"Team" Finds?

[+TeeDeeKay]

If my caching partner and I decide to split up and log a series of caches from both ends and meet in the middle, and we sign a team name on the log sheets, can we then each log a 'found it' for each other's finds? We don't have a team name on geocaching.com, just our individual accounts. What if the series in question was just published? Can we co-FTF a series like this?

[+Murazor]

That would not be fair IMHO...

[+St.Matthew]

I hear that's the hot new way to cheat around here. A group does a powertrail, splits up. Everyone writes everyone else's name on the logs. I guess what makes what you are asking different is that you are under the same account (if I understood you properly).

[+MartyBartfast]

Doesn't seem right to me.

[+secretagentbill]

A lot of these questions can be answered by stopping and simply asking yourself, "Did I actually find the cache?" No, you found half and your partner found half.

[+S&SLaird]

IMHO if you don't find the cache, you didn't find the cache so why log a find. I recently logged a Virtual but do to some confusion I had not found what I was suppose to. The CO got a little upset with me over it but after some clarification he edited the cache page and I changed my log to DNF. I then returned and did it right and entered a new Found Log. I don't understand why people log caches they didn't really find. I have seen more than one log that didn't have a name in it for someone who had logged the cache. It is up to the CO to go out and verify finds not up to me so in the end I really don't care how others play the game. Everyone is always saying it isn't about the numbers yet the arguements always seem to be about the numbers.

 

As far as different team members logging their list for everyone and each member only doing part of the list....I really don't get that. What is the point of working together if your not together. I enjoy caching with a group sometimes but I go to all the caches. I may not be the one that makes the find but we all see it and we all know where it was before heading off to the next one.

 

We enjoy getting out and Geocaching but when we are at home we enjoy looking at the numbers and all the goofy statistics in GSAK. We like planning a day partially based on improving our GSAK badges. They aren't really important but for us it just adds another level of fun that we get to enjoy when we aren't on the trail. It isn't about the numbers; but they are fun.

[Mr.Yuck]

If my caching partner and I decide to split up and log a series of caches from both ends and meet in the middle, and we sign a team name on the log sheets, can we then each log a 'found it' for each other's finds? We don't have a team name on geocaching.com, just our individual accounts. What if the series in question was just published? Can we co-FTF a series like this?

 

I vote for cheesy and don't do it. There's nothing wrong with playing this game for the numbers, and some do. There's really not that many of them, they just have a high profile, because they have high numbers. I see you have a rather high number in under one year of Geocaching. I would advise not getting caught up in the numbers too much, to the point of considering doing something cheesy to increase them even more. Just my opinion, and who knows, someone with 10,000 finds could come along and rebut me in the next post.

[+redsox_mark]

I agree it is "cheesy". It is allowed, as that team's name is signed in each log. But why do it?

 

I see a distinction between this and the more usual way a team works. There have been threads on that; e.g. a husband and wife team. Sometimes they cache together; sometimes just one of them will find a cache; either way they log with their team name. That's fine. But purposely dividing caches up to increase speed of finds doesn't seem right to me. But nothing is stopping you doing it if you want to do it.

[+The A-Team]

I vote for cheesy and don't do it.

I don't even see it as being cheesy, but rather just plain wrong. Logging a find when you admittedly didn't even visit the cache site? That's called a bogus log and would be deleted if it happened on my cache.

 

Edit to add: And for those that will inevitably say that the find is valid because their name is written in the log, I say that if the cacher admits that they didn't visit the cache, that negates the signature. I would fully expect that Groundspeak would side with the CO in a case like this and uphold the deletion. The following two official statements from Groundspeak make it pretty clear how geocaching works:

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement

I remain surprised at how complicated some people think this issue is. It's not complicated.

1. Coordinates are posted.
   
2. You go here.
   

Edited February 11, 2013 by The A-Team

[+niraD]

It sounds like a variation of the "leapfrogging" technique sometimes used on numbers runs, which is really just a variation on armchair caching.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I'm not a fan of leapfrogging, though I must admit I have done a little. It was the same trail though, not separate trails.

 

Leapfrogging when doing FTFs seems very poor sportsmanship.

[4wheelin_fool]

So who exactly would you be impressing with the FTFs? The same people who would have reservations on how you found it, and think it was cheesy?

