.

 

Also, that single statement is often referred to, but in many various posts, articles, and on the site (back in the day) it was put forth that this was going to be a Non-profit (or Not-for-Profit, I forget the technical difference) venture.

Link to comment
It wouldn't be so offending except that Grounspeak originally said they would NOT do that. That it would ALWAYS be fully open!

To be clear, Groundspeak, nor it's founders, never said that. What Jeremy said was "traditional geocaching itself will never be a pay to play service."

 

You can come to this website today, and still do the same things for free, that you could do when the site was first created. You can still find caches without paying a cent. There has even been much improvement in the site for non-paying users.

 

However, if you have the means, sure, you can pay a modest fee and get a bunch of perks that may make your experience better. But that doesn't mean that you have to.

WRONG...Premium caches (which ARE traditional caches) cannot be obtained by any non-premium member. If it was a matter of PMs having restricted access to Earth, Wherigo, etc. different. But Premium Only caches VIOLATE the original message.

 

Also, that single statement is often referred to, but in many various posts, articles, and on the site (back in the day) it was put forth that this was going to be a Non-profit (or Not-for-Profit, I forget the technical difference) venture.

 

I've been around as long as you and I have never seen a "not for profit" statement like you are referring to. I look around using the wayback machine website and see no such statements either. I think the quoted statement above stands as is - I view premium caches as not quite traditional caching but rather as a premium perk.

Link to comment

WRONG...Premium caches (which ARE traditional caches) cannot be obtained by any non-premium member. If it was a matter of PMs having restricted access to Earth, Wherigo, etc. different. But Premium Only caches VIOLATE the original message.

Nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache.

 

Compare the total number of caches on the day before premium-only caches were introduced in 2002 versus the number of caches today which are not premium-only. There is a lot more offered today, all for free.

 

Also, that single statement is often referred to, but in many various posts, articles, and on the site (back in the day) it was put forth that this was going to be a Non-profit (or Not-for-Profit, I forget the technical difference) venture.

Please provide examples of the posts, articles and website text. I don't recall anything of the sort, and I've been here nearly as long as you. I've been a forum moderator for nearly ten years and would have read most or all discussions about the website's profit margin, such as this one.

Link to comment

Nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache.

I cannot access nor log Premium only caches. What part of "premium only" do you not understand?

I am still a basic, and have found several PMOC caches from the small amount of data provided free on the website.

Including one FTF on a multi. Granted not being able to read the cache page prevents me from obtaining data on puzzles and some puzzle type multis, and a few EC etc. where you need that info. Nothing stops me from logging the caches directly from the site, no backdoors required,,,just click and log it.

 

I'm sure that a simple request to the PM involved would produce a copy of the cache page or at least the pertinent parts in most cases. Cachers are not out to stop cachers, but many think that it provides a modicum of security.

 

That may work to some degree but I don't find it a serious impediment.

 

The point being that there is a bit of extra work to do so, but no restriction other than seeing the page itself.

 

Doug 7rxc

Link to comment

Nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache.

I (or other non PM members) cannot access nor log Premium only caches. What part of "premium only" do you not understand? Would expect a moderator to understand this.

What part of "nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache" do you not understand? Would expect an English speaker to understand this.

Link to comment

Nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache.

I (or other non PM members) cannot access nor log Premium only caches. What part of "premium only" do you not understand? Would expect a moderator to understand this.

What part of "nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache" do you not understand? Would expect an English speaker to understand this.

Why is that then when I go to the cache page for PMs I get only an ad to sign up as a premium member. Others have indicated this as well. Why would there be Premium Caches if everyone could access them.
Link to comment

Nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache.

I (or other non PM members) cannot access nor log Premium only caches. What part of "premium only" do you not understand? Would expect a moderator to understand this.

What part of "nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache" do you not understand? Would expect an English speaker to understand this.

Why is that then when I go to the cache page for PMs I get only an ad to sign up as a premium member. Others have indicated this as well. Why would there be Premium Caches if everyone could access them.

 

The only think that PM only status prevents basic members from doing is seeing the cache description and it's co-ordinates, but if a basic member finds the cache with a buddy or by happy accident then they can log a PM cache, and there are several ways to do it which are generally well known and a quick search of the forums will reveal them, or you could just ask.

Edited by MartyBartfast
Link to comment

Nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache.

I (or other non PM members) cannot access nor log Premium only caches. What part of "premium only" do you not understand? Would expect a moderator to understand this.

What part of "nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache" do you not understand? Would expect an English speaker to understand this.

Why is that then when I go to the cache page for PMs I get only an ad to sign up as a premium member. Others have indicated this as well. Why would there be Premium Caches if everyone could access them.

 

The only think that PM only status prevents basic members from doing is seeing the cache description and it's co-ordinates, but if a basic member finds the cache with a buddy or by happy accident then they can log a PM cache, and there are several ways to do it which are generally well known and a quick search of the forums will reveal them, or you could just ask.

Yes, there are more than one way for a basic member to log a PMO listing. My kids do it all the time. :laughing:

Link to comment

Nothing prevents a regular member from logging a premium-only cache.

I cannot access nor log Premium only caches. What part of "premium only" do you not understand?

Yes you can if you know the way to do it.

If there is a hack or something, not interested. You can't use the site, app, etc. to log or view PM caches as a non-PM

 

Could you call this a hack? It's pretty simple URL manipulation, I don't know if I would go so far as call it a hack. It is well documented that this back door has intentionally been left open. The fact that it exists is not well-documented. Pretty much only anyone who ever read the forums in great detail knows about it. Which eliminates about 80% of Geocachers. :lol:

Link to comment

I've never really understood the thought some people have or the idea other caching sites put out there about geocaching.com being for the "rich people" (as someone put it in a local caching forum).