[+baloo&bd]

If my caching partner and I decide to split up and log a series of caches from both ends and meet in the middle, and we sign a team name on the log sheets, can we then each log a 'found it' for each other's finds? We don't have a team name on geocaching.com, just our individual accounts. What if the series in question was just published? Can we co-FTF a series like this?

 

Answer to both your questions, even though they look like three, is YES. It would not be cheating or unfair. there is no competition or prize for the one with the most finds.

 

Having said that, openly admitting it would solicit comment about it being unfair and cheating and a CO with a differing opinion may delete. It would be a very gray area that GS may or may not support if your name appears in the log.

 

You didn't ask, but were it me, I would not do it. I also haven't converted DNF to finds because a CO has offered or anything like that. It has nothing to do with having higher morals or integrity, it is a personal preference I choose to do. While I do think what you propose is "lame" or "cheesy", I am not the one that matters. Your numbers mean nothing to anyone but you.

[+the4dirtydogs]

I really don't see anything wrong with you and your partner going different ways to log all the caches, even though you didnt visit all the caches. This is just a game to go out and have some fun in the outdoors, you don't win anything in the end and your total find count means absolutely nothing. I say go for it but just don't mention that you two split up to find the caches in the logs. That way you don't have to listen to people telling you that you're playing wrong.

Edited February 11, 2013 by the4dirtydogs

[+Legochugglers]

I would' t do it. It would always nag away at the back of my mind that I was recorded as finding a cache that I had never visited.

What would you write on your on-line log to describe your experience at GZ? The whole situation becomes a complete sham.

[+CanadianRockies]

I wouldn't do it. If it was my cache, then I'd delete the "Found it" logs of anyone who admitted doing it. And I think Groundspeak would support my deletions.

[+MartyBartfast]

Some respondents seem to think you're logging online as a team, but I don't think you are. If I've understood this right it goes something like this:

 

Your GS ID is Fred

Your partners GS ID is Wilma

 

on your trip you both write "The Flintstones" in the logs, and then both Fred and Wilma log all caches as found online.

 

I don't think its right for you to do that. It would be a different case if you were logging online as "The Flintstones" but I don't think that's what you're talking about here.

[+The A-Team]

Some respondents seem to think you're logging online as a team, but I don't think you are. If I've understood this right it goes something like this:

 

Your GS ID is Fred

Your partners GS ID is Wilma

 

on your trip you both write "The Flintstones" in the logs, and then both Fred and Wilma log all caches as found online.

Yep, I'm pretty sure that's what they're describing:

We don't have a team name on geocaching.com, just our individual accounts.

If it was a single shared account, I'd still call it cheesy and lame, but I wouldn't be deleting any logs over it.

But with separate accounts? No better than armchair logging and would be deleted without hesitation.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I think I should team up with this guy. Would save alot of time.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=e35cc3ef-6ea4-4ccc-a67f-0e1537af57f1&wid=c54a1faf-e07c-4b9d-aa8a-e69cdd9845ad&ds=2

[+JKMonkey]

Doesn't seem ethically right but I know of plenty of geoocachers who do do it. IMO if you can live with the guilt then go for it.

[+fbingha]

If you log under a team account and the log contains the team account name/sticker then c'est la vie.

 

if you are logging finds that you didn't actually go to under your own account, then well I would describe that as sad.

[AZcachemeister]

Unless you are present at the cache location, having someone else sign the log for you (and then claiming a find) is wrong.

 

I can't imagine how this could ever even be something to consider.

[+briansnat]

You can do it but why would you want to?

[+DCWarrior]

I think I should team up with this guy. Would save alot of time.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=e35cc3ef-6ea4-4ccc-a67f-0e1537af57f1&wid=c54a1faf-e07c-4b9d-aa8a-e69cdd9845ad&ds=2

 

Wowzer!!! I looked at this guys profile just now. WOWZER!!! That's all I can think of to say.

[+Mudfrog]

Unless you are present at the cache location, having someone else sign the log for you (and then claiming a find) is wrong.

 

I can't imagine how this could ever even be something to consider.

 

Was going to stay out of this thread but i had to add my "+1" when i saw this reply. Sums up my thoughts exactly!

[+redsox_mark]

I was one who misread about the team account. Still my answer is the same; you can do it; though many (including myself) wouldn't do it.