Who cares if they make money? How much do you have to pay to Groundspeak in order to participate in GeoCaching? Nothing, you say? Nothing at all? Well, if you don't have to pay anything, why would you even begin to complain if the company found a way to make money from providing such a free service?

Link to comment

There's no doubt that Jeremy and others want to make money. From the interview with Elias above, you can tell that making big bucks wasn't the first thing on their mind. However, and i think in most cases, with success comes that bit of greed. They're going to push some things out there that may make them more money.

 

On that note,, i am recently noticing the different ads that come up on cache pages (while signed in as a premium member). The geocaching related ads didn't bother me too much but now i'm getting larger ads that have nothing to do with caching.

 

The latest was this: We don't want younger men, we want older men like you. Something to that affect. It also included 4 or 5 pictures of women showing alot of cleavage. While this in itself doesn't bother me as a whole :P , it's something i don't expect to see on geocaching.com.

 

I guess there could be something else going on that is causing this, like a bug on my computer or something. I don't think so myself and if not, then yes, Groundspeak is pushing this which indicates to me that they are trying another tactic to make still more money.

Link to comment

I've never really understood the thought some people have or the idea other caching sites put out there about geocaching.com being for the "rich people" (as someone put it in a local caching forum). Opencaching puts it out there that they are more about the community and don't charge and that sort of thing. I've seen people grumble about how Groundspeak is all about making money. I just don't get the issues they try to make.

 

Anyone can use geocaching.com for free and participate extensively. Yes, there are premium memberships available, but they are not necessary to play. Yes, the extremely helpful, easy to use app costs money, but you don't have to use that either to get the full fun effect of caching, use a GPS (go figure). All these extra things are, just that, EXTRAS. Buy and use them or don't.

 

So, if you are one of these people I'm describing, can you explain to me better what your issues are? Just an honest question because I don't understand the problem. Or maybe others can give a guess at what these people are thinking.

 

IMO the biggest reason I kind of feel it's all about the money is the lack of knowledge that reviewers seem to have. I have on numerous occasions had to direct reviewers on there lack of knowledge when it comes to public vs. private property and laws regarding things such as river rights and abandoned personal property on public land (all involving cache placement). It made me wonder what Groundspeak did with all that money, and was one of many reasons I quit paying for membership. I don't mind a decent profit, but it would be nice to see some money is being invested in things outside of site updates and useless games (i.e. challenges).

Edited by toadfrommars
Link to comment

Reviewers are unpaid volunteers.

 

According to Garmin's annual report, they have revenue of just under $3 Billion dollars, and it IS all about the money. This site only cares about the cache flow.

 

Agreed.

 

Maybe they should be paid, or at least taught/given the resources to know the laws of the area they are reviewing. They can approve a dangerous cache on private land but they think is public. I'm not blaming the reviewer necessarily, I'm blaming Groundspeak for not educating them. It seems money is thrown in the wrong areas. I would hate to be the cacher who got caught on private property in the boonies trying to explain he's trying to find something placed by someone else and was approved by yet someone else who lived potentially hundreds of miles away, both of whom assured that the cache was on an easement that in reality doesn't exist.

 

BTW, we own several hundred acres, with zero caches on any of it, and we are less than hospitable to tresspassers.

Link to comment

However, we as a country used to hold in high esteem those that could take an idea in their basement and turn it into a profitable business. All too sad that so many now demand that those profits be distributed to everybody else.

 

Actually, this forum is an international one so probably "we as a country ..." (I guess you have the US in mind) might not be the best possible formulation.

I do not expect Groundspeak to distribute its profits and I'm not a fan of the Garmin site either (actually, I do not use it at all). I do have sympathy however for all open source projects in geocaching and in my opinion, the main contribution to geocaching comes from the community, or more precisely from the cache hiders and not from whichever platform.

As there are no reasonable international alternatives to gc.com, I have to live with the fact that they turned geocaching into a business, but it does not mean that this is my preferred way. One can earn money with a lot of things and I'm not in favour of all these options.

 

- especially when the CEO can still sit down with a cacher and enjoy a Gatorade and some casual chat in a museum café.

 

To be honest, I do not care about that aspect at all and on the list of geocachers I once would like to meet in person, the CEOs of Groundspeak do not even appear.

 

 

Cezanne

Link to comment

There's no doubt that Jeremy and others want to make money. From the interview with Elias above, you can tell that making big bucks wasn't the first thing on their mind. However, and i think in most cases, with success comes that bit of greed. They're going to push some things out there that may make them more money.

 

On that note,, i am recently noticing the different ads that come up on cache pages (while signed in as a premium member). The geocaching related ads didn't bother me too much but now i'm getting larger ads that have nothing to do with caching.

 

The latest was this: We don't want younger men, we want older men like you. Something to that affect. It also included 4 or 5 pictures of women showing alot of cleavage. While this in itself doesn't bother me as a whole :P , it's something i don't expect to see on geocaching.com.

 

I guess there could be something else going on that is causing this, like a bug on my computer or something. I don't think so myself and if not, then yes, Groundspeak is pushing this which indicates to me that they are trying another tactic to make still more money.

 

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but I have noticed ads that are "local" to me within just the past week or so. Obviously, this is done by IP address, and I've seen "local" ads directed at me on distant websites all over the internets for years, just not here until last week. No cleavage yet, but believe me, I'll be looking for that. :ph34r:

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 6
×
×
  • Create New...