If you and your friend find them all together and sign as a team name for the day that is fine and common. (It is especially common with larger groups, just to save signing separate names). As long as you don't explain what you have done in the log, no owner will have reason to delete it; e.g. if you say "Out with cacher Y, we logged our finds today as XY). But if you log on a cache "Out with cacher Y; we split them up and I didn't actually visit this cache" then you may find it gets deleted.

 

The same would go if you used your own caching names (and each of you signed both names in the half of the caches you found).

[+TeeDeeKay]

Thanks for all the replies, everybody. First off I'll make it clear that we have and had absolutely no intention of logging each other's finds. I thought it best to phrase my query in the first person because I wasn't sure what the reaction would be. You see, a few days ago, a new power trail containing 60 hides was published in our area. Now, for us it's very much not about the numbers and I think that power trails in general are kind of cheesy. A find every tenth of a mile can be fun but can get boring and tedious for us and seems like an almost artificial number inflation. There's a popular trail a state over from us that allows for over 200 finds in one run, and we have no intention of logging it. Why would we want to blow up our "best day" stat to something that we'll never reach again? It's currently 47, and yes, it was a power trail. A really fun one with lots of different types of hides.

 

We came in the back way, which was closer to our current position. We entered at #52, with a turn we didn't take leading to the tail end of the series. We discovered that #52 had been signed by "Team Jeep" so we started driving, passing caches in an attempt to catch up and hopefully share in some FTFs. After getting to the middle without encountering anyone, I jumped out and found a blank log at #29. We signed in and started back the way we came. On our 12th find, "Team Jeep" caught up to us. Half of the team, that is. When he told us that he and another cacher we know decided to start at both ends and "double team" the series, I didn't quite understand what he meant. They had turned down the road to log the end first, which is how we missed them. He had grabbed from 42-60, so we turned around and he followed us to #28, which is where the other half of the "team" caught up to us.

 

There was another friend of ours who go to the start of the series first and managed to log the first 10 before "Team Jeep" caught up to her. Apparently, this half of the "team" drove by without stopping, an action that screams "I'm not sharing", causing our friend to give up the hunt. In the end, "Team Jeep" got 38 out of 60 of the First To Finds between the two of them. Now, here's the kicker, which I'm sure you saw coming. These two cachers (who use individual accounts, NOT a team account) both logged all 38 FTFs. Each of them logged almost half of these without visiting the cache. How they can see this as legitimate is beyond me, and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.

 

These people did their level-best to make sure that they got *every* FTF on the trail, and there were a lot. We are not hogs, and in fact we were planning to stop at 21 finds to make an even 100 FTFs in our caching career. Unfortunately, this was not to be. I'm actually happy that we didn't make our goal because having a milestone like this on a power trail seems ultra-cheesy! I guess what I'm really asking (and the only question that matters) is would what they pulled be considered legitimate by Groundspeak? Thanks for everyone's input.

Edited February 13, 2013 by TeeDeeKay

[+CanadianRockies]

I guess what I'm really asking (and the only question that matters) is would what they pulled be considered legitimate by Groundspeak?

Groundspeak doesn't really take a position on the FTF aspect of geocaching, so don't turn to them to determine the legitimacy of this type of practice.

[+TeeDeeKay]

Groundspeak doesn't really take a position on the FTF aspect of geocaching, so don't turn to them to determine the legitimacy of this type of practice.

 

I'm really speaking to the legitimacy of the find in general, without having visited the cache. It's just the added FTF aspect that makes it sting. Otherwise, who cares how these people play their game?

Edited February 12, 2013 by TeeDeeKay

[+Semper Questio]

If my caching partner and I decide to split up and log a series of caches from both ends and meet in the middle, and we sign a team name on the log sheets, can we then each log a 'found it' for each other's finds? We don't have a team name on geocaching.com, just our individual accounts. What if the series in question was just published? Can we co-FTF a series like this?

 

I would not do that, but it's your conscience.

[Mr.Yuck]

Groundspeak doesn't really take a position on the FTF aspect of geocaching, so don't turn to them to determine the legitimacy of this type of practice.

I'm really speaking to the legitimacy of the find in general, without having visited the cache.

 

Not many in their right mind would argue that is a find for the team member who was not present. I believe this all boils down to the cache owner, and if they accept this zaniness as a find. If the cache owner was to delete the finds of each member for the caches they did not visit, and the ensuing drama was reported to Groundspeak, there is no doubt in my mind they would side with the cache owner, and the deletions would stand.

 

If the cache owner says and does nothing, that pretty much implies endorsement. And I don't feel Groundspeak would ever get involved in a "this guy logged this cache as a find that he never visited, delete his log" situation. They are pretty much hands-off, unless they get an "my log was deleted by the cache owner" dramagram in their general contact email inbox.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Mr.Yuck

[+CanadianRockies]

I'm really speaking to the legitimacy of the find in general, without having visited the cache.

That is something that Groundspeak has a position on. According to Groundspeak lackey MissJenn:

 

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement

And that wasn't just her personal opinion. She followed up with this:

 

I am officially speaking on behalf of Groundspeak.

[+redsox_mark]

I guess what I'm really asking (and the only question that matters) is would what they pulled be considered legitimate by Groundspeak? Thanks for everyone's input.

 

Well, I don't know; but unless the owner starts deleting logs or there is a complaint they won't get involved.

 

On the surface and from the logs, it all seems fine. 3 cachers out caching a power trail as a team, and they sign Team Jeep. You can't tell from the logs who was present at which cache.

 

And while most here find it disagreeable, it seems common to do some sort of "leap frog" on such trails, where not every team member visits every cache, but they all claim the finds.

[+the4dirtydogs]

Thanks for all the replies, everybody. First off I'll make it clear that we have and had absolutely no intention of logging each other's finds. I thought it best to phrase my query in the first person because I wasn't sure what the reaction would be. You see, a few days ago, a new power trail containing 60 hides was published in our area. Now, for us it's very much not about the numbers and I think that power trails in general are kind of cheesy. A find every tenth of a mile can be fun but can get boring and tedious for us and seems like an almost artificial number inflation. There's a popular trail a state over from us that allows for over 200 finds in one run, and we have no intention of logging it. Why would we want to blow up our "best day" stat to something that we'll never reach again? It's currently 47, and yes, it was a power trail. A really fun one with lots of different types of hides.

 

We came in the back way, which was closer to our current position. We entered at #52, with a turn we didn't take leading to the tail end of the series. We discovered that #52 had been signed by "Team Jeep" so we started driving, passing caches in an attempt to catch up and hopefully share in some FTFs. After getting to the middle without encountering anyone, I jumped out and found a blank log at #29. We signed in and started back the way we came. On our 12th find, "Team Jeep" caught up to us. Half of the team, that is. When he told us that he and another cacher we know decided to start at both ends and "double team" the series, I didn't quite understand what he meant. They had turned down the road to log the end first, which is how we missed them. He had grabbed from 42-60, so we turned around and he followed us to #28, which is where the other half of the "team" caught up to us.

 

There was another friend of ours who go to the start of the series first and managed to log the first 10 before "Team Jeep" caught up to her. Apparently, this half of the "team" drove by without stopping, an action that screams "I'm not sharing", causing our friend to give up the hunt. In the end, "Team Jeep" got 38 out of 60 of the First To Finds between the two of them. Now, here's the kicker, which I'm sure you saw coming. These two cachers (who use individual accounts, NOT a team account) both logged all 38 FTFs. Each of them logged almost half of these without visiting the cache. How they can see this as legitimate is beyond me, and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.

 

These people did their level-best to make sure that they got *every* FTF on the trail, and there were a lot. I can't get over the selfishness. We are not hogs, and in fact we were planning to stop at 21 finds to make an even 100 FTFs in our caching career. Unfortunately, this was not to be. I'm actually happy that we didn't make our goal because having a milestone like this on a power trail seems ultra-cheesy! I guess what I'm really asking (and the only question that matters) is would what they pulled be considered legitimate by Groundspeak? Thanks for everyone's input.

I bet if you were able to snag a bunch of FTFs from this "TEAM" we wouldn't be talking about this. Don't worry about how other people play and you won't have anything to complain about. This is just sour grapes because you got beat to some FTFs. To me players who complain about the FTF game is ultra-cheesy. The thing about GS deleting these logs is why would they want to get in the middle of this drama. You cant prove which cacher went to which cache, their names are on the log. I'm still blown away how some adults act in this game. Let it go and you will be much happier. There are better things to worry about then some silly game where you sign your nickname on a piece of paper in a container stuffed in some bush.

Edited February 12, 2013 by the4dirtydogs

[+kunarion]

There are better things to worry about then some silly game where you other people sign your nickname on a piece of paper in a container stuffed in some bush.

Fixed it for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+MuseOfIdiots]

I am TeeDeeKay's caching partner. To the last post, we were able to log 15 FTF's on that trail, and we were both at everyone of them. I knew this to be a bad idea. People, even after TeeDeeKay explained that we were not the "Team" in question, still think it is our intention to do so. It is not. Every cache that we both have logged, we both were at the cache at the same time, or in a couple cases, found the cache independently! We have found so many in a year because we make an effort to get out there every day and make finds. As for logging each other's finds: WE DO NOT DO THIS!!! TDK went on a trip to North Carolina and Georgia, he did not sign my name and I did not log those caches. And the same goes for the caches I had found here while he was there. Our stats are almost exact except for those days while the other was on vacation. We are not the bad guys here. I do not want to be associated with this kind of activities.

 

We won't even do the Delaware Commission Trail because we think it inflates numbers and really has no use otherwise. I would not even want to attempt the 1 in Arizona. I mean 1,000 carbon copied finds? Where is the fun in that?

 

I feel that this whole "Team" business is only hurting the cachers themselves. I don't care that they are out logging caches that they never found. The issue in this case, was that they robbed cachers that take this sport somewhat seriously and enjoy a little friendly competition. Quite a few times, caches haved appeared near each of our homes and 1 of us couldn't make it. because we find every single FTF together, TDK and I just don't go for them. Now if they are still available when we both can get 1, then we go for it.

 

Again, we have no intentions on doing what was posted at the top. TeeDeeKay was just trying to gauge what others felt about the issue. So, please stop attacking what we do. We are fond of the rules and moral obligations to our beloved sport. That's all.

[+Straight-Cache-Homey]

After seeing how some other threads have ended up and the impact some small groups people can have on this game... I'd stay out of it if I were you. You could end up causing WAY more drama than it's worth. Just my two cents.

[4wheelin_fool]

It was cheesy that they did that, but it's also cheesy to call them out in the forum for doing so.

 

Now lets have a group hug.

 

[+the4dirtydogs]

There are better things to worry about then some silly game where you other people sign your nickname on a piece of paper in a container stuffed in some bush.

Fixed it for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+wimseyguy]

You can do it but why would you want to?

 

^This^

Just who exactly are you competing with?

 

[+the4dirtydogs]

I am TeeDeeKay's caching partner. To the last post, we were able to log 15 FTF's on that trail, and we were both at everyone of them. I knew this to be a bad idea. People, even after TeeDeeKay explained that we were not the "Team" in question, still think it is our intention to do so. It is not. Every cache that we both have logged, we both were at the cache at the same time, or in a couple cases, found the cache independently! We have found so many in a year because we make an effort to get out there every day and make finds. As for logging each other's finds: WE DO NOT DO THIS!!! TDK went on a trip to North Carolina and Georgia, he did not sign my name and I did not log those caches. And the same goes for the caches I had found here while he was there. Our stats are almost exact except for those days while the other was on vacation. We are not the bad guys here. I do not want to be associated with this kind of activities.

 

We won't even do the Delaware Commission Trail because we think it inflates numbers and really has no use otherwise. I would not even want to attempt the 1 in Arizona. I mean 1,000 carbon copied finds? Where is the fun in that?

 

I feel that this whole "Team" business is only hurting the cachers themselves. I don't care that they are out logging caches that they never found. The issue in this case, was that they robbed cachers that take this sport somewhat seriously and enjoy a little friendly competition. Quite a few times, caches haved appeared near each of our homes and 1 of us couldn't make it. because we find every single FTF together, TDK and I just don't go for them. Now if they are still available when we both can get 1, then we go for it.

 

Again, we have no intentions on doing what was posted at the top. TeeDeeKay was just trying to gauge what others felt about the issue. So, please stop attacking what we do. We are fond of the rules and moral obligations to our beloved sport. That's all.

I would like to know exactly how this whole "TEAM" thing is hurting the cachers. If they are out having fun then so be it. I find it rather funny that you think these other cachers robbed other players of FTFs . That is just too dang funny. Robbed for an FTF, I'll have to remember that. If you can't handle the HEAT get out of the kitchen.

[+CanadianRockies]

The issue in this case, was that they robbed cachers that take this sport somewhat seriously and enjoy a little friendly competition.

No, I just don't see that. In each instance where you we beaten in the FTF competition, there was at least one person who found the cache before you did. So, unless you were in a competition for second-to-find, I really don't think this is the issue.

 

Now, if you're suggesting the two team members didn't really "find" all the caches they both claim to have found, then I agree with you.

[Mr.Yuck]

It was cheesy that they did that, but it's also cheesy to call them out in the forum for doing so.

 

Now lets have a group hug.

 

 

Yeah, you just have to let this go. Muse and TDK, feel free to refer to them as Team Cheese instead of Team Jeep privately to each other for the duration of your Geocaching careers.

 

Man, I couldn't even get my two cats to hug like that, let alone one of them do it wit a dog.

[+baloo&bd]

It was cheesy that they did that, but it's also cheesy to call them out in the forum for doing so.

 

Now lets have a group hug.

 

I gotta agree. Calling someone out in the forum is bad form, in fact, I am kind of surprised a moderator did not jump in or simply lock the thread.

[+MuseOfIdiots]

I had no intention of calling anyone out. Not my thing. I did feel it necessary to start defending myself. This was a huge mistake and wish it was never started. That's all. Never posted before, won't again. Trolls lose. I don't care what they did. That's it. I don't want it brought up to me. If you run into me don't say anything about it. I would not have called anyone out. If you see TeeDeeKay, go ahead, talk away, but I don't want anything to do with it. He was speaking for himself. I just thought it necessary to clear my name in this. Also, I really don't see the harm in just asking opinions on the subject like Mike did. I find it more disconcerting the attacks on those who really have done nothing wrong. IE: TeeDeeKay and myself. Obviously, other cachers feel it was more wrong to point it out, rather than the actual act itself. Just to reiterate the point. Three cachers with separate accounts logged caches independently as 1 name and they did not go to all the caches and then at the end logged them as found on the digital log. You are right, they didn't rob anyone in this way. I was more saying that they robbed themselves of the joy of finding every cache or at least being there when found. So, peace out. Forums, I bid you ado!

[+simpjkee]

If my caching partner and I decide to split up and log a series of caches from both ends and meet in the middle, and we sign a team name on the log sheets, can we then each log a 'found it' for each other's finds? We don't have a team name on geocaching.com, just our individual accounts. What if the series in question was just published? Can we co-FTF a series like this?

Sounds like you are logging 'found it' logs on caches that you've never been to. How you play is your business, but that's not how I play geocaching. I would support the cache owners right to delete your log on the ones you didn't find.

 

edit: For the record, I see you are just saying this in first person, but it is not actually you.

Edited February 13, 2013 by simpjkee

[+simpjkee]

Threads like this and countless other threads on this forum remind me to be greatful that I never had anything more than a casual interest in the FTF game. Its just silly.

[+cache_test_dummies]

I thought it best to phrase my query in the first person because I wasn't sure what the reaction would be.

Now you know what kind of reaction to expect.

 

Please forgive the confusion from those of us who may have misunderstood.

 

But going forward, please consider that it might not have been such a good idea to take a first-person approach in your opening post ("If my caching partner and I decide to split up and log a series of caches from both ends and meet in the middle, and we sign a team name on the log sheets, can we then each log a 'found it' for each other's finds?"), especially while clearly caching with a partner, and extra-especially considering your partner's use of phrases like "Mike and I have plans on how to divvy up the rest of the caches" in a Found It! log on the series in question.

 

Silly me! I really assumed you were talking about you when you said I.

[+TeeDeeKay]

He was referring to spliting them up between days, not between each other.

[AZcachemeister]

People do stupid things so they can claim an FTF.

 

The FTF is generally a meaningless achievement, but not always. (FTF on a powertrail cache? Big freakin' whoop.)

 

Anyone who 'zooms past' another cacher so they can get more FTFs has serious social issues. Extensive counseling and behavior modification via shock therapy may be needed